Rebranding and Repackaging Guild Wars 2

[IYield.1204]

I recently got my wife into Guild Wars 2 and she loves the gameplay and it’s story.

Despite this, she found it very convoluted and messy trying to figure out what to buy in what order. Whether to play the living world or the expansions, what is the difference etc.

I thought it may be an excellent opportunity once the Dragon Cycle is over, after either EoD or LW S6, to change the model and sell GW2 with all expansions, and all LW seasons as one product. Perhaps rebranding as ‘Guild Wars 2: The Dragon Cycle’ for example.

This could be how all new players coming into the game begin their Journey and eliminate the very messy model of releasing seasons for free initially, then selling them individually on the gem store. 
 

Just a thought and looking forward to EoD!!!

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I can't say I'd be for losing out on acquiring future Living World Season at no cost. How would that even work, if Living World Seasons only come bundled with the previous expansion?  Are you suggesting they raise the price of expansion?

[Danikat.8537]

This has been suggested many times, and I agree it would be helpful to offer some sort of 'complete' pack (with a disclaimer that new content will continue to be released) for players who want it.

Even if they don't want it the existance of such a package would at least make it clearer that there is more content than just the base game and the expansions and if you don't buy it right away you should expect to find some parts locked until you do, which might reduce the amount of people getting confused and angry when they discover that later on.

(As for working out what order to play, or buy, things in the simplest way to do that is to look at the story journal in the Hero Panel, that lists all of them, including things you haven't yet unlocked, in order.)

[IYield.1204]

6 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

I can't say I'd be for losing out on acquiring future Living World Season at no cost. How would that even work, if Living World Seasons only come bundled with the previous expansion?  Are you suggesting they raise the price of expansion?

I agree, and while getting the Living World Episodes for free initially has been awesome, GW2 is already a very economic game and relatively cheap to get into. 
 

Im not certain of the mechanics of what they could do going forward, but if there was ever an opportunity to change how content is released and maybe make more money in the process, I think it’s soon!  It would also provide some clarity on where the franchise is currently and then where they go in the future.

[Kurrilino.2706]

I think they should leave the living world alone.

What happens in the past, happens in the past and should only be summarized somewhere in an archive in Lions Arch.

 

I would really love to be alive during the moon landing (yes, it happened) but i was born waaaaay later.

This is how history works and one of the main selling points of GW2 is the progressing story.

It's also very confusing for a new or even returning player to handle all those thousands of  currencies we have now, all doing the same.

When GW2 started, we had gold and dungeon tokens.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Kurrilino.2706

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

On 1/2/2022 at 10:47 AM, Kurrilino.2706 said:

I think they should leave the living world alone.

What happens in the past, happens in the past and should only be summarized somewhere in an archive in Lions Arch.

 

I would really love to be alive during the moon landing (yes, it happened) but i was born waaaaay later.

This is how history works and one of the main selling points of GW2 is the progressing story.

It's also very confusing for a new or even returning player to handle all those thousands of  currencies we have now, all doing the same.

When GW2 started, we had gold and dungeon tokens.

Do you mean go without  content in between expansions? Or do you mean go back to the way Living World Season 1 worked?

Edited January 6, 2022 by Inculpatus cedo.9234
typo

[Naxos.2503]

I just think the customer needs to be informed better by the website of what is available and what everything contains. While the wiki is very complete, a first time customer doesn't actually check there most of the time, nor would they have the idea to, reliance on the wiki comes with experience when you play the game already. The website should have a page on the store recapping what Everything does and cost, Living World seasons and expansions alike. The pricing is by itself fair, and even the way everything is split (although packs could be made available for convenience sake), the information just isn't clear on the website.

[AgentMoore.9453]

2 hours ago, Naxos.2503 said:

the information just isn't clear on the website

This, big time. I'd welcome a big beefy everything burger package that contained all expansions and living story, but at minimum they should first clear up the language on the products already available for purchase.

Right now you can go to their shop and buy the 'Collection Edition', the flavor text for which states that you'll: "Get everything you need to experience Tyria, a vast living world."

