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Are Elementalists supposed to be "Mages"?


greedywholesome.9081

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Condi renegade, to me, feels pretty magey.  Drop Charr spirits on your enemies and yes, you’re using a short bow, but you’re shooting through magic portals and launching waves or areas of fire. Plus, you can channel a purple creature of torment and radiate out bad juju, though that does put you back in melee to be effective.

Staff mirage fits a ranged enchanter quality, too.

As much as I loved d/d Ele in the early years of the game, the profession has always felt more like a magical fighter than a mage.

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The devs of gw2 got ride of the entire idea of mana for mages. In doing so it completely ruined the feel of a magic casting class. There is no difference between a warrior using a skill and a magic caster like ele or mesmer. 

They tried to put a kind of mana system into the game with rev. But in the end it doesnt fit the class since its a mele user. 

I am not happy with the kind of class development that happened. And what is happening.

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4 hours ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

The devs of gw2 got ride of the entire idea of mana for mages. In doing so it completely ruined the feel of a magic casting class. There is no difference between a warrior using a skill and a magic caster like ele or mesmer. 

They tried to put a kind of mana system into the game with rev. But in the end it doesnt fit the class since its a mele user. 

I am not happy with the kind of class development that happened. And what is happening.

A fireball isn't a fireball if you don't have a resource bar to deplete? This makes zero sense.  I'd prefer they focus on matters of substance.

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On 1/21/2022 at 12:56 PM, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

The devs of gw2 got ride of the entire idea of mana for mages. In doing so it completely ruined the feel of a magic casting class. There is no difference between a warrior using a skill and a magic caster like ele or mesmer. 

They tried to put a kind of mana system into the game with rev. But in the end it doesnt fit the class since its a mele user. 

I am not happy with the kind of class development that happened. And what is happening.

To each their own. GW2's elementalist is the best "mage" implementation I've seen in an mmo. I normally find conventional mage archetypes boring including GW1's ele and prefer either melee or healer. The upcoming catalyst spec will have an energy resource though.   

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55 minutes ago, Zephyrus.9680 said:

To each their own. GW2's elementalist is the best "mage" implementation I've seen in an mmo. I normally find conventional mage archetypes boring including GW1's ele and prefer either melee or healer. The upcoming catalyst spec will have an energy resource though.   

Agreed I adore gw2s design of the elementalist, I mean I agree they could expand it with more options and balance wise there are things. 

But overall it's alot of fun. 

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25 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Agreed I adore gw2s design of the elementalist, I mean I agree they could expand it with more options and balance wise there are things. 

But overall it's alot of fun. 

Core was such a good ideal but as we moved away from combo and when they added in quickness as a boon and alacrity as a boon it realty pushed ele back. It was made worst when its elite spec utility being self or melee ranged something that one would think is a "mage." Its shocking that they did not give catalyst wells at least. Ele use to be mage like with combos game play that just not the game any longer.

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12 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

Core was such a good ideal but as we moved away from combo and when they added in quickness as a boon and alacrity as a boon it realty pushed ele back. It was made worst when its elite spec utility being self or melee ranged something that one would think is a "mage." Its shocking that they did not give catalyst wells at least. Ele use to be mage like with combos game play that just not the game any longer.

Tbh weaver is one of the best concepts I've seen in mmorpgs. It has downfalls meta wise. But it doesn't change how good the gameplay is 

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5 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Tbh weaver is one of the best concepts I've seen in mmorpgs. It has downfalls meta wise. But it doesn't change how good the gameplay is 

You never played mages with real elemental magic! At least at the start of gw2 fields had elemental magic for combos shame they are way to week now.

Weaver has too many copy past duel skills and a lot of pure power creep in both dmg and def. If catalyses is going to be the bruiser of the eles it would need to some how get more barrier then weaver has. It also has "melee" utility aggressive and def anet could of at least given weaver way to enchase it attks so at least it could have some "mage" like ranged.

