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EoD seem kinda cool, but Anet should announce they will work on 4th Expansion


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I dont want to come off as somebody with bad intentions. 

Just making that clear first so it don't sound offensive. 

 

But although End of Dragons will have some cool elements,  I dont believe its features will hold the player base down long term. 

I believe its in Anet's favor for the developers to make a clear and precise statement to the public soon after EoD release. Telling the community that they will set aside some developers to work on Expansion 4, while the rest of the team handle the living world and rest of EoD stuff.

 

Just that one little statement will soothe the upcoming rage and panic that I can see starting up again like it was before Anet announced EoD. 

 

You may be asking. "WHY DO YOU BELIEVE THE COMMUNITY WILL RESPOND UNFAVORABLY TOWARDS END OF DRAGONS?"

 

Well let's look at the feature list shall we.

 

*Cantha (lore and location)🎎

*Fishing 🎣 

*Siege Turtle Mount 🐢 

*Skiff 🛶

*Alliances (at some point) 🤝

*Elite Specs ⚔

 

Now let's break this down, piece by piece. 

 

*Fishing 🎣:

Fishing is something many have requested for the game. Many MMOs have it. WoW even has it. But its such a small part of the MMO Sphere, even in games that have it, such as WoW and New World, etc. Many of us want Fishing in Guildwars2,  but not as an Expansion selling feature. What percentage of the player base do you predict will do the fishing on a regular basis? 

 

*Skiffs 🚣‍♀️:

Skiffs seem like a cool concept on its own right. The only problem, Skimmer Mount exist. Skimmer can even go under water now. Skimmer seems more mobile as well than the Skiffs.  But this circles back to my first point. Fishing 🎣.  Seem that Skiffs really only serve the new Fishing mechanic. Not like there will be some flushed out Naval Combat system or anything.  The skiffs only have collision 💥 detection with other party member's skiffs. So I dont see much cross multiplayer interactions unless its a pre planned party and with the sole role of going group Fishing 🎣.  Which as I predict based on general MMO history, most players will try it at first but it will quickly fade fast for the vast majority of the player base. 

 

*Siege Turtle Mount 🐢:

Well this had me a bit excited actually.  A new mobile Siege weapon. Oh was I disappointed 😞.  This can't even be used in WvW, which seem like the perfect place for it. There wasnt much thought put into that as a concept as of now, but that can change. But here is the thing. We kinda overloaded with PvE Mounts at this point. Do we really need another Mount like this as an expansion selling feature? I get it, dual Mounts with a combat aspect. Sounds cool.  The problem,  is this is practically useless unless you playing with somebody that can hop into the passenger seat to make use of the combat aspect of the mount. That person also has to be in your party to hop on. For people that play mostly solo, this is useless. Now for the motility part of it. I dont see why a person who is playing solo, would use this Mount over any of the others we already have.

 

*Alliances 🤝:

This will come at some point. But I am one of the many people the look down upon this feature in general, as a community breaking game design decision. Seem like a new server link system on steroids. It gravitate more towards the GvG rather than the WvW. I believe this will have consequences in the long run. But we will see. Dont get me wrong. Alliances at least show that Anet is paying some attention to WvW again. My issue is that although that may be true, Alliance system isn't New WvW gameplay content.  We will still be doing the same exact things we been doing, and most likely we will have to wait year(S) for new WvW gameplay to get added. Likely have to wait until Expansion 4 to see new WvW Maps and new sieges and new battle objectives and stuff like that.  Nothing new, for the next few years is such a bummer.  Really the only thing of value I can see for post EoD WvW is my next talking point.

 

*Elite Specs ⚔:

Elite Specs bring something new to the Buildhology. I am not going to lie though,  some of the new Elite Specs I am a bit bummed out about, but new build potential is still a value. I play Revenant and been wanting a Greatsword for a bit. Could have been done a little better,  but I won't go there.... ✌😢

But the Hammer 🔨 Elementalist and Hammer 🔨 Ranger, both were kinda exciting  concepts, but the execution was a letdown. Also the Guardian elite spec, although on paper seem pretty exciting,  just seem very poorly put together when I last played it. But things can change.  But like I said. The new build potential is there. Some of the other elite specs I didnt name, I also feel a certain way about, but like all of them, I still have build ideas I look forward to using.

 

*Cantha 🎎:

Let's save the best for last.  Well sort of.