Except it doesn't come with living world chapters or even close to everything you'd need to experience the story (LS1 can't be played anymore, for one), something a new user wouldn't realize at time of purchase. If an ad says you'll have everything you need, you'd rightly assume it's the product that has everything - and it doesn't. It's misleading, and after being left like this for so long despite so much consumer feedback, a person could be under the impression that it's misleading on purpose to make the game look cheaper than it actually is.

Echoing the above points that the pricing of LS and the game itself are fine, but oh lord the packaging.

[Klowdy.3126]

4 hours ago, IYield.1204 said:

I recently got my wife into Guild Wars 2 and she loves the gameplay and it’s story.

Despite this, she found it very convoluted and messy trying to figure out what to buy in what order. Whether to play the living world or the expansions, what is the difference etc.

I thought it may be an excellent opportunity once the Dragon Cycle is over, after either EoD or LW S6, to change the model and sell GW2 with all expansions, and all LW seasons as one product. Perhaps rebranding as ‘Guild Wars 2: The Dragon Cycle’ for example.

This could be how all new players coming into the game begin their Journey and eliminate the very messy model of releasing seasons for free initially, then selling them individually on the gem store. 
 

Just a thought and looking forward to EoD!!!

Overthinking will lead to inaction. Sometimes, I stare at my computer thinking about what I want to play, and just walk away 10 minutes later. The best times I have gaming are when I play the first game that comes to mind, and live in that moment. 

 

Your wife needs to start playing the game, and buy the next thing she wants as she needs it. It will be easier to choose when you're just doing, and not making a spreadsheet of enjoyment and entertainment. Finish the main story, and give yourself 10 seconds to decide where to go next, and never question yourself.

 

That said, expansions bring much more than LW stuff. Maybe a good point to start would be looking into the e-specs, and deciding which one you want, or just choosing PoF for the mounts in order to make everything easier.

[Obliviscaris.6937]

You're spot on OP. The overwhelming-ness (is that a word?) does drive people away in the sense that "I could be doing something else rather than working out what I'm meant to be doing next". Players have a similar experience with other games like LoTR Online, and Star Wars: The Old Republic. It's easy to feel lost after you've just found your footing after the mamin storyline, feeling like you need to build your familiarity back up again. And if you're interested  in the story, it helps to have things 'packaged' in such a way.

 

Also, Danikat nailed it.

 

7 hours ago, Klowdy.3126 said:

It will be easier to choose when you're just doing, and not making a spreadsheet of enjoyment and entertainment.

 

Really disingenuous to say something like this, and a bit confusing as to where this angle came from 🤐

Edited January 3, 2022 by Obliviscaris.6937
Clarity

[Vayne.8563]

Anet needs to do something. The way it stands right now is unsustainable.  The cost of living world will get higher and higher as time goes on, and those that see it will start wondering why they should pay so much for a game, without knowing up front that it will cost that much.

I don't know Anet's budget, so I can't say they can give them away for free with expansions, but there should be some packages that include living world up front.   You could have a package like the Ultimate and another package like the Ultimate Story that instead of included gems, includes the entire Living World up to date.

[Randulf.7614]

Ultimately they will have metrics showing how many players buy the seasons after the expacs to show whether it actually is an issue or not.

Personally it would make more sense to bundle the existing seasons since they gave them away all year for free anyway. Either just inclusive, or as an ultimate package as suggested above

[Maltyrius.2961]

Somewhat related: I just returned and been working on my glider/mount masteries. Is there a plan in EOD to make these baseline in some way?
 

It’s difficult to imagine a newby who wants to jump in with their friends in EOD only to realize they have to go to older content for an extended length of time to be minimally viable.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

38 minutes ago, Maltyrius.2961 said:

Somewhat related: I just returned and been working on my glider/mount masteries. Is there a plan in EOD to make these baseline in some way?
 

It’s difficult to imagine a newby who wants to jump in with their friends in EOD only to realize they have to go to older content for an extended length of time to be minimally viable.

Glider and Raptor are included in End of Dragons.  They may be just base items; I don't think they will come with full Masteries. 

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

They've already explained why they don't, and even talked about the data a bit in the past. Basically they found almost no one plays Living World until the next one is released, they just get the latest expo, boost to 80 and start playing the content without ever playing the (historical) story.

