Are Elementalists supposed to be "Mages"?

[Noodle Ant.1605]

9 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

I am mostly talking about say blinding ash and lighting rod. Auras are applied only atm so if you as a caster have added effects on say burning or cc it dose not factor into the auras you put on others. Its just odd only auras act like this but venmon ageist and arcain power are still base off of the caster. So condi duration boon duration even stun duration + dose not help the auras you apply to others.

It just shows a full lack of owner ship of something that is mostly an ele only effect. It always felt like a slap in the face for ele ability to be a "mages" support. "I gave you an effect that only works when other hit you as i am on a class that cant be hit with out high conquest. Yet i cant get any benefit from putting them on you from the effect of the aura it self only on the applying of that aura." It feels very off and non magic of gw2.

read edit

unless auras get reworked, i dont think its worthwhile. ill provide another situation - imagine having those traits yourself and then applying auras to yourself to proc those traits. the same not-friendly tempest with none of those traits comes over and replaces all of your auras. technically speaking, your auras have been deleted off the face of tyria and therefore your traits should not work at all. this is why auras/related skills dont work as you expect it to. this is a technical limitation that unfortunately doesnt care how magic is supposed to work

a lot of things in game just have technical limitations that dont care how you think magic should work, and frankly i dont think thats changing

[Jski.6180]

8 minutes ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

read edit

unless auras get reworked, i dont think its worthwhile. ill provide another situation - imagine having those traits yourself and then applying auras to yourself to proc those traits. the same not-friendly tempest with none of those traits comes over and replaces all of your auras. technically speaking, your auras have been deleted off the face of tyria and therefore your traits should not work at all. this is why auras/related skills dont work as you expect it to. this is a technical limitation that unfortunately doesnt care how magic is supposed to work

a lot of things in game just have technical limitations that dont care how you think magic should work, and frankly i dont think thats changing

From the point of view of the ele it would give a great deal more owner ship over its auras and "mages" support. Much like a gurd is getting owner ship of its Aegis or even thf with its venomes. This is how the other effects in the game work we already have reg what should be an ele boon often getting comply override by an eng reg spam not because they are strong but because anet felt the need to give eng more "magic" boon support then ele.

The game is balanced in such a way to keep the ele ability to be a mages to only as a point of lore. That a realy sad state of magic for gw2 if the "mages" of the game is the worst or not even using magic from the point of gw2 game play and balancing.

You could even make a point that ele has pets yet its effects of aura support though traits do not carry over for its own pet. That right there tells you there is something very wrong with the current state of the game.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Jski.6180

[Daddy.8125]

3 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

am not saying there no magic like but there a lot of effects on ele that simply are just animations of magic and that it. Every example your given is not the full kit of ele and to chary pick the things that are magic line realty hid the fact that there are blurt missing effects on ele that we would call magic. As well as the move away from combos the "old" magic of gw2 from a 1 butte press on a non mages class

Pretty certain you could litterally list 90% of eles abilities and utilities and they are magic. 

I'm struggling to think of what physical abilities you even going on about

And no they magic

If you strike a target and igbite them without beforehand setting the blade on fire it's magic

Even sword auto attacks are all magical. 

All of the abilities of elementals uses a element via magic regardless of what ability you want to reference here. 

Healing, barrier, shields, elemental attacks are all magic.

Just because I can't list every elementalist ability in the game and tell you where the magic is doesn't mean they aren't magic. 

By the sounds of it this problem lays more with your opinon of what magic should be instead of its actual definitive definition. 

Daggers involve what

A short ranged magical ability shooting 3 flames forward. Throwing a whirl of water of the target, summoning a spike of earth beneath the target and creating a lightning whip. 

It's abilities. 

Fire 

Dash with blazing trail. The fire on the floor is magic. 

Breathing fire on enemy target it is magic. 

Fire aura, protecting yourself with a barrier of flames is magic. 

Flame wall is summing a fire wall. That is magic. 

Earth

Earth ring, is magic it's litterally summing spikes out the ground. 

Riding earth a distance is magic. 

Summoning a larger ring of earth is obviously magic. 

Turning urself to earth and even reflecting projectiles is magic. 

Water

Ice comet is obviously magic your dropping ice upon a target. 

