I miss Slow-Chrono

[Lethion.8745]

It was one of the most fun, unique and flavoursome builds I've ever played in GW2, before it was over-buffed... Why didn't they just revert the buffs instead of completely reworking the traits and removing the build entirely? It was doing just fine before the buffs.  Not too good, not too bad, just fine... Adding unnecessary amount of damage to those traits was a massive mistake. Those traits were never meant to be used in a DPS build. They were parts of the CC focused playstyle of Chronomancer. The DPS traits were supposed be the middle ones... Now that playstyle is completely gone. 1.5 second Slow on CC is ridiclous. Slow just goes off by the time CC ends. What is the point of slowing someone who is already CC'ed? It also has 3 seconds internal CD for some reason, as if anyone will be able to spam it without the CD. And Lost Time. Oh boy... I can play 4 classes as my main in PvP and if anyone have ever asked me what is the weakest trait you've ever seen in the entire game, I would say Lost Time. (Edit: Nvm, I've remembered this exists.) That trait is just so bad. Even if Chrono had perma Slow application, I can't imagine anyone chosing to use it over Chronophantasma or Seize The Moment. Danger Time on the other hand, is not bad on it's own but it suffers from the fact that Chrono can't apply it's own Slow anymore. 

 

Since every other trait which were part of the Slowterrupt build were also nerfed, I see no problem with reverting Lost Time to it's first pre-buff iteration(2 second Slow after 5 crit hits). You can increase internal CD if you need to, or you can nerf Danger Time, as much as you want. In fact, I wish it was extending Slow duration instead of adding crit chance since as I said, Slow shouldn't be used for damage, it only causes problems.  It could be something like 'Slow you apply has increased duration based on your Precision.' It would also make Delayed Reactions more useful.

Pls ANet. 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Lethion.8745

[viquing.8254]

It was too strong against plebs keyboard's rollfacer sadly.

Like confusion...

This game going crazy pegi4 with everyone doing the same thing btw.

 

And you will have the so called "skill squad" on this forum who will jump on you about passive and how mesmer should be the only class with all his traits/skills active because they feel good.

Edited December 29, 2021 by viquing.8254

[Justine.6351]

I think slow got buffs in chronomancer because it doesn't really do enough on its own. Yeah those traits are pretty bad in wvw/pvp.

Another route might be to add a rune set that increases slow and benefits off from it,

+25 precision

+5% slow duration

+50 precision

+10% slow duration

+100 precision

+15% slow duration, Gain shocking aura after interrupting a foe. (4sec duration, 30sec cooldown).

[Lethion.8745]

59 minutes ago, Justine.6351 said:

I think slow got buffs in chronomancer because it doesn't really do enough on its own. Yeah those traits are pretty bad in wvw/pvp.

Another route might be to add a rune set that increases slow and benefits off from it,

+25 precision

+5% slow duration

+50 precision

+10% slow duration

+100 precision

+15% slow duration, Gain shocking aura after interrupting a foe. (4sec duration, 30sec cooldown).

That's a cool idea. Slow really is a very under-utilitized condi in the game in general, not only for Chrono. Unfortunetly tho, Chrono will still need something to apply Slow more consistently. Otherwise, that rune alone is not enough to make it a viable strat I believe.

[Lethion.8745]

1 hour ago, viquing.8254 said:

It was too strong against plebs keyboard's rollfacer sadly.

Like confusion...

 That might be true but I don't really remember anyone complaining about the Slow build until the over the top buffs.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Lethion.8745

[Justine.6351]

8 hours ago, Lethion.8745 said:

That's a cool idea. Slow really is a very under-utilitized condi in the game in general, not only for Chrono. Unfortunetly tho, Chrono will still need something to apply Slow more consistently. Otherwise, that rune alone is not enough to make it a viable strat I believe.

Another change or two I would make are,

Balancing Time Warp down to 60 second cooldown. Seriously though its number are already balanced down to that. They should really just drop its cooldown to that same as gravity well's in wvw.

Lost Time now also causes chaos armor to apply slow instead of confusion.

[Infusion.7149]

Time Warp was nerfed due to people stacking 8-10 chronos and not speccing quickness gear. It has nothing to do with slow.

Edited December 30, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Yoci.2481]

How is that a reason to nerf it? Will they nerf DPS when people stack DPS? What?

[SeTect.5918]

"Chronomancer has been steeply overperforming in a damage role in all content.."