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7 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

You never played mages with real elemental magic! At least at the start of gw2 fields had elemental magic for combos shame they are way to week now.

Weaver has too many copy past duel skills and a lot of pure power creep in both dmg and def. If catalyses is going to be the bruiser of the eles it would need to some how get more barrier then weaver has. It also has "melee" utility aggressive and def anet could of at least given weaver way to enchase it attks so at least it could have some "mage" like ranged.

I've played multiple games with mages. 

World of Warcraft. 

Aion

Guild Wars 1

Everquest 1

Ultima Online

Rift

Tera

Blade and soul

Runes of magic

RuneScape

Everquest 2

Anarchy Online

Wildstar

Final Fantasy XIV 

aswell as guild wars 2 and yes I've played elementalist in core game. 

And I just disagree, generic casting is boring. Ranged combat is pretty bland. And mage + sword is the best aesthetic in a fantasy world. 

Hence why red mage was my favourite in FFXIV 

Edited by Daddy.8125
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3 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

I've played multiple games with mages. 

World of Warcraft. 

Aion

Guild Wars 1

Everquest 1

Ultima Online

Rift

Tera

Blade and soul

Runes of magic

RuneScape

Everquest 2

Anarchy Online

Wildstar

Final Fantasy XIV 

aswell as guild wars 2 and yes I've played elementalist in core game. 

And I just disagree, generic casting is boring. Ranged combat is pretty bland. And mage + sword is the best aesthetic in a fantasy world. 

Hence why red mage was my favourite in FFXIV 

Rdm is a whm/blm with a sword in ff11 it was never its own thing  is that different in ff14? Weaver is not a rdm it is a power creeped core ele. At best its duel skills will never cover both an support / aggressive balance its nearly a pure dmg class but with higher def effects making it even less of an "mage" like class then say core ele and tempest and soon to be catalyses.

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1 hour ago, Jski.6180 said:

Rdm is a whm/blm with a sword in ff11 it was never its own thing  is that different in ff14? Weaver is not a rdm it is a power creeped core ele. At best its duel skills will never cover both an support / aggressive balance its nearly a pure dmg class but with higher def effects making it even less of an "mage" like class then say core ele and tempest and soon to be catalyses.

I've never understood your position on this.  Your idea of what constitutes a "mage" is so oddly specific that it doesn't fit this game at all.  It doesn't need to be an old man with a stick and a mana bar to be "magic-based".  That's just your particular hangup.  If setting your own kitten skin on fire isn't magical I don't know what is!

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1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Tbh weaver is one of the best concepts I've seen in mmorpgs. It has downfalls meta wise. But it doesn't change how good the gameplay is 

Agreed. Weaver is a work of art.  It has its issues as a result of the design, but it feels amazing to play.  I really like the way the tradeoff for what you gain feels impactful and really changes the way the class plays.  I think most elite specs struggle to do that and end up feeling like core+ (see Tempest).

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33 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I've never understood your position on this.  Your idea of what constitutes a "mage" is so oddly specific that it doesn't fit this game at all.  It doesn't need to be an old man with a stick and a mana bar to be "magic-based".  That's just your particular hangup.  If setting your own kitten skin on fire isn't magical I don't know what is!

If an element attk dose not hold that elements effect it lacks "magic" in my view. So  combo system is letting you use the element of that skill to combo into an effect. Sadly the combos are very week compared to just one button press effects so its fallen out of use.

The oldest system of magic is number of use mana is just an expansion of that ideal. At the same time mages are known for being able to boots these effects. GW2 is mostly just cd base so a mages in gw2 would be able to effect there cast times and cd (we would see this though boons quickness / alacrity though just simply faster casting speed and lower cd would work as well). At least the old ele has means of giving it self buff during channel effects sadly these where taken out of the game.

