Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.

[Zikory.6871]

5 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

outplaying by just stacking not sure if its a good balance  nor a good design wich is where performance comes mostly before we talk about being orgazied and imo the current combat issue, i know that other side should starting counter-meta builds but we are talking about Gw2 players here...and we all know how much gamer knowledge most have about their own toon skills.

I'm not sure why you typed any of this. You just said nothing to justify nerfing Defense Field. That was the whole point of your questionable story right? 

 

14 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

btw who is talking about minion comp and target caps? im completelly lost with that comment, that's a group issue that has no comms nor know how to call targets...it has nothing do to with what is being talker here.

Me, I said it. In the comment you replied to. And you are right, doesn't have anything to do with stacking Defense Field. Like I said, in the comment you replied to. 

[Aeolus.3615]

11 hours ago, Zikory.6871 said:

I'm not sure why you typed any of this. You just said nothing to justify nerfing Defense Field. That was the whole point of your questionable story right? 

Performance and overusage when stacked is a valid point, Anet have done with  other classes as well. 

One solution out of 3 is reduce the dome on a class that doesnt need it or already had plenty of defensive skills or just increase its CD, a scrapper dont sacrifice nothing for the dome when activated anyway.

Edit:There is counterplay to the Reflect reflect, block, reflect, rlock, but hardly will get used since requirees also team effort, easy way is to make meta game on wvw just aoe classes, this is what players choose most.

 

Edited January 3, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[codesherpa.1275]

I kind of enjoy Reflect, Rapid Fire, Rapid Fire, Rapid Fire, Rapid Fire, Rapid Fire, Dead Ranger

[solemn.9608]

This would just collateral damage roamers who are for the most part already screwed when it comes to longbow ranger and rifle deadeye. I don't think OPs suggestion is inherently a bad one, it would be nice to actually utilize projectiles in zergs, but wvw isn't always just zerging and this would worsen an already quite bad problem.

[coro.3176]

On 1/9/2022 at 12:44 PM, solemn.9608 said:

This would just collateral damage roamers who are for the most part already screwed when it comes to longbow ranger and rifle deadeye. I don't think OPs suggestion is inherently a bad one, it would be nice to actually utilize projectiles in zergs, but wvw isn't always just zerging and this would worsen an already quite bad problem.

A rapid fire from a glass soulbeast is easily enough to kill a squishy player, and maybe enough to kill a tanky player too if they eat the whole thing. So of course players need some defense against that because it can be initiated from over 1500 range away and is on a .. what, 10s cooldown? with the SB also threatening huge damage spikes up close too.

That's why I don't suggest nerfing cooldowns, but instead limiting the area that projectile defense can be shared among a zerg. If 1 player can defend themselves from projectiles for 5 seconds, that's great. If 1 player can defend 50 from projectiles for 5 seconds, we have a problem.

Unfortunately, I don't think the game has a way of differentiating *who* the projectiles are going to hit (esp. with ground targeted projectiles like engi grenades) when they collide with a wall or bubble. Just make the bubbles and walls smaller so that they still work, but give opposing projectile users more angles and opportunities to shoot around them vs a coordinated group.

[Justine.6351]

They could change some of the bubbles to walls like wall of reflection and directionals like field of the mists.

They wouldn't just be a cast and forget then if you were actively trying to stay protected by them.

[anduriell.6280]

On 12/26/2021 at 12:30 AM, Mil.3562 said:

TC please, there are enough nerfs done over the years to WvW.

We should nerf all reflects and blocks so that all rangers can snipe and troll from 1500 (seems like 2000) range? And then what? There will be calls to nerf ranger's longbow skills? It goes on and on. You should know ANet's solutions to balancing is NERF, NERF and more NERFs and we are already riding on the nerfing carousel for years now. Enough already.

This will also be super annoying for Virtuoso in EoD unless the projectiles are removed from the elite. Some tunning down of some skills or traits would be very welcome as OPs point on how Ground AoEs are so prevalent still stands. 

Powerful Auras needs a reduced radius, valiant bulkward a longer cast time or CD, and skills like Magnetic Surge would need to hit to provide the magnetic aura. 

On 12/25/2021 at 11:37 PM, Caedmon.6798 said:

 Hence the entire meta has been Aoe spamm for years and rangers never wanted.

Sadly that is not the reason why rangers don't have an spot in squads, they have melee weapons if that would be the case. Rangers don't have an spot in squads because during the years the class was practically destroyed by senseless nerfs like removing all the ranged AoE when the throwable traps were deleted or any team support when the mobile spirits were also deleted. 
I remember at some point spirit ranger had some functions within a wvw group. Well because pvp whining, not anymore. So pissed about all that. 

Sadly that has push the class to play troll builds with unidimensional design.  Pewpew or Axe tank soulbeast they both are the same.

In any case, even if projectile hate would be to disappear tomorrow rangers would not have an spot in squads yet. 

