Left-Handed Animations

[The Greyhawk.9107]

Well, this one's not going to stay open for long......

[Danikat.8537]

I'd like to have this option available too. I'm left-handed and while I don't find it confusing that my character is right-handed I'd like the option to change it.

But I don't think it's that easy. The one game I know of which added opposite animations is Twilight Princess when it was released on the Wii. That actually went the other way, in the Game cube version the player character is left-handed and they wanted to swap it because they thought motion controls with a left-handed character would be confusing for right-handed players (and didn't care about left-handed players presumably). They found the easiest way to do it was to mirror-image the entire game. They literally flipped everything, every character model and every map because it was easier than changing 1 character.

(I've also heard that Nintendo considered offering both in Skyward Sword, but found it was too expensive even doing it from the start of development so that one only has right-handed combat.)

The only game I know of which does offer it is Skyrim, and that's only because they let you dual wield or use a weapon and a spell and the player manually equips each and chooses the hand. The right hand is still marked 'main hand' and two-handed weapons are used right-handed. (I'm not sure about shields.) Edit: Shields can only be used in your left hand, so Skyrim characters can only be left-handed when dual wielding.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Danikat.8537

[Sobx.1758]

6 hours ago, TheLadyOfTheRings.9148 said:

I'll try to explain. OP is sharing an issue for them.

Yes -and they're claiming that the character holding "x weapon" in "y hand" somehow confuses them, which points at it having a meaningful and clear impact on playing the game. Meanwhile, as I've already explained before, for now I fail to see how that can confuse anyone, seeing how we're perfectly aware of not only what weapon we equip at which slot, but also we can see the skills we're using on out skill bar. As such, your initial response of "he said it's an issue so it is one!" is not responding to anything and does not explain how is this supposed to be confusing for anyone in this particular game.

Quote

I can't confirm if this is what they're saying, but from what I understood, they're asking for the option to make our character left-handed, meaning the off-hand weapon (e.g. shield) will be in their right-hand, and the main-hand weapon on the left-hand. OP isn't saying this is a huge issue and the world will end if nothing changes, it's just a personal issue they're sharing. 

I understand what he wrote. I was not asking for clarification on "what he wants", but instead for clarification on his reasoning or -in other words- what he claims is somehow problematic here. Here's the initial question I've asked with explanation for why I don't understand how this can be confusing for anyone:

On 12/24/2021 at 10:43 PM, Sobx.1758 said:

...how exactly are you getting disoriented by that? Not only you know what you've equipped, but you can also see your skill bar all the time you're using it.

Edited December 26, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[TheLadyOfTheRings.9148]

16 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Yes -and they're claiming that the character holding "x weapon" in "y hand" somehow confuses them, which points at it having a meaningful and clear impact on playing the game. Meanwhile, as I've already explained before, for now I fail to see how that can confuse anyone, seeing how we're perfectly aware of not only what weapon we equip at which slot, but also we can see the skills we're using on out skill bar. As such, your initial response of "he said it's an issue so it is one!" is not responding to anything and does not explain how is this supposed to be confusing for anyone in this particular game.

I understand what he wrote. I was not asking for clarification on "what he wants", but instead for clarification on his reasoning or -in other words- what he claims is somehow problematic here. Here's the initial question I've asked with explanation for why I don't understand how this can be confusing for anyone:

Well as you can imagine I can't read OP's mind nor know exactly how they experience the game, so I hope you don't expect ME, or anyone else other than OP, to explain that xD 

[Sobx.1758]

7 minutes ago, TheLadyOfTheRings.9148 said:

Well as you can imagine I can't read OP's mind nor know exactly how they experience the game, so I hope you don't expect ME, or anyone else other than OP, to explain that xD 

No and that just made the overprotective responses weird to me, since the question was directed at OP from the start. That said, I wouldn't have anything against other users' responses since that could still show me something I previously missed, but what I've got was nothing else than "he said it's an issue so it is!" -for me, that's not how it works at all and just because someone pretends there's an issue doesn't automatically make it an actual issue. 😉

Edited December 26, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[TheLadyOfTheRings.9148]