Water breathe again magic. 

Water shield again summoning a shield of a element is magic. 

Using water to chill a enemy target is magic. 

Lightning 

Turning urself into a lightning bolt is magic. 

Shocking aura by default as above is magic. 

Throwing Ur target a distance by wind is magic. 

Can't remember its fifth ability. 

Weavers sword. 

Auto attacks apply elemental damage. It's magic. They just are you aren't applying fire to the sword your channeling elemental damage via sword swing. 

Fire 

Leap + explosive of fire is magic. Your litterally casting fire. 

Ignite self and burn surroundings. Go set yourself in fire tell me if it hurts. It don't hurt Ur character. Why? Magic. 

 

Lightning 

Litterally a teleport. It's magic by default. 

Attacking the person and rapidly causes electrical damage. Is magic. 

Water

Stabbing people and applying chilled effect is a existing magical effect. 

Evading attacks via water is magic. 

Earth. 

Rapidly attacking via rocks is magical. 

Jumping into the earth is again magical. You could not physically do this without first making a hole to jump on which the character obviously doesn't. 

Focus, staff and sceptar are all magic by default. There are ranged abilities and are magic. I don't think we need to break those down. 

Tempest. 

Overloads are obviously magical. 

Using a warhorn to channel elemental attacks which pretty much all the warhorn abilities follow are all once again magical. 

Right now give me some examples of physical attacks elementalists have. 

 

Edited January 24, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Jski.6180]

16 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Pretty certain you could litterally list 90% of eles abilities and utilities and they are magic. 

I'm struggling to think of what physical abilities you even going on about

And no they magic

If you strike a target and igbite them without beforehand setting the blade on fire it's magic

Even sword auto attacks are all magical. 

 

Mostly skills that do nothing but dmg or have no field effect and or support effect. The older skills of ele. At least the newer skills have added effects like your sword auto sadly not all of the other autos are so luckily. Even the hammer for catalyes is missing some effects air 1 and (sry i mean earth 1) fire 1.

But even the skills with effects dont cut it for real use getting back to what ele use to be as an class for its "magic" though fields and combos as well as non power creeped boon support for "weaker" boons that seem to be the eles atument main effects boons yet weaker then other classes. A kind of "magic light" for ele but magic for other classes.

If for some reason a war can fire burning arrows at ppl and set them on fire why cant a skill with the word fire in it not? (Maybe not the best example in the point of view of balancing but i am going off of naming so its the point is made better on the forms.)

So aura support being un-hinged as it is from the caster takes a way from that caster magic class. Much like if we start to take away boon duration from the caster of boons or added effect of boons would take away from that player as an support.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Jski.6180

[Daddy.8125]

10 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

Mostly skills that do nothing but dmg or have no field effect and or support effect. The older skills of ele. At least the newer skills have added effects like your sword auto sadly not all of the other autos are so luckily. Even the hammer for catalyes is missing some effects air 1 and fire 1.

But even the skills with effects dont cut it for real use getting back to what ele use to be as an class for its "magic" though fields and combos as well as non power creeped boon support for "weaker" boons that seem to be the eles atument main effects boons yet weaker then other classes. A kind of "magic light" for ele but magic for other classes.

If for some reason a war can fire burning arrows at ppl and set them on fire why cant a skill with the word fire in it not? (Maybe not the best example in the point of view of balancing but i am going off of naming so its the point is made better on the forms.)

So aura support being un-hinged as it is from the caster takes a way from that caster magic class. Much like if we start to take away boon duration from the caster of boons or added effect of boons would take away from that player as an support.

But that isn't the strict definition of magic is it. Magic can just do damage. 

If you electrocute someone with Ur barehands you've not done anything but damage. It's still magic. 

This just isn't true this isn't the definition of magic. 

If it wasn't magic, a warrior could do it, a warrior cannot apply elemental based damage for the reasons it's magic. 

Again, this seems your coating your own definition of what magic does and it's just extensively above what magic really is. 

All my examples are magic and I'm sat on a couch Infront of the TV.... Physical abilities are abilities that only use what is humanly possible. 