Added point i want to make on the elements effect they need to be stronger then what other classes put off as they are magic in a pure form more then say modified magic by use of pets lengedes etc.. to cast spells. Kind of eles boons base they maybe but they should be stronger then say of other classes reg, protection, might and fury sadly its never have been that way for support or even self (applied effects realty dont cut it). A kind of ele rocks should be stronger then say that being thrown by a war or the water from an ele should be more effective then say a ranger.

Edited by Jski.6180
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1 hour ago, Jski.6180 said:

If an element attk dose not hold that elements effect it lacks "magic" in my view.

So like..... Flamestrike? That's basically causing your opponent to burst into flames while doing damage. It also does burning damage, your element effect. Add bonus - it's a ranged ability, no sword here folks. Doesn't that skill fit your definition of magic?

 

1 hour ago, Jski.6180 said:

At the same time mages are known for being able to boots these effects. GW2 is mostly just cd base so a mages in gw2 would be able to effect there cast times and cd (we would see this though boons quickness / alacrity though just simply faster casting speed and lower cd would work as well). At least the old ele has means of giving it self buff during channel effects sadly these where taken out of the game.

So are you discrediting defensive skills like Arcane Shield and Armor of Earth, both which keep the Elementalist safe while casting so they can complete their casting? Wouldn't that be in the same vein as quickness / alacrity? It may not be speeding up the casting animation, but it is still working to allow the Ele to finish their spell. Does it only have to be about spell speed in order to qualify for "magic"?

 

1 hour ago, Jski.6180 said:

Added point i want to make on the elements effect they need to be stronger then what other classes put off as they are magic in a pure form more then say modified magic by use of pets lengedes etc.. to cast spells. Kind of eles boons base they maybe but they should be stronger then say of other classes reg, protection, might and fury sadly its never have been that way for support or even self (applied effects realty dont cut it). A kind of ele rocks should be stronger then say that being thrown by a war or the water from an ele should be more effective then say a ranger.

What makes the Elementalist magic any more or less pure than a Mesmer or Ranger? Aren't they channeling magic to create these elemental forces? If anything, Elementalist has the closest thing to pure magic in the game with Arcane, which by your own definition would work because Arcane skills already always crit, making them arguably the "strongest" spells in the game (lore wise, anyway).

As for elemental purity, that is definitely one way you can look at it. But you can also look at it like this:

The Warrior has a single way to hurl a rock because they are a Warrior and do it only one way. The Elementalist, as a master of the elements, has multiple ways to throw rocks. Some stronger that the Warrior, some weaker, and some with added effects They have a whole lot more access to these than other classes because their magic focuses on the elements.. So, yes, some of their Water spells will be stronger than the Rangers, some won't be because they have access to a wide range as opposed to the Rangers limited spell pool.

 

I get that you have a very strict idea of what is magic and that is fine, but even under your own suggestions the Elementlaist checks some of the boxes of what makes a mage a mage.

Edited by fuzzyp.6295
added clarity about spell purity!
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2 minutes ago, fuzzyp.6295 said:

So like..... Flamestrike? That's basically causing your opponent to burst into flames while doing damage. It also does burning damage, your element effect. Add bonus - it's a ranged ability, no sword here folks. Doesn't that skill fit your definition of magic?

 

So are you discrediting defensive skills like Arcane Shield and Armor of Earth, both which keep the Elementalist safe while casting so they can complete their casting? Wouldn't that be in the same vein as quickness / alacrity? It may not be speeding up the casting animation, but it is still working to allow the Ele to finish their spell. Does it only have to be about spell speed in order to qualify for "magic"?

 

What makes the Elementalist magic any more or less pure than a Mesmer or Ranger? Aren't they channeling magic to create these elemental forces? If anything, Elementalist has the closest thing to pure magic in the game with Arcane, which by your own definition would work because Arcane skills already always crit, making them arguably the "strongest" spells in the game (lore wise, anyway).

 

I get that you have a very strict idea of what is magic and that is fine, but even under your own suggestions the Elementlaist checks some of the boxes of what makes a mage a mage.

