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GW2 has 0 inventive ways of unlocking anything at endgame?


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So I'll post the TL;DR here first, below I will explain why I am asking this question and why I feel a bit cheated.   TL;DR Assumptions: 1) GW2 has no vertical progression, rather

The main issue is this game has nearly no endgame. You have Fashion Wars but 90% is locked behind Black Lion Market. Anet barely offers a new fractal or even a new raid per year. Dungeons are aba

This is categorically untrue.  As stated in GW2Efficiency roughly 90% of armors are exclusive earned in game as well as the majority of weapons.  Yes things like mount skins are exclusive to the gemst

1 hour ago, Danikat.8537 said:

According to GW2Efficiency there are 450 gem store armour skins (and that counts any which is available for all armour weights as 3 seperate skins) and 59 weapon skins.

The same site says there are 1,877 armour skins available in-game (again ones for all armour weights are counted 3 times) and 4,202 weapon skins.

So if my maths is correct 19.33% of armour skins and 1.38% of weapons come from the gem store. (And if my maths is wrong please do let me know.)

You should also include BL chest skins.

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30 minutes ago, Tasty Pudding.3764 said:

You should also include BL chest skins.

I didn't include or exclude anything. I used an existing list on a fan site. I did once try to make my own list and gave up on it partially because it included too many grey areas like this and ambiguous items and partially because new stuff kept coming out and I couldn't keep up.

If you think GW2 Efficiency is inaccurate you're welcome to make your own list and count them however you think best.

Edited by Danikat.8537
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18 hours ago, raffaa.7135 said:

Questions: 

- Is all of the horizontal progression summarized as, farm gold -> buy gems -> unlock skins in lootboxes

- Is there a reason this is never talked about in any of the videos I could find on youtube talking about GW2's strengths and weaknesses, I feel like this was hidden as some sort of ugly truth...?

 

Are you kinda new to the video game industy?

 

Your main reason to exist as a player is to buy from the gem shop.

The game itself is only the medium that encourages you to do so. Nobody cares what's going on in the game or if it is good or bad, as long as people go to the gem store.

Alone the existence of gambling loot boxes tells you a lot about how the players is perceived by the developer.

 

It's like professional sport leagues, the main point is to attract commercials and stuff as many as they can into one game.

What happens on the baseball field or hockey ring is absolutely irrelevant as long as it gathers enough people

to get the commercials in.

 

This is not an ugly truth, this is reality

Edited by Kurrilino.2706
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7 hours ago, Voltekka.2375 said:

You always have the best stats, with one set. With leggy armory, you dont ever have to worry again. How bad would it be for this game to have vertical progression? People complain raids are hard as it is. Imagine vertical progression in gw2! If endless grind is your thing to get better and better stats, you may be playing the wrong game...

What are you trying to reply to? Your response doesn't relate to my post at all.

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22 hours ago, raffaa.7135 said:

Assumptions:

 

1) GW2 has no vertical progression, rather horizontal, meaning you grind more for cosmetics, mounts, achievements, ,...

2) GW2 has 99% of these unlockables (excluding achievements) in the gem shop

3) The only way of progressing (horizontally) is by farming gold by any repetitive activity

4) There is no real value behind grinding difficult achievements for mount skin unlocks / pet unlocks / ...

1) Examples of horizontal progression with tangible gameplay effects include:

- PvE mastery points

- WvW rank abilities

- Fractal-specific equipment and account unlocks

2) It's true that there's a lot of swag in the gem shop. Legendary trinkets, legendary armor, "gen 2" legendary weapons are all big resource sinks (thanks to Gift of Fortune) but also feature a heavy achievement/scavenger-hunt component. Check out the four tiers of Ad Infinitum progression, for instance: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_Backpack:_Ad_Infinitum

"Excluding achievements" is a category error precisely because the gear you obtain with achievements rather than tradeable currencies is where all the "inventive" reward stuff is. (This game's model of "achievements" includes stuff like quests.)

3) See the list in #1: the main way of progressing "horizontally" past level 80 is playing the full breadth and depth of the game (to max out masteries) or dedicating time to specific activities to get rewards tailored to those activities (Fractal progression, WvW ranks, getting that Raid armor).