You as a human cannot hit someone with a sword and set them on fire. Because you are not magic. It doesn't matter if it has a after effect or supportive ability. Channeling fire through a weapon is by default magic 

Elementalist is magic, it wields the elements through attacks. Same as a enhancement shaman from WoW was magic, it just wielded magic in a different way to standardized casting.

You could make a argument its evolution. 

If magic was real. Do you rly think humans wouldn't strive to make these things faster, easier and more reliable. 

Standing still and casting takes time and gives the enemy a advantage. 

Creating static areas of magic is again giving the enemy the advantage that you can't move 

It's very likely humans would look for a way to wield magic through a weapon so they can actively be in combat and use abilities without pause. 

It's pretty sensible and imho justified and can even be reasoned with a real life comparisob

Elementalists don't live uptoo a magical theme you want and you have every right to express that. But you can't say it isn't magic because by definition it is. 

But I don't think elementalist is ever going to be the type of magic user you want. 

Edited January 24, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Noodle Ant.1605]

24 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

From the point of view of the ele it would give a great deal more owner ship over its auras and "mages" support. Much like a gurd is getting owner ship of its Aegis or even thf with its venomes. This is how the other effects in the game work we already have reg what should be an ele boon often getting comply override by an eng reg spam not because they are strong but because anet felt the need to give eng more "magic" boon support then ele.

what is reg spam? regen works in a way where the one with the highest healing power takes precedence, which is actually flawed because it doesnt account for healing mods. a 401 regen tick can be replaced by a sad 298 one, just because the 298 had more healing power (but 0 healing mods).
engi has a trait that increases healing power while ele (when not weaver) doesnt so the game will prioritize the engis regen if both have the same base healing power

24 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

You could even make a point that ele has pets yet its effects of aura support though traits do not carry over for its own pet. That right there tells you there is something very wrong with the current state of the game.

someones always has lose here, if you have two guards that apply aegis to the same target, who does it count to?

as i said, unless auras get reworked what we have now is probably the most sensible imo, id hate for that random not-friendly tempest to constantly troll me

[Jski.6180]

Just now, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

what is reg spam? regen works in a way where the one with the highest healing power takes precedence, which is actually flawed because it doesnt account for healing mods. a 401 regen tick can be replaced by a sad 298 one, just because the 298 had more healing power (but 0 healing mods).
engi has a trait that increases healing power while ele (when not weaver) doesnt so the game will prioritize the engis regen if both have the same base healing power

someones always has lose here, if you have two guards that apply aegis to the same target, who does it count to?

as i said, unless auras get reworked what we have now is probably the most sensible imo, id hate for that random not-friendly tempest to constantly troll me

You can cover over ppl reg with hidden stacks to where you eat up any reg healing from the ele if you can spam it past the max duration. The healing power thing just messed up when your runing a full healing build with a FB who gets higher healing power.

Not truly sure but if you still able to get an healing effect on aegis form some one else then why not keep the aura tide to the ele and or caster of thoughts auras?

Not-friendly but friendly tempest you say? Thfs do this with stealth fields and revieal the game not realty well made for support over all. Just letting an ele have owner ship of its mage support effects would be a lot better then what we have even if we have endless amount of Not-friendly but friendly tempest.

6 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

But that isn't the strict definition of magic is it. Magic can just do damage. 

If you electrocute someone with Ur barehands you've not done anything but damage. It's still magic. 

This just isn't true this isn't the definition of magic. 

If it wasn't magic, a warrior could do it, a warrior cannot apply elemental based damage for the reasons it's magic. 

 

Its not as the magic type comes into play when we talk about magic dmg vs say a physical dmg hit this game dose not have that so we have to go with added effects.

Your still shocking someone that should be different in some way then throwing a fire ball then throwing ice. These things do different things when you hit by them. In a way we are talking about ele magic vs say a memzer magic or vs a nacro magic (both mages classes that have the ability to disrupted other ppl magic and have the ability to boots there own magic for a fast or big hit in a way more mages like then ele the pure mages of the game.)

[Daddy.8125]

7 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

Your still shocking someone that should be different in some way then throwing a fire ball then throwing ice. These things do different things when you hit by them. In a way we are talking about ele magic vs say a memzer magic or vs a nacro magic (both mages classes that have the ability to disrupted other ppl magic and have the ability to boots there own magic for a fast or big hit in a way more mages like then ele the pure mages of the game.

