Can We Fix Tie Breaking Procedures for AT's?

[ArthurDent.9538]

So this has been bugging me for a long time but I'm just going to use the AT from this morning as an example. There are two good teams in the AT my team and we'll call them Team B. First round of swiss we are against each other, the points stay close with the lead swapping multiple times till they pull ahead in the end with a close win. For the remainder of swiss rounds both teams basically hard stomp the other teams 500-0 each game. Yet, after swiss my team does not get to try a rematch for the final and instead a random team that got basically 500-0'd by Team B goes because we both had 2-1 records and some stupid janky tie breaking procedure decided they earned it more. I would propose that the tie break should give precedence to whichever team scored more points in their losing match(s) which wouldn't incentivize running up the score in the easy games but should eliminate the current nonsense of much weaker teams getting to elimination rounds over blatantly stronger teams.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1 hour ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

So this has been bugging me for a long time but I'm just going to use the AT from this morning as an example. There are two good teams in the AT my team and we'll call them Team B. First round of swiss we are against each other, the points stay close with the lead swapping multiple times till they pull ahead in the end with a close win. For the remainder of swiss rounds both teams basically hard stomp the other teams 500-0 each game. Yet, after swiss my team does not get to try a rematch for the final and instead a random team that got basically 500-0'd by Team B goes because we both had 2-1 records and some stupid janky tie breaking procedure decided they earned it more. I would propose that the tie break should give precedence to whichever team scored more points in their losing match(s) which wouldn't incentivize running up the score in the easy games but should eliminate the current nonsense of much weaker teams getting to elimination rounds over blatantly stronger teams.

 

Some teams actually half-throw in ATs to make sure they don't have to face you again in final round or sometimes just to troll you into a 3rd slot.

Example:

1. My team faces your team in 1st round. We are the only two plat 2 teams. Rest of teams are obviously mixed g3 p1 groups.
2. My team barely beats your team 500 to 400 and it only happens because we landed some good clutch play at end.
3. We watch the match ups each round and make sure to be aware of who is against who in each round.
4. When we go against some g3 p1 team in 2nd to final round, if it is a team who has won all of their matches and did NOT have to face your team, we can purposely half-throw and allow them to get to like 420-450 points against us before we win, so that their loss against us was not as bad as your loss against us.
5. Usually if you lost the 1st round and they went all the way to 2nd to last round and didn't lose as badly to use score wise, the Swiss format will almost always put them as the team who gets to try again in final round.

Pay attention to the scores of the teams in every round after I've told you this. You'll see a lot of stuff that doesn't make sense going on. You can tell when half-throws are going on, when some best of the best team is only winning 500 to 300 vs a g3 p1 team that your team just smashed 500 to 60.

I'm not saying Swiss algorithm couldn't be tweaked a bit. Just pointing this out to you in the event maybe you were seeing this stuff going on and didn't quote notice.

Edited December 24, 2021 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Genesis.5169]

2 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

 

Some teams actually half-throw in ATs to make sure they don't have to face you again in final round or sometimes just to troll you into a 3rd slot.

Example:

1. My team faces your team in 1st round. We are the only two plat 2 teams. Rest of teams are obviously mixed g3 p1 groups.
2. My team barely beats your team 500 to 400 and it only happens because we landed some good clutch play at end.
3. We watch the match ups each round and make sure to be aware of who is against who in each round.
4. When we go against some g3 p1 team in 2nd to final round, if it is a team who has won all of their matches and did NOT have to face your team, we can purposely half-throw and allow them to get to like 420-450 points against us before we win, so that their loss against us was not as bad as your loss against us.
5. Usually if you lost the 1st round and they went all the way to 2nd to last round and didn't lose as badly to use score wise, the Swiss format will almost always put them as the team who gets to try again in final round.

Pay attention to the scores of the teams in every round after I've told you this. You'll see a lot of stuff that doesn't make sense going on. You can tell when half-throws are going on, when some best of the best team is only winning 500 to 300 vs a g3 p1 team that your team just smashed 500 to 60.

I'm not saying Swiss algorithm couldn't be tweaked a bit. Just pointing this out to you in the event maybe you were seeing this stuff going on and didn't quote notice.

Is a g3 p1 team difficult or something?
Only guys who are worth anything in AT's ive seen is vaans team, ima g3 player and i'm far from a top end.

And im pretty sure his team is p2+ prolly even p3 averaged.

Edited December 24, 2021 by Genesis.5169

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

31 minutes ago, Genesis.5169 said:

Is a g3 p1 team difficult or something?
Only guys who are worth anything in AT's ive seen is vaans team, ima g3 player and i'm far from a top end.

And im pretty sure his team is p2+ prolly even p3 averaged.

I think you somehow misunderstood what I wrote.

I'm explaining how teams can cut-out other teams from getting a rematch in the final round.

I said nothing about g3 p1 teams being difficult, but rather how you can use them to elevate their score so you don't have to face other p2+ teams that are threatening.

[ArthurDent.9538]

4 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

 

Some teams actually half-throw in ATs to make sure they don't have to face you again in final round or sometimes just to troll you into a 3rd slot.

Example:

1. My team faces your team in 1st round. We are the only two plat 2 teams. Rest of teams are obviously mixed g3 p1 groups.
2. My team barely beats your team 500 to 400 and it only happens because we landed some good clutch play at end.
3. We watch the match ups each round and make sure to be aware of who is against who in each round.
4. When we go against some g3 p1 team in 2nd to final round, if it is a team who has won all of their matches and did NOT have to face your team, we can purposely half-throw and allow them to get to like 420-450 points against us before we win, so that their loss against us was not as bad as your loss against us.
5. Usually if you lost the 1st round and they went all the way to 2nd to last round and didn't lose as badly to use score wise, the Swiss format will almost always put them as the team who gets to try again in final round.

Pay attention to the scores of the teams in every round after I've told you this. You'll see a lot of stuff that doesn't make sense going on. You can tell when half-throws are going on, when some best of the best team is only winning 500 to 300 vs a g3 p1 team that your team just smashed 500 to 60.

I'm not saying Swiss algorithm couldn't be tweaked a bit. Just pointing this out to you in the event maybe you were seeing this stuff going on and didn't quote notice.

I get what your saying and any automated system will be at least somewhat exploitable by people without integrity (quite a large portion of this games high end pvp tbh), but the current one doesn't even need to be exploited it just doesn't make any sense in the first place.