"""Master of weaponry""" (lol)

[Ovark.2514]

9 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

That would ruin the one useful skill on GS, aside from the burst?

Is this a question? If so, no, it would not ruin the skill. The change would increase the skill ceiling of warrior and make the class feel more honorable.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 minutes ago, Ovark.2514 said:

Is this a question? If so, no, it would not ruin the skill. The change would increase the skill ceiling of warrior and make the class feel more honorable.

I'm going to stop you right there, because there already is a ceiling and does feel honorable, its those other classes that need more honor.

[Geoff Fey.1035]

1 hour ago, Ovark.2514 said:

The change would increase the skill ceiling of warrior and make the class feel more honorable.

I don't really understand what you mean by "honorable"; there's literally no profession that is "honorable".

Firebrands burn their victims to death, Necromancers feast on life force, Mesmers shatter minds, Rangers riddle you from range with impunity, Revenants force the spirits of the dead to fight for them, Engineers turn progress into death machines, Thieves.... exist, and Elementalists call for res.

On a more serious tack: what are you legitimately asking for with regards to Warrior? 

[Ovark.2514]

40 minutes ago, Geoff Fey.1035 said:

I don't really understand what you mean by "honorable"; there's literally no profession that is "honorable".

Firebrands burn their victims to death, Necromancers feast on life force, Mesmers shatter minds, Rangers riddle you from range with impunity, Revenants force the spirits of the dead to fight for them, Engineers turn progress into death machines, Thieves.... exist, and Elementalists call for res.

On a more serious tack: what are you legitimately asking for with regards to Warrior? 

By 'honorable' I mean that it has telegraphs that are easily learnable by other players and have sufficient time to dodge/block/etc. MOST of the warrior is incredibly honorable. The list of skills which are not are: GS3 (because the animation is very fast for the amount of damage it does, especially against a wall), Ax 2 (Because it is similarly disproportionate between the damage dealt and the animation quickness), and breaching strike/aura slicer (for having the same animation). There might be others but these come to mind.

[Ovark.2514]

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I'm going to stop you right there, because there already is a ceiling and does feel honorable, its those other classes that need more honor.

Fair, it is far more honorable than all other classes; which is kinda funny when you think about the fact that guards have a traitline called Honor.

[Geoff Fey.1035]

@Ovark.2514 ... So by honorable you mean "easy to counter"...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, back on topic.

[Ovark.2514]

9 minutes ago, Geoff Fey.1035 said:

@Ovark.2514 ... So by honorable you mean "easy to counter"...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, back on topic.

Yes. Every class should be easy to counter given sufficient understanding.

[oscuro.9720]

5 hours ago, Ovark.2514 said:

By 'honorable' I mean that it has telegraphs that are easily learnable by other players and have sufficient time to dodge/block/etc. MOST of the warrior is incredibly honorable. The list of skills which are not are: GS3 (because the animation is very fast for the amount of damage it does, especially against a wall), Ax 2 (Because it is similarly disproportionate between the damage dealt and the animation quickness), and breaching strike/aura slicer (for having the same animation). There might be others but these come to mind.

Breaching strike and aura slicer have different animations…

[Ovark.2514]

11 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Breaching strike and aura slicer have different animations…

They are incredibly similar as to not be differentiable in the instant you need to decide whether to dodge or not.

[Hotride.2187]

On 1/12/2022 at 11:25 PM, Ovark.2514 said:

Is this a question? If so, no, it would not ruin the skill. The change would increase the skill ceiling of warrior and make the class feel more honorable.

Ah yes, so I can feel honorable and superior as the engi that just took half of my hp with one grenade barrage (and downed me) drops the stomp giro and continues on its way. How about no.

[Cuks.8241]

GS2 : decrease activation time so it doesnt feel as clunky. Reduce the number of strikes to 4, increase the dps and normalize dmg over all 4 strikes. Give it 2 charges but increase the charge CD accordingly if the overall pve rotation dps get too high.

GS4 and 5 decrease activation time. 

[Mungrul.9358]

Forgive me if it sounds too crazy... but what if core Warrior had three weapon swap slots instead of the two that every other profession has?

As an example to keep it simple for the purpose of understanding, Greatsword, Hammer and Longbow instead of just Greatsword and Longbow.

 

That to me would highlight Warrior being "Master of Weapons" and give them a definite unique benefit without being too OP.

You could then change F1-F3 to weapon swaps and F4 to Burst.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Forgive me if it sounds too crazy... but what if core Warrior had three weapon swap slots instead of the two that every other profession has?

As an example to keep it simple for the purpose of understanding, Greatsword, Hammer and Longbow instead of just Greatsword and Longbow.

 

That to me would highlight Warrior being "Master of Weapons" and give them a definite unique benefit without being too OP.

You could then change F1-F3 to weapon swaps and F4 to Burst.

F1 is burst. Don't move it, see Bladesworn feedback thread for reasons why.

But to the 3 weapons F2 could  be used to swap to set 3 with '`' being used for swap from set 1 and 2. Hitting F2 moves to the previous set. 

set 1 -> ` -> set 2
set 1 -> F2 -> set 3 -> F2 -> set 1
set 2 -> F2 -> set 3 -> F2 -> set 2
set 1 -> F2 -> set 3 -> ` -> set 2
set 2 -> F2 -> set 3 -> ` -> set 1

That way it gives you more control over what set you go to, and the E-Specs would naturally get rid of F2 for "Tradeoff" reasons.