But they do 

Fire applies burning and blind 

Air applies stuns knock-downs and CC 

Water applies healing, regeneration and chill

Earth applies shields via protection through earth magic and bleeding based injuries to enemies. 

How do they not apply different things? 

They all have their distinctive different colours, effects, uses and what they do. 

And catalyst? 

It's very obviously magic, just because some of its auto attacks are physical don't mean it isn't magic. Again a magic user doesn't have to be 100% mage use. To be a mage based class you have to be atleast 50% magic. 

Hence why things such as Spellbladea and Nightblades are commonly depicted as mage type characters. 

Because they wield atleast 50% magic. 

I'd argue elementalists attunements all pretty much follow realistic results if being attacked by them. 

 

Edited January 24, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Jski.6180]

4 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

But they do 

Fire applies burning and blind 

Air applies stuns knock-downs and CC 

Water applies healing, regeneration and chill

Earth applies shields via protection through earth magic and bleeding based injuries to enemies. 

How do they not apply different things? 

They all have their distinctive different colours, effects, uses and what they do. 

And catalyst? 

It's very obviously magic, just because some of its auto attacks are physical don't mean it isn't magic. Again a magic user doesn't have to be 100% mage use. To be a mage based class you have to be atleast 50% magic. 

Hence why things such as Spellbladea and Nightblades are commonly depicted as mage type characters. 

Because they wield atleast 50% magic. 

But why do we have skills that apply no burning just dmg yet they are for sure "on fire" why are the auras you give to other ppl not causing blind on there burn effects that sadly do not show you doing the burning nor dose it show you giving might?

Why are these cc weaker then say other classes whom are not "mage like."

Why are water skills on ele less healing weaker regs and often easy to get out of chills?

Why cant you shield others with your earth skills? Why dose a earth wall stop nothing? Where the earth field?

The animations of the skills are not applying the effects because they are just animation and looks.

Ele IS the 100% mages class yet its magic is weaker or non existing then other classes whom are not mages classes.

 

[Daddy.8125]

42 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

But why do we have skills that apply no burning just dmg yet they are for sure "on fire" why are the auras you give to other ppl not causing blind on there burn effects that sadly do not show you doing the burning nor dose it show you giving might?

Why are these cc weaker then say other classes whom are not "mage like."

Why are water skills on ele less healing weaker regs and often easy to get out of chills?

Why cant you shield others with your earth skills? Why dose a earth wall stop nothing? Where the earth field?

The animations of the skills are not applying the effects because they are just animation and looks.

Ele IS the 100% mages class yet its magic is weaker or non existing then other classes whom are not mages classes.

 

How many proffessions don't actually have magic . 

thief, engineer and warrior is the correct answer. 

thief - uses poisons to replicate magical effects such as turning the enemy to stone. 

engineer uses elixir guns, flamethrowers, grenades and more to replicate magical effects such as ice bombs 

warriors who are susposed to have a raw strength level hundreds of times stronger to realistic expectation

When you break this all down and reliese the vast majority of rpoffessions are magical 2/3 which arent have depicted other things which replicate magical effects. 

and the one that isn't is susposed to be stronger then believably possible. 

you reach a explanation to why u aren't default stronger via magical use there's very little in the game that doesn't use magic in some variant realistically. 

 

Edited January 24, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Noodle Ant.1605]

58 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

You can cover over ppl reg with hidden stacks to where you eat up any reg healing from the ele if you can spam it past the max duration.

sorry what

58 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

Not truly sure but if you still able to get an healing effect on aegis form some one else then why not keep the aura tide to the ele and or caster of thoughts auras?

yeah it can, but as i said, i dont think modifying the aura effect itself will get very far. having effects happen on aura application is the only way it can be guaranteed to work

like regen, the guard with the trait has compete with every other person applying aegis if they want theirs to proc

58 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

Not-friendly but friendly tempest you say? Thfs do this with stealth fields and revieal the game not realty well made for support over all. Just letting an ele have owner ship of its mage support effects would be a lot better then what we have even if we have endless amount of Not-friendly but friendly tempest.

yeah and no. better in some ways, worse in others, and the way it works now honestly doesnt matter that much

[Jski.6180]