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

@anduriell.6280 virtuoso simply would need the stuff to be not projectiles, it's kinda sadge. i tried one during its first beta release, and virtuoso's dmg in blobfights is a sad thing. not really big. the AoE's lack effective dmg against anything post singletarget. compared to the other casters like weaver, core guard or herald, it does zero damage. (not listing dh as we talk about range dmg)

 

reflects can be often avoided if u have your eyes open. zerg classes like herald and weaver cannot brainlessly spam their 11111s either, as these are reflectable. so, no, reflects don't matter against a good composition. nobody sane would rely on pew pew anyways, as that type of skill usually has no AoE

 

also yeah, rangers and thieves lack the builds mostly for efficient largescale support simply. and i bet if anet made their traitlines more defensive and supportive or cut on them the offense power and sustain heavily, changing it to group supports. well, i hear the cries of these players yet - OMG I CANNOT ONESHOT ANYMORE HOW VERY UNFAIR FU ANET - sth like this would be every second forum post then for like several weeks

@coro.3176 well, afaik a lot of the bubble skills have in fact target caps.

and seriously, overall anet should finally start buffing bad stuff, instead of continuing the nerf train. especially, nobody should lay hands on things like bubbles, that stuff isn't OP at all. nobody forces u to play the least wanted/useful classes of a gamemode and then complain about it not beeing on par with metaclasses.

just for reminder: Most Effective Tactic Available = META. it's good for a reason. tested and polished for years.

Edited January 13, 2022 by kamikharzeeh.8016

[coro.3176]

 

2 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

 

@coro.3176 well, afaik a lot of the bubble skills have in fact target caps.

and seriously, overall anet should finally start buffing bad stuff, instead of continuing the nerf train. especially, nobody should lay hands on things like bubbles, that stuff isn't OP at all. nobody forces u to play the least wanted/useful classes of a gamemode and then complain about it not beeing on par with metaclasses.

just for reminder: Most Effective Tactic Available = META. it's good for a reason. tested and polished for years.

Just as an FYI, "meta" is short for metagame. It's not an acronym. 

Anyway, the bubble skills have target caps because they provide other effects that are capped. The anti-projectile part of them is not capped, and that's the problem.

They cancel projectiles from ALL enemies for a period of time. I gave the example of a coordinated group with 5 scrappers rotating defense field. That's 100% anti-projectile uptime. No way around it. You just can't use projectiles.

I complain about this both because I would like to use projectiles in some of my builds (eg. engi pistol) and because I play support scrapper, so I see first hand just how easily projectiles are shut out of WvW compared to flat ground AoE or other non-projectile damage.

Edited January 13, 2022 by coro.3176

[Caedmon.6798]

Bump ? 😆

Please dont ban me Anet.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Caedmon.6798

[unhyper.9531]

Peter Jackson's special anniversary director's extended edition thread.

Must go deeper!

[subversiontwo.7501]

10 hours ago, Caedmon.6798 said:

Bump ? 😆

Please dont ban me Anet.

Why would you bump this? Hasn't people like @coro.3176 already answered almost every possible question you could have? Things like Longbow 2 on a Ranger is balanced to reflects by having utilities that makes it unreflectable or various abilities that allow classes like the Ranger to go around reflects. That's how shorter-cooldown, high-damage projectile abilities are balanced to longer-cooldown play and counterplay. If you don't want to use your unreflectables or mobility, not only are you playing your class wrong but the game would also need to rebalance all those abilities to match other abilities. For me, Rapid Fire with the same cooldown as Meteor Shower would make for a less flexible and fun game. I'd rather have that 40s cooldown on Signet of the Hunt than on Rapid Fire itself. No one is going to let easy stuff be stupidly good.

Edited June 6, 2022 by subversiontwo.7501

[Mabi black.1824]

On 1/11/2022 at 8:59 PM, coro.3176 said:

If 1 player can defend themselves from projectiles for 5 seconds, that's great. If 1 player can defend 50 from projectiles for 5 seconds, we have a problem

I agree with your reasoning, here many complain about the limit of 5 players, which works in attack but not in defense? so I can attack at most 5 and you can defend 50 and we both made a single click on our skill? the rules should be the same for everyone.

[Riba.3271]

They already tried 3 expansions to make ranger viable spec:

 

- Druid: Long range healer (Was used in some guilds during HoT but became useless as soon as scrapper got reworked and there was better stealth/superspeed access)

- Soulbeast: Pet was removed so your party can stealth and your group isn't vulnerable to epidemics. Stance share was added (Dolyak stance is stronger "Stand Your Ground!")

- Untamed: Hammer CC and decent amount of boon removal

 

Making longbow viable is obviously not a solution due to its massive range. All of ranger elite specs are almost viable but they're just not best at anything. For example Tempest provides better CC, Immobilizes, Revives and survivability than any druid build.

