WvW should be allowed to compete more fairly!

[Cuks.8241]

WvW is not fair and is not meant to be fair. It is about forging communities and trying to win over other player groups. The matchmaking, group compositions is left in player hands. You could say that the point of WvW is to create an uneven, unfair match up to win.

See it as a war. Winning the war has nothing to do with fair, you could say waging a fair war is stupid.

If you want a mode that strives for fair match ups, you have spvp.

[guan.1829]

1 hour ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

So let me get this strait:

 

Players who do well k/d wise, meaning they end up with a positive k/d for themselves and those around them (because often good k/d is a result of a team effort), are rewarded by being randomly reassigned, most likely getting split from their guild mates and friends?

 

Yes, sounds like a great idea to implement./s

 

This entire idea just comes off as a slightly larger version of spvp. In which case, why not just go play that?

 

The only benefit here: this idea is so far from what WvW is currently (and honestly, forcefully reassigning players for doing well is such a backwards idea), it is very doubtful the devlopers are going to go even slightly in this direction. Maybe as a new game mode inbetween spvp and wvw but likely never.

 

 

Just as my headline says. WvW should be allowed to compete more fairly! Anet. We must work towards this goal.

[Cyninja.2954]

28 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

WvW is not fair and is not meant to be fair. It is about forging communities and trying to win over other player groups. The matchmaking, group compositions is left in player hands. You could say that the point of WvW is to create an uneven, unfair match up to win.

See it as a war. Winning the war has nothing to do with fair, you could say waging a fair war is stupid.

If you want a mode that strives for fair match ups, you have spvp.

 

This.

[guan.1829]

1 hour ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

WvW is about one world forging a bond! 
Learning how everyone on that world works, players in the same world should be cooperating and make time table to fill up the spaces, share intels, teach new players builds and squad formation. It is not about who has the best k/d , it is about who cooperate the best, and make the best of what their world has to offer. 

it is never fair

There is a gap between your ideal and reality. You're describing WvW as it looked a few years ago. Now WvW has changed. Few commanders now lead new players to hone their skills. It's like throwing a sheep into the forest! The law of the jungle. The CURRENT WvW community is like the end of the world! It's like The Walking Dead. Every small community. They don't welcome strangers.

[Cyninja.2954]

27 minutes ago, guan.1829 said:

 

 

Just as my headline says. WvW should be allowed to compete more fairly! Anet. We must work towards this goal.

 

Before any of that is an issue, the developers would first have to work on so many other things besides player pairings, some of which are far easier to fix. For example unbalance as far as maps, objectives, time zones, etc. Least of all classes.

 

WvW is not meant to be fair. Never was, never will be. WvW always was meant to be a sandbox battleground area.

 

Now that doesn't mean it has to be as unbalanced as we have it now, but what you are thinking of has nothing to do with WvW nor has it ever in any of the games which catered to the WvW crowd (DAoC, Warhammer Online, ESO, etc.). Nor would it be any fun at this scale. This amount of balance works in smaller scale environments, because it is inherent to breeding toxicity due to its competitive nature.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[guan.1829]

44 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

WvW is not fair and is not meant to be fair. It is about forging communities and trying to win over other player groups. The matchmaking, group compositions is left in player hands. You could say that the point of WvW is to create an uneven, unfair match up to win.

See it as a war. Winning the war has nothing to do with fair, you could say waging a fair war is stupid.

If you want a mode that strives for fair match ups, you have spvp.

I don't think so. No one on the other two servers. 50 people playing PVE in WvW? Or 50 people killing 15 people. I did my best to cover 15 enemies with skill. Because I want that bag... It's boring! I hope the enemy is strong, too. At least make the game fun. Instead of crushing the game, bullying, outnumbered.

[guan.1829]

15 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

WvW is not meant to be fair. Never was, never will be. WvW always was meant to be a sandbox battleground area.

OK. Then every player should have his own nationality! The server should not be moved. Pugs swarmed in. This is treason! Given this premise. I can accept your so-called unfairness! LOL

[Mabi black.1824]

haha how funny it is to see that when it comes to random players ...... who are part of and have built their role in their server / team ......... using them as a filler is right...........................if you do the same treatment to all other guild players ............ the sick are unleashed.

relax you will also be used as a filler................hihihihi

Edited December 31, 2021 by Mabi black.1824

[SweetPotato.7456]

We have been K-train for 5-8 hours everyday since reset

 

53 minutes ago, guan.1829 said:

There is a gap between your ideal and reality. You're describing WvW as it looked a few years ago. Now WvW has changed. Few commanders now lead new players to hone their skills. It's like throwing a sheep into the forest! The law of the jungle. The CURRENT WvW community is like the end of the world! It's like The Walking Dead. Every small community. They don't welcome strangers.

