What is plaguing the meta

[vilesoldier.9826]

On 1/11/2022 at 8:46 PM, Beast Sos.1457 said:

The issue is the combat system was built around power dmg. LoS, blocking, invul, power dmg immunity skills. The only thing there is for conditions is cleanse. That itself shows that condi dmg was not and should not be meant for pvp in gw2. Or any pvp games for that matter.

Wow. 

That's wild that condition transfer, resistance, resolution, healing that is more effective with more conditions, light aura, dark aura, conditions consumed to give resources (ie Spectral Walk), Rune of Leadership, even reduced condition duration rune effects, all just up and vanished.

 

People in forums will really just say anything to get the game exactly how they and only they want. Anything at all.

Edited January 15, 2022 by GeneralBM.5781

[Spellhunter.9675]

5 hours ago, Beast Sos.1457 said:

Its funny how people mention that meta builds are more power but dont realize why thats the case. Most of these meta builds are built off team synergy which is highly unlikely to take place in a game like gw2 where you can hypothetically get 5 supports on one team or 5 duelist builds. There is nothing in place stopping that from happening.

Its funny how people mention that condition build are too strong. But in gw2 you can hypothetically get 5 power builds in enemy team. There is nothing in place stopping that from happening. And this is highly likely to happen.

 

  

5 hours ago, Beast Sos.1457 said:

Thats not the main issue though. The issue is the combat system was built around power dmg. LoS, blocking, invul, power dmg immunity skills. The only thing there is for conditions is cleanse. That itself shows that condi dmg was not and should not be meant for pvp in gw2. Or any pvp games for that matter. 

The main issue is people who are don't know basic mechanics of the game or are too biased became too vocal.

[FarmBotXD.1430]

7 hours ago, Beast Sos.1457 said:

Its funny how people mention that meta builds are more power but dont realize why thats the case. Most of these meta builds are built off team synergy which is highly unlikely to take place in a game like gw2 where you can hypothetically get 5 supports on one team or 5 duelist builds. There is nothing in place stopping that from happening. Of course its highly unlikely but there is nothing in place on the technical side to stop it from happening. When you have a synergized comp, conditions because less potent in team fights. Thats not the case with the game. When your team is unorganized, with a random comp, conditions takes over. The same reason why you can't run condition builds in zerg fights. They will all get cleansed. A support will be able to cleanse and keep there power build teammates healthy in team fights, making conditions useless.  

 

Condition builds became less viable in organized play but that is not how the ranking system works in gw2. Thats not the main issue though. The issue is the combat system was built around power dmg. LoS, blocking, invul, power dmg immunity skills. The only thing there is for conditions is cleanse. That itself shows that condi dmg was not and should not be meant for pvp in gw2. Or any pvp games for that matter.  

 

If you get 2 players on the same skill lvl, give one a condition build and one a power build. Condition wins 90% of the time. 

your entire argument is team synergy makes conditions bad.
if that was the case, every side-noder would be condition based as they mainly remain 1v1.
Oh wait, almost all side noders are power based, except for the weaver.
And every roamer would be power based as their role is to outnumber, oh wait, every single roamer is a power based spec.
Hmm, your argument seems to be very kitten sir

[Arheundel.6451]

On 1/11/2022 at 8:18 PM, Morwath.9817 said:

 

It's not like I disagree, but... I kinda think dodge is far  worse invention for GW (GW1 to GW2 transition) than stealth and jumping puzzles in sPvP. Entire "just dodge" argument is pretty bad, because demanding average player to memorize ALL animations, then have perfect reaction time is a lot. Then we're left with gimick hard hitting abilities like True Shot, just because they can be dodged, but average player will always struggle against those, even if top players will have no issues against such classes/builds in tournaments.

Nobody forces players to go PvP, what more nobody expect you(generalizing new player, not you as you in particular) to put maximum effort if you don't want to, everybody is free to put as much effort as they like BUT....people should be ready to accept the consequences of their choices.

A new player comes and states he can't be bothered to train himself in recognizing skill animation, kiting and more....no problem there, everybody is free to do with their time what they want BUT ...if you put as much effort as a bronze player, you new player will sit in bronze! you new player will accept it! and you new player won't be entitled to discuss about balance!

Like in real life...you get rewarded for as much effort you put in learning new skills, you cannot go out there and expect to be paid as much as a doctor while working as a supermarket cashier.

Back in GW1, people would train for weeks...months, to learn all the tricks about fake casting, shield equip mid animation, body block and more and to be able to play 4-5 professions was a requirement, here in GW2, somebody plays barely 100hrs and already expect to be top rank while playing a single profession and this was the issue which arised during Season 2, at the time when the devs still used the non-mixing matchmaking and new players would not start from 1200 internal rank.

I made a "joke" thread suggesting Anet to remove PvP and just leave WvW, that's the right way to go for MMOs in 2022 and moving forward. The current generation of players hasn't got the will or patience to get results by improving...everything is now and without delays, the fact that MMOs are going for realm vs realm, @that Grouch stated how WvW will become the focus of Gw2 moving forward...proves me right, this is not the same generation of players who enjoyed games on the same line of Everquest....

P.S yes...MMOs will ofc have OP aspects on every profession on rotation but the meaning of OP has lost any meaning. OP/broken doesn't equal to a class beating you, OP/broken means that something plays out in a distorted way respect to its intended purpose, a class being a challenge for you to beat is absolutely normal...anybody who does not look for a challenge, should not go PvP

Edited January 12, 2022 by Arheundel.6451

[Morwath.9817]

On 1/12/2022 at 10:41 PM, Arheundel.6451 said:

Nobody forces players to go PvP, what more nobody expect you(generalizing new player, not you as you in particular) to put maximum effort if you don't want to, everybody is free to put as much effort as they like BUT....people should be ready to accept the consequences of their choices.