It works but not all of ele skills in say fire do burn. Aoe dmg alone is not fire its just aoe dmg.

Sadly i would not call arcane shield or armor of earth "magic" in that they are very physical effects maybe if the arcane shield blocks all and fire back base off of the number of effect blocked maybe if armor of earth had a real effect on the armor of earth part of the skill  not just an on apply effect. The "magic would be not the block or the stab / protection but the pay off of using the skill right or added effects for having use that skill effect.

Ele mostly weaver should have the ability to boots its ability to cast spells in a given moment what we could call magic control and not just spaming effect but a real timing of skills.

Ele is the MAGES of gw2 and its the mages of the primal elements of the world every thing else is made form the primal elements or they would not be the primal elements. So ele should have far stronger of that given element effects but only that elements effect where other classes mix and match the different magics. Arcane skills use to be unblockable and for what ever reason they crit but are also high condi aimed skills because reason?

Ppl forget that every thing in the game is using magic on some level that is fine but it water downs classes that only use magic. There needs to be a real differences between say a fire ball and a morder shot or a fire dagger attk then say a dagger slash.

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5 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

It works but not all of ele skills in say fire do burn. Aoe dmg alone is not fire its just aoe dmg.

Sadly i would not call arcane shield or armor of earth "magic" in that they are very physical effects maybe if the arcane shield blocks all and fire back base off of the number of effect blocked maybe if armor of earth had a real effect on the armor of earth part of the skill  not just an on apply effect. The "magic would be not the block or the stab / protection but the pay off of using the skill right or added effects for having use that skill effect.

I went through and counted.

Dagger - 3 Skills in Fire deal Burning, 2 do not, although one of those two skills has interplay with burning.
Scepter - All 3 Skills in Fire deal Burning.
Staff - 2 Skills in Fire deal burning, 3 do not, although 1 of those three skills is a Fire Field, which by your own admission is the closest to magic we get in the game.
Warhorn - 1 skill deals burning, 1 does not,.
Sword - 3 skills deal burning, 2 do not (counting the first two in the auto attack chain as separate, although argument could be made they are all one skill.).

EDIT: Oh, forgot about Focus, which both skills cause burning.

And this is not counting dual attacks which if we added:

Dagger - 5 Burn, 3 No
Scepter- 5 Burn, 1 No
Staff - 3 Burn, 5 Do not.
Sword - 6 Burn, 2 No

Overal: 22 (+2 focus, +1 WH) Burn, 12 Don't (+1 WH)

And this is just considering Fire... there are plenty of Water skills that Chill, Air that Blind or Debuff and Earth that Bleed or Cripple.  Not to mention skills like Phoenix and Lava Skin not only burn, but also support the Elementalist magically. So yes, they have magical properties to them, they're not magic damage types.

And your second point is just moving the goal post for what you call magic. It goes from 'being able to self buff is magic' to now being 'well, they self buff but its not unique so not magic.' Is that really a big issue? I'd rather things be uniform for balance so I don't have to learn a 100 different tiny profession unique icons that basically do the same thing.

 

5 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

Ele mostly weaver should have the ability to boots its ability to cast spells in a given moment what we could call magic control and not just spaming effect but a real timing of skills.

So basically Weave Self and Unravel? Both of those skill give the Weaver the ability to do exactly that, easier access to attunements and skills to cast spells and have better control of their magic.

 

5 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

Ele is the MAGES of gw2 and its the mages of the primal elements of the world every thing else is made form the primal elements or they would not be the primal elements. So ele should have far stronger of that given element effects but only that elements effect where other classes mix and match the different magics. Arcane skills use to be unblockable and for what ever reason they crit but are also high condi aimed skills because reason?