1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

How many proffessions don't actually have magic . 

thief, engineer and warrior is the correct answer. 

thief - uses poisons to replicate magical effects such as turning the enemy to stone. 

engineer uses elixir guns, flamethrowers, grenades and more to replicate magical effects such as ice bombs 

warriors who are susposed to have a raw strength level hundreds of times stronger to realistic expectation

When you break this all down and reliese the vast majority of rpoffessions are magical 2/3 which arent have depicted other things which replicate magical effects. 

and the one that isn't is susposed to be stronger then believably possible. 

you reach a explanation to why u aren't default stronger via magical use there's very little in the game that doesn't use magic in some variant realistically. 

 

I think they all have magic some how they have stronger magic then ele! I will never get over the fact med kit is stronger then the entries of ele water skills and trait line.

 

3 minutes ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

sorry what

yeah it can, but as i said, i dont think modifying the aura effect itself will get very far. having effects happen on aura application is the only way it can be guaranteed to work

like regen, the guard with the trait has compete with every other person applying aegis if they want theirs to proc

yeah and no. better in some ways, worse in others, and the way it works now honestly doesnt matter that much

So reg caps at 30 sec like other boons but the newest one kicks the oldest one off. So if your giving out reg so fast you can push off other ppl reg ele cant keep up with that sadly. That and the "stronger" reg stacking effects often get overrides or simply dont work see healing rain.

But why not let auras hold there caster effects i still do not see the problem its not like other auras now are not doing what you said. If any thing its worst now that a 3 sec aura can override a 5 sec one like the old super speed problem. They fixed super speed and auras are still left out in the cold.

[Noodle Ant.1605]

20 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

So reg caps at 30 sec like other boons but the newest one kicks the oldest one off. So if your giving out reg so fast you can push off other ppl reg ele cant keep up with that sadly. That and the "stronger" reg stacking effects often get overrides or simply dont work see healing rain.

but all that really matters is the regen with the highest healing pwr backing it. if you want your regen to always tick, run the highest raw healing pwr setup. the only builds that can overtake are ones with equal base healing pwr + stats from traits

if your regen isnt even the one ticking off on people, why does this matter anyway?

20 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

But why not let auras hold there caster effects i still do not see the problem its not like other auras now are not doing what you said. If any thing its worst now that a 3 sec aura can override a 5 sec one like the old super speed problem. They fixed super speed and auras are still left out in the cold.

atm an ele with lightning rod traited can get their shocking aura overridden by someone who doesnt have the trait and the trait should still work

if we change it, the trait no longer procs

superspeed is a poor comparison because its always the same no matter the source

[Jski.6180]

24 minutes ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

but all that really matters is the regen with the highest healing pwr backing it. if you want your regen to always tick, run the highest raw healing pwr setup. the only builds that can overtake are ones with equal base healing pwr + stats from traits

if your regen isnt even the one ticking off on people, why does this matter anyway?

atm an ele with lightning rod traited can get their shocking aura overridden by someone who doesnt have the trait and the trait should still work

if we change it, the trait no longer procs

superspeed is a poor comparison because its always the same no matter the source

It dose for healing power to get the tick BUT this is from the 30 sec duration update reg now can be pushed off ppl if there enofe spam of the boon. So even the highest healing power dose not win out as much any more its more about landing a spam of the reg.

Super speed is a non boon that act just like a boon auras are a non boon that only some what acts like a boon. If your aura is 5 sec but some one give a 3 sec aura your aura is lost for the 3 sec aura. So yes as things stand its far far worst then the lighting rod ideal even if you may lose the effect due to some one else aura.

All example of why the ele class the "mages" class of gw2 no longer acts like a true mages because on-top of a few things other classes have stronger elemental magic then the ele class.

