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Just gonna throw this out there


AliamRationem.5172

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It seems like you guys only want us playing 3 classes.  So why not just get rid of the others, huh?  Or maybe a balance pass some time sooner rather than later?  Sorry, I know you got your hands full with EoD and all, but some of us would like to play something other than guardian, necromancer, or revenant in some game mode at some point.  Thanks.

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1 hour ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

It seems like you guys only want us playing 3 classes.  So why not just get rid of the others, huh?  Or maybe a balance pass some time sooner rather than later?  Sorry, I know you got your hands full with EoD and all, but some of us would like to play something other than guardian, necromancer, or revenant in some game mode at some point.  Thanks.

I was just talking with some guildies about this last night. I love my rev, have for a long time, but am feeling a bit guilty when comparing performance to some other professions. 

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It gets rebalanced, something else is dominant, those who play them will be happy, the others unhappy.  It's a cycle, and those who love a particular profession will continue to play it and tweak their builds, or maybe try something new.  It's nothing new in an MMO nor is it exclusive to GW2.  Is it frustrating, yes.  Does it mean the devs don't care about your profession, no.

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3 minutes ago, Farohna.6247 said:

It gets rebalanced, something else is dominant, those who play them will be happy, the others unhappy.  It's a cycle, and those who love a particular profession will continue to play it and tweak their builds, or maybe try something new.  It's nothing new in an MMO nor is it exclusive to GW2.  Is it frustrating, yes.  Does it mean the devs don't care about your profession, no.

You're right.  It is a cycle.  One that I am reminding them has been moving in slow-to-no-motion for some time now.

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7 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

You're right.  It is a cycle.  One that I am reminding them has been moving in slow-to-no-motion for some time now.

It is, and it's a fair thing to be discouraged or frustrated with.  We all want to be shown some love and have fun with our favorites. ❤️

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8 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

You're right.  It is a cycle.  One that I am reminding them has been moving in slow-to-no-motion for some time now.

I think this is the biggest thing to me. A class being extremely strong is tolerable when classes move position in the meta frequently. Currently, our metas last 2+ years, so when you enjoy a class that’s one the bottom, it’s very frustrating and discouraging. 

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I feel that. I main necro exclusive from day one. Had a really long rough time with it to some extend in pve it still has the noob or beeing bad stigma, just necro things you know. I'm still hoping ANet will buff other classes instead of swinging the nerf bat. I was always a fan of bringing other classes up to the rest of the competition rather than hammering down the good performing ones. Maybe EoD will shake up the actual meta. On the other other hand these days i'm just an ow map event pleb and silver pvp guy so the meta is not that punishing for me anymore. Also necro got some viability so it could be worse from my point of view.

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6 minutes ago, Spie.5024 said:

What’s your expectation though? Bring these classes down or up the level of the others?

Also, what classes are the best balanced / well designed from a PvE perspective in your opinion then?

Good question.

The biggest issue is the execution of support roles and the top of that list is that boons are too strong.  Specifically quickness, alacrity, aegis, and stability.

The difference between groups that have these boons and groups that don't is dramatic.  Further, a few classes bring these boons way better than others with most incapable of bringing them at all.   Also, for some reason those classes are like a magic multi-tool that can can adapt to provide other critical and/or unique functions, often without giving up whatever else they were providing to the group already.  

The result is that life is just better when you have firebrand, renegade, and scourge on your team.  In my opinion, that life is a little too good.  I think groups facerolling DPS rotations because you don't need to dodge, bypassing phases, ignoring mechanics, etc. is all problematic and these boons and the classes providing them are like a magnifying glass to sunlight.

So, what to do about it?  That's a complex answer and I don't have all of it.  I would like support roles to maintain their identity, but I would prefer it if more classes were competitive for those roles.  So perhaps a bit of both in terms of bringing other classes up while bringing the chosen classes in line?  I also feel that part of that solution should include forcing these classes to make harder choices in terms of what they can bring to a group all at one time.  That is more consistent with the experience of other classes.

I am hesitant to suggest nerfing boons outright.  That's painting with a pretty broad brush and the impact is not equal even within a single game mode.  My feeling is that it's probably necessary, but given ANet's penchant for breaking things and leaving them in that state for years I think we're really rolling the dice asking for that kind of change.

 

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1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

People can't seem to admit that viable builds and classes just aren't enough for them. They want they preferences to be meta. We know that's a fantasy. 

And yet balance is not a fantasy.  It's a continuous process and pressing them to pick up the pace while providing a specific target to address is not unreasonable.

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On 1/7/2022 at 3:00 PM, AliamRationem.5172 said:

It seems like you guys only want us playing 3 classes.  So why not just get rid of the others, huh?  Or maybe a balance pass some time sooner rather than later?  Sorry, I know you got your hands full with EoD and all, but some of us would like to play something other than guardian, necromancer, or revenant in some game mode at some point.  Thanks.

What are you talking about though?
You have: Guardian, Dragonhunter, Firebrand, Necromancer, Reaper, Scourge, Revenant, Herald and Renegade, that's 9 classes to choose from.

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4 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

What are you talking about though?
You have: Guardian, Dragonhunter, Firebrand, Necromancer, Reaper, Scourge, Revenant, Herald and Renegade, that's 9 classes to choose from.

True.  And their impact is not the same across all game modes.  Obviously, I was making a provocative statement to start the thread.  But I think you can throw a rock and hit a necromancer, guardian, or revenant build in some flavor that is dominant if not outright problematic in every game mode.  Do you have a favorite flavor?

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7 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

True.  And their impact is not the same across all game modes.  Obviously, I was making a provocative statement to start the thread.  But I think you can throw a rock and hit a necromancer, guardian, or revenant build in some flavor that is dominant if not outright problematic in every game mode.  Do you have a favorite flavor?

Please dont hit necromancer, guardian or revenant. Please only hit Scourge, Firebrand and Renegade.

Herald, Dragonhunter and Reaper arent problematic.

So many always say that necromancer, guardian and revenant are doing too much.
Its not the case bc its only Scourge, Firebrand and Renegade.

Here an example:
Last time anet noticed renegade was performing too well, they nerfed battle scars of core.

People cry why core always gets nerfed.
Then they also say "Necro, guardian, revenant op".

Edited by SeTect.5918
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38 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

And yet balance is not a fantasy.  It's a continuous process and pressing them to pick up the pace while providing a specific target to address is not unreasonable.

Well, you know me ... I'm going to argue we have balance because classes are all viable for successful content completion ... unless you play with people that exclude you. Meta as a balance target for all specs seems unlikely and probably not worth the effort. 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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22 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, you know me ... I'm going to argue we have balance because classes are all viable for successful content completion ... unless you play with people that exclude you. Meta as a balance target for all specs seems unlikely and probably not worth the effort

Problem is not that every specc is completely balanced, it's argued in a perfectly balanced game things would become bland as you would have no reason to ever try other things as nothing would motivate such a thing. 

The issue is balance patch's don't happen fast enough. Which makes meta stale, things need to change faster sadly. 

We know every specc will never be perfectly balanced when your pushing meta something will forever win. 

But guardians dominating a meta for 4 years is ludicrous

Patchs and balance changes highlights speccs and proffessions to people which draws attention and makes people want to try it which increases engagement with the game itself. 

That's why they're vital even if every balance patch doesn't "change the meta". 

Like staff mirage. It didn't change the meta even in its weeks of being crazy, but it did get a whole bunch of people messing around with mesmer. 

Scourges buffs, again meta wise it didn't change much however In pugs people started absolutely spamming it because it became rly strong in pugs and stuff. 

Edited by Daddy.8125
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