18 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

No and that just made the overprotective responses weird to me, since the question was directed at OP from the start. That said, I wouldn't have anything against other users' responses since that could still show me something I previously missed, but what I've got was nothing else than "he said it's an issue so it is!" -for me, that's not how it works at all and just because someone pretends there's an issue doesn't automatically make it an actual issue. 😉

I only said that because the way you wrote made it sound like because you didn't understand the issue it meant there was no issue at all, and while we still don't know exactly what the issue is, if OP feels an issue it's because there is an issue to them. That's what I meant 🙂 

[Sobx.1758]

21 minutes ago, TheLadyOfTheRings.9148 said:

I only said that because the way you wrote made it sound like because you didn't understand the issue it meant there was no issue at all, and while we still don't know exactly what the issue is, if OP feels an issue it's because there is an issue to them. That's what I meant 🙂 

And what I mean is just because I am able to come up with a made-up justification for non-existant problem (which, again, for now everything points at this thread being exactly that), it doesn't make it an actual issue "just because I said it's an issue". Which is why "he said it's an issue, so it is!" is misguided. 😉 

Edited December 27, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Me Kill You.9035]

I am very left-handed irl but I don’t really see how adding this option would change anything… most classes use a main and offhand weapon, so in any case one of those will be in your non-dominant… so even if they were swapped are you just never going to try and use your offhand, or only use two handed weapons?

 

 It’s just seems like a superficial solution to a problem that hardly makes sense when you think about it

[TheLadyOfTheRings.9148]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

And what I mean is just because I am able to come up with a made-up justification for non-existant problem (which, again, for now everything points at this thread being exactly that), it doesn't make it an actual issue "just because I said it's an issue". Which is why "he said it's an issue, so it is!" is misguided. 😉 

But even if it's not an "actual issue" and Anet won't change anything, we can still discuss things. These forums are to discuss, not to present board papers to Anet 😛  

[Sobx.1758]

17 minutes ago, TheLadyOfTheRings.9148 said:

But even if it's not an "actual issue" and Anet won't change anything, we can still discuss things. These forums are to discuss, not to present board papers to Anet 😛  

Yes, hence why I've asked the questions and why I don't understand the reason some people got so defensive about it, while still adding nothing on-topic 🤷‍♂️  Just assuming everything and everyone is correct by default isn't "discussing"; it's writing random sentences into the void.

Hopefully it is clear enough by now, so we can stop going in circles and finally get an actual answer instead. And if we still don't get any answers, "we" can stop pretending this is an actual issue just because someone used the word "issue" with 0 substance behind it 😉  

Edited December 27, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[TheLadyOfTheRings.9148]

3 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Hopefully it is clear enough by now, so we can stop going in circles and finally get an actual answer instead. And if we still don't get any answers, "we" can stop pretending this is an actual issue just because someone used the word "issue" with 0 substance behind it 😉  

Yes, I'd like to get more info on OP's perspective, since I find this topic very interesting and am curious about how exactly it's confusing to them. But until then I'll leave this topic. 

[faroguy.1407]

Ok, this was more heated than I expected.

For those who don't understand the issue here's an analogy:

Imagine you was walking along and suddenly realize that you are wearing a green shirt when you know that you don't like wearing green. And for a moment you don't remember choosing a green shirt and thought you were wearing blue this entire time.

The analogy isn't perfect, but that's kind of what it feels like.

 

Regarding keyboard use, I find that moving the camera with a mouse pales in complexity to using skills, moving, dodging, switching targets, and using toolbelt skills all roughly at the same time. The coordination and dexterity required for the keyboard seems higher than the mouse to me. Then again, being left-handed, I probably off-load more tasks to the keyboard than most people.

 

Finally, about this being a real "issue" or not, who are you to say whether it's an issue for me? I don't deny that the Wintersday JP has an issue with large characters because it doesn't detract from my experience. Please respect that I have a different gaming experience than you.

[Sobx.1758]

17 minutes ago, faroguy.1407 said:

Ok, this was more heated than I expected.