[Noodle Ant.1605]

23 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

It dose for healing power to get the tick BUT this is from the 30 sec duration update reg now can be pushed off ppl if there enofe spam of the boon. So even the highest healing power dose not win out as much any more its more about landing a spam of the reg.

if the system already knows to find the highest heal pwr regen, surely it knows to reject/replace weaker applications? at the very least i dont believe weaker applications can ever push out stronger ones

who spams regen that much that the healer has to play regen wars against their group…

23 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

Super speed is a non boon that act just like a boon auras are a non boon that only some what acts like a boon. If your aura is 5 sec but some one give a 3 sec aura your aura is lost for the 3 sec aura. So yes as things stand its far far worst then the lighting rod ideal even if you may lose the effect due to some one else aura.

sorry what

i thought we were talking about whose effect should proc? the person who just came in and randomly applied the 3s aura, or the person who originally applied the older 5s one with some intention?

i said superspeed is a poor example because it doesnt encounter this conundrum. it stacks because it doesnt matter who the superspeed belongs to

23 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

All example of why the ele class the "mages" class of gw2 no longer acts like a true mages because on-top of a few things other classes have stronger elemental magic then the ele class.

these are poor examples imo, but you can believe what you want

[Daddy.8125]

7 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

think they all have magic some how they have stronger magic then ele! I will never get over the fact med kit is stronger then the entries of ele water skills and trait line

They don't have stronger magic. You can't take in-game balancing into account of weather something's magic or not. 

6 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

All example of why the ele class the "mages" class of gw2 no longer acts like a true mages because on-top of a few things other classes have stronger elemental magic then the ele class

Who else uses elemental magic? Lol... 

Being magic doesn't mean your automatically the strongest. 

[Tescao.3042]

Did you guys know that arcane magic is a hidden element that can bind all other elements. In some theories, it was also called ether.

Primary elements are also associated with the state of matter.
Water is a liquid state. Air is a gaseous state. The earth is a solid state. Fire is a plasma state. There must be an element that links all these states.

Edited January 24, 2022 by DomHemingway.8436

[The Boz.2038]

Hmm.
Elements as states of matter... and maybe an elite spec that could... weave them together, somehow, to produce new, unique effects... With like a super cool ultimate if you combine all of them together somehow...

[Jski.6180]

10 hours ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

if the system already knows to find the highest heal pwr regen, surely it knows to reject/replace weaker applications? at the very least i dont believe weaker applications can ever push out stronger ones

who spams regen that much that the healer has to play regen wars against their group…

sorry what

i thought we were talking about whose effect should proc? the person who just came in and randomly applied the 3s aura, or the person who originally applied the older 5s one with some intention?

i said superspeed is a poor example because it doesnt encounter this conundrum. it stacks because it doesnt matter who the superspeed belongs to

these are poor examples imo, but you can believe what you want

But you can push reg off of ppl though spaming reg boon.

Just point out how they compare.

You do not have to like it but that how the game works now.

4 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

They don't have stronger magic. You can't take in-game balancing into account of weather something's magic or not. 

Who else uses elemental magic? Lol... 

Being magic doesn't mean your automatically the strongest. 

It dose oddly or magic is just a point of lore.

Every one that is what element means.

It means the magic should be stronger as its one strict roll.

[Daddy.8125]

8 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

But you can push reg off of ppl though spaming reg boon.

Just point out how they compare.

You do not have to like it but that how the game works now.

but it isnt true realistically.

8 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

It dose oddly or magic is just a point of lore.

Every one that is what element means.

It means the magic should be stronger as its one strict roll.

Ironically Elementalist is The ONLY Example of where "Magic doesnt do one strict thing".

Lets have a break down here.. of the standardized Weaver DPS Build and what it has within its kit.

Water

Twin Strike - CC, Fire + Frost damage, Burn + Chill.

Freezing Cust, CC - Applies Chill

Comet, Hard CC Applies a AoE 5 man Stun

Auto attack - Heals With a AoE Heal.

Riptide - a Evade, Damage tool, Applies regen and a Field which pulses 5 times AoE.

Shearing Edge - Damage, Barrier, CC - Chill.

Natural Frenzy - Strike Damage, Condi Damage, Barrier.

Aqua Siphon - Damage, Healing, Regen

Fire.

Auto attack, Strike Damage + Burn on final Swing.

Flame Uprising, Strike Damage, Field Damage, Burn

Pyro Vortex, Strike Damage, Barrier and Burn

Twin Strike as above.

Lava Skin - Damage, barrier, Stability, Burn, Pulse.

Flame Wall - Burn Damage.

Fire Shield - burns targets that hit you, Might + Burn.