Also Chrono:
I never see any chrono in fractals
I nearly never see any chrono in wvw and pvp
I nearly never see any chrono in open world

Is raids and strikes what they mean with "all content"?
I dont even play raids and strikes but were they really that good there?

And saying they were steeply overperforming as damage role and killing the slow uptime and core skills is not the way.

If they had to nerf time warp because of the quickness uptime, they couldve nerfed the quickness uptime and not also the slow uptime on that skill.

Also the alac to mirage on that update made no sense. Chrono the time themed spec was the original alac spec and now has the lowest alac access out of all alac builds. Even the brother of chrono that has nothing to do with time, is now a better alac. What was the conversation when they decided to give alac to mirage?

"Chronos want their alac uptime back"
"Okay"
"How about alac on ambush of staff?"
"Isnt that mirage?"
"Is it?"
"Yes"
"Who cares"
"Chronos"
"Who cares"
"None"
-
"Should we also nerf slow uptime on chrono?"
"How should we do it?"
"The basic way"
"The basic way?"
"Nerfing core skills"

I really love this game but I really dont know what goes on in their heads sometimes....

They nerf alac on chrono and give it to mirage
They also nerfed quickness of chrono in that update btw
They nerfed slow uptime in that update too

They r moving chrono in a direction that makes it not even the time themed spec anymore.

No hate to thieves but Specter can give perma quickness and alac uptime for 5 people.

 

Sorry I had to get that out.

Edited December 31, 2021 by SeTect.5918

[FarmBotXD.1430]

36 minutes ago, SeTect.5918 said:

"Chronomancer has been steeply overperforming in a damage role in all content.."

Also Chrono:
I never see any chrono in fractals
I nearly never see any chrono in wvw and pvp
I nearly never see any chrono in open world

Is raids and strikes what they mean with "all content"?
I dont even play raids and strikes but were they really that good there?

And saying they were steeply overperforming as damage role and killing the slow uptime and core skills is not the way.

If they had to nerf time warp because of the quickness uptime, they couldve nerfed the quickness uptime and not also the slow uptime on that skill.

Also the alac to mirage on that update made no sense. Chrono the time themed spec was the original alac spec and now has the lowest alac access out of all alac builds. Even the brother of chrono that has nothing to do with time, is now a better alac. What was the conversation when they decided to give alac to mirage?

"Chronos want their alac uptime back"
"Okay"
"How about alac on ambush of staff?"
"Isnt that mirage?"
"Is it?"
"Yes"
"Who cares"
"Chronos"
"Who cares"
"None"
-
"Should we also nerf slow uptime on chrono?"
"How should we do it?"
"The basic way"
"The basic way?"
"Nerfing core skills"

I really love this game but I really dont know what goes on in their heads sometimes....

They nerf alac on chrono and give it to mirage
They also nerfed quickness of chrono in that update btw
They nerfed slow uptime in that update too

They r moving chrono in a direction that makes it not even the time themed spec anymore.

No hate to thieves but Specter can give perma quickness and alac uptime for 5 people.

 

Sorry I had to get that out.

in all content they mean raids specifically, where the best strategy for every encounter was to throw as many chronomancers at it as possible.
pvp/wvw/fractals chrono sucked, not it sucks even more ( its still god in solo due to self buffs )
Instead off doing the right thing, which is making the spec better at wvw/pvp/fractals and worse in raids, they made a blanket nerf.
typical developer incompetence 

Quote from fractal guild
1 -> The Power Chronomancer is the strongest (and only) build for Mesmer in fractals.
2 -> To succeed as a Power Chronomancer in higher-end groups you'll need to be able to adapt your rotation on the go and push the limits of your class, but even then you will probably be a hinderance for your group.
This is a state in which we are right now
 

[Infusion.7149]

It was a primarily raid specific thing. People don't care too much about comp in strikes but the speedclear guilds ran 8-10 chronos if I'm not mistaken.
see

 

Snowcrows was also telling people to run a chrono stack, https://web.archive.org/web/20201107230435/https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

Before the exposed change chrono was usable in fractals, now I see more mirages (axe or staff, sometimes hybrid after RYAN from SC posted that) in any groups not asking for alac ren.
To me , changing Lost Time to provide alac which is mutually exclusive with StM would have been a better solution. However, alac mirage is far easier to play and GW2 has been heading towards ease of play more and more (see FB quickness, scrapper quickness versus StM chrono).