I know your pain. 

[Cyninja.2954]

26 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

haha how funny it is to see that when it comes to random players ...... who are part of and have built their role in their server / team ......... using them as a filler is right...........................if you do the same treatment to all other guild players ............ the sick are unleashed.

relax you will also be used as a filler................hihihihi

 

Which is a valid point. The best distribution could be achieved with using the smallest denominator, aka individual players.

 

So essentially it becomes a balance of how small can/should one make the balance-able pieces to achieve more equal player distribution. Servers have proven to large, going down to the individual player level seems to far, aka guilds and alliances are seen as middle compromise in hopes that it will suffice. 

 

If guild and alliance sizes can/need to be adjusted, time will tell. Which again is a benefit of the coming system: adaptability to change circumstances.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[guan.1829]

24 minutes ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

We have been K-train for 5-8 hours everyday since reset

 

I know your pain. 

what

[SweetPotato.7456]

14 minutes ago, guan.1829 said:

what

Outnumbered by enemy everyday without commander. On top of that, Anet removed the outnumbered pip that was there to say "there there, its okay, we gib more pips" but its gone!! and we are outnumbered!

Edited December 31, 2021 by SweetPotato.7456

[guan.1829]

12 minutes ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

Outnumbered by enemy everyday without commander. On top of that, Anet removed the outnumbered pip that was there to say "there there, its okay, we gib more pips" but its gone!! and we are outnumbered!

Yes. That's one of the problems.

[Xenesis.6389]

So experience long periods of outnumbered.... yet want to keep the same community and server system in place.... has a fear of guilds... while rejecting a system that could maybe provide better access to pug commanders and more players in those time zones by spreading the population.... while crying about losing pips from outnumbered... one has to wonder if interested in better playing situations or just the rewards...

[guan.1829]

13 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

So experience long periods of outnumbered.... yet want to keep the same community and server system in place.... has a fear of guilds... while rejecting a system that could maybe provide better access to pug commanders and more players in those time zones by spreading the population.... while crying about losing pips from outnumbered... one has to wonder if interested in better playing situations or just the rewards...

"Alliance systems" Anet describes as having many cosmic communities. When guild 25+ enters WvW. Found no enemies on the other 2 servers... This is the foreseeable future! The same will happen now. The guild is trying to find GvG. Because there is no competition in WvW... That's the reality

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

but exactly that is the issue. way too few serious guilds and commanders, far too few serious players who try to learn the combat system and movements of largescale even.

 

the final alliances is the best u can get by fixing the matchups. we don't have to fight against blobs anymore who run away at plain sight after losing 5 people... because the strong guilds will get a better distribution that way. besides, guilds are normally not that big. only the bad and casual raid guilds in wvw are extremly numerous. u cannot have 30+ raids, as u have a too hard time to enter maps, and it'd be too easy to farm everyone if good guilds would do that.

 

imo players won't learn to play, as long as rewards don't get better. but these also would need to get better distributed. ppt must not be the crucial factor about the rewards. the killscam randoms who just try to run after tags and tag some kills to get participation rewards

 

also the nerfed dps damaged the combat system to an extent. same as removal of the boon "retaliation", as every random now can play soulbeast or  weaver to get big dmg off from safe range. that combined with keep buffs and the billions of unnerfed artillery damage and nerfed healing really made a unhealthy tedious impact on fights

 

@guan.1829 u don't really understand how Wvw sofar worked it seems. blobfights with 50*3 randoms would be just a huge pain and superboring. nobody sane can really want that in Wvw.

Edited January 1, 2022 by kamikharzeeh.8016

[guan.1829]

4 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

but exactly that is the issue. way too few serious guilds and commanders, far too few serious players who try to learn the combat system and movements of largescale even.

 

the final alliances is the best u can get by fixing the matchups. we don't have to fight against blobs anymore who run away at plain sight after losing 5 people... because the strong guilds will get a better distribution that way. besides, guilds are normally not that big. only the bad and casual raid guilds in wvw are extremly numerous. u cannot have 30+ raids, as u have a too hard time to enter maps, and it'd be too easy to farm everyone if good guilds would do that.