 

I do give you that almost all ranger mains are tunnelvisioning on pewpew dream when obviously they should be running things like muddy terrain and immobilizing on well bombs. Unfortunately while they have great utilities, all their weapon skills are low-radius garbage. Granted if they get one outstanding skill similar to necro axe 3, they can be viable.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Threather.9354

[Caedmon.6798]

2 hours ago, Threather.9354 said:

They already tried 3 expansions to make ranger viable spec:

 

- Druid: Long range healer (Was used in some guilds during HoT but became useless as soon as scrapper got reworked and there was better stealth/superspeed access)

- Soulbeast: Pet was removed so your party can stealth and your group isn't vulnerable to epidemics. Stance share was added (Dolyak stance is stronger "Stand Your Ground!")

- Untamed: Hammer CC and decent amount of boon removal

 

Making longbow viable is obviously not a solution due to its massive range. All of ranger elite specs are almost viable but they're just not best at anything. For example Tempest provides better CC, Immobilizes, Revives and survivability than any druid build.

 

I do give you that almost all ranger mains are tunnelvisioning on pewpew dream when obviously they should be running things like muddy terrain and immobilizing on well bombs. Unfortunately while they have great utilities, all their weapon skills are low-radius garbage. Granted if they get one outstanding skill similar to necro axe 3, they can be viable.

Ranger was an example since bow is obv projectile based. But it counts for all projectile based specs Rifle warri/De/Ranger etc that have no chance of getting through the near permanent blocks/reflects/projectile ignores. Which forces people into certain specs that blast easy to land Aoe spamm only,which has been an issue for years.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Caedmon.6798

[Brandon Uzumaki.1524]

"Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block."

Fighting Weavers be like xD

[cobbah.3102]

Seems fine to me

[Quench.7091]

I wouldn't mind if there was a count for up to 25 or so projectiles to be absorbed on massive AoE projectile hate. This way it wouldn't impact smaller groups, but would keep larger groups in check. I've always found it strange that Blind abilities and Aegis abilities have their limits, but not so much for projectile hate.

Edited June 10, 2022 by Quench.7091

[Zyreva.1078]

14 minutes ago, Quench.7091 said:

I wouldn't mind if there was a count for up to 25 or so projectiles to be absorbed on massive AoE projectile hate. This way it wouldn't impact smaller groups, but would keep larger groups in check. I've always found it strange that Blind abilities and Aegis abilities have their limits, but not so much for projectile hate.

Limiting the amount of projectiles that can be blocked/reflected would hurt smaller grps the most, because the more players, the easier it is to overcome that limit. So no, bad idea. If anything, it's the amount of players protected by aoe reflects that should be looked at. But having defenses that can't be powered through by sheer numbers is a good thing.

[Charybdis.3695]

If you're going to put a limit on blocks and reflects for projectiles then there should also be limits to invulnerability or taking 0 damage skills. It's the same idea when you can block more than 20-30 melee strikes in 3-4 seconds.

[Caedmon.6798]

On 6/10/2022 at 6:52 PM, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Limiting the amount of projectiles that can be blocked/reflected would hurt smaller grps the most, because the more players, the easier it is to overcome that limit. So no, bad idea. If anything, it's the amount of players protected by aoe reflects that should be looked at. But having defenses that can't be powered through by sheer numbers is a good thing.

It would actually give smaller groups a better chance vs boonball groups that share reflect/block pretty much forever.

Edited June 11, 2022 by Caedmon.6798

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

26 minutes ago, Caedmon.6798 said:

It would actually give smaller groups a better chance vs boonball groups that share reflect/block pretty much forever.

Do you even math? I was giving you the benefit of the doubt since you're stealth lover, but holy kitten. ಠ_ಠ

[Vulkan.1375]

Bump and free spam.

 

"Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block.""Reflect Reflect,Block,Reflect,Block."

[Aeolus.3615]

@Vulkan.1375 blame the boon ball meta, still with that many reflects sounds like a anti-meta group with lots of chono /guardian reflects.

Imagine gameplay this way:

If 1 side tries to get carried with lots of machinists damage output and other 100% range classes -> other side uses reflects to counter meta, WoR on top of a PF for example will make reflects also burn besides damage.

If 1 side has a lamer boon ball -> other side try to  increases the  amount of chronos and other classes that remove boons rather than corrupt to avoid scrappers transforming condi back to boons.

 

Theres meta and counter meta, or atleast should exist, players should stop spamming and stop expect to get carried and think a bit or work with others to boon corrupt and disrupt certain gameplays.

Meanwhile buff spellbreaker dome to target quickness in 1st place 🙂 Anet still needs to balance perma boon balls in WvW since they get carried way to much buffing dome for this would be a good balance due how strong quickness is.

Scrapper is still to much strong can do everything in defense, remove its dome would be a decent balance change, this would leave that for other classes that are less tanky for example and add more variety to the gameplay ratther than stack lots of minstrell scrappers, scourges, FB, warriors.

 

Edit: rangers need to start using unblockables on WVW, if they complain about block and reflects cause they want easy DPS that in their own fault for not counter.

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Kori Jenkins.9017]

Was condi pirate ship meta more fun than the boon spam reflect block meta?