 

Like, looking at my own stuff… I've spent a fair bit of gems on outfits and mount skins because I like fashion and stuff. Many of my characters have multiple "looks," I'm very picky about colors, &c. &c. So all that is stuff where you either swipe your card or go farm some gold, sure. (Some of it isn't, though; e.g. one of my favorite skins is Warmaster's Pack — I got that by going back and doing a bunch of fiddly extra stuff in HoT. Also a lot of the best dyes were just free in birthday presents.)

But 366/366 mastery points, where did that come from? 100%ing every open-world PvE area, doing a bunch of metas, and dabbling in raids.

Skyscale, where did that come from? A week of doing scavenger hunts and JPs.

Gleam of Sentience, where did that come from? A bunch of scavenger-hunt achievements in-game.

I have a Fractal Omnipotion from grinding Fractals, for the purpose of making it easier and more lucrative to grind even more Fractals.

These are all things that represent gaining actual *capabilities,* and they're all tied to making progress in the game.

 

And the thing I want most but don't have yet? White Mantle Portal Device. If I decide to go for that I'm going to have to play a ton of raids. No amount of Silverwastes or Octovine farming is gonna help me get that thing.

 

… And, like, I don't generally *do* fungible gold-grind activities. Most of my gold comes from Fractals, which spit a bunch of account-bound resources at you as well, or from crafting and selling legendaries to convert account-specific rewards from exploration and WvW into gold I can use for whatever (in addition to Gift of Battle, the reward tracks give you account-bound Mystic Clovers directly; I craft legendaries to "cash them out" and also I can just sell my free login-reward Mystic Coins).

Edited by ASP.8093
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On 1/2/2022 at 12:57 AM, raffaa.7135 said:

Assumptions:

1) GW2 has no vertical progression, rather horizontal, meaning you grind more for cosmetics, mounts, achievements, ,...

2) GW2 has 99% of these unlockables (excluding achievements) in the gem shop

3) The only way of progressing (horizontally) is by farming gold by any repetitive activity

4) There is no real value behind grinding difficult achievements for mount skin unlocks / pet unlocks / ...

Assuming endgame starts once you complete the main story...

- I spent months unlocking the full legendary heavy and medium armor.

- I spent months unlocking the full legendary runes set, and I'm still unlocking the legendary sigils to this day.

- I spent months unlocking legendary trinkets, even all the three legendary backpacks despite only needing one. I still have two legendary trinkets to unlock.

- I spent weeks unlocking Bolt, my first and only legendary weapon.

- I spent weeks unlocking the Skyscale, and a few days unlocking the Griffon.

Not to mention the absurd amount of hours I spent playing fractals, raids, achievements and world completion. And I'm just an average PvE player, not one of those who make massive numbers.

And since I'm mostly served in gear, I spend most of my GW2 playtime playing war in WvW, which is infinite endgame.

Have you done anything of that? Because if not, you still have plenty of things to do outside "grinding gold to buy cosmetics in the gem store".

End of Dragons is coming by the way.

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A video was done on this once (by WP, I think?) and around 80% of rewards were unlockable in-game. It seems like alot more than that because a few are exclusive to gemstore (like mount skins, most outfits) but overall the majority of content is unlockable in-game and there seem to bee strict policies on how much is allowed to be placed in the gemstore averaging around 20% at any given time.

 

The endgame in MMOs is always PvP and RvR (what this game calls WvW) btw. It just feels like there's no endgame because those modes are in heavy need of improvements/overhauls right now.

 

Its impossible to make an end-game thats PvE centric because developers can't just produce boundless content forever. At best you can make it highly repeatable, which is what they've done, but monsters can never offer the same challenge as players so its always going to become stale in the long run.

Edited by Hannelore.8153
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20 hours ago, Tasty Pudding.3764 said:

You should also include BL chest skins.