For those who don't understand the issue here's an analogy:

Imagine you was walking along and suddenly realize that you are wearing a green shirt when you know that you don't like wearing green. And for a moment you don't remember choosing a green shirt and thought you were wearing blue this entire time.

The analogy isn't perfect, but that's kind of what it feels like.

 

Regarding keyboard use, I find that moving the camera with a mouse pales in complexity to using skills, moving, dodging, switching targets, and using toolbelt skills all roughly at the same time. The coordination and dexterity required for the keyboard seems higher than the mouse to me. Then again, being left-handed, I probably off-load more tasks to the keyboard than most people.

Please drop off the copletely unrelated "analogies", when even you understand they're not too good right after typing them out. Respond specifically to "how you're getting disoriented by that?", when it's vastly faster and easier to -even accidentally, since it's in your vision all the time you're playing- see your skillbar than it is to zoom in to check the weapons your character holds in which hand. This just looks like a completely made up justification for the complaint.

 

tbh I don't even understand the point you were trying to make about the shirt. If we want to use that analogy to what this thread is about, then: if you don't like to use the weapon, then you don't equip it in the first place. How can you be surprised/confused by what you equipped by yourself? How can you equip the weaponset you dislike and then only be reminded you dislike it by... the hand the character holds it in? I don't get it at all. Please explain precisely without using unrelated analogies?

 

Quote

Finally, about this being a real "issue" or not, who are you to say whether it's an issue for me? I don't deny that the Wintersday JP has an issue with large characters because it doesn't detract from my experience. Please respect that I have a different gaming experience than you.

I don't see how this is relevant to this thread at all, but you're probably writing this because you've went to my profile to check what you could "go against". To be perfectly clear: I don't mind you having a different opinion about that, but if you do, go to the relevant thread and respond why you think what I said is incorrect, to which [spoiler alert 😛] I'll post a screenshot showing you how a large charr obstructs multiple other player character models. If you have something factual to go against that, then I really don't mind, please let me know in the relevant (wintersday JP) thread if that's what you want to do.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I think the OP feels a bit, maybe, disoriented like when one watches one doing something, say, like writing, in a mirror.  Just seems ...off, or backwards. 

[AgentMoore.9453]

39 minutes ago, faroguy.1407 said:

Please respect that I have a different gaming experience than you.

Thank you for coming back to try and explain further the issue you're having. Your original post did not warrant the negative, skeptical responses you received, and honestly you didn't owe anything further than what you already offered, which was 'I am getting tripped up by the right-handed orientation of attack animations because I am left-handed'. It was pretty simple to comprehend. If I pressed a 'punch' button in a game and my character kicked instead, I'd probably experience the same dissonance.

People not understanding or sharing your experience doesn't mean it's not valid, and posting your feedback on the official forum where it can be seen by devs is a good idea, even when it's about something that may not be widespread (which you also acknowledged in your first post). While making this kind of adjustment does seem unlikely 9 years into this game, I hope things like this are part of considerations for future games where systems are still being developed. Who knows, maybe GW3 will even have color blind mode?

I honestly wish I had some workarounds for you to use in the meantime, but I'm (no pun intended) coming up empty-handed.

[Danikat.8537]

Just curious: Does this bother you in other games, or only GW2?

There's very few 1st or 3rd person games where the player character is left-handed and even fewer which let you choose. (There's not many overall, but I assume it doesn't really matter if the game isn't in 1st or 3rd person.) I've always assumed left-handed gamers get used to it and stop noticing.

I'm left-handed but I'm also dyslexic which means I constantly mix up my left and right in all kinds of situations and constantly mirror image stuff in my mind. I assume that's part of why this doesn't bother me (the other part being I've played so many games with right-handed characters I'm used to it). I don't really notice that my characters weapons are the wrong way around, and when I picture them in my mind they are usually left-handed.

In games with a skill bar like GW2 I don't associate the skills with the hand the weapon is in. If I can place skills on the bar I put them in the order I expect to use them (from left to right) and for the last 8 years or so I've been using the number pad for skills in PC games, so the buttons don't line up with the skills on the bar anyway. Also I'm not normally watching my character's attack animations during combat because there's so much going on.