I don't think thats really how magic works in this universe though?  Magic in GW2 is more based on the ley lines which can then be channeled into the magic the user wants. Elementalists choose to channel that into the elements, which is why all their magic comes from the Elemental Forces, but that doesn't necessarily mean that their magic is somehow more or less primal than whatever a Ranger uses

(EDIT: I know they are said to channel 'primal forces' but I always took that as just referring to the Elements being primal in nature, not that they are somehow tapping into some sort of primal elemental energy that all other classes magic springs from. GW1 was kind of like this with the Magic being linked from the Gods but that has been retconned).

This probably just comes down to how people view it though, as I mentioned earlier, Warriors have only one way to throw a rock while an Elementalist has many, thats what sets them apart.

When were Arcane skills ever unblockable? And probably the reason they crit and deal high condi damage is because they're the closest thing to the raw, primal energy you want Elementalist to have.

Anyway... at the end of the day, as you said earlier this is all your opinion and if you want to have this idea of magical damage being the defining factor of what makes a mage a mage then sure. But when I hear that argument and look at what elementalist offers, I just don't see it.

Edited by fuzzyp.6295
Forgot focus + primal forces edit
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7 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

Rdm is a whm/blm with a sword in ff11 it was never its own thing  is that different in ff14? Weaver is not a rdm it is a power creeped core ele. At best its duel skills will never cover both an support / aggressive balance its nearly a pure dmg class but with higher def effects making it even less of an "mage" like class then say core ele and tempest and soon to be catalyses.

 

I mean technically all ele specs can heal. themselves possibly a little bit to everyone and do some sort of buff so in a way its a redmage.

Edited by Axl.8924
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12 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

Rdm is a whm/blm with a sword in ff11 it was never its own thing  is that different in ff14? Weaver is not a rdm it is a power creeped core ele. At best its duel skills will never cover both an support / aggressive balance its nearly a pure dmg class but with higher def effects making it even less of an "mage" like class then say core ele and tempest and soon to be catalyses.

RDM was a official class in FFXIV, it wields a sword and has a ranged combo which powers a melee combo with a sword and focus. 

And I didn't say it was a RDM. 

I stated examples of where I've enjoyed the same aesthetic. 

And weaver has enough unique to be more then just a core ele with power creep. 

Generic "mages" are boring. Elementalist is alot more fun then a "caster". There are lots of people who don't like the concept of a proffession that stands at range and casts spells I'm afraid. 

Weaver has a satisfying rotation, which some of the best effects the game has with a very fast paced gameplay and a amazing battle mage feel. 

I prefer what elementalist is at this point then a "mage" if it was a generic mage I'd of simply never rolled one. 

The same as I never played a mage in FFXIV, I never played a mage in WoW past owning them as ALTs as there was weekly things etc etc I could use them for farm. 

I think I tried to main a mage once in WoW and the burnout made me quit the game for almost a entire expansions. 

Elementalist is a great class, and it's unique to what generally is expected with it. I get people will get annoyed espically considering once upon a time the proffession did have ranged gameplay. But there's no strict statement across the board. 

There's a audience for both and obviously as the ranged audience are currently not being appeased its the audience on the forums. 

But I'd argue in 99% of builds ranged options are never appeased in this game as ranged combat is done so poorly in gw2. It conflicts dramatically with the boon systems while also having sustain trade offs and elementalist defintly doesn't need to be losing more sustain. But your never gonna get a ranged weapon with as many evades and things as sword while doing the same DPS as it would neuter the point of playing sword doing this. 

And yeah RDM was a jack of all trades alike elementalist. It did abit of healing abit of damage abit of raid buffing, the only difference likely would be RDM had physical cast usuage, although every cast made the next instant. 

Its susposed to be a 50% mage 50% fencer effectively. Although they never got the melee aspects of it wide enough to be quite 50%. It did lack complexity tho, RDM was considered the easiest class to play. 

Edited by Daddy.8125
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6 hours ago, fuzzyp.6295 said:

I went through and counted.