BLC skins are kinda a grey area, as Danikat says, and I'm actually leaning towards calling them in game content as opposed to Gemstore.  The chest themselves are almost entirely acquired in game (with the one time exception of the Customer Appreciation package, which was Free at the time it was available) be it from drops or purchased from other players.  the keys also can be acquired in game, though as well all well know its an extremely uncommon drop or reward.  But it still can be done in game.

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You're not wrong, but having experienced the steepest side of the vertical progression ladder in other games, I realized something. Eventually there comes a point in all of your blood sweat and tears when you're grinding gear literally for the sake of grinding gear.  It's a sobering feeling knowing you duped yourself over many years.  GW2's system doesn't seem to allow hard blows like that, as the act of playing X content is endgame, not achieving milestones gated by gear.  

But, you're in good company with the feeling cheated part.  No hard work should be punished, and while the glory is in the content, there will also come a point when you realize you could play this game for hundreds of hours and not acquire any gear of intrinsic worth.

Edited by Borked.6824
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On 1/2/2022 at 12:57 AM, raffaa.7135 said:

So I'll post the TL;DR here first, below I will explain why I am asking this question and why I feel a bit cheated.

 

TL;DR

Assumptions:

1) GW2 has no vertical progression, rather horizontal, meaning you grind more for cosmetics, mounts, achievements, ,...

2) GW2 has 99% of these unlockables (excluding achievements) in the gem shop

3) The only way of progressing (horizontally) is by farming gold by any repetitive activity

4) There is no real value behind grinding difficult achievements for mount skin unlocks / pet unlocks / ...

 

Questions: 

- Is all of the horizontal progression summarized as, farm gold -> buy gems -> unlock skins in lootboxes

- Is there a reason this is never talked about in any of the videos I could find on youtube talking about GW2's strengths and weaknesses, I feel like this was hidden as some sort of ugly truth...?

 

Biggest misconceptions 

 

 

5:30 here about gw2

 

 

Why play gw2 in 2021, explaining the appeal and comparing to other games 

 

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On 1/1/2022 at 3:57 PM, raffaa.7135 said:

So I'll post the TL;DR here first, below I will explain why I am asking this question and why I feel a bit cheated.

 

TL;DR

Assumptions:

1) GW2 has no vertical progression, rather horizontal, meaning you grind more for cosmetics, mounts, achievements, ,...

2) GW2 has 99% of these unlockables (excluding achievements) in the gem shop

3) The only way of progressing (horizontally) is by farming gold by any repetitive activity

4) There is no real value behind grinding difficult achievements for mount skin unlocks / pet unlocks / ...

 

Questions: 

- Is all of the horizontal progression summarized as, farm gold -> buy gems -> unlock skins in lootboxes

- Is there a reason this is never talked about in any of the videos I could find on youtube talking about GW2's strengths and weaknesses, I feel like this was hidden as some sort of ugly truth...?

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Full story:

 

Okay, so, about 7 years ago, I started playing GW2, back then I loved the levelling I managed to get a couple characters to level 20 and I ended up stopping with gaming alltogether for private reasons (not gw2 related). Now, many years later, I come back to play this game with some friends, I did my research before selecting the first MMO I would jump back into after all these years. (I watched a lot of mmo new and I am aware of the current state of the mmo genre sadly.)

 

I watched many youtubers talk about gw2 how the endgame horizontal progression is great and how during leveling (as I remembered as well) activities are a lot more varied than other mmo's.

Sure you have plenty heart activity that feels similar, yet you get freedom in activity of choice and the number of wacky options are sometimes adorable / hilarious.... (wash the stinky cows).

After leveling to level 40 I felt I wanted to reward such an amazing game by purchasing expansions PoF & HoT, especially since I wanted to do everything this game has to offer.

 

Now I come to a sad conclusion, as I go over the list of mount skins, I notice ALL of them say "This is only available from the Black Lion Trading Company". 

I feel cheated, many people talk about the following points:

- The immense world to discover

- It's a game where any activity is rewarded

- Horizontal progression 

- Many skins many many many skins

- The creativity of the game

 

Put all of these together and I was hoping for a game where at level cap, difficult achievements, hard as f*** raids et cetera would reward me with beautiful skins of various gear, mounts & pets.