Chrono is used heavily in WVW by commanders and not so much random people joining tags. The reason is firebrand has no easy boon rip, stealth , portal, or veil while gravity well provides quite a bit of CC.

In PVP generally chrono is quite poor compared to core power shatter generally speaking. Most mesmers run condi mirage (even with one dodge) or core power shatter.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

1 hour ago, SeTect.5918 said:

"Chronomancer has been steeply overperforming in a damage role in all content.."

Also Chrono:
I never see any chrono in fractals
I nearly never see any chrono in wvw and pvp
I nearly never see any chrono in open world

Is raids and strikes what they mean with "all content"?
I dont even play raids and strikes but were they really that good there?

And saying they were steeply overperforming as damage role and killing the slow uptime and core skills is not the way.

If they had to nerf time warp because of the quickness uptime, they couldve nerfed the quickness uptime and not also the slow uptime on that skill.

Also the alac to mirage on that update made no sense. Chrono the time themed spec was the original alac spec and now has the lowest alac access out of all alac builds. Even the brother of chrono that has nothing to do with time, is now a better alac. What was the conversation when they decided to give alac to mirage?

"Chronos want their alac uptime back"
"Okay"
"How about alac on ambush of staff?"
"Isnt that mirage?"
"Is it?"
"Yes"
"Who cares"
"Chronos"
"Who cares"
"None"
-
"Should we also nerf slow uptime on chrono?"
"How should we do it?"
"The basic way"
"The basic way?"
"Nerfing core skills"

I really love this game but I really dont know what goes on in their heads sometimes....

They nerf alac on chrono and give it to mirage
They also nerfed quickness of chrono in that update btw
They nerfed slow uptime in that update too

They r moving chrono in a direction that makes it not even the time themed spec anymore.

No hate to thieves but Specter can give perma quickness and alac uptime for 5 people.

 

Sorry I had to get that out.

If it makes you feel better, they nerfed the skill that gave quickness on specter (Sc/P 3) because they didn't want specter to give perma quickness on top of perma alacrity. But instead of simply, you know, removing the quickness, they changed the target cap of the skill from 3 to 1, which only really succeeded in nerfing the support and damage of that skill by 66% while leaving the perma quickness and alacrity intact. So at least they are consistent in the way they nerf things. 

[Infusion.7149]

That's not an appropriate comparison as an inspiration chrono putting out both alac and quickness does <18K DPS and a StM chrono with quickness is about 27-28K played perfectly while most safe groups are running 50% Boon Duration instead of the benchmark's 10%.  In terms of role compression due to 10 man alacrity the number of instances people would run a full boon chrono is rare , even more so after renegade had torment improvements such that condi RR sustained damage performs on par with full cDPS classes such as cBS/deadeye/ranger/condi holo/condi tempest/scourge.

A specter was putting 51K+ DPS while putting out quickness so it's naive to think it was going to stay that way especially since it also had barriers and might generation. The role compression is simply of a different nature, offheal+alacrity. That is to say, a spec that is unfinished and overperforming versus one that has been a staple for a while and nerfed heavily over the years.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Yoci.2481]

3 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

It was a primarily raid specific thing. People don't care too much about comp in strikes but the speedclear guilds ran 8-10 chronos if I'm not mistaken.
see

 

Snowcrows was also telling people to run a chrono stack, https://web.archive.org/web/20201107230435/https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

Before the exposed change chrono was usable in fractals, now I see more mirages (axe or staff, sometimes hybrid after RYAN from SC posted that) in any groups not asking for alac ren.
To me , changing Lost Time to provide alac which is mutually exclusive with StM would have been a better solution. However, alac mirage is far easier to play and GW2 has been heading towards ease of play more and more (see FB quickness, scrapper quickness versus StM chrono).

Chrono is used heavily in WVW by commanders and not so much random people joining tags. The reason is firebrand has no easy boon rip, stealth , portal, or veil while gravity well provides quite a bit of CC.

In PVP generally chrono is quite poor compared to core power shatter generally speaking. Most mesmers run condi mirage (even with one dodge) or core power shatter.

By used heavily in WvW you mean up to one per map?

[Infusion.7149]

4 minutes ago, Yoci.2481 said:

By used heavily in WvW you mean up to one per map?

