Shieldbash.5304 Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 its goddamn ridiculous, a class that can spam fears, and aoes, hold points solo, and use shrouds gets Lich! 20 seconds of 1000+ vitality? This is bull kitten! Lich needs to be removed from PVP like all the other OP Elite skills, or it needs its time lowered to 5-8 secs! 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar.3568 Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 Lich isn't op, Dodge into it and stay on his back it will Never hit you. It's pretty strong and can delete in fights but learn to play issues are still learn to play issues 1 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmBotXD.1430 Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 3 minutes ago, Avatar.3568 said: Lich isn't op, Dodge into it and stay on his back it will Never hit you. It's pretty strong and can delete in fights but learn to play issues are still learn to play issues the fact that you can counter something doesnt mean it is not overpowered if they introduce 500s insta stun it will be busted while still technically having counterplay, just stub-break 5Head. In the same vein necro lich still has other skills, one of which is an aoe fear that they can use to teleport, so your amazing strategy requires you to dodge lich attacks ( while being close anyways ) then dodge fear, and then have to teleport to the lich afterwards. And that assums that necro isnt pew pewing from no port spot, or standing on top of vomit of team aoe, or ward line from guard, or just standing inside its own fear ring. 9 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar.3568 Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, FarmBotXD.1430 said: the fact that you can counter something doesnt mean it is not overpowered if they introduce 500s insta stun it will be busted while still technically having counterplay, just stub-break 5Head. In the same vein necro lich still has other skills, one of which is an aoe fear that they can use to teleport, so your amazing strategy requires you to dodge lich attacks ( while being close anyways ) then dodge fear, and then have to teleport to the lich afterwards. And that assums that necro isnt pew pewing from no port spot, or standing on top of vomit of team aoe, or ward line from guard, or just standing inside its own fear ring. Bro, you Literally counter lich by walking, it's not an 500s insta stun, it's just walking, that most people don't do it is just because they don't know it Edited January 3, 2022 by Avatar.3568 1 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma.1503 Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 Imagine trying to side node as necro in a world where Hammer Warrior is good. Like the worlds edgiest game of ping pong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugchriss.2046 Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 3 hours ago, Avatar.3568 said: Bro, you Literally counter lich by walking lmao. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guirssane.7082 Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 Dodge and line of sight, it's not that hard to counter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anduriell.6280 Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 10 hours ago, Shieldbash.5304 said: its goddamn ridiculous, a class that can spam fears, and aoes, hold points solo, and use shrouds gets Lich! 20 seconds of 1000+ vitality? This is bull kitten! Lich needs to be removed from PVP like all the other OP Elite skills, or it needs its time lowered to 5-8 secs! Not to burst your bubble but after checking your previous post i think i can give your some constructive counterpoint about your L2P issues. As i read you are playing warrior and ranger. As warrior i don't have experience so i can not help you but about ranger you should not have any issues with necros. At least you can avoid the combat if they are equipping one of those Perma-shroud builds so annoying to deal with. Range is your friend. That is extremely important for reaper but even against core Longbow will benefit you the most. Don't be afraid of pewpew them from distance, their effective range is 900 (staff marks are easy to avoid) and your LB is 1500. Even Lich with the overtunned dps Deathly claws at 1200 are not enough if you go max range with those. Generaly speaking avoid melee with necro except when they just come out from shroud, you have a 10s window which you can use to deal some burst and go back to range. Usually smokescale allows you to close the gap really quickly, in Core Swoop can be used, less effective thou. CCs and immobs are your friend. Pet's abilities are specially effective against most necros because they usually focus on the player. When they go to into lich you want them to drop the transformation as soon as possible as the Autos are ridiculously damaging, so don't hesitate to use the burst to force them out. CC will work if you cooperate with your pet sending your AI to CC them. Keep an eye in the stab, it applies every 3 seconds but it's just one stack. An smokescale works well against it. Their rotation includes using your strikes to replenish the shroud. To avoid that do hit as little as possible when they are using Spectral Armor. Mauls are a good skill to deal damage while restoring shroud as little as possible. Soulbeast is the best equipped to deal with necros. About the complain: I agree Lich needs some tuning down on the dealthy claws skill by reducing the range or reduce the damage. I would personally reduce the range. Right now there is no real counterplay to the transformation because of the range+damage of the autoattacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 Nobody uses reflect huh. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalisto.5780 Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 (edited) 18 hours ago, Shieldbash.5304 said: its goddamn ridiculous, a class that can spam fears, and aoes, hold points solo, and use shrouds gets Lich! 20 seconds of 1000+ vitality? This is bull kitten! Lich needs to be removed from PVP like all the other OP Elite skills, or it needs its time lowered to 5-8 secs! The problem with necro is the 50% reduction to all dmg types from shroud, which is like a 3rd hp, I'd start lowering it to 30%, i'd also add 20 secs cooldown to fear ring and get rid of blood ress. This changes would bring necros in line with they should be doing. Edited January 3, 2022 by Khalisto.5780 9 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shieldbash.5304 Posted January 3, 2022 Author Share Posted January 3, 2022 2 hours ago, Guirssane.7082 said: Dodge and line of sight, it's not that hard to counter... So your cure to OP skills are to not face them? So sorry team a Necro Lich is on the node we lose! