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8 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Well we say this. But most players can't play necro properly haha 

Tbh warriors also pretty easy to play. The problem with warrior is it's hard locked into banners and lacks flexibility

Id prolly go as far to say elementalist is the only proffession with any difficulty to it (Condi weaver) 

 

Most ppl cant play necro right so they play scorge witch is an easier version of necro. Its to the point that players cant beat content with out the easy mood of scorge now.

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It seems like you guys only want us playing 3 classes.  So why not just get rid of the others, huh?  Or maybe a balance pass some time sooner rather than later?  Sorry, I know you got your hands full

I'll run the translation for those who can't get past taking every word literally. "These classes are not balanced.  Please address."

You're right.  It is a cycle.  One that I am reminding them has been moving in slow-to-no-motion for some time now.

4 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

Most ppl cant play necro right so they play scorge witch is an easier version of necro. Its to the point that players cant beat content with out the easy mood of scorge now.

Eeehhh.... I wouldnt say Scourge is Easier to play then core Necro in PvE for sure lol.

Ur mixing up Power and difficulty here.. Core necro isnt good in PvE Content, which is why people play scourge, however Scourge isnt easier to play then Core necro lmfao. Core Necro is possibly one of the most simple things on the planet.

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18 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Eeehhh.... I wouldnt say Scourge is Easier to play then core Necro in PvE for sure lol.

Ur mixing up Power and difficulty here.. Core necro isnt good in PvE Content, which is why people play scourge, however Scourge isnt easier to play then Core necro lmfao. Core Necro is possibly one of the most simple things on the planet.

I would say having your restore for skills only usable during a state when it becomes an hp that is always draining and makes you unable to be healed by others and is on a cd is harder to use and over all as class then say being able to use your effects at any time with out any real limitation. Scorge is far easier as a class then core necro or reaper. Sadly this has not translate to any thing of use for these classes a skill vs reward game play and that IS the problem with the balancing in the game there is no skill vs reward its only about playing the "right" class that anet has just buffed or has simply not nerfed yet.

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4 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

I would say having your restore for skills only usable during a state when it becomes an hp that is always draining and makes you unable to be healed by others and is on a cd is harder to use and over all as class then say being able to use your effects at any time with out any real limitation. Scorge is far easier as a class then core necro or reaper. Sadly this has not translate to any thing of use for these classes a skill vs reward game play and that IS the problem with the balancing in the game there is no skill vs reward its only about playing the "right" class that anet has just buffed or has simply not nerfed yet.

I'm sorry but no. 

difficulty comes from complexity of rotation, mechanically demanding or highly fast paced in combat or highly flexible 

core necromancer rotation is very simple. Skills are all on GCD and it's basically a 4 button rotation til X then a 2 button rotation til Y then back to the same 4 button rotation. 

Reaper is effectively shroud every 10 seconds for 10 seconds and to make it even better you don't press litterally any buttons for every other 10 seconds as you simply use shroud to only auto attack. 

Both speccs are highly rigid in playstyle and options and has nothing to realistically set them apart at all. 

Scourge has higher APM.

It requires timing between shade abilities to maximise doomfires damage. 

It requires good knowledge of where to use shades during more mobile parts of the fight. 

It juggles both a defensive and offensive role. 

You use shade abilities at the same time as your rotation meaning it's a physical DPS loss to click your skills compared to the prior 2 which are actually not. 

Scourge by default to maximise requires the minimum of usuage of hotkeys. Neither reaper or core do. Which means it has a higher mechanical demand 

Saying  "oh but my reaper makes my healers life hell" isn't your role being harder. It's demanding a more focused healer to deal with you. 

You not being healable during shroud isn't a impact on your difficulty. You can't do anything about that a uncontrollable factor isn't a "skill based" decision. You not being healable during shroud requires your healer to be more skilled to play around you. Or requires a higher level of communication with your raids to play around together. 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

I'm sorry but no. 

difficulty comes from complexity of rotation, mechanically demanding or highly fast paced in combat or highly flexible 

core necromancer rotation is very simple. Skills are all on GCD and it's basically a 4 button rotation til X then a 2 button rotation til Y then back to the same 4 button rotation. 