 

imo players won't learn to play, as long as rewards don't get better. but these also would need to get better distributed. ppt must not be the crucial factor about the rewards. the killscam randoms who just try to run after tags and tag some kills to get participation rewards

 

also the nerfed dps damaged the combat system to an extent. same as removal of the boon "retaliation", as every random now can play soulbeast or  weaver to get big dmg off from safe range. that combined with keep buffs and the billions of unnerfed artillery damage and nerfed healing really made a unhealthy tedious impact on fights

 

@guan.1829 u don't really understand how Wvw sofar worked it seems. blobfights with 50*3 randoms would be just a huge pain and superboring. nobody sane can really want that in Wvw.

This thread has generated 39 conversations! You still raise a repetitive question.

I proposed a balanced system. WvW is still dominated by guilds!

You are extreme. Describes the phenomenon of random players following pins. (It could also be a hidden PIN)

① The guild closed itself and chose RAID. Random players also make their own choices.

② This is a test of the commander's leadership! If you can get people to support you.

I'm doing something relatively perfect... WvW should be allowed to compete more fairly!

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

u dream of a system of your own interest, nothing more. u do lack insight to really design anything close to perfect. and as many people realize, "fair" isn't something possible amongst a gamemode like Wvw is.

 

don't call me extreme, if all u have to say is the same stuff over and over again, in like tons of random weird threads. and most people simply disagree with your utopia, period.

[guan.1829]

7 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

u dream of a system of your own interest, nothing more. u do lack insight to really design anything close to perfect. and as many people realize, "fair" isn't something possible amongst a gamemode like Wvw is.

 

don't call me extreme, if all u have to say is the same stuff over and over again, in like tons of random weird threads. and most people simply disagree with your utopia, period.

The difference between you and me. When WvW has a problem. I chose to find the answer to the problem. And you chose to run away. xD

[Cyninja.2954]

2 hours ago, guan.1829 said:

The difference between you and me. When WvW has a problem. I chose to find the answer to the problem. And you chose to run away. xD

 

That depends on the answer.

 

If the answer means the game mode changes completely, it is hardly an answer. It is merely scrapping a game mode in favor of trying another. You might love this approach, not caring about other players opinions or even understanding what you propose, but it should be obvious most players still invested in the mode like it for what it is now.

 

Other "solutions" strive to salvage as much as possible keeping the current game mode in tact as much as possible as to not sever its self from the remaining players who are interested and active in it.

 

The question thus boils down to: is a radical new mode the better idea than a process of trying to salvage as much as possible of the game mode.

 

TL;DR:

You aren't looking for a solution or answer for the current WvW mode. You are asking for a nearly new mode. That's not an answer to players who want the current WvW mode fixed. Which becomes even more of an issue of a similar mode with what you ask for already exists in the game.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[nativity.3057]

4 hours ago, guan.1829 said:

The difference between you and me. When WvW has a problem. I chose to find the answer to the problem. And you chose to run away. xD

 

I always wondered what possesses someone to think whatever they say is correct, despite the numerous replies in objection.

Edited January 2, 2022 by nativity.3057

[guan.1829]

14 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

That depends on the answer.

 

If the answer means the game mode changes completely, it is hardly an answer. It is merely scrapping a game mode in favor of trying another. You might love this approach, not caring about other players opinions or even understanding what you propose, but it should be obvious most players still invested in the mode like it for what it is now.

 

Other "solutions" strive to salvage as much as possible keeping the current game mode in tact as much as possible as to not sever its self from the remaining players who are interested and active in it.

 

The question thus boils down to: is a radical new mode the better idea than a process of trying to salvage as much as possible of the game mode.

 

TL;DR:

You aren't looking for a solution or answer for the current WvW mode. You are asking for a nearly new mode. That's not an answer to players who want the current WvW mode fixed. Which becomes even more of an issue of a similar mode with what you ask for already exists in the game.

① Concentrate on filling the map with players. Open the next map. Instead of scattering players around the world.

② Personal K/D data already exists.

 

I offer the solution! There are multiple options. Not the only answer! This project could provide Anet with more inspiration.

Except for the lazy ones. No one wants to see WvW go wrong and just ignore it. Someone has to step up.  lel

[guan.1829]

12 hours ago, nativity.3057 said:

 

I always wondered what possesses someone to think whatever they say is correct, despite the numerous replies in objection.

"Truth is often in the hands of the few"   

[nativity.3057]

12 hours ago, guan.1829 said:

"Truth is often in the hands of the few"   

Sure, but not by you. 

[guan.1829]

9 hours ago, nativity.3057 said:

Sure, but not by you. 

You're not arguing with me! You're complaining to me.