Nothing feels more awesome than to earn a beautiful purple dragon after you defeated it in a raid that takes you weeks to clear the first time. (think back to the good ol' days for those who were there for it, old school wow comes to mind).

 

Now a clear point to make: 

I'm not calling the game kitten, I'm simply trying to figure out the following questions:

- Is all of the horizontal progression summarized as, farm gold -> buy gems -> unlock skins in lootboxes

- Is there a reason this is never talked about in any of the videos I could find on youtube talking about GW2's strengths and weaknesses, I feel like this was hidden as some sort of ugly truth...?

 

 

I am still excited for this game, I just feel slightly cheated, what am I completing the entire world map for if not a fun reward? :s

If anyone out there cares enough about this to have a nice conversation about this, I would love to find the passion back I had right before I discovered this, because I am struggling somewhat with what I am going to do once I reach endgame... break off or continue 😕

 

Best wishes to all, the GW2 community has been spectacularly friendly and nice to me I love you all, 

Happy 2022 ❤️

 

I do not agree with assumption 2 but would enjoy more rewards that do not involve farming and spending gold.

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2 hours ago, Robban.1256 said:

Biggest misconceptions 

 

 

5:30 here about gw2

 

 

Why play gw2 in 2021, explaining the appeal and comparing to other games 

 

All 3 links are paid advertisements from anet. You have to look in the comments to see they are either sponsored by arenanet directly or are part of the partner program. These opinions all a conflict of interest.

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6 minutes ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

All 3 links are paid advertisements from anet. 

They arent , dont say about something you dont fully understand. Only josh video was sponsored, sure all is arenanet partners but that wont make the video sponsored

Edited by Robban.1256
Added additional info that I missed
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Just now, Robban.1256 said:

They arent , dont say about something you dont fully understand

Mighty teapot

In the comments

"This channel is supported by ArenaNet!"

Josh Strike Haze

Video clearly has a paid promotion link when you start it.

In the comments: 

"Thanks to Guild Wars 2 for Sponsoring!"

Mukluk 

In the comments

"As an ArenaNet Partner, both of these links are sponsored by ArenaNet"

 

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30 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

All ArenaNet Partners are sponsored.  Do you think they never say anything ill against the game?  🙄

There is a line, remember legendary armor and reshaders during a live stream, Anet pulled the leash on that one. But the point is there is still a financial incentive to overhype some parts of the game and downplay flaws. They still have a conflict of interest. One of the most glaring flaws is there are very few rewards earnable in game, and can not be bypassed by gems to gold. It is almost like the entire GW2 endgame was designed this way (which it probably is).

 

Edit: Started watching tpots misconceptions video about ingame vs gemstore rewards. He majorly overcounts ingame rewards and undercount gemstore items. For example he said there were only 900 gemstore weapon skins, when there are over 1000 black lion skin in the collections. These are not even counting the one offs.  

Edited by Shadowmoon.7986
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personally I am only sad about the mount skins that 99.9% are store only besides the only one in WvW for 200 gold to unlock
otherwise I dont mind the armor weapon skins on the bltc as there are many great option in game too

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All right, so cognitive biases are things that we all have. They're born out of how our brains interpret the world, and are largely effective shortcuts to keep us from being overwhelmed by the amount of data we sort every day. They are not malfunctions, they aren't insults, they're part of our daily lives.

Flashy gemstore skins will appear to be more common than they actually are due to a variety of these cognitive biases. They are flashy, so they they call attention, taking up more of our focus than the common skins we see everyday. One of our cognitive biases is to overestimate things based on how much they stand out. When a new gemstore skin comes out, that triggers more cognitive biases. Novelty looms large. There's a tendency that when we notice something for the first time, we start to notice it elsewhere, and tell ourselves it must be everywhere. Another cognitive bias.

All of us operate with these, and it's no wonder that we can vastly overestimate how many flashy gemstore skins there are in game. It's not a personal thing. It's not an insult, or an attack. It's just the way our brains work.