Cantha been one of the most requested areas by the community. I believe that's mostly because of it being one of the last major locations from the first game to be visited in Guildwars2,  but also because of all the developer silence over the Cantha and China controversial relationship. But let's not go further into that, since now it's here! So whats the problem? Well the problem,  is this pretty much is only a nostalgic value to former Guild Wars Faction players and those that were into the lore of Guild Wars 1 Factions.

Factions was my first Guild Wars game, which I am sure Anet can see on my account somewhere. Although that may be the case, I mostly did the PvP, which is what Guild Wars was marketed as back then,  even though it had some under-rated PvE gameplay and story back then as well.  But let's be real here. What percentage of the Guild Wars 2 player base ever played Guild Wars Factions, for them to have a nostalgic connection to it? Like I said, Factions was my first Guild Wars game and even I am not all that excited about it. I believe Arena Net has once shared some of its data on the number of Guild Wars 2 accounts compared to the Guild Wars 1 players that played Guild Wars 1 Factions. Your own numbers will show that more people play GW2 then they did GW1. Thats a good thing, but having this as a major selling point for your new Guildwars2 expansion will only get you so far.

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I dont want to come off as somebody with bad intentions.  Just making that clear first so it don't sound offensive.    But although End of Dragons will have some cool elements,  I dont

Are you high on something? Do you know what marketing is and how it works? Sales from EoD will fuel next development step, not some promise of far away expac - it needs money, not useless hype.

I don't think Anet need to release a statement for the community here. I think they need to release one for you. You keep mentioning the community, other players etc...but this is in fact just about y

You left out some stuff.  New Guild Hall, Arborstone, and the last Mastery Track, Dragonjade.  There may, even, be more.

I'm not sure ArenaNet chose Cantha just for nostalgia; I mean, the playerbase asked for Cantha for many, many years. Should ArenaNet have ignored that?  I know some were disappointed it was Elona instead of Cantha, last time.

I don't know how great or not-so-great Fishing will be, but the same disparagement was found before Mounts released.  Probably should try it out first before condemning it.

 

I think I'll wait and see what's on offer, for me, after release.  The most I expect for the future is maybe, maybe, some information about the next Living World.

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I don't think Anet need to release a statement for the community here. I think they need to release one for you. You keep mentioning the community, other players etc...but this is in fact just about you. Doing this standard thing of "if I use plurals, wording to include a larger group, it will make my points, criticism and suggestions more valid." The post is not really different from many posts before it; "I don't like the features so they don't count and the expac doesn't have anything / any main selling points!". 

 

This post just happens to go that one step further with the implied assumption that is Anet announced another expac it would "fix" all the perceived problems with this one and add all the features you want in the game, which is a little naïve honestly. 

 

If you want to voice something, be it criticism, lack of hype, lack of excitement, by all means. But realise that it is I/Me not Us/We.

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Some of the criticism is more personal than you might realize, so I will not respond to all of it - I think Anet has more data than both of us to decide on what was "expansion-selling material" from their last releases (including LW releases that they can use, in the sense of actual playtime, log-in, etc. data, to gauge the engagement of players to each type of content).

 

That being said, I'd like to address that "Many of us want Fishing in Guildwars2,  but not as an Expansion selling feature. What percentage of the player base do you predict will do the fishing on a regular basis? ". The first part still seems a bit personal, but OK, let's tackle that a percentage of the player base would not really fish on a regular basis. The simple answer to that is: Anet has already proven they can play around traditional MMO elements and give it their own spin, AND that they can very well make this element mandatory for navigation/progression AND still have players have fun with it - I'm talking about mounts, of course. You can look for posts from before PoF's release on this very forum and it will be swarming with criticism over the introduction of mounts and how we didn't need silly "going faster" mechanics if we already have swiftness, gliding and the infinite possibilities of masteries from HoT. And yet they managed to pull off not one but several unique mount designs that had us engage with the world in fun ways. I know more than a handful of people who only did their first core map completion after having mounts, and it was a gamechanging feature for them. But Anet didn't even stop there, they went the extra mile and now you can regularly find on the newest maps options from both HoT and PoF masteries, with jumping mushrooms and leylines being available and sometimes even more optimal than your griffon/skyscale mount use.