Reaper is effectively shroud every 10 seconds for 10 seconds and to make it even better you don't press litterally any buttons for every other 10 seconds as you simply use shroud to only auto attack. 

Both speccs are highly rigid in playstyle and options and has nothing to realistically set them apart at all. 

Scourge has higher APM.

It requires timing between shade abilities to maximise doomfires damage. 

It requires good knowledge of where to use shades during more mobile parts of the fight. 

It juggles both a defensive and offensive role. 

You use shade abilities at the same time as your rotation meaning it's a physical DPS loss to click your skills compared to the prior 2 which are actually not. 

Scourge by default to maximise requires the minimum of usuage of hotkeys. Neither reaper or core do. Which means it has a higher mechanical demand 

Saying  "oh but my reaper makes my healers life hell" isn't your role being harder. It's demanding a more focused healer to deal with you. 

You not being healable during shroud isn't a impact on your difficulty. You can't do anything about that a uncontrollable factor isn't a "skill based" decision. You not being healable during shroud requires your healer to be more skilled to play around you. Or requires a higher level of communication with your raids to play around together. 

 

 

 

Just because something is more complex in more skill use dose not make it harder this is a question of the time you have to use the skills and the risk you must be your self into to use these skills at there best effect. Core necro and reaper puts there restores at risk when they push dmg. Scorge dose not.

To bring this back to the point the way anet is balancing the game is base off of 3 maybe only 2 class always being in the meta. We seen condis from thoughts classes get massive buff for pve content we seen boons that are a must give to them. At what point will anet ask them self did they go too far.

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On 1/9/2022 at 10:49 PM, Daddy.8125 said:

The issue is there's actual direct proof this isn't the case.

Let's look, statistically. Necromancer, revenant and guardian are the most played proffessions in the game. 

 

Hold on.

That's not proof this isn't the case because what is 'most' and 'least' played professions is not a criteria Anet stated in the patch notes as a reason they make class changes. Anet has indicated that if a class is It's not played enough or too much, it will get changes. Where it ranks and whether it sits in an acceptable range of played frequency are not the same thing. 

What is most and least played is not necessarily indicative of problems with balance; something is ALWAYS most and least played and players make choices for classes they play on numerous reasons, not just what is most balanced. What is most and least played would actually be a BAD criteria to base balance on. 

Again, they have told us in the patch notes why they are making changes to classes. It's not what is most and least played. There isn't any reason to believe they aren't telling us the truth unless you have an issue with how they do class balance. 

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PvE wise, every class has at least 1, if not 2 or 3 highly competitive builds. I dunno what the OP is smoking. 
 

PvP wise… ya… but that has been the case since the glorious PvP update 2 years ago. Absent massive PvP update on the same level, PvP will remain unbalanced and not remotely fun. 

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1 hour ago, otto.5684 said:

PvE wise, every class has at least 1, if not 2 or 3 highly competitive builds. I dunno what the OP is smoking. 
 

PvP wise… ya… but that has been the case since the glorious PvP update 2 years ago. Absent massive PvP update on the same level, PvP will remain unbalanced and not remotely fun. 

Sure, bud.  Just open fractal LFG any old time and we'll be back here trying to argue that everyone is crazy for running firebrand/renegade/scourge with about 80% combined representation.  They're just doing it wrong.  It's not a sign that there's a balance issue here.  No sir.

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7 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's not proof this isn't the case because what is 'most' and 'least' played professions is not a criteria Anet stated in the patch notes as a reason they make class changes

Heres a Secret

Companies Lie. LOTS in patch notes and changes. they're trying to Depict their Actions in a Positive Light to reduce Fires, if they openly stated "We Dont want players using the harder to play proffessions to increase accessibility" They'd burn their own game into the floor with such a Statement. So yes ofcourse they state something like this in a Patch notes.