Edited by Gibson.4036
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4 hours ago, Borked.6824 said:

 But, you're in good company with the feeling cheated part.  No hard work should be punished, and while the glory is in the content, there will also come a point when you realize you could play this game for hundreds of hours and not acquire any gear of intrinsic worth.

Realising that doesn't necessarily mean you'll feel cheated.

I knew when I got my first character to level 80 and fully equipped in exotics (which was the top tier at the time) that I was largely "done" with gearing her and for me that was exciting. It meant I could focus on playing whatever I felt like, what I'd enjoy, instead of what I was required to do to get into the stuff I actually wanted to play.

That was in 2013 and since then she's got through 2 other sets (one exotic with different stats, one ascended pieced together gradually over time) and most of my characters have had 1 or 2 at most.

It doesn't bother me at all that most of the items I get don't have useful stats. If anything it can be a bit annoying when they do because then I have to sort out which character to give it to, maybe change the stats, get upgrades...it's not a big problem but I often end up sticking them in the bank for a while until I feel like doing that rather than using it right away. A new skin is at least as exciting to me, especially if it's one I know will suit one of my characters.

Which might explain why most of my characters are still in exotics, or a mix of exotic and ascended, while I've spent a lot of time and effort chasing down skins I like.
 

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13 minutes ago, Danikat.8537 said:

Realising that doesn't necessarily mean you'll feel cheated.

I knew when I got my first character to level 80 and fully equipped in exotics (which was the top tier at the time) that I was largely "done" with gearing her and for me that was exciting. It meant I could focus on playing whatever I felt like, what I'd enjoy, instead of what I was required to do to get into the stuff I actually wanted to play.

That was in 2013 and since then she's got through 2 other sets (one exotic with different stats, one ascended pieced together gradually over time) and most of my characters have had 1 or 2 at most.

It doesn't bother me at all that most of the items I get don't have useful stats. If anything it can be a bit annoying when they do because then I have to sort out which character to give it to, maybe change the stats, get upgrades...it's not a big problem but I often end up sticking them in the bank for a while until I feel like doing that rather than using it right away. A new skin is at least as exciting to me, especially if it's one I know will suit one of my characters.

Which might explain why most of my characters are still in exotics, or a mix of exotic and ascended, while I've spent a lot of time and effort chasing down skins I like.
 

Sorry, my post was a bit vague.  I was attempting to lump appearance/skins as equals to stats.  My point, similar to yours is that stat tiers are moot, and appearance is the only identifier of "end game" distinction, which can be somewhat insulting to acquire.

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59 minutes ago, wanya.1697 said:

personally I am only sad about the mount skins that 99.9% are store only

Why does this make you sad?  Play the game, whatever content you enjoy.  Exchange gems for gold.  Purchase mount skins. 

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Assumptions:

1) GW2 has no vertical progression, rather horizontal, meaning you grind more for cosmetics, mounts, achievements, ,...

Actually what you call "horizontal progression" means you won't have to grind like crazy to level up so you can be able to play in high level areas, instead, you can enjoy everything quite fast.

Is there a game where you don't grind to get something? I mean, seriously?

 

2) GW2 has 99% of these unlockables (excluding achievements) in the gem shop

Wrong. Except for a few QOL items (like extra bag slot, extra bank etc.) everything else is purely cosmetic.

 

3) The only way of progressing (horizontally) is by farming gold by any repetitive activity

You're playing the game wrong. I would think that you're stuck in the rut of how other MMOs are played and you didn't get how GW2 works. You keep talking about "progressing". What exactly do you mean by this progression? Top gear? Top titles? Top fashion? Seems to me like you're obsessed with the end game as some kind of personal achievement, and you want to get there without grinding OR paying. ALL games out there require you to do one or the other. GW2 requires you to play the game. Because that is the point that you seem to miss - you're playing the game for fun. If you're playing the game to have a feeling of "I'm the best" and not to have fun and meet people and enjoy, you're in the wrong MMO.

 

4) There is no real value behind grinding difficult achievements for mount skin unlocks / pet unlocks / ...

So what exactly is "value" for you? You want the achievements without grinding, but you also want them without paying. I honestly fail to understand what you are complaining about - that you're not given everything for free?