[Sobx.1758]

On 12/30/2021 at 12:40 AM, AgentMoore.9453 said:

Thank you for coming back to try and explain further the issue you're having. Your original post did not warrant the negative, skeptical responses you received, and honestly you didn't owe anything further than what you already offered, which was 'I am getting tripped up by the right-handed orientation of attack animations because I am left-handed'. It was pretty simple to comprehend. If I pressed a 'punch' button in a game and my character kicked instead, I'd probably experience the same dissonance.

For clarification, I'm specifically interested in his experience, since I -as a left handed person- am seemingly in the same situation as op and yet I still don't see how that would be supposed to make me confused. Or make me not remember what weapons I've equipped on my character, for that matter.

 

On 12/30/2021 at 12:03 AM, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

I think the OP feels a bit, maybe, disoriented like when one watches one doing something, say, like writing, in a mirror.  Just seems ...off, or backwards. 

...that's really not how that works. 🤷‍♂️ 

Edited December 31, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Westenev.5289]

Player utility aside, making a character change their dominant hand is meaningful character customisation. I'll always support character customisation. xD

[Linken.6345]

4 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

For clarification, I'm specifically interested in his experience, since I -as a left handed person- am seemingly in the same situation as op and yet I still don't see how that would be supposed to make me confused. Or make me not remember what weapons I've equipped on my character, for that matter.

Yea also left handed here and have no problem with the toons all being right handed.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

On 12/24/2021 at 2:40 PM, Khisanth.2948 said:

Considering the amount of reused animations they are using for EoD especs I would say there is 0% chance they would be willing to double their animation work load.

Could just take the easy way out and simply mirror the character model.

[Khisanth.2948]

27 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Could just take the easy way out and simply mirror the character model.

Do you have actual 3D animation experience? I don't but from the bits I've seen that doesn't seem like it would work considering they are still operating on something like a skeleton. If you mirror that it just turns into a model facing the wrong direction. This is not 2D animations where you can just flip it. If it is a single player game you could flip the whole game and change any text/dialog to switch directions

[ShadowCatz.8437]

On 12/25/2021 at 7:03 PM, Fueki.4753 said:

The confused emoji is just being abused as a downvote option. The vast majority of the people using it aren't actually confused.

or the had nothing else to contribute at all to discussion...and yellow are after all much more "brighter" colour then "like" that have a blue background and "Thanks" that have a purple background when one use "Guild Wars 2 Dark Theme" background to watch this forum.

To the topis in it self:

What OP are asking can be several different things as in what kind of telegraphs from animation should a character show when it is reversed? How does this impact in PvP and WvW setting when some skills can be indicated before they are being used like Elementalist riser their right hand while they charge up their heavy damage skills (Meteor) as an example?

Will it still be easy to know what skill another player will be using when it is possible to change which hand that have what weapon equipped to know from telegraphs that a larger attack will be soon firing off (so you can dodge or use counter skills)?

Is it possible that some animation even will bug out as we have already bugs related to animation that haven't been fixed like some skills (including mounts like Springer that can make you get stuck in certain places in game when one dismount)?

My argument isn't against having a toggle by itself, but one also have to remember that what seem easy to change can have much larger impact on how game works and how player can use and abuse thing when they have been introduced into game.

Mirror animation would be one possible solution where same animation just are being mirrored instead of remade, but would that look good or work in every place in game (story/PvP/WvW/Squad/Party and other game modes)?

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

19 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

Do you have actual 3D animation experience? I don't but from the bits I've seen that doesn't seem like it would work considering they are still operating on something like a skeleton. If you mirror that it just turns into a model facing the wrong direction. This is not 2D animations where you can just flip it. If it is a single player game you could flip the whole game and change any text/dialog to switch directions

I'm well aware that just because the easy way out is mirroring the model and animations doesn't mean it's easy to do, lol.

[Khisanth.2948]

6 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

I'm well aware that just because the easy way out is mirroring the model and animations doesn't mean it's easy to do, lol.

So the easy way is not easy?

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

20 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

So the easy way is not easy?

It's (Likely) relatively easy compared to other options.