Cauterizing Strike - Damage + burn

Earth

Auto attack - Strike Damage + Bleed

Earthern Vortex - Evade, Damage, Bleed + CC - Cripple

Lava Skin as above

Magnetic Wave - Damage + CC - Cripple

Obsidian Flesh - Invunerability.

Rust Frenzy - Damage + Bleed

Gale Strike - Damage, barrier, Bleed, Vulnerability, Hard CC - Float

Natural Frenzy as above

Air

Auto attack - Strike Damage + Charged Damage

Polaric Leap - Super Speed, Teleport, Hard CC - Stun

Quantum Strike - Strike Damage, Lightning Damage, Vulernability

Swirling Winds - invuln to ranged attacks.

Gale - hard CC - Knockdown

Gale Strike as Above

Shearing Edge as Above.

Pyro vortex as above.

At what point do our elements only do one thing?.. because they actually do a Absolute ton of things if u realistically look into them.

how many builds have 9 CC Abilities in a Full DPS Build? ofcourse each one does less, it'd be INSANE if it wasnt the case.

2 full  evades, 1x Invuln 1x Projectile Invuln. again how many full DPS Access to this?

3x Heals Without using ur Actual heal in a full DPS BUild

5x Self Barrier.

8x Burn abilities.

5x Bleed abilities

2x Regen.

Ofcourse this is weakened down. if u did this like a Primary role, Elementalist would be far the most broken option in the game realistically.

U cant have 9x CC abilities built in that hit as hard as Warriors. Because you would be Overpowered.

you cant have AoE Healing like a Healer, Because you would be Overpowered

you cant apply burn in as many stacks Because again you would be Overpowered.

you cant apply as many bleedstacks per ability because again you'd be Overpowered.

Because Elementalist have So many abilities. Balancing Everything means that each ability in turn is Weaker then a Proffession with Less Abilities, your 24 Ability rotation is not susposed to be stronger then another proffessions 9 ability rotation. and thats where ur getting stuck. you cant run around hitting / CC / Healing / Condi Stacking like every other proffession per click because of how many more abilities you have comparitively.

Im afraid. by a Absolute Mile. Elementalists Do not have Concentrated Power into One thing by a absolute mile. What Elementalists have is a Whole TON of buttons which actively do Alot of different things Stacked all together in 1 kit, Elementalist by nature are Jack of all trades. they do about everything. just not aswell as a Master of One.

we are susposed to dabble in everything. not Consolidate ourselves to one job.

you press More buttons to obtain the same objective. im afraid thats Life and how MMORPG Balancing works, you have More buttons therefore the power is spread over More buttons. the More of something there is the less Concentrated the Individual Ability is thats exactly how it works. its why i question alot why people want Base Ele to gain F5 as a Arcane Attunement.

Because Elementalists Power will be Once again devided up among a Larger pool of abilities and become Weaker per press.

8 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

It dose oddly or magic is just a point of lore.

 

the problem is. Every proffession now Wields Magic.

Engineer.... in the Asuran Storyline Asuras Show they find a way to infuse Magic into Science to advance their creations. which means things such as the holoforge and More could have Magic infusion I.E putting it on the same grounds as magic. just in a different measure.

Thief - EoD is bringing them a Magic based Specc.

Warriors - Bladesworns bullets are magic Infused.

the Top performers, the meta proffessions are ALL Magic Based.

Scourge, Renegade and Firebrand Ironically all have their Magic tunneled into Less things then Elementalist. as we are a Jack of All trades, Sometyhing that does everything.

you cant Point the Lore at "Magic V Might" when the fact of the matter 3/4s of the story show everythings got magic in it. Not to mention the Lore tiself Shows elder dragons Absorbind Magic which is Weakening the magic effectively. so on 2 fronts. ur "lore" is kinda Disproven realistically by whats happening in guild wars 2.

The issue is. most games have reached a Plateu. where Everything becomes Magic, because its Easier to justify why one magic is Stronge rthen another Magic then it is to justify a punch is Equalising with a FIre ball.

if the reason u've roleld Elementalist because u think "being magic should mean ur overpowered" im afraid most MMORPGS are gonna dissapoint you. because everythings magic in almost every game. if it isnt magic its "magic Infused" or Wields Magical weapons.