Dagger - 3 Skills in Fire deal Burning, 2 do not, although one of those two skills has interplay with burning.
Scepter - All 3 Skills in Fire deal Burning.
Staff - 2 Skills in Fire deal burning, 3 do not, although 1 of those three skills is a Fire Field, which by your own admission is the closest to magic we get in the game.
Warhorn - 1 skill deals burning, 1 does not,.
Sword - 3 skills deal burning, 2 do not (counting the first two in the auto attack chain as separate, although argument could be made they are all one skill.).

EDIT: Oh, forgot about Focus, which both skills cause burning.

And this is not counting dual attacks which if we added:

Dagger - 5 Burn, 3 No
Scepter- 5 Burn, 1 No
Staff - 3 Burn, 5 Do not.
Sword - 6 Burn, 2 No

Overal: 22 (+2 focus, +1 WH) Burn, 12 Don't (+1 WH)

And this is just considering Fire... there are plenty of Water skills that Chill, Air that Blind or Debuff and Earth that Bleed or Cripple.  Not to mention skills like Phoenix and Lava Skin not only burn, but also support the Elementalist magically. So yes, they have magical properties to them, they're not magic damage types.

And your second point is just moving the goal post for what you call magic. It goes from 'being able to self buff is magic' to now being 'well, they self buff but its not unique so not magic.' Is that really a big issue? I'd rather things be uniform for balance so I don't have to learn a 100 different tiny profession unique icons that basically do the same thing.

 

So basically Weave Self and Unravel? Both of those skill give the Weaver the ability to do exactly that, easier access to attunements and skills to cast spells and have better control of their magic.

 

I don't think thats really how magic works in this universe though?  Magic in GW2 is more based on the ley lines which can then be channeled into the magic the user wants. Elementalists choose to channel that into the elements, which is why all their magic comes from the Elemental Forces, but that doesn't necessarily mean that their magic is somehow more or less primal than whatever a Ranger uses

(EDIT: I know they are said to channel 'primal forces' but I always took that as just referring to the Elements being primal in nature, not that they are somehow tapping into some sort of primal elemental energy that all other classes magic springs from. GW1 was kind of like this with the Magic being linked from the Gods but that has been retconned).

This probably just comes down to how people view it though, as I mentioned earlier, Warriors have only one way to throw a rock while an Elementalist has many, thats what sets them apart.

When were Arcane skills ever unblockable? And probably the reason they crit and deal high condi damage is because they're the closest thing to the raw, primal energy you want Elementalist to have.

Anyway... at the end of the day, as you said earlier this is all your opinion and if you want to have this idea of magical damage being the defining factor of what makes a mage a mage then sure. But when I hear that argument and look at what elementalist offers, I just don't see it.

What about the other atuments? And there is something to be said about the named skills that are not applying burning or not applying might. We could also say blind is part of fire atument.

Just giving your self the same boons that you already give you self dose not make for a "weaver" self buff at best they are 2ed effects its the faster swaps and "un dueling" there main effect.

If that not how magic works then the elementalists is not using the elemental of magic. That would make it an non mage. Its more of an lore thing and animation not real magic at that point.

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4 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

that not how magic works then the elementalists is not using the elemental of magic. That would make it an non mage. Its more of an lore thing and animation not real magic at that point

You can litterally see the elements and magical use in the physical ability itself. 

Got Weavers turning themselves to stone. 

Using the winds to circle themselves reflecting projectiles.

Comets falling out the sky on people. 

Shocking aura / fire aura exploding on people. 

Your litterally riding rock formations through the battle ground. 

Your shooting people yards backwards which the force of wind. 

Your summoning lightning from your hand and using it as a whip. 

Your skin turning into fire and burning those around you. 

Diving at targets and exploding flames around them. 

Creating Walls of fire. 

Evading backwards using water to evade attacks. 

How can you litterally say this proffession doesn't use magic.... 