 

However, if the player is still with the game when a new story comes around, they tend to play it. Thus almost all their money is made from the future, not past content.

 

This is for example why you see stuff like the Skyscale added that required buying previous LWS4 episodes.

 

They tried to fix this at one time with a New Player Experience (NPE), designed to avoid overwhelming new players and get them hooked on the game long enough to play the story and to grind their characters out manually rather than just boosting. but it was met with alot of critisism since it watered the game down even further when it already didn't do a good job of teaching new players the basics.

 

I don't agree with it, (and I think the lack of LWS1 especially hurts player uptake), but its how it is. If they ever repackaged the game, it'd have to have yet another NPE, a somewhat playable version of LWS1 included, and so on in order to actually attract players and keep them here for more than a few months.

 

All we can do is hope for a concise 10th Anniversary Edition.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Hannelore.8153

[kharmin.7683]

2 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

They've already explained why they don't, and even talked about the data a bit in the past. Basically they found almost no one plays Living World until the next one is released, they just get the latest expo, boost to 80 and start playing the content without ever playing the (historical) story.

 

 

I'm that statistic, for the most part.  I don't boost to 80 because all of my toons are already there.  I might play the story through on one toon, but the rest?  Nah.  Seen it, done it.  Let me get my masteries and move on.  Heck, there are some LS I haven't completed because, for me, they are tedious and often full of cheese mechanics with bosses full of HP that do nothing more than consume time to kill.  I'd rather spend my limited on-line gaming time in more dynamic content which open world does well enough for me.

[robertthebard.8150]

8 hours ago, Obliviscaris.6937 said:

You're spot on OP. The overwhelming-ness (is that a word?) does drive people away in the sense that "I could be doing something else rather than working out what I'm meant to be doing next". Players have a similar experience with other games like LoTR Online, and Star Wars: The Old Republic. It's easy to feel lost after you've just found your footing after the mamin storyline, feeling like you need to build your familiarity back up again. And if you're interested  in the story, it helps to have things 'packaged' in such a way.

 

Also, Danikat nailed it.

 

 

Really disingenuous to say something like this, and a bit confusing as to where this angle came from 🤐

I just looked at the Hero Panel, where it outlines the entire story of the game, in chronological order...  It wasn't all that confusing.

[Klowdy.3126]

8 hours ago, Obliviscaris.6937 said:

You're spot on OP. The overwhelming-ness (is that a word?) does drive people away in the sense that "I could be doing something else rather than working out what I'm meant to be doing next". Players have a similar experience with other games like LoTR Online, and Star Wars: The Old Republic. It's easy to feel lost after you've just found your footing after the mamin storyline, feeling like you need to build your familiarity back up again. And if you're interested  in the story, it helps to have things 'packaged' in such a way.

 

Also, Danikat nailed it.

 

 

Really disingenuous to say something like this, and a bit confusing as to where this angle came from 🤐

It's not. Gut feelings when trying to decide between which video game you want to play are always better than spending your time like Jim Carey in 23. If you read the rest of it, you would have known that came from me saying to play to 80, finish the story, and decide right then and there where you want to go next. It's a video game. Do not overthink it. Play it.

[Gehenna.3625]

On 1/2/2022 at 7:47 PM, Kurrilino.2706 said:

I think they should leave the living world alone.

What happens in the past, happens in the past and should only be summarized somewhere in an archive in Lions Arch.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean with that.

On 1/2/2022 at 7:47 PM, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

I would really love to be alive during the moon landing (yes, it happened) but i was born waaaaay later.

This is how history works and one of the main selling points of GW2 is the progressing story.

Well, this is what makes video games different from real life. Duh. In a video game people come to, in this case, the world of Tyria new and haven't experienced the stories yet and they can. The whole point of a video game is to offer content. LS1 came and went and they saw that it was a mistake because as of LS2 they made it different for a reason. I mean the same goes for the main story. Would you say the same about the main story? If not then you're being horribly inconsistent. If so you would take a big chunk of content and context away from new players.

On 1/2/2022 at 7:47 PM, Kurrilino.2706 said:

It's also very confusing for a new or even returning player to handle all those thousands of  currencies we have now, all doing the same.