 

 

Edited January 25, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Noodle Ant.1605]

8 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

But you can push reg off of ppl though spaming reg boon.

yeah no. you definitely cannot “push regen off” because the game actually rejects applications past the 30s total. id imagine that higher heal pwr regen can still “push off” lower ones however, but that either means that this should never happen, or you dont need to be concerned because yours wouldnt tick anyway

edit: does regen even have a duration cap? i think it still works off the old hidden stack limit

Quote

Just point out how they compare.

You do not have to like it but that how the game works now

if you wanted auras to stack duration then you couldve said so separately

but it has nothing to do with your original point, where you wanted the effects from the person who last applied the aura to occur. im not saying it can never happen, but the current system is more consistent and troll-proof

but yes to auras stacking to some duration (specifically to remove lower duration auras overwriting longer ones)

Edited January 25, 2022 by Noodle Ant.1605

[Obtena.7952]

My advice ... don't impose your own ideas of what the game should be to justify what you want from it. It won't go well for you. We got people arguing that ele shouldn't have melee weapons because of this ... crazy stuff. 

The whole question of "ele = mage?" doesn't make sense here. I don't believe that's how Anet describes ele, ever. Convince yourself whatever you want, but there isn't a right answer to that and it's not really relevant to how Ele is designed anyways. It's an Elementalist and Anet decides what that is. 

Edited January 25, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Daddy.8125]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

The whole question of "ele = mage?" doesn't make sense here. I don't believe that's how Anet describes ele, ever. Convince yourself whatever you want, but there isn't a right answer to that and it's not really relevant to how Ele is designed anyways. It's an Elementalist and Anet decides what that is. 

while im a big For Melee Person. as seen in this conversation i prefer anets version of this proffession to almost every other MMORPG on the market i will say, its Starting screen does depict it closer to a mage then what it is.

Elementalist

Favors Ranged, Elemental maigc, Versatile Caster

Elementalists Harness the Power of the Four elements Water earth fire and Air to cast powerful spells, Their ability to Change their elemental attunement midcombat is versatile but difficult to master.

In this text, it Describes The elementalist to be a Ranged Element based Magical Caster. which Casts Powerful spells.

This is the Description of a mage realistically, Something that stands at Ranged with Cast times that make powerful elemental based magic.

Now, while that playstyle Defintly exists in the game and beyond looking at "meta builds" it defintly does enough to clear content, we even see a Staff weaver as a Solo option and staff tempest as a PvE Support build and at the start of pOF Staff weaver was a Meta choice prior the sword buffs.

Revenant and Engineer both have in theirs "Favors Ranged and Melee". making it Decisively clear, there are Melee and Ranged components to the proffession, while Elementalists that focuses on Ranged and Caster does not depict the direction the proffession has taken.

while i dont agree Anet should go back and Reverse the proffessions direction and very much agree to anets decisions surrounding the design of this proffession and its elite skills. its Tooltips in game defintly need updating to Depict the fact Elementalist over time has Defintly been pulled further down the paths of Melee combat.

as Majority of Elementalists Weapons Defintly do not Cast, it has More Melee Weapons then Ranged Options and both elites have been tied closely to requiring to be melee to take advantage of their mechanics I.E Overloads take place Around the tempest which means u have to be Melee to get the effects.

Overloads are the closest thing Ele has been given as a Casted ability in 9 years realistically.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Jski.6180]

@Daddy.8125

Dmg + more dmg is not 2 different things even if they are different condi dmg types. If your water skills are not out healing other classes skill that are also healing (maybe not a burst vs speed but a healing per sec) or is your water skills are not cleaning per sec more then other classes there is something wrong with the balancing. On thoughts line of thinking.

@Noodle Ant.1605

It dose cap at 30 sec and it dose eat older version of reg its very lame.

I person want auras to cap at 10 sec duration and not eat other auras but stack. I like to see the aura caster when it comes to powerful aura to have owner ship of thoughts auras.

[Noodle Ant.1605]

59 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

 

It dose cap at 30 sec and it dose eat older version of reg its very lame.

im going to give this a hard no, regen can definitely stack over 30s (because it still works on the hidden 5 stack limit). in fact, might and regen were never included on the list of boons that received a duration cap