7 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Anet has indicated that if a class is It's not played enough or too much,

Necromancer and Guardian No matter how far you go back Even when necromancer was Considered bad in PvE. these proffesisons have always been statistically VERY high in population.

7 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

What is most and least played is not necessarily indicative of problems with balance; something is ALWAYS most and least played and players make choices for classes they play on numerous reasons, not just what is most balanced. What is most and least played would actually be a BAD criteria to base balance on. 

Stop reading what a Dev state sin black and White apply some level of intelligence to the situation.

its VERY Obvious Guardian and Necromancer have NEVER been Low playrate, Elementalist and Thief have throughout time been forever the Least played Proffessions Outside of a Spit time in HOT Where the Meta grew into a Tempest only meta. however since the Launch of PoF These proffesions Popularity has Plummeted into the floor in PvE Content.

7 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Again, they have told us in the patch notes why they are making changes to classes. It's not what is most and least played. There isn't any reason to believe they aren't telling us the truth unless you have an issue with how they do class balance. 

except thios game has Multiple sites Players and Discords Dedicated to using Third party Trackers, Log sites and More to track the playerbases Most and Least played Proffessions and the Reality of the situation is the COMPLETE opposite of what Anet attempt to proclaim

Necromancer was Buffed - Has never had a Low playrate not even in core when it was Terrible in PvE were players Not playing necromancer. its been a Super popular proffession from the start.

Condi Firebrand got massively buffed in fractals with exposed changes, Another Overpopulated proffession that has forever been a high playrate proffession.

Elementalist got Nerfed - has Had a Playrate beneath 1% in Competitive / raid / fractal content for 2 years +

We know they arent telling us the truth there are Litteral Statistical Numbers that PROVE Firebrand, Renegade and Scourge are NOT The lowest playrate and have Not been the lowest playrate by a Absolute Mile throughout PoF.

if they were attempting to Nerf the Overpopulated Proffessions, and buff Underpopulated Proffessions

we'd see Elementalist Engineer Warrior and Thief massively Buffed.

Guardian Revenant and Necromancer Massively nerfed.

And  Mesmer and rangers Get a few buffs.

As thats the exact List Of Popularity currently.

Revenant Necromancer and guardian swallow over 60% of the population right now.

Engineer is like 2% of the population, Elementalist is 1% Warriors Sit at like 5% and Thiefs like also 1%..

Rangers and Mesmers are Middle ground but still WAAAY below Guardian Revenant and Necromancer,

If we wanna Raw Look at PvE Content Guardian, Revenant and necromancer Belittle everything Popularity wise and has Done for a very lnog time (prolly necromancer not so much as Scourge was Percieved to be bad but its Solo capability has always carried its popularity among solo players)

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4 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Sure, bud.  Just open fractal LFG any old time and we'll be back here trying to argue that everyone is crazy for running firebrand/renegade/scourge with about 80% combined representation.  They're just doing it wrong.  It's not a sign that there's a balance issue here.  No sir.

Ironically actually it isnt a Balance issue as Such. this is a Player perception issue. Announcing something as a Top level player ironically causes Movements like this, with like Half the videos surrounding the game being Teapot Screeching how Utility proffessions Carry raids and Fractal groups and How Strong Scourge is how strong Firebrand is and More are we suprised the words catching on and People are pouring into these proffessions?

Scourge x 2 firebrand x2 and Renegade Is Not the Strongest fractal build. the Fastest Fractal clear is actually 3x Soubeast 1x Renegade 1x Dragonhunter thats the Actual Meta from a DPS Point of view. the issue is the Scourge x2 Firebrandx2 and Renegade is a extremely safe comp to play with a Lower Mechanical Skill requirement which appeals far more to Pugs.

you could nerf that Meta, but unless ur gonna Tear something Real out of the comp it wont change anything.

