PvP is an awful experience with an easy fix

[Thornwolf.9721]

Premade teams should of been allowed from the start. Every other pvp game allows it; I don't see why this one should handle it any different.

[Thornwolf.9721]

On 1/4/2022 at 1:23 PM, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

The 5 man community is astronomically smaller than the people in it think it is. Making matchmaking 5-man just replaces the current problems of matchmaking with exclusion and elitism. This has been both explained and proven in the past. Just look to ATs for all the proof you need.

People keep suggesting 5man as some magical solution to all our problems. It's not.

 

 

Its not that I care about the rest of the community, it's lame that I can't que in ranked with my guild or friends. I have to basically run either duo or solo and that isn't what any pvp game should focus its matchmaking exclusively on. I hate pugging in instanced pvp, just like I don't pug fractals or if I dare raids. 

If its not with people I know, then im not going. I shouldn't be forced to interact with the outer community unless its on my terms as my friends are why I play the game; I don't play it for that solo que kdr glory that everyone else seems to care so much about.

~Just make it an option, don't enforce it either way. Make the match making system pair you against other pre-mades of the same number as yours, so if you have 4 it'd be 4 v 4 with a pug on either side. Or 5 v 5 full pre-made... there are ways to compromise.

[Sahne.6950]

12 hours ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

~Just make it an option, don't enforce it either way. Make the match making system pair you against other pre-mades of the same number as yours, so if you have 4 it'd be 4 v 4 with a pug on either side. Or 5 v 5 full pre-made... there are ways to compromise.

Great idea! Now we simply need the playernumbers for that to work.... which... we dont have.

[Thornwolf.9721]

18 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Great idea! Now we simply need the playernumbers for that to work.... which... we dont have.

Still shouldn't keep me from being able to que with my friends in ranked. It's not my fault they've managed to kill the mode through their inability to make it better than what it has become.

[Swagg.9236]

On 1/1/2022 at 11:58 AM, mziven.2095 said:

PVP is currently a frustrating and unenjoyable experience because it is inundated with nonhuman players (bots), AFK teammates, and toxic teammates. These three issues can be resolved or mitigated by allowing players to queue with full teams instead of only two people.

 

Having a random stranger waste your time by either refusing to play or by typing derogatory comments in chat is frustrating and entirely unwelcome. Although bot teammates exhibit neither of  characteristics, and as such are often superior to many random partners, their predictability and poor decision making often makes them more of a liability than an asset. In most cases, a bot teammate is also unwelcome and frustrating to play with. Removing bots from PvP, preventing afk teammates, and policing player interactions is challenging and resource intensive for game developers (devs). However, these problems can largely be mitigated by allowing players to select their entire team.

 

Allowing players to queue with full teams, instead of only two players, will  essentially bypass the previously listed problems. This option will provide players the opportunity to play with friends, people that are less likely be verbally abusive or go afk, and without bots. Additionally, teams can remove player/s from their group between matches or exclude/avoid them in the future if they are toxic or delinquent. These features are already available for tournaments and are facilitated by the Looking For Group (lfg) tab so should require minimum effort to implement. Ultimately, the option to queue with a full team improves player agency and enjoyment with minimal dev effort. 

 

TLDR: Five person queues resolves or mitigates the problems of afk teammates, toxic teammates, and bot teammates and will require minimum effort to implement. 

 

There is no easy fix to GW2's PvP, but 5-man teams is probably the tourniquet which would have the most impact.  However, you have to understand that we're dealing with GW2, and that presents us with two problems in PvP:

1. The playerbase's skin is made of toilet-paper, so you'll have a huge backlash about people getting rolled by 5-mans.
2. Ironically, making 5-man teams would exacerbate another huge issue about PvP:  rule by build composition.  Giving ranked access to 5-man teams would basically doom any sort of off-meta, player-driven creativity.  There would be absolutely no window to challenge something like 2specter/2harb/1guard.  You'd see an even more stale match landscape than exists now.

I personally think that 6v6-8v8 would be a better direction to take things.  The biggest issue with GW2 PvP beyond its fundamental design flaws is really just how grindy and slow the gameplay can get in the 5v5 format.  If you're not going to (or capable of) giving GW2 any sort of true depth for PvP combat, then an extra body or two on the field might honestly promote some weirder build possibilities and individual/skirmish interactions.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Swagg.9236

[Sahne.6950]

On 4/15/2022 at 5:21 AM, Thornwolf.9721 said:

Still shouldn't keep me from being able to que with my friends in ranked. It's not my fault they've managed to kill the mode through their inability to make it better than what it has become.

agree playing with your friends should be a thing. But we would have 2 problems originating from this.

