"""Master of weaponry""" (lol)

[Zekent.3652]

More like masters of *oudated* weaponry:

Greatsword: it's 1 of the best warrior weapons, but still doesn't honors the "masters of weaponry tittle":
-Really short burst range, the slice animation is bigger than the hit range really is, especially on charrs and norns.
-The burst is the only real dmg, making it very vulnerable to aegis and blinds.
-GS2 is too CC dependant (and this weapon doesnt even have a cc lol) , especially for that short CD.
-GS3 the only evade in this game that have a precast.
-GS4 not a bad skill, but still too telegraphed.
-GS5 we all know it, the target being literally 1 feet close, but suddenly goes to the other side of the map lol, just fix that bug.

Gunsaber: since it's gonna be the main bladesworn weapon, it really lacks on defensive resources, the only defensive thing is a 1s reflect lol, like if warrior doesnt lacks on dmg mitigation.

Now, compare those 2 greatswords with ranger's gs:
-Mobility (yeah, i know, warrior have that too)
-CC
-A NON cc dependant GS2, able to move while casting it, also complements well with the cc of the weapon, reseting it, even if its not cc dependant.
-A block, dmg mitigation, is also a cc and an evade, if you proc it.

Conclusion: GS ranger is an actual example for a "master of weaponry" tittle, it's smooth, not outdated, more interactive and complements itself really good.

And about the other warrior weapons, yall know it, a lot of them are really needy of dev's love.

If they said that warrior is the "master of weaponry" just because it's the class that can have most of weapons, well, then... that's depressing lol, and also, ranger is pretty close on that too.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Zizekent.2398

[Hotride.2187]

I think you only have to compare ranger GS 4 block to warrior shield 5 block; you don't need anything else to guess the state of the game.

[oscuro.9720]

Ranger GS is the model by which gunsabre should be balanced imo.

An example;Blooming fire is similar to maul in terms of its function (long cast, just-damage attack), but has less range, less damage, and less utility (vuln on maul), with roughly equivalent cool downs (2 charges w/ a 10 second recharge vs 6 seconds). 

Blooming fire is, imo, a perfect example of why Bladesworn underperforms. It’s just underpowered relative to the analogous weapons and specs on other classes. Another example;

Break step is a 450 range dash. Swoop is a 1000 range dash, has 3 times the damage with a much higher multiplier, and an evade frame. Yes, break step is an ammo skill, but that does not even close to make up the difference between these two skills. 
If Anet wants gunsabre to be a foundational weapon for Bladesworn, tailoring it’s performance to be similar to (or in excess of, since it’s non-optional) ranger GS would be a very good target imo. Changes such as;

Blooming fire has more damage (on par with maul)

Artillery Slash applies weakness instead of cripple

Cyclone trigger is a block instead of projectile-only

Break step is 600 range and either gives aegis after, or has an evade frame (or immobilizes (1s) foes hit by the initial cast)
These would put gunsaber hopefully closer to ranger great sword, making a utility set with strong power pressure, making it flexible and useful. 

Also make gun saber stowable

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Yeah... Mace MH and OH, Sword MH and OH, Dagger MH and OH, Hammer, and GS all need some TLC.

TBH GS just needs Rush's jankiness fixed and for N00bBlades to be unrooted or for the channel time to be sped up to 2.5s. Hammer needs it's hard CCs to do damage again even if a trait is required and it will be fine. The rest of the above mentioned weapons need wholesale reworks.

Rifle needs some higher base damage on all the skills or for Crack Shot to be 10% increased damage on ALL rifle skills not just the AA, and a Power/Expertise/Precision/Ferocity set to make it fully shine.  For real, a PEPF set work be amazing with rifle, you'll get so many salty whispers if that stat comes out in EoD if you run rifle with it.

Longbow needs Fan of Fire to get a 4th arrow and tighter spread, for Smoldering Arrow to leave a 2s smoke field and pulsing blind, and for Combustive Shot to pulse every second rather than every 3s. That and for Crack Shot to apply burn on ALL LB attacks not just the AA. Ditto for  Harpoon gun and it's bleed for all that is worth.

Beyond that Bladesworn needs MH pistol or Dual pistols and for Gunsabre to get a short duration block on skill 4,  an evade on skill 5, higher damage on skills 2 and 3, and for Dragon Trigger to be accessible from the other weapon set.

Mace: Make Counter Blow a full block for the whole duration and let the counter attack be a flipover once you block. Speed up the AA chain by 0.33s. Crushing Blow needs to  be a 1/4s cast. Tremor needs to function like Rev's CoR and not be a projectile. Skull Crack needs a small leap to it, not much though.

Sword: Unroot Flurry. Give Final Thrust 3 stacks of bleed baseline. Speed up Impale's projectile. Make Rip face the target when it is cast. Riposte should function as I describe for Counter Blow above, which is how the Ranger GS block  functions.