If a wizard bash's someone skull in with his stick after exploding a corridor of people up consider him no longer magic because he's used a physical attack? 

News flash magic users can do MORE then just use magic. magic is ONE of the things they bring. 

Magic has 0 to do with combo fields. Existing effects or lasting animations. 

If you fire a fireball out your right hand your wielding magic. If you heal a person with the use of water your wielding magic. If you turn urself into mist. Your wielding magic. If you teleport your wielding magic. If I shoot someone with a slab of rock you are wielding magic. 

Gandalf the grey did not make pretty circular fields effects to prove himself a wizard. He hit the floor with his stick and made a bridge collasp. 

It may not wield magic in a way you want it to personally. But to say the proffession doesn't wield magic is a lie 

Edited by Daddy.8125
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33 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

You can litterally see the elements and magical use in the physical ability itself. 

Got Weavers turning themselves to stone. 

Using the winds to circle themselves reflecting projectiles.

Comets falling out the sky on people. 

Shocking aura / fire aura exploding on people. 

Your litterally riding rock formations through the battle ground. 

Your shooting people yards backwards which the force of wind. 

Your summoning lightning from your hand and using it as a whip. 

Your skin turning into fire and burning those around you. 

Diving at targets and exploding flames around them. 

Creating Walls of fire. 

Evading backwards using water to evade attacks. 

How can you litterally say this proffession doesn't use magic.... 

If a wizard bash's someone skull in with his stick after exploding a corridor of people up consider him no longer magic because he's used a physical attack? 

News flash magic users can do MORE then just use magic. magic is ONE of the things they bring. 

Magic has 0 to do with combo fields. Existing effects or lasting animations. 

If you fire a fireball out your right hand your wielding magic. If you heal a person with the use of water your wielding magic. If you turn urself into mist. Your wielding magic. If you teleport your wielding magic. If I shoot someone with a slab of rock you are wielding magic. 

Gandalf the grey did not make pretty circular fields effects to prove himself a wizard. He hit the floor with his stick and made a bridge collasp. 

It may not wield magic in a way you want it to personally. But to say the proffession doesn't wield magic is a lie 

I am not saying there no magic like but there a lot of effects on ele that simply are just animations of magic and that it. Every example your given is not the full kit of ele and to chary pick the things that are magic line realty hid the fact that there are blurt missing effects on ele that we would call magic. As well as the move away from combos the "old" magic of gw2 from a 1 butte press on a non mages class.

Every thing your saying can be just another version of a shield block or an invisibility state that we see on other classes. If your truly mind set is it looks like magic so it is then every class in gw2 is a mages.

Till you can blast for quickness and alacrity maybe even barrier combo fields are a lacking part of the game. But they are still a major part of what made ele at one point a mages class. Might dose not cut it and the lost of fury blast was a major blow to field mages play.

If your fire ball dose not burn it is not made of fire. If your ice throw attks dont chill then it is not ice. If your rock dose not smash and bleed it is not a rock. If your lighting dose not shock or stun it is not lighting. Sure there some skills like that on ele but they are not all of the skills.

Gandalf i think broke down the bounds of the elements of the bridge to make it collapse.

The lack of imagination of what magic can do is what wrong here. If all you think magic is lazier beams that look cool but are just light tide to a projectile then that more of the game maker and book writers move makers and ones own lack of imagination.

This game gw2 is more about looks then truly getting into what magic is and ele being THE MAGES of the game where every one is a mages part time (yet some how has far more potent effects) then the reason for being a mages is lost.

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@Jski.6180

Ugh

While posted it I accidently deleted my post with all it detailed out. I don't feel like retyping it out since it took me way too long.

But basically, following your own suggestions of what would count as a  'magic' skill i came up with

"Magical" Elementalist Skills: 82
"Non-Magical" Elementalist Skills: 27

(By your own admission, you actually increased the amount of Fire skills from 22 to 24 with Heat Sync and Pressure Blast now being considered magic as well)

And that was being very  generous with skills that seem obviously magical (Swirling Winds, Gust, Magentic and Shocking Aura) not counting because they didn't hit your rules of Damage/Condition Damage/Boon or Buff. And this is not touching the traits, utility skills, Trident or Hammer.
 