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shieldbash.5304 Posted January 3, 2022 Author Share Posted January 3, 2022 29 minutes ago, Khalisto.5780 said: The problem with necro is the 50% reduction to all dmg types from shroud, which is like a 3rd hp, i'd also add 20 secs cooldown to fear ring and get rid of blood ress. This changes would bring necros in line with they should be doing. Exactly, I could see if Necros were squishy ~ They're Not! I could see if Necros couldn't Heal ~ they Can! I could see if Necros did little DPS and had no Burst ~ They DO! They have so much utility, cc, healing, burst and multiple walls to break down before you can kill them! Its beyond broken, I have to do 60,000 damage to a Necro to kill them! 3 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morwath.9817 Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 Lich is certainly poor design and should go away... but please, don't nerf it, replace it with new ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 29 minutes ago, Morwath.9817 said: Lich is certainly poor design and should go away... but please, don't nerf it, replace it with new ability. I would take old or new Grimm Specter over the transformation but Lich is likely never going to be replaced because it is an iconic ability. Wouldn't be surprised if its classes as one of those abilities that "has to exist". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma.1503 Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 9 hours ago, Guirssane.7082 said: Dodge and line of sight, it's not that hard to counter... While I'm of the personal opinion that nerfing Necro is the wrong course of action. I would like to point out that this is generally bad advice. This works against Lich just fine, but one of the major strengths of necro (especailly minionmancer and scourge) is their ability to pressure you behind line of sight. Shades and staff marks are both excellent at pressuing people behind pillars. Meanwhile minions can hurass people out from behind pillars in the same way that ranger pets can. This is a big reason why Necro is so dominant in 2v2 and 3v3 formats. When people are hugging pillars, the Necro on each team can get free pressure on the opposing team and force them to leave their hiding spot. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zizekent.2398 Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 21 hours ago, Avatar.3568 said: Bro, you Literally counter lich by walking, it's not an 500s insta stun, it's just walking, that most people don't do it is just because they don't know it Again, the fact that you can counter something doesnt mean it is not overpowered. By that logic, the old Full Counter wasn't op because "it's counterable" "just stow and dont proc it, it's counterable" lol. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guirssane.7082 Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, Shieldbash.5304 said: So your cure to OP skills are to not face them? So sorry team a Necro Lich is on the node we lose! Temporizing cooldown by playing defensive seems odd to you? Might wanna step up ur game then Edited January 3, 2022 by Guirssane.7082 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugchriss.2046 Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 I don't understand how you people can genuinely think that lich is ok as it is rn when a full condi necro build can still land 2k+ raw damage. Just imagine if holo/herald were able to condi burst while playing berzerker. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zohariel.5708 Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 I now quite regularly see players join games playing mesmer/warrior/thief and swap to necro during warm-up. Never see it for other classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 7 hours ago, Eugchriss.2046 said: I don't understand how you people can genuinely think that lich is ok as it is rn when a full condi necro build can still land 2k+ raw damage. Just imagine if holo/herald were able to condi burst while playing berzerker. Can you explain to me your version of condition burst? Because if its dying after 5 seconds (and has to be that to get the full stacks off and its likely more because of GCDs). is not burst. And is it comparable to lets say rev shiro + sword 3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mik.3401 Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 I think the OP points are valid. Yes Lich and other broken mechanics can be countered but I think this is not the point. The point is, having access to this many broken mechanics is unfair no matter if countering them is a l2p issue or not. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greedywholesome.9081 Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 A power necro, traited and specced to do dps should be able to do high damage on lich because they are glassy and can easily get downed while on lich form. Now a core carrion necro doing high dps on lich is a bit too much. Now when I do play necro, I play high dps glass reaper and even then, I use the shout for my elite coz... i dont know, I feel cheap and cheesy whenever I pop lich form and I feel brain cells dying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 17 hours ago, Eugchriss.2046 said: I don't understand how you people can genuinely think that lich is ok as it is rn when a full condi necro build can still land 2k+ raw damage. Just imagine if holo/herald were able to condi burst while playing berzerker. Well when u consider the vast majority of pvp players in gw2 have bandwagoned to necro due to its op'ness some time ago among the other few blatantly op specs its easy to understand why the majority of players now think it's fine, also understandable why the pvp is in the state its in. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flumek.9043 Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 On 1/3/2022 at 1:44 AM, Shieldbash.5304 said: its goddamn ridiculous, a class that can spam fears, and aoes, hold points solo, and use shrouds gets Lich! 20 seconds of 1000+ vitality? This is bull kitten! Lich needs to be removed from PVP like all the other OP Elite skills, or it needs its time lowered to 5-8 secs! How about 10seconds ? Cz thats how long it lasts. l2p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentfir.7430 Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 1 hour ago, Flumek.9043 said: How about 10seconds ? Cz thats how long it lasts. l2p People don't want to L2P, they come here to whine and nerf. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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