When GW2 started, we had gold and dungeon tokens.

You exaggerate but there are many currencies indeed. The problem that I have with your general point is that you want to streamline everything and make things all easy. The issue with that is that the game will inevitable be boring and be boring quickly when you go down that road too much. 

 

[Tiviana.2650]

I agree with the op, new players get confused, then get upset that they have to buy side content that is actually a main part of the story. I think bundling the lws up to and including the PoF/IBS story's into the EoD expansion is a great idea. When releasing an expansion release all the previous ones LWS with it. Any LWS that comes out in the new expansion you have to log on for or buy while that expansion is current. I think that is a far better way of doing it.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

So, these new bundled expansions that include all previous Living World Season/Episodes will be more expensive?  Players that previously unlocked them for free will now have to pay for them?

Or, these new bundled expansions will cost the same, and ArenaNet will lose out on that revenue?  New players will always wait until a new expansion is released before joining the game?

[Ashantara.8731]

On 1/2/2022 at 7:20 PM, IYield.1204 said:

Despite this, she found it very convoluted and messy trying to figure out what to buy in what order. Whether to play the living world or the expansions, what is the difference etc.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Releases
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Story_Journal#Storylines

And I agree, after EoD, there should be a complete package for newbies - at an appropriate price, of course.

[Danikat.8537]

7 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

So, these new bundled expansions that include all previous Living World Season/Episodes will be more expensive?  Players that previously unlocked them for free will now have to pay for them?

Or, these new bundled expansions will cost the same, and ArenaNet will lose out on that revenue?  New players will always wait until a new expansion is released before joining the game?

Why would you have to buy it again if you've already got it? That's like assuming you have to buy the 'GW2 Collection' which includes EoD, HoT and PoF instead of just buying EoD if you've already got the previous expansions.

My suggestion, and the way I interpreted the OP's post is that after EoD is released they'd offer 3 versions of the game (all of which include the base game):

• EoD on it's own - for existing players who just want the new expansion.
• Collection: HoT, PoF and EoD - for new players who want all the expansion features.
• 'The Story so Far': HoT, PoF, EoD, and Living World Seasons 2 - 5 - for new players who are sure they want everything up front.

Maybe the bundled versions would offer a slight discount over buying everything separately, like how the Collection version currently costs £44 compared to the £50 it would cost to buy HoT+PoF then EoD separately, but it would of course be more expensive than buying a version which includes less content.

The important thing is if someone is sure they want all the content in the game right away they can get it with 1 purchase instead of having to do a whole series of separate transactions, or thinking they've got everything because they bought the most expensive package which says it's "everything you need to experience Tyria" and then finding out later that's not true.

If they don't want to buy everything right away they can try the game on a free account, or buy a cheaper package, but even then having this option available should help by making it clearer what there is available to buy later on.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I see.  I didn't understand from the post I replied to that there was a choice.

Unless it's very clear, I still see some future laments from those that purchased Living World Seasons that they were 'milked/cheated' because they could have earned them in-game. 

Also, returning players might have some Seasons/Episodes unlocked.  Will there be more options for those that do?

No matter what, there always seem to be some dissatisfaction posted on the forums; even previously when the buy page did mention Living World (and players/purchasers do get the end of Icebrood Saga now).

[AgentMoore.9453]

19 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

No matter what, there always seem to be some dissatisfaction posted on the forums

I mean sure, but it's a lot less often that someone complains about buying an honestly-marketed product than buying one with obscurity in its advertising (or outright incorrect advertising as was the case with the Lipcat and the Legionnaire's Chair). I feel like more players would be helped than hurt if they knew up front the full extent of available DLC at the time they make their first purchase, not as a surprise later.

Quote

I still see some future laments from those that purchased Living World Seasons that they were 'milked/cheated' because they could have earned them in-game. 

Someone could conceivably complain about the fact that a living world package could be bought by a new player, but... why? What would be the relatable backbone of that argument? 'I'm mad because I paid cash to get all available DLC up front when instead I could have paid for part of it by grinding for gold'? As someone who's used to paying cash for DLC, I can't say I'm particularly moved by that.