People play. What earns Rewards the Easiest, and the Condi comp is Just safer, however its Statistically not actually stronger which Logs and kill times prove Quite quickly.

ontop of this, by nature the most Popular proffessions are gonna be the most popular proffessions in content, its a No brainer... these proffessions swallow over 70% of the playerbase Alone, there arent enough of the other 6 proffessions to realistically sway that number.

and we cant say "jkust cause their faceroll to play" as Warrior and Ranger are also both proffessions with a Low skill floor yet pale in comparison even tho technically Ranger is actually Stronger in Fractals then Necromancer, People generally arent playing it anymore.

If u wanna Destroy that Comp ur gonna have to Dismantle parts of their kit.

- Make Taking barrier a Stronger nerf to Scourges DPS. maybe Strip out the Damage from Shades at Core and rework one of the traits on the same row as Barrier which puts the Damage onto the Shades. so u either choose Offensive or Defensive Shades.

- Drop Renegade to 5 man Alacrity + BNalance it out to end the RR Renegade Period. force Renegade to comitt to a boon specc for 100% uptime on it.

- Rip Quickness out of FIrebrand. it Outclasses every Qucikness Option because it stacks Aegis and Stab ontop of it. Firebrand has enough 5man Power to Be a Wanted proffession without it and if we are to beleive they intend to Drop all boons to 5man.. this is a HUGE buff to Firebrand in Raid enviroments... HFB / Condi Firebrand with their utility and Stab/Aegis Uptime will be enough to create demand, so Removign Quickness is the No Brainer.

- revert the Exposed Mechanic Changes that came in the last major Patch. revert the buffs it caused to burst Condi.

these 4 Changes would likely be enough to Force a Power Meta back in, which would effectively end all 4 of these Speccs, although i'd Argue in this meta Anet would likely need to make Some changes to Reaper or do it After Harbinger launchs because it'd be bad for necro if we go into a Power Meta while necromancer has no strong Power Options.

heres the fact

If someone asks

New Player looking to Solo content. the vast majority reply with "Play Necromancer"

New Player asks for a Versatile proffesion for PvE End game people reply with "Play Guardian"

New Player Asks for a Good PvP Proffession people reply with "Renegade, Holosmith or Necromancer".

new Player asks What to play if they wanna do everything people reply with "Guardian".

If they go into Streams People are calling These proffessions Overpowered, if they go on youtube theres TONS of videos Surrounding these 3 proffessions and if u look through the lists these 3 are just more popular among streamers.

Now, engineer by default in all games is a Underpopulated Proffession, its just not one that takes the heart of many essentially although holosmith did wonders for the popularity of the specc, it was never gonna be enough.

We boil it down to The Reply to every Question on what proffession to play as "Revenant Guardian or Necromancer". Which means We're driving the playerbase into the 3 Proffessions and then complaining everyones playing those proffessions The Balance of the game isnt driving these 3 proffessions (Barring Renegade. that just is meta in every Raid/Group due to 10 man Alacrity). Scourge isnt Meta in any content. but its a Safe pick for players in PuG enviroments, Firebrand is 5man meta but falls off in Raids so they do fall short someone realistically. but the exposed mechanic made stacking this proffession a Safe Option too.

So yeah, even as someone who plays Necro, you need to remove the Safety of this build if u want to undo the problem. Exposed needs Reverting.. Necro needs a proper DPS Loss for taking Barrier. Firebrand needs to lose Quickness and Revenant needs Nerfs to its Alacrity to stop the RR Renegade build.

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4 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Heres a Secret

Companies Lie.

That's just a cop out and it's a bad premise for an argument as well.

What I said wasn't wrong; Anet tells us why they make class changes and you didn't prove those reasons are lies. You did show you mistake what is most and least played as balance targets that Anet never stated they use (especially since those are obviously bad targets).  

What I can absolutely sure of ... Anet will change the game how they see fit, whether people think their reasons are valid or not. 

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27 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's just a cop out and it's a bad premise for an argument as well.