Dagger: Give some more damage to F1, and the AA chain. Increase the base damage on Wastrel's Ruin or make it cleave, either or would work. Make Blade Storm a ground targeted AoE at 900 range that also rips boons per strike, otherwise functions as it does now.

Doing all that would bring it out of 2013 and into 2022.

[Jzaku.9765]

The "Master of Weapons" moniker backfired hard on Warrior.

In the end, the number of actual weapon skills you have is the same as everyone else, so having a ton of weapon options just lead to the skill design team distributing "good skills" across all the weapons and filling the rest of the skill slots with filler weak ones.

Realistically, the way the other classes' weapons are designed (having few weapons but all their skills are really good) is way better. 

Worse, Warrior weapons tends to be one-dimensional because of this. You pointed out a really key example with Warr GS not having a setup for it's own 100Blades. They imagined a class fantasy where you would set up your cc with Hammer or something then finished it off with GS - but that unfairly taxes your weapon swap (a resource like any other) and is what makes Discipline so mandatory. 

Edited December 26, 2021 by Jzaku.9765

[Nova.4608]

100Blades has to be the one, if not THE, most stupid weapon ability in the entire game. Difficult to set up properly and no payoff whatsoever.

I've honestly got no idea why it's a thing still. It's a relic from 2013 and it shows, but then again, so is the entire warrior class

Edited December 26, 2021 by Nova.4608

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Nova.4608 said:

100Blades has to be the one, if not THE, most stupid weapon ability in the entire game. Difficult to set up properly and no payoff whatsoever.

I've honestly got no idea why it's a thing still. It's a relic from 2013 and it shows, but then again, so is the entire warrior class

Wait until you realize that you are better off just auto attacking if the last strike of 100Blades fails to hit.

[Zekent.3652]

On 12/25/2021 at 4:55 PM, Hotride.2187 said:

I think you only have to compare ranger GS 4 block to warrior shield 5 block; you don't need anything else to guess the state of the game.

Yeah, gs ranger is; same block duration, more interactive, dodge, CC, shorter CD.

Buy yeah, "warrior is fine, doesnt needs to improve".

Edited December 27, 2021 by Zizekent.2398

[Hotride.2187]

1 hour ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

Yeah, gs ranger is; same duration block, more interactive, dodge, cc, shorter duration.

Buy yeah, "warrior is fine, doesnt needs to improve".

Shorter CD is a very generous way of putting it. In wvw the standard SB build has 12 CD on the block, where I sit on 30 sec CD as war. They can literally block on each GS swap.

But at least a lot of rangers are not particularly good, because their profession does their work for them 🙂

Edited December 27, 2021 by Hotride.2187

[Zekent.3652]

9 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Shorter duration is a very generous way of putting it. In wvw the standard SB build has 12 CD on the block, where I sit on 30 sec CD as war. They can literally block on each GS swap.

But at least a lot of rangers are not particularly good, because their profession does their work for them 🙂

I meant, shorter CD, the duration is the same, that's depressing, and be careful saying that ranger is an easy class, because they already have a 3 or 4 pages essay trying to explain why ranger is hard lol.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

6 minutes ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

I meant, shorter CD, the duration is the same, that's depressing, and be careful saying that ranger is an easy class, because they already have a 3 or 4 pages essay trying to explain why ranger is hard lol.

Its hard because LB 2 Pew Pew leads to forum QQ.

[Hotride.2187]

17 minutes ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

I meant, shorter CD, the duration is the same, that's depressing, and be careful saying that ranger is an easy class, because they already have a 3 or 4 pages essay trying to explain why ranger is hard lol.

I meant shorter CD, not duration; sorry.

As for ranger, I'm sure its not easy to play well - same as any profession. But as far as power builds go, SB is definitely the best result for low effort (reaper being close behind it).

[Mesket.5728]

Maybe that's the problem... we got vanilla versions of all good weapons and got "updated" versions (weapon skills) of Torch? Daggers? Pistol off hand? 

 

[Zekent.3652]

On 12/27/2021 at 4:28 PM, Mesket.5728 said:

Maybe that's the problem... we got vanilla versions of all good weapons and got "updated" versions (weapon skills) of Torch? Daggers? Pistol off hand? 

 

I wish they make berserker an actual condi spec and fix arms, not being literally the worst trait in the game, its like by far the worse version of the firearms trait.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

I wish they make berserker an actual condi spec and fix arms, not being literally the worst trait in the game, its like by far the worse version of the firearms trait.

It's not like we haven't been giving them ideas for free or anything...

Honestly, making Burst Precision persist based on adrenaline used, giving a condo proc on hit versus disabled foes on Unsuspecting Foe, and torment on crit on Wounding Precision would go a long way to making Arms better.

[Mesket.5728]

16 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

I wish they make berserker an actual condi spec and fix arms, not being literally the worst trait in the game, its like by far the worse version of the firearms trait.