 

Questions: 

- Is all of the horizontal progression summarized as, farm gold -> buy gems -> unlock skins in lootboxes

Seems to me that you have not even discovered 10% of this game.

- Is there a reason this is never talked about in any of the videos I could find on youtube talking about GW2's strengths and weaknesses, I feel like this was hidden as some sort of ugly truth...?

Still didn't get what the "ugly truth" is. That there is not enough free stuff?

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Full story:

 

Okay, so, about 7 years ago, I started playing GW2, back then I loved the levelling I managed to get a couple characters to level 20 and I ended up stopping with gaming alltogether for private reasons (not gw2 related). Now, many years later, I come back to play this game with some friends, I did my research before selecting the first MMO I would jump back into after all these years. (I watched a lot of mmo new and I am aware of the current state of the mmo genre sadly.)

So you haven't been playing long? At least, not enough to explore everything the game has to offer.

 

I watched many youtubers talk about gw2 how the endgame horizontal progression is great and how during leveling (as I remembered as well) activities are a lot more varied than other mmo's.

Sure you have plenty heart activity that feels similar, yet you get freedom in activity of choice and the number of wacky options are sometimes adorable / hilarious.... (wash the stinky cows).

After leveling to level 40 I felt I wanted to reward such an amazing game by purchasing expansions PoF & HoT, especially since I wanted to do everything this game has to offer.

 

Now I come to a sad conclusion, as I go over the list of mount skins, I notice ALL of them say "This is only available from the Black Lion Trading Company". 

I feel cheated, many people talk about the following points:

- The immense world to discover

- It's a game where any activity is rewarded

- Horizontal progression 

- Many skins many many many skins

- The creativity of the game

 

Put all of these together and I was hoping for a game where at level cap, difficult achievements, hard as f*** raids et cetera would reward me with beautiful skins of various gear, mounts & pets.

I'm a VERY casual player, been playing both GW1 and GW2 since they came on the market. I don't play more than an average of 6 hours a week. I was still able to get some ascended and legendaries, without "grinding", just having fun and participating in stuff. I usually get stuff in the gemstore if I REALLY like something, and most of the time I just exchange in-game gold for gems. I get quite a bit of BL tickets and lion statues through gameplay. I did, rarely, purchase gems using money. But nothing to talk about, really. Yes, I'm all into the "fashion wars" and all my characters (I have 14 of them) have been carefully created following a specific color scheme, I do have some outfits, yes, but they're generally dressed with skins that you unlock in game. I even have a few that actually have equipped a legendary but I reskinned it to something that matched the color scheme of the character.

Nothing feels more awesome than to earn a beautiful purple dragon after you defeated it in a raid that takes you weeks to clear the first time. (think back to the good ol' days for those who were there for it, old school wow comes to mind).

Ummm... a raid that takes you weeks to clear.... isn't that grinding?

 

Now a clear point to make: 

I'm not calling the game kitten, I'm simply trying to figure out the following questions:

- Is all of the horizontal progression summarized as, farm gold -> buy gems -> unlock skins in lootboxes

Again, define "progression"

- Is there a reason this is never talked about in any of the videos I could find on youtube talking about GW2's strengths and weaknesses, I feel like this was hidden as some sort of ugly truth...?

I still don't get what the "ugly truth" is.

 

 

I am still excited for this game, I just feel slightly cheated, what am I completing the entire world map for if not a fun reward?:s

Errr... you get a "fun reward" when you complete EACH map and a nice "gift of exploration" when you complete the world map. What exactly are you referring to?

If anyone out there cares enough about this to have a nice conversation about this, I would love to find the passion back I had right before I discovered this, because I am struggling somewhat with what I am going to do once I reach endgame... break off or continue 😕

Ummm... there really IS no endgame. The game is to play and have fun. I repeat, you seem to be stuck in the WoW mode of seeing things and if you aren't able to actually explore and enjoy GW2 and get in what the spirit of it is, maybe, really, this is not a game for you.

Best wishes to all, the GW2 community has been spectacularly friendly and nice to me I love you all, 

Happy 2022

Same to you!

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