What I said wasn't wrong; Anet tells us why they make class changes and you didn't prove those reasons are lies. You did show you mistake what is most and least played as balance targets that Anet never stated they use (especially since those are obviously bad targets).  

What I can absolutely sure of ... Anet will change the game how they see fit, whether people think their reasons are valid or not

So you actually beleive the reason necromancer firebrand and revenant were buffed based on low popularity. 

And thief and elementalist recieved nerfs due to over populations? 

Because if your answer is No. Then they didn't do that balance patch based on popularity. 

I don't have any mistakes on what is and isn't popular. It's very easy to see what is and isn't played. 

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2 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

So you actually beleive the reason necromancer firebrand and revenant were nerfed based on low popularity. 

And thief and elementalist recieved nerfs due to over populations? 

Because if your answer is No. Then they didn't do that balance patch based on popularity. 

I believe Anet has reasons and they tell us what some of those reasons are in the patch notes.  It's completely WEIRD to accuse them of lying considering giving us a reason for the class changes is completely voluntary. Did Anet actually SAY those classes were nerfed because of popularity? I don't think they did, but if you have the reference I would LOVE to see it. 

Again, I didn't say a reason Anet stated for class change was 'popularity' and I don't actually recall Anet saying it's a reason, so I don't get why you are dwelling on that reason to make your point that Anet is lying ... because it doesn't.  I can't see why 'popularity' would be a reason in the first place because someone is always first and someone is always last. That can't be 'balanced out'. 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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2 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

So you actually beleive the reason necromancer firebrand and revenant were buffed based on low popularity. 

And thief and elementalist recieved nerfs due to over populations? 

Because if your answer is No. Then they didn't do that balance patch based on popularity. 

I don't have any mistakes on what is and isn't popular. It's very easy to see what is and isn't played. 

I get the feeling a lot of ppl "have theirs" for the classes they like to play and often feel threaten when other classes start to ask for the same effects. So they make up very odd ball excuses for the "balancing and buffing" to be "right" in there view.

At best anet is blindly balancing and know they are doing it badly as they not balanced the game in a real way in 2 + years very close to 3 years now. At worst they think they are doing a good job so they think its ok not to balance there game with in that time span and think the game is not super stale.

Even the "chosen" classes for the last 2 + years are very boring and un-fun to play at this point. The EoD excuse is a false one.

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8 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

believe Anet has reasons and they tell us what some of those reasons are in the patch notes.  It's completely WEIRD to accuse them of lying considering giving us a reason for the class changes is completely voluntary. Did Anet actually SAY those classes were nerfed because of popularity? I don't think they did, but if you have the reference I would LOVE to see it. 

Again, I didn't say a reason Anet stated for class change was 'popularity' and I don't actually recall Anet saying it's a reason, so I don't get why you are dwelling on that reason to make your point that Anet is lying ... because it doesn't.  I can't see why 'popularity' would be a reason in the first place because someone is always first and someone is always last. That can't be 'balanced out

 

20 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Anet has indicated that if a class is It's not played enough or too much, it will get changes

This part here. 

I'm stating if Anet were following this concept Guardians necromancer and revenant would be nerfed and engineer elementalist and thief would be buffed. 

And all companies lie or bend the truth 😂. Their job is to sell you a product, not give you the harsh truth of the fact their effectively intending to appease the majority realistically. 

I'm stating it's in the companies best interest to make gw2 as accessible as possible to naturally encourage a larger quantity of players to participate in end game content.

And coincedently shortly after several videos were posted about the problems of PvE by large streamers/anet partners  stating lack of accessibility and the game being mechanically too challenging for the most of the playerbase. 

We see some select buffs to a very specific comp which is far easier to play mechanically and yield high success rates using very easy to play builds. 

Anet do what they think will sell their products best. These steamers and YouTubers are anets most accessible feedback. I think both the lastest patch notes were to improve the 2x scourge 2x firebrand 1x renegade to make high level fractals more accessible. 

You are correct in terms of its impossible to get everything balanced. And Anet will make changes regardless of player opinon however. 