 

So to get to the point, Anet can even mandate that the entire playerbase is required to use Skiffs and/or go fishing and everyone can still gladly do so. It's very easy to deny access of Skimmers to certain areas - they are indigenous to the Tyrian continent and perhaps can't handle the waters surrounding Cantha, or the water has any other kind of problematic property for them, even proximity to the Dragon Jade or the water Elder Dragon could be mentioned. And we can be sure that Anet can still come up with inventive achievements and masteries to make us even want to go back to sailing on the core maps - so yeah, I'd say not only this but most features can be thought of as expansion-selling points, as long as they put the same kind of effort into it as they have with most other masteries (most, looking at you self-serving and otherwise useless Dragonslayer mastery track).

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I don't necessarily need to hear about a 4th expansion, but I do agree that after IBS I'd feel a lot better if we had a more optimistic roadmap than just 'EoD isn't the end, we just haven't decided/can't reveal what's next yet' - which is the current communication from ArenaNet. What we have now just doesn't inspire confidence after a season of flagging enthusiasm which, while not deadly to the game, also doesn't really inspire excitement for the future of the franchise.

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I don't see any reason why they would make that kind of an announcement at this point.

1. Any hype generated by such an announcement would be immediately lost and forgotten the moment EoD is released. Assuming its like HoT and PoF, EoD is going to likely occupy players for several weeks to months, during which many, if not most, players won't care about the next Living World or Expac at all. I haven't seen anyone expecting an expac directly after EoD (that's just unrealistic) and there will most likely be a tie-up LW season (partially) in Cantha after EoD. That would take months, if not years to launch/complete. Considering that, the next expac would probably be at least 2-3+ years later (assuming there is one), so what benefit would making the announcement right now have?

2. If there isn't anything planned after EoD (highly unlikely since DX11 is being launched at around the same time), why would Anet, or any other gaming company, say so right before the release (especially considering the Steam release will likely launch soon)? That would just be throwing all their hard work on the expac, as well as the associated profits away for no benefits (both to Anet or to the playerbase).

Edited by Poormany.4507
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To OP: I agree that EoD looks a lot less exciting than I would like it to be (in terms of marketing), but marketing has always been quite weak from ANet.

But I think announcing "hey, we're gonna do another xpac" at this time would at best have no value, and at worst actually harm the company (by making them look either desperate or disingenuous).

On 1/3/2022 at 8:53 PM, Poormany.4507 said:

(especially considering the Steam release will likely launch soon)? 

I really, really hope this is not happening any time soon. If it is, I hope ANet has done a lot of soul-searching when it comes to how it sells LW separately from the various packages and bundles. The Steam page (unlike ANet's own website) would have to offer players a way to actually buy S3/S4/IBS. Or maybe Steam accounts would just get them all for free... which is probably feasible but not ideal.

Just... I just hope that when it happens, ANet has actually put in the legwork to make it successful. Because if the Steam release amounts to "the exact same entry experience we have now, but just on Steam" it's going to be awful.

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I neither wanted fishing nor Cantha.  I think Anet missed a mark by not continuing to open up Tyria -- there is so much more room to explore new places instead of hearkening back to places the game (GW1) has already been.   It would seem, to someone's statistics at Anet, that I am in the minority.

I hope to not be strongly disappointed with EoD.  For now, I'm willing to withhold my biases until I've had time to actually run around in it.  I might be surprised, who knows?

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I don’t see the need to announce a 4th expansion right after a brand new expansion, especially knowing that some of the best GW2 content updates don’t come from expansions. I do share some of the same disappointments about the EoD content. Personally not really excited about any of it, sadly, especially after the beta tests, but that’s just me. I hope my opinion changes after the expansion goes live.

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On 1/5/2022 at 8:55 PM, voltaicbore.8012 said:

To OP: I agree that EoD looks a lot less exciting than I would like it to be (in terms of marketing), but marketing has always been quite weak from ANet.

But I think announcing "hey, we're gonna do another xpac" at this time would at best have no value, and at worst actually harm the company (by making them look either desperate or disingenuous).

I really, really hope this is not happening any time soon. If it is, I hope ANet has done a lot of soul-searching when it comes to how it sells LW separately from the various packages and bundles. The Steam page (unlike ANet's own website) would have to offer players a way to actually buy S3/S4/IBS. Or maybe Steam accounts would just get them all for free... which is probably feasible but not ideal.

Just... I just hope that when it happens, ANet has actually put in the legwork to make it successful. Because if the Steam release amounts to "the exact same entry experience we have now, but just on Steam" it's going to be awful.

I don't see how LWS are problem, they are optional content that is not expac per se

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While I agree on Anet's marketing being a bit odd, I do reject the point that Anet "needs" to promise us a new expansion.