I really wish they dont. Its not Bersekers fault they lack ideas for the new espec and i would hate to be forced to play bladesworn just to play a power build.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

1 hour ago, Mesket.5728 said:

I really wish they dont. Its not Bersekers fault they lack ideas for the new espec and i would hate to be forced to play bladesworn just to play a power build.

Agreed. Berserker should be able to be power or condi (or ideally both at the same time--see rune of the Berserker). DPS should be its thing, whatever the flavor.

 

Bladesworn really needs a defined role that is distinct from Berserker.  Doubling down on the mid range combat (pistol main hand, anyone?) Would really help with that.

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Midrange combat, with proper support. Electric Fence and BPB kind of help with that for area control at mid range. If Combat Stimulant and Flow Stabilizer (with flow stabilizer going back to stability mind you) were AoE boon applications you would see some kind of boon support build become viable along with FGJ.

It would still need better traits to support a support role though, like making the barrier trait AoE, making Immortal Dragon heal in the area would be another.

[Zekent.3652]

9 hours ago, Mesket.5728 said:

I really wish they dont. Its not Bersekers fault they lack ideas for the new espec and i would hate to be forced to play bladesworn just to play a power build.

I meant, of course without removing the power variant, the condi variant just needs more resources outside of berserk form, the condi dmg is literally just the burst and fire field.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

1 hour ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

I meant, of course without removing the power variant, the condi variant just needs more resources outside of berserk form, the condi dmg is literally just the burst and fire field.

Yeah that's true. That's my dream for ANet to rework (or even just tweak) sword and Mace so they provide better condi pressure. Sword could be massively improved with just a few changes (unrooting and/or speeding up flurry, reduce cast time of final thrust and do 3 stacks of bleed when target >50%, and make riposte a flip over skill (2s block, them riposte if you block an attack)). Mace would need more of a rework. But in any event, having 2 melee condi weapons would be awesome for warrior in general and condizerker in particular.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I know the drive for Mace to be condi is based on the Primal Burst, but you'd have to throw in a lot more confusion for it to work thematically.

Burn wouldn't make sense for core to do on mace, and Rev already has torment. Poison also doesn't make since on core warrior mace. Bleed kind of does with Body Blow, but that should be changed to be strike damage.

But this gets to two things I've been championing for a while.

1. Make mace AA chain faster.
2. Make Unsuspecting Foe inflict confusion whenever you strike a CC'd foe in addition to the critical strike increase.

Since Confusion is on the primal burst this would mesh up well. Mace/Mace would fuel the CC requirement and you'd be able to use a faster AA chain to  keep confusion on a target, though Mace/Axe would be best for that.

I can see a condi sword/torch + mace/axe build working there. Flames of War -> BC -> WA ->Skull Grinder -> DS -> Pummel Strike -> swap -> Flaming Flurry. You'd have lots of burn,  confusion and bleed in there if Body Blow is kept as condi.

 

[jaif.3518]

This topic really speaks to me; while I think all class forums, this one include, exaggerate how bad off the class is, I do think the "master of weapons" theme missed the mark.

I'd really love to see each of the original trait lines open a unique, powerful weapon, something like:

defense - tower shield

strength - flail

discipline - halberd

tactics - crossbow

arms - javelin

I know this is way too much work for the team and won't happen, but it really would have been thematic if warriors had access to specialist weapons that nobody else got.

[Ovark.2514]

Give GS 3 a longer precast please. That, or make it charge-able so that if you don't charge it, it  does little damage but if you have a long precast it does good damage

[Hotride.2187]

On 1/11/2022 at 1:46 AM, Ovark.2514 said:

Give GS 3 a longer precast please. That, or make it charge-able so that if you don't charge it, it  does little damage but if you have a long precast it does good damage

That would ruin the one useful skill on GS, aside from the burst?

[Mungrul.9358]

I think I've mentioned it before, but there's another reason "Master of Weapons" feels watered down.

This may have been true on release, with Warrior having access to more weapons and combinations than other professions (albeit limited to 2 weapon switches like everyone else, so you're immediately dealing with a profession feature that in reality is a bit crap compared to others).

 

But with each subsequent release introducing a new elite specialisation for each profession and providing another weapon for them,  one of warrior's "advantages" (lol) gets further diluted.

 

I understand they didn't want to go full-on dual-classing or skill pool expansion, but elite specs seem critically flawed to me as a means to meaningfully expand the game.

 

But yeah, I'm also in agreement regarding Ranger, especially Soulbeast. It's ridiculous how much better it is with Greatsword than Warrior, and how OP Counterattack is when compared to Shield Stance, Counter Blow or Riposte.

Playing my Ranger recently has definitely been EZ mode compared to warrior.

Same goes for Guardian, Engineer, Necro and Revenant; I took them all through finally unlocking all of their elite specs prior to EoD dropping, and all had a much easier time than my Warrior.

Mesmer, Ele and Thief require probably as much caution and profession knowledge as Warrior, but still have very easy-to-play builds that can trivialise content, which Warrior simply doesn't have full stop.