1) If you allow to 5manQ for normal ranked.... Playing anything other than fullpremade is like shooting yourself in the knee. You will most likely face 5 man teams. If you are soloQing....  GG

2) if we split the Q´s....  We split the Q´s! Finding a match takes very long as is. If you further split the playerbase... we will be stuck in the Arena waiting for a game.

 

Edited April 19, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Thornwolf.9721]

15 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

agree playing with your friends should be a thing. But we would have 2 problems originating from this.

1) If you allow to 5manQ for normal ranked.... Playing anything other than fullpremade is like shooting yourself in the knee. You will most likely face 5 man teams. If you are soloQing....  GG

2) if we split the Q´s....  We split the Q´s! Finding a match takes very long as is. If you further split the playerbase... we will be stuck in the Arena waiting for a game.

 

None of which is my concern, they did this themselves. It's not excuse; Fix the mode and let us run in pre-mades. It's really not that hard to re-evaluate why the mode is not popular and make adjustments nor is it that difficult to implement a core feature almost EVERY pvp centric game has.

All they need to do is look at guild wars 1, scrap this current incarnation of PvP and work guild/alliance battles in and make it so that guilds and alliances can be formed. You then could have it lightly tie into WvW alliances and consolidate some of the resources while keeping it uniform with what it is. Then you could have what we currently have as an off-shoot sort of like how edge of the mists was for WvW. What we have now is a good side-piece but it shouldn't be the main course or the only option available. The game is called GUILD WARS. It's time we actually incorporate what made GW1 PvP so popular. (Also port over and remake those maps, they were good. We're in the mists. Anything can exist. We should be able to have any wonky, off the wall map you can imagine... same goes for WvW)

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

16 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

2) if we split the Q´s....  We split the Q´s! Finding a match takes very long as is. If you further split the playerbase... we will be stuck in the Arena waiting for a game.

You're right, but also: the only people that would stop running solo Q are the people that didn't want to be there in the first place and are currently propping up soloQ's playerbase against their will. 

And the people that wanted team queue and don't want to settle for solo q just aren't playing ranked atm. 

Edited April 19, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

16 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

1) If you allow to 5manQ for normal ranked.... Playing anything other than fullpremade is like shooting yourself in the knee. You will most likely face 5 man teams. If you are soloQing....  GG

True

16 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

2) if we split the Q´s....  We split the Q´s! Finding a match takes very long as is. If you further split the playerbase... we will be stuck in the Arena waiting for a game.

 

Less true. The strong, strong majority of players SoloQ and SoloQ queue times would likely be relatively normal with Split queues.

It would be the teamQ people waiting for forever. Which is absolutely fine. Getting an entire premade together for a few games can take a while. Its really up to the player if they want to make that commitment.

 

Split queue is the way to go. Play Ranked/competitive in any other game and you'll quickly realize this. 

Especially one with a low player count, because people can exploit that when the queues are merged into 1.

[jdawgie.1835]

On 1/7/2022 at 6:20 PM, tacoclaw.8251 said:

GW2 is not a pvp game. Go find a real pvp game. What's wrong with you guys? 10,000 crybaby threads, each one about how broken pvp is. GW2 pvp is just for throw away fun.

Actually at its core GW2 was designed to be a PvP game. It is a PvP game. It is not a PvE game. Any other MMO on the market has better PvE encounters in it. When this game launched PvE was a side show at best. PvP was the focus. I was there on day 1 of launch and Day1 in the mists. HOTM / PVP community was literally an entirely separate game from PvE side of life in GW2. You know what I really miss it that way. Once u entered HOTM you were put in starter gear with rabbit rank and you couldn't "look cool" until you were passed the rank of tiger/bear which took months. It was a sectioned off separate part of the game with a huge community. Once they ended the separation of the communities half my friends list quit GW2. Overall every large decision they have made with PvP with the exception of removing Revenge (not raid) on Capricorn because of the in ability to balance underwater PvP was a horrible decision. Revenge on Capricorn was a more fun map tho then what they replaced it with and it took them years to even do that. Finishers also were not 20K per level advancement across the board. I took 7-8 Months for me to hit dragon before they handed it out to everyone.

They watered down the game mode and switched their focus. Thats my point. It was orignally not the way it is today. 

Edited April 19, 2022 by jdawgie.1835

[jdawgie.1835]

On 4/11/2022 at 10:59 AM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

and an un****ingbelievably high amount of synch queue match manipulation

 

On 4/11/2022 at 2:48 PM, Kozumi.5816 said:

This game mode was designed with 5v5 premades in mind. That is why its terrible with randoms.

Facts