[Mungrul.9358]

Aye, you're probably right regarding keeping F1 for burst (although I rebind everything myself to better suit my finger positions, so burst is on a side-button of my mouse 😄 ).

 

But I was thinking keeping sets statically assigned, so for example:

F2: Set 1

F3: Set 2

F4: Set 3

 

That way, you could change to any set from any set. A bit like Elementalist attunements.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

17 minutes ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Aye, you're probably right regarding keeping F1 for burst (although I rebind everything myself to better suit my finger positions, so burst is on a side-button of my mouse 😄 ).

 

But I was thinking keeping sets statically assigned, so for example:

F2: Set 1

F3: Set 2

F4: Set 3

 

That way, you could change to any set from any set. A bit like Elementalist attunements.

Yeah but then you run into problems with the especs. What you are proposing is a new core mechanic, so doing it like I described meshes better with the especs as they would lose that mechanic. Moot point though, Anet isn't going to do that.

[Geoff Fey.1035]

@Mungrul.9358 Rather than having an F# burst button for each weapon or 3 weapon swaps, there's been some discussion about the Arms "Dual-Wielding" being moved to Discipline and providing an F2 burst..

Currently, it gives an attack speed bonus that's..... terrible (and doesn't stack with Quickness)

The main suggestion I'm seeing is giving Warriors an F2 skill for the offhand weapon. It'd promote getting people away from using Greatsword and add additional utility to our kit without causing too much of a core design (and cascading Elite) issue like @Lan Deathrider.5910 said.

Alternatively, why not take a page from Revenant's "Song of the Mists" and have it so that either upon weapon swap or upon burst (one or the other), depending on your offhand weapon (no effect with 2-handed), Dual-Wielding provides an additional effect/attack. Could even take a page from Bladesworn's "Unseen Sword" trait and have it so that when you weapon swap, depending on the off-hand weapon it makes an attack?

Edited January 14, 2022 by Geoff Fey.1035

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 1/12/2022 at 7:18 AM, Mungrul.9358 said:

I think I've mentioned it before, but there's another reason "Master of Weapons" feels watered down.

This may have been true on release, with Warrior having access to more weapons and combinations than other professions (albeit limited to 2 weapon switches like everyone else, so you're immediately dealing with a profession feature that in reality is a bit crap compared to others).

 

But with each subsequent release introducing a new elite specialisation for each profession and providing another weapon for them,  one of warrior's "advantages" (lol) gets further diluted.

 

I understand they didn't want to go full-on dual-classing or skill pool expansion, but elite specs seem critically flawed to me as a means to meaningfully expand the game.

 

But yeah, I'm also in agreement regarding Ranger, especially Soulbeast. It's ridiculous how much better it is with Greatsword than Warrior, and how OP Counterattack is when compared to Shield Stance, Counter Blow or Riposte.

Playing my Ranger recently has definitely been EZ mode compared to warrior.

Same goes for Guardian, Engineer, Necro and Revenant; I took them all through finally unlocking all of their elite specs prior to EoD dropping, and all had a much easier time than my Warrior.

Mesmer, Ele and Thief require probably as much caution and profession knowledge as Warrior, but still have very easy-to-play builds that can trivialise content, which Warrior simply doesn't have full stop.

This is a big reason why warrior gets hurt by the expansions. The powercreep. Eventually every class is going to be the de-facto "weapons master" with every access to a new weapon. It is as you say, it gets diluted. And then what does warrior have? If the master-of-arms concept is even going to work then warriors NEED exclusive and unique weapons, weapons that no other profession gets. But THEN, you run into the "issue" of players getting salty that they don't get those exclusive weapons.

[Mesket.5728]

2 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

This is a big reason why warrior gets hurt by the expansions. The powercreep. Eventually every class is going to be the de-facto "weapons master" with every access to a new weapon. It is as you say, it gets diluted. And then what does warrior have? If the master-of-arms concept is even going to work then warriors NEED exclusive and unique weapons, weapons that no other profession gets. But THEN, you run into the "issue" of players getting salty that they don't get those exclusive weapons.

or worst,... they try to fool us with a "new weapon" and end up giving us a terrible kit.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

4 hours ago, Mesket.5728 said:

or worst,... they try to fool us with a "new weapon" and end up giving us a terrible kit.

Don't forget the melee pistol! 🤣😃😕😥😭

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Cringe

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

8 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Don't forget the melee pistol! 🤣😃😕😥😭

Can I throw it at least?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Dude, look at warriors main hand sword skills, if that's not indicative of weapon mystery I donno what is haha.

[oscuro.9720]

7 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Can I throw it at least?

Oh god, now I need warrior pistol to function like a boomerang. Warrior no need fancy gadget, warrior throw hard. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

6 minutes ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Oh god, now I need warrior pistol to function like a boomerang. Warrior no need fancy gadget, warrior throw hard. 

Warrior need range attack. Rushes

Warrior still need range attack. Savage Leaps

Warrior still need range attack. Bull's Charges

Warrior still need range attack. Throws every weapon

Anet: Here is a pistol buddy

Warrior: throws pistol.

[oscuro.9720]

11 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Warrior need range attack. Rushes

Warrior still need range attack. Savage Leaps

Warrior still need range attack. Bull's Charges

Warrior still need range attack. Throws every weapon

Anet: Here is a pistol buddy

Warrior: throws pistol.

That’s the warrior I know and love! Throwing things to hit things that are far away is a hallmark of warrior;

Greatsword? Throw it.

Sword? Throw it.

Axe? Throw it.

Shield? We still are waiting on the Captain America spec.