At the end of the day the companies job is to make a profit. And as much profit as possible  which means whenever they do something they have the majority in mind not minorities. They will change things they think will appease the majority to keep them invested with the product. 

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5 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

I get the feeling a lot of ppl "have theirs" for the classes they like to play and often feel threaten when other classes start to ask for the same effects. So they make up very odd ball excuses for the "balancing and buffing" to be "right" in there view.

At best anet is blindly balancing and know they are doing it badly as they not balanced the game in a real way in 2 + years very close to 3 years now. At worst they think they are doing a good job so they think its ok not to balance there game with in that time span and think the game is not super stale.

Even the "chosen" classes for the last 2 + years are very boring and un-fun to play at this point. The EoD excuse is a false one.

I don't think it's a false one tbh Anet did announce significant changes to current elites and cores shortly after EoD launch. 

The problem is, the changes coming are likely been balanced with the new elites in mind, which means if they drop a whole bunch of changes into the game some of them may not make sense or seem worse then they are based on no access to new elites which fill gaps people see. 

Some of the hinted changes such as dropping all boons to 5 man. Will need some serious distraction as people will go nuts. You obliterate the entire meta with nothing new in the game and your gonna quite litterally enrage alot of players. 

EoD excuse makes kinda sense. They're trying to sell a expansion. They make changes too early they could put some players off and see a decline in sales to some extent because of them. 

Also it wasn't that long ago Anet actually employed a new team. They likely haven't caught up and compiled enough to have all the changes ready yet realistically. 

And due to being a month away and we have no release date yet it even seen any gameplay footage I will go one further and say they maybe behind or struggling to keep up. I'd argue there's prolly good reasons they currently are all hands on deck with EoD launch. 

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2 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

This part here. 

I'm stating if Anet were following this concept Guardians necromancer and revenant would be nerfed and engineer elementalist and thief would be buffed. 

Except you don't know the targets Anet have for that criteria to claim they aren't following that concept, so you can't conclude they are lying to you about why they make class changes based on that criteria.  

 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Except you don't know the targets Anet have for that criteria to claim they aren't following that concept, so you can't conclude they are lying to you about why they make class changes based on that criteria.  

but you do know their Targets. you know. they're going to do whatever wins the most votes again this is a Company their Target is to basically keep the game alive, Increase its Popularity and Maximise the profits earnt from development of the game. THese are their goals and these are their intentions. they have no inside Calculations of "What % of people they want on each proffession". What we Play has very little relevance to them. Our Activity, Player engagement and Expenditure on the game however is very relevent.

Lets give a Example here.

Say for example tomorrow, Anet randomly decided to buff Elementalists Condi Weaver DPS Massively, Nerf Down Necromancer. Nerf down revenant and Nerf guardian, then piled a bunch of buffs into thief in PvE Enviroments.

Then Gutted Necromancer in PvP Content and buffed Fresh air Weaver for some weird reason.

Anet would know Immediately

1) The vast Minority would benefit from these changes while likely angering a Majority of the playerbase.

2) It'd make Raiding and Competitive PvP Less Accessible because u just raised the Skill floor of the content by making players play much mechanically more demanding proffessions in those enviroments Which will cause people to fall off the progression train much quicker as they'll become overwhelmed much faster.

3) you've just steered your game towards a minority and could possibly start pushing out players out as a Consequence.

Necromancer, Guardian, Revenant all have things in common, they're not incredibly Punishing to play, they have effective and simple builds accessible to them and are in the top 3 Most played proffessions in the game realistically, This means Positive changes to these 3 proffessions = Happy Majority = More Spending money = Further investment in the game.

So Game health wise, its more beneficial to Push for Simpler proffessions to be in the Meta, because it lowers the overall skill floor of the content by reducing the mechanical demand required to compete thus encourages More players to participate in harder content as they'll be much more Comfortable when not being Mechanically challanged.

All MMORPGS effectively do this.