 

Anet doesn't have to promise us anything. Fourth expansion comes down to EoD sales. If EoD fails then I doubt they will have an expansion for a long time. They would most likely fix the problems with EoD and future Living World seasons rather than just push out an half assed expansion. 

 

All of your mentioned content actually sounds enticing and exciting for myself personally, so without your proof, please refrain yourself from using plurals and speaking on behalf of other people. 

 

Thank you for your long insight of your "personal problems" with Guild Wars 2 though.

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8 hours ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

I don't see how LWS are problem, they are optional content that is not expac per se

The problem is the impurity of the "optional" nature of LW.

They are indeed optional from a gameplay perspective; other than the skyscale, you're really not missing out on important gameplay advancements.

However, they're not optional if you like the idea of playing through the complete story of the game. ANet, for whatever reason, decided it would be smart to put mainline story elements into something they were going to end up treating (from a sales perspective) as optional content.

Then, even more stupidly, they sell packages advertising the full experience of the game with all unlocks for fairly substantial amounts of money. A new player pays up, thinking they have the "full" game. Then you find out ANet put key story progression into "optional" content it decided not to tell you about when selling you your "full" game experience for $100.

It's just the dumbest possible combination of weak product identity and inept marketing. I have great respect for ANet's ability to make a fun game, but very little regard for their ability to run GW2 on the business side of things.

Edited by voltaicbore.8012
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3 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Are you referring to Ultimate Bundle for $100?  Does that not include the means to purchase all previous Living World Seasons/Episodes?  Otherwise, it is $50 for 'everything'. 

Yes, the Ultimate Collection is the big offender here. It does include 4K gems, but even with the LW discounted bundle prices, buying S2/S3/S4/IBS comes out to 4160 gems. Of course, the last 160 gems isn't hard at all for an informed veteran player to convert from gold, but that's not the position a brand new player is going to be in. 

Even if that 4K gems included in the Ultimate Collection is meant specifically to subsidize LW unlocks, there's no information explicitly directing players toward that option. It would be very easy for a new player to either drop a couple thousand of that 4K on any number of utility or cosmetic items well before finding out about what exactly LW is and how it fits into their GW2 experience.

So no - the Ultimate Bundle does not actually include the means to purchase all LW content, nor does the sales process ever properly highlight the mixed nature (optional for gameplay, not really optional for full story) of LW.

Ultimately I think we have to remember that in any conversation about GW2 performing better with EoD, we need to see this from a new player perspective. I was already fairly familiar with the gem store and the game at large when I first encountered the need for buying S2, which I managed to get for the bundle price. S3 didn't even exist at that point. Now, new players are coming in, some of them dropping $100 USD for what's being marketed to them as (an essentially, not literally) complete game unlock only to find that more purchases are necessary for a truly complete experience.

I'm not saying DLC is a bad idea in and of itself - other games do it, and arguably do it better. LW is just weird, as it contains mainline story progression. You're not locked from forward progress without LW, so that much is like the standard DLC experience. But you'll have awfully large gaps in your story as a result of doing it that way.

Edited by voltaicbore.8012
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After the IBS/original ex3 cancellation issue i'd say they do need to give us a bit longer info about the future (so, not only something more about LS6, but also a much more general info about what is supposed to come after). The time for this would be somewhere in-between releases of EoD and first chapter of LS6 (preferably within few weeks to a month after EoD launches). They do not need to tell us all of this before EoD however. marketing for a new expansion should not be diluted by immediately talking about post-expansion stuff - like i said, the time for that should come only after players had some time with EoD already.

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It's possible they don't know exactly how things are going to unfold, and that EoD response will be a big factor in deciding it.

They have more story in the works, but how it develops and is delivered may still be up in the air.

Edited by Gibson.4036
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I expect at some point they will do an Eye of the North type expansion.

 

The main draw will be heroes like in EotN.  And heroes are updated by way of the mastery system.  

 

 

Might see a resurgence in dungeons if that were to happen.

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1 hour ago, piitb.7635 said:

I expect at some point they will do an Eye of the North type expansion.

 

The main draw will be heroes like in EotN.  And heroes are updated by way of the mastery system.  

 

 

Might see a resurgence in dungeons if that were to happen.

The moment they add heroes is the moment they give up on gw2

 

5 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

the time for that should come only after players had some time with EoD already.

^that's about it, no need to push for "next expansion news" when the closest one isn't even out yet

Edited by Sobx.1758
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