I also a thing on Unravel and Weave Self wondering why despite it literally doing what you suggested two posts ago is suddenly not counting, but its just pretty clear there is no hoop you won't jump through to discredit the Elementalist's magical nature.

Edited by fuzzyp.6295
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19 minutes ago, fuzzyp.6295 said:

@Jski.6180

Ugh

While posted it I accidently deleted my post with all it detailed out. I don't feel like retyping it out since it took me way too long.

But basically, following your own suggestions of what would count as a  'magic' skill i came up with

"Magical" Elementalist Skills: 82
"Non-Magical" Elementalist Skills: 27

(By your own admission, you actually increased the amount of Fire skills from 22 to 24 with Heat Sync and Pressure Blast now being considered magic as well)

And that was being very  generous with skills that seem obviously magical (Swirling Winds, Gust, Magentic and Shocking Aura) not counting because they didn't hit your rules of Damage/Condition Damage/Boon or Buff. And this is not touching the traits, utility skills, Trident or Hammer.
 

I find it best to keep point simple.

Then lets make though 27 skills "magic" and lets buff the other 82 to be stronger then other non ele "magic."

Swirling winds should be an lighting field, gust should give you boons or at least "push" your team by giving them super speed, Auras over all should be base off the caster so the added effects though traits that ele has should play a real roll in combat.

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have i been lied to and that warr is actually a mage but with physical animations? maybe ranger is a mage, their pet is actually a magical spirit but the game applies an animal skin on them

1 hour ago, Jski.6180 said:

Auras over all should be base off the caster so the added effects though traits that ele has should play a real roll in combat.

i think this is already the case, if jski applies magnetic aura to noodle ant, the aura “belongs” to jski despite being on noodle ant, in the same way that passive effects like soothing mist is applied, any reflect that occurs will be treated as if jski reflected it. its just that there arent any added effects to auras in game aside from gaining boons upon receiving auras (which is how allies gain those boons in the first place) and could honestly be an interesting mechanic to play with, but auras get overwritten by newest application so im not sure far that route would go

edit: transmute aura and fire aura detonation (berserker) only checks for existing aura on self regardless of source, if transmutes did the effect for all auras “belonging” to the ele that would be cool, but as i just mentioned, now imagine a not-friendly tempest comes in and overwrites ALL your auras, you cant even use the skill anymore

Edited by Noodle Ant.1605
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6 minutes ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

have i been lied to and that warr is actually a mage but with physical animations? maybe ranger is a mage, their pet is actually a magical spirit but the game applies an animal skin on them

i think this is already the case, if jski applies magnetic aura to noodle ant, the aura “belongs” to jski despite being on noodle ant, in the same way that passive effects like soothing mist is applied, any reflect that occurs will be treated as if jski reflected it. its just that there arent any added effects to auras in game aside from gaining boons upon receiving auras (which is how allies gain those boons in the first place) and could honestly be an interesting mechanic to play with, but auras get overwritten by newest application so im not sure far that route would go

I am mostly talking about say blinding ash and lighting rod. Auras are applied only atm so if you as a caster have added effects on say burning or cc it dose not factor into the auras you put on others. Its just odd only auras act like this but venmon ageist and arcain power are still base off of the caster. So condi duration boon duration even stun duration + dose not help the auras you apply to others.

It just shows a full lack of owner ship of something that is mostly an ele only effect. It always felt like a slap in the face for ele ability to be a "mages" support. "I gave you an effect that only works when other hit you as i am on a class that cant be hit with out high conquest. Yet i cant get any benefit from putting them on you from the effect of the aura it self only on the applying of that aura." It feels very off and non magic of gw2.

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