WoW Does it, Gw2 Does it, FFXIV Does it,

is it a bad decision, No because its clearly working. however its going to anger a minority of players who feel like their time isnt valued playing more challanging options. that doesnt state it should change. but at the end the end of the day Any change they make is going to cause a Certain % of the population to Uproar. its Anets job to minimize the amount of uproar they get however.

Theres LOADS of examples of this.

Why do u think WoWs Group finder tool became so popular?.

Why do u think Raid Finder became so popular?.

Why do u think Mounts are so popular?

Even though all 3 of these things get HEAVY Critism from Lots of people they've persisted and only dug roots deeper in multitudes of games.

its simple

People Like Easy content that they feel comfortable doing at a Casual level. Meta trains are more popular then Raids. because u can Just join a Commander and follow the blob. you arent mechanically challanged. you arent forced into a Communicating with players, you Dont have to know your rotations or care about boon uptime.

Raid finder its one of the most contraversial topics in WoW. yet has persisted and tbh been a boon to the game. because players Enjoy easy options.

Mounts Trivialise Open world content. and thats why peopel love them. LOADS Despise Mounts existance However it appeases the majority. and its a pill the minority have to swallow for the sake of the popularity of the mechanic effectively.

the Easier something is to do. the more likely the player will do it. the Less annoying / time Requirign it is to get into content the more liklely the player will do it, The Lower the mechanical demand also means more people will do it.

Edited by Daddy.8125
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11 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

but you do know their Targets. you know.

No, we don't know their targets for their balancing criteria. This is not debatable. Therefore, you can't claim Anet isn't being truthful about how they balance classes to you.

Edited by Obtena.7952
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14 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No, we don't know their targets for their balancing criteria. This is not debatable. Therefore, you can't claim Anet isn't being truthful about how they balance classes to you.

it is Debatable though lol, you are trying to making something 20x More complex then it needs to be.

What is a Companies Goals: to Make Money.

how does Company Make Money: Maximise the Quantity of customers purchasing from said company.

How do u maximise the quantity of Customers purchasing from your company?: By Appealing to the majority.

if Necromancer has 47% of the playerbase, and Elementalist has 3% of the playerbase. Buffing Which proffessions Appeals to the majority? Necromancer is the correct answer.

Well done. you've likely put a big big Tick against what you have figured out.

MMORPGS arent Balancable. so u do the second Best thing realistically. you ensure the Balance Favors what sells the best.

Yes. When it comes to reworks I.E things like Scrapper that dont see usuage in 4 years they're going to Rework it. Reworking a Specc breeds popularity in itself Number tweaks Dont realistically have the same effect unless Dramatic and they're likely not going to intentionally continously power creep their game to try and get lower tier speccs to perform better.

so they're going to try make Proffessions as close as possible with a Level of bias towards what will sell the best.

Scourge Sells better then Weaver. it has done since PoF Launch. so why Would u Side with the Weaver knowing ur aiming at the Smaller audience? you wouldnt.

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51 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

it is Debatable though 

No, it's not debatable. We don't know things Anet haven't told us about what their balancing criteria and targets are unless they tell us. Therefore, anyone claiming they are lying to us because you impose their own ideas about how or what Anet use to balance classes outside of what we have been told is just guessing. 

I'm not MAKING this complex at all. I simply believe Anet makes changes to classes for reasons they want to make those changes. That actually as simple as it can be. Whether they tell us what those changes are or whether people think they are lying when they do tell us is actually completely irrelevant.

I'm wrapping this up on my end because it's bordering nonsensical: believe what you like about Anet lying and whatever you think you know about Anet's balancing process ... You haven't invalidated the reasons Anet have given in patch notes for making class changes, especially by imposing your own criteria on those changes to 'prove' they are wrong. 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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5 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

I don't think it's a false one tbh Anet did announce significant changes to current elites and cores shortly after EoD launch. 

The problem is, the changes coming are likely been balanced with the new elites in mind, which means if they drop a whole bunch of changes into the game some of them may not make sense or seem worse then they are based on no access to new elites which fill gaps people see. 