I hope you're just being sarcastic as I see them quite often ; given a portal can only port 25 people unless you are running mimic portal it means at least 2 per squad for portal strats. Not as often as guardians for obvious reasons but they're there.

It's even listed as meta on gw2mists
https://gw2mists.com/builds/mesmer/support-chronomancer
https://guildjen.com/boon-strip-chronomancer-wvw-zerg-build/

[Yoci.2481]

Sorry but no, I do not see them often. There is maybe one Chrono for every 10 Rangers, or 10 Thieves or 10 Guardians I see.

[Infusion.7149]

Then you must mostly roam, as thieves and rangers are unwanted in most squads.

[Salt Mode.3780]

3 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Then you must mostly roam, as thieves and rangers are unwanted in most squads.

Sorry I live in WvW aside from cmder there is not more then 1 chronomancer rest are FB or scrappers...in fact recently cmders are not even chronos.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Salt Mode.3780

[Yoci.2481]

22 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Then you must mostly roam, as thieves and rangers are unwanted in most squads.

In WvW most people most of the time are not part of an organized squad. And even when they are Chronomancers or Mesmers in general aren't exactly abundant in squads either. What I'm trying to say here is that WvW isn't a good place for Mesmer currently. Which is sad because I almost only play Mesmer and only WvW.

[Infusion.7149]

Unless you are part of a server that has no organization whatsoever there will be squads. Whether you don't join them is a different issue altogether. If you're roaming then you probably want to run double energy sigil mirage or core power shatter and slow is not even going to be a huge factor since conditions without heavy cover conditions won't stick. WvW has the PvE version of cleansing sigil which removes 3 conditions at a time.

Also I counted at least 5 gravity wells today outside the squad as well as two mesmer portals. So there are certainly chronomancers in my matchup, even if there aren't in yours.

[Yoci.2481]

I have played Chrono in WvW for many many years. I know you are just trying to be helpful, but what you are saying is a little bit too basic.

[Obliviscaris.6937]

Who the effing crap is snow bird and why do I care what they have to say in a PvP context? SPOILER: I don't.

Edited January 1, 2022 by Obliviscaris.6937

[Lethion.8745]

On 12/31/2021 at 3:50 AM, SeTect.5918 said:

Is raids and strikes what they mean with "all content"?
I dont even play raids and strikes but were they really that good there?

 

Yes, it was that good. The problem is, there wasn't a real seperation between PvP and PvE balance in this game for a very long time. Yes we had skills seperated in game modes but both PvP and PvE balance was done by same people and their focus was  end game PvE content. It took a  very long time for devs to seperate balance teams for PvP and PvE (can't find the news about it but I think it was last year.) Before that, we had many PvP-only nerfs but never PvE-only nerfs. It shows that devs didn't think deep about how PvE nerfs might affect PvP area. If it's something is overperforming in PvP, it gets nerfed for only PvP but if something is overperforming in PvE, it gets nerfed for both game modes. 

 

6 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Unless you are part of a server that has no organization whatsoever there will be squads. Whether you don't join them is a different issue altogether. If you're roaming then you probably want to run double energy sigil mirage or core power shatter and slow is not even going to be a huge factor since conditions without heavy cover conditions won't stick. WvW has the PvE version of cleansing sigil which removes 3 conditions at a time.

Also I counted at least 5 gravity wells today outside the squad as well as two mesmer portals. So there are certainly chronomancers in my matchup, even if there aren't in yours.

 

90% of the tools used in that build are core mesmer skills. I wouldn't suggest that as an argument for Chrono's playablility.

[Infusion.7149]

5 hours ago, Lethion.8745 said:

 

90% of the tools used in that build are core mesmer skills. I wouldn't suggest that as an argument for Chrono's playablility.

If 90% of the "tools" in spellbreaker, herald, or guardian are "core skills" it doesn't make them unplayable either. Outside of distortion being lost , chrono is more or less an upgrade core mesmer. You gain shield , alacrity on shatter (with up to 50% CD reduction), movement speed / movement impairing condition reduction , double-cast phantasms, and wells. There is no such thing as a core boon mesmer for example.

[Salt Mode.3780]

Core Glam support Mesmer was much more efficient then chrono nowadays. There is just no incentive to bring a chrono when literally support scrapper/firebrand just does it so much better. 

Chrono yea is a upgrade from core in support aspects only cuz core lacks any real AoE but in a realm of roaming core is still significantly better then chrono.