A new player comes and states he can't be bothered to train himself in recognizing skill animation, kiting and more....no problem there, everybody is free to do with their time what they want BUT ...if you put as much effort as a bronze player, you new player will sit in bronze! you new player will accept it! and you new player won't be entitled to discuss about balance!

Like in real life...you get rewarded for as much effort you put in learning new skills, you cannot go out there and expect to be paid as much as a doctor while working as a supermarket cashier.

Back in GW1, people would train for weeks...months, to learn all the tricks about fake casting, shield equip mid animation, body block and more and to be able to play 4-5 professions was a requirement, here in GW2, somebody plays barely 100hrs and already expect to be top rank while playing a single profession and this was the issue which arised during Season 2, at the time when the devs still used the non-mixing matchmaking and new players would not start from 1200 internal rank.

I made a "joke" thread suggesting Anet to remove PvP and just leave WvW, that's the right way to go for MMOs in 2022 and moving forward. The current generation of players hasn't got the will or patience to get results by improving...everything is now and without delays, the fact that MMOs are going for realm vs realm, @that Grouch stated how WvW will become the focus of Gw2 moving forward...proves me right, this is not the same generation of players who enjoyed games on the same line of Everquest....

P.S yes...MMOs will ofc have OP aspects on every profession on rotation but the meaning of OP has lost any meaning. OP/broken doesn't equal to a class beating you, OP/broken means that something plays out in a distorted way respect to its intended purpose, a class being a challenge for you to beat is absolutely normal...anybody who does not look for a challenge, should not go PvP

 

What I meant by dodge being awful for GW2, is it makes balancing a nightmare as its 1s invul, accessible by any class in any build with any weapon choices, utilities or traits. For example, DH is superior choice against average player, who will fail to dodge Trueshots, at same time DH is inferior choice against more experienced players for exacly same (but opposite) reason. 

Edited January 14, 2022 by Morwath.9817

[Avatar.3568]

On 1/12/2022 at 12:52 AM, FarmBotXD.1430 said:

the fact that vast majority is incapable of using it is not on the mechanic but players being generally bad in this game.

This is the biggest problem in the game. That the game is more loosing than gaining players will probably only increase this problem. 

On 1/12/2022 at 4:04 AM, Kuma.1503 said:

Condi Staff Mirage, Burn Weaver, Condi Druid. 

1. Mirage dies to thief, and every team has a thief (and mostly a rev for bonus meme dmg) 

2. Weaver Dies to warrior and to any match up when a  thief +'s

3. Condi Druid kekw

On 1/12/2022 at 4:04 AM, Kuma.1503 said:

 Burn Guard, Condi Holo, and Condi Thief. 

Outside of condi holo, nothing of that is rly good

[FarmBotXD.1430]

On 1/12/2022 at 3:04 AM, Kuma.1503 said:

The thing about this statement is that, while true, it's a bit disingenuous.

Why is it that condi builds generally win vs power builds?

To answer that, lets look at some of the most prominent condi builds in the game. With the exception of Necro, which is... an outlier in nearly every category, Condi builds are almost exclusively fall into one of two categories. 

Side Node Bunker

Condi Staff Mirage, Burn Weaver, Condi Druid. 

Or bursty 1v1ers/ Roamers 

Burn Guard, Condi Holo, and Condi Thief. 

What all of these specs have in common is that they excel in small scale fights and fall off in large scale fights. All of them either lack group pressure, or fall off hard when the enemy team has a support. 

It doesn't matter if a burn guard can burst you with burning, if the support instantly cleanses it. Then what is the burn guard left to do but twiddle his thumbs and wait for his cooldowns to come back? Only for it to get cleansed again.

Power builds don't have this issue. Thats why most teamfight builds (with the exception of Necro because it is explicitly built to teamfight) are power oriented.

Power Reaper, Power Holo, Power Herald, Power DH (well timed dragon's Maws can win fights), ect. 

One mark of a teamfight DPS is that you're going to give up some amount of personal survivability in order to maximize your damage output. The more pressure you can put on the opposing team, the more value you can generate. As a result, these builds are typically lacking in either stability, stunbreaks, or cleansing. They can 1v1 thanks to thier high damage output, but it's not their main job. 

So what happens when a power build fights a condi build?

One is generally built to teamfight, the other is generally built for 1v1s and small skirmishes.

Naturally the 1v1 oriented build would win.

 

So yes, when a power build fights a condi build, the condi build usually wins. And that is how it should be. 

most of the builds you have mentioned are kitten, and as I said, they are worse then their power counterparts.
Condi druid is kitten, and in 5k games or however many I have played I dont think I have seen more then 2 of them ( one of them was using staff while being condi so I dont think he was sober to begin with )
power DH > burn guard, in both mobility, damage and survivability. Better in every way.
d/p > cthief, C thief has to be absurd in damage to even stand a chance to d/p. after the nerfs put it into reasonable categore its inferior to power in every way.
cant speak for cmirage, after the stupid chaos and staff " rework " it was tragedy waiting to happen, never seen one in action tho so I will refrain from making comments on it.
Never seen a single condi holo, and why would people play condi when power is so broken?
Burn weaver as always remains an a one off that actually works. Not due to conditions but due to insane sustain it has, making it immortal in 1v1, and decent in escaping 1v2.