Some of the hinted changes such as dropping all boons to 5 man. Will need some serious distraction as people will go nuts. You obliterate the entire meta with nothing new in the game and your gonna quite litterally enrage alot of players. 

EoD excuse makes kinda sense. They're trying to sell a expansion. They make changes too early they could put some players off and see a decline in sales to some extent because of them. 

Also it wasn't that long ago Anet actually employed a new team. They likely haven't caught up and compiled enough to have all the changes ready yet realistically. 

And due to being a month away and we have no release date yet it even seen any gameplay footage I will go one further and say they maybe behind or struggling to keep up. I'd argue there's prolly good reasons they currently are all hands on deck with EoD launch. 

Its always after or the next time we even where at the moment of getting regular updates after the last big update 2 + years ago. Are we looking at an update every 2 + years as if that a type of regularity?

They added in a 10 target boon right after too... the only thing that happen was a move to necro pet spam to eat up dmg target caps.

EoD feels like desperation. In no way are the new classes balanced unless we are going to see a major dmg buff to the core / other elite classes. Same could be said to boons applied.

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5 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No, it's not debatable. We don't know things Anet haven't told us about what their balancing criteria and targets are unless they tell us. Therefore, anyone claiming they are lying to us because you impose their own ideas about how or what Anet use to balance classes outside of what we have been told is just guessing. 

I'm not MAKING this complex at all. I simply believe Anet makes changes to classes for reasons they want to make those changes. That actually as simple as it can be. Whether they tell us what those changes are or whether people think they are lying when they do tell us is actually completely irrelevant.

I'm wrapping this up on my end because it's bordering nonsensical: believe what you like about Anet lying and whatever you think you know about Anet's balancing process ... You haven't invalidated the reasons Anet have given in patch notes for making class changes, especially by imposing your own criteria on those changes to 'prove' they are wrong. 

they dont need to tell us what their balancing criteria is. its easy to establish a Companies motives. you just seem to enjoy white knighting the company at every time. and thats fine, but you are making it very complex.. its very obvious as a company their job is to Appease the majority if they actively didnt do that their game would be dying.

and i dont need to invalidate Anets Balancing. it'd first have to actually exist. Read a forums. the playerbase are going mental, Competitive modes getting less and less active and Raid / Fractal metas being 80% Replicas in exact comp continously invalidates it by itself.

their balance is obviously not working. if it was they wouldnt have the playerbase enraging on every social platform surrounding the game and in the game. your ideals basically align with the concept of "We can only state what the company directly tell us" as If its common that Companies tell Customers the entire picture ever.

its Just a large strawman to state arguments but I think everyone is aware Anets job is to earn money realistically.

Edited by Daddy.8125
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4 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

Its always after or the next time we even where at the moment of getting regular updates after the last big update 2 + years ago. Are we looking at an update every 2 + years as if that a type of regularity?

They added in a 10 target boon right after too... the only thing that happen was a move to necro pet spam to eat up dmg target caps.

EoD feels like desperation. In no way are the new classes balanced unless we are going to see a major dmg buff to the core / other elite classes. Same could be said to boons applied.

but the new elites are weaker then Current Elite options?.

and well yeah.. i think at this point it pretty much is Years before any serious changes are made so far. EoD isnt desperation, but we have to remmeber Anet have Laid off ALOT of its team, they likely dont have the staff to work on multiple things at the same time anymore realistically.

and given the team was even smaller then it is now since a few months when introducing a new team effectively things would have been moving even slower.

Im afraid when a company almost collasps and the game almost got entirely died it's gonna take a long while to get anything back realistically.

unless we're talking about the outliers (Catalyst in beta 4 etc etc) Which we know will bbe nerfed. the new elites are actually worse compared to the PoF Elites at minimum. at what point would u use willbender over firebrand, Harbinger over Scourge?

The Elites would need bringing down to EoD / Cores Level not the other way around

Edited by Daddy.8125
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