Just gonna throw this out there

[Obtena.7952]

10 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Making unpopular changes = unhappy customers = declining popularity. 

OK time to get back on track again.

Sure ... but Anet can't cater to everyone so they are happy. The game is not made to order for the individual. No narrative you can create will change this. People being unhappy doesn't change the fact that Anet DOES make changes people don't like, doing so with their own decision making process relevant to their own targets for balance. The relevant POV for the Anet's whole process  of balance is not to implement the game how players think it should work so they are 'happy' ... because that can't happen. 

Which brings us back to the beginning ... Players standards for balance are irrelevant. 

 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

8 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure ... but Anet can't cater to everyone so they are happy. No narrative you can create will change this. People being unhappy doesn't change the fact that Anet DOES make changes people don't like (and no, you aren't going to convince anyone that 300 CD's was a change people like), doing so with their own decision making process relevant to their own targets for balance. 

Anet can cater to the majority however. Which goes back to my original point on this subject.. Anet will respond to the majority. That doesn't say they're gonna suddenly balance raids. We know who the majority are. 

Open world players / repeatable content lovers / meta trainers etc etc. Hence why their far better at creating a elite speccs fantasy are RP perspective then actual gameplay. 

From a visual perspective the new elites truely out done themselves in most areas realistically. And they do every time. That's because they know the majority of their playerbase don't do content which puts these negatives on these choices. 

Anet know a cool flashy specc will sell better then a balanced one. But that doesn't mean they should just completely ignore the balance. 

The 300 second CDs became a thing because players screeched those traits were overpowered and shouldn't be allowed. 

Again. People are unhappy 300 second CDs haven't been reworked yet. Not their initial introduction

And the vast majority? I doubt they cared realistically. The majority of people in spvp enviroments or whatever copy paste a build off a hardstuck. PvP community discord or metabattle and run into combat with it realistically. 

It was the top players who realistically cared about the initial changes others are just dissapointed as they didn't get something Anet stated they would 

300 second CDs are perfectly fine as short term fixs to return to. Other games have done similar and gone as far as removing a entire option while it's being worked on. 

Even massive games such as League of Legends did this several times. 

People when 300 second CDs launched expected reworks on those traits done 6 months later. 2 years later we are seeing new elite speccs getting them as caused the playerbase to reliese Anet lied and never intended it to be only a temporary fix hence the angry playerbase. 

 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

6 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Anet can cater to the majority however. Which goes back to my original point on this subject.. Anet will respond to the majority.

Sure Anet can cater the majority ... how you do know they don't?

6 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

That doesn't say they're gonna suddenly balance raids. We know who the majority are. 

We don't know who is the majority actually. We have NO data to suggest who that would be and what they want. 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

8 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure Anet can cater the majority ... how you do know they don't?

You don't know who is the majority actually. You have NO data to suggest who that would be and what they want. 

How do you know they do? Would be the answer back. We can only comment on what we see. 

I know there's alot of people  in spvp who are unhappy, the map chat is litterally never positive regardless of who's online 

But there's a distinguished problem. 

WoW - over 96% of their playerbase do the raid atleast once on a difficulty normal or higher 

FFXIV I beleive like 80% of their playerbase do their raids on a level of difficulty (although savage and higher are a far smaller number) 

There's a reason why gw2 is having a problem getting players to engage with content while none of the other mmorpg do. 

Even anarchy online. A 2 decade old game has kept its raiding alive. And that games the most expensive mmorpg on the planet. Without a single change to it in years lol. 

Now ofcourse a lack of difficulty scaling is a partial problem here. It's likely gw2 do need its own version of Looking for raid and looking for group features, it also needs to condense it's modes in PvE.

Fractals DRMs and dungeons 5 man

Raids and strikes 10 man. 

It's confusing to a new player which content their susposed to chase as the end level never moves therefore all this content appears to be end game content. 

The fact most of the players also only see very angry people in raids bored players in raids. And people interested in the game on this level just memeing the game talking about how trash the balance is will be a offput 

If Anet do something to try reduce the amount of negativity shown maybe more players would be willing to engage with the content. I know this is a problem teapot and his friends have been trying to alter, but he ain't gonna change a narrative alone if the company don't do something. 

I'm afraid over my stay while alot of people are nice and all.. gw2 is prolly one of the most negative community of players I've ever met in any enviroment. There are soo many unhappy players in all platforms surrounding this game at this point. So yeah I think it needs addressing 

 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

17 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

How do you know they do?

I don't ... but I'm not claiming I did so it's absurd you are asking me this to argue with me. My point isn't contingent on Anet appealing to the majority with the balancing approach ... but yours is because you are desperate to prove Anet needs to listen to majority so they are happy. The problem is that 'majority' isn't a unified group of people that think the same way. Anet makes changes like 300s CD ... pretty sure no majority liked that change. 

You're suggesting Anet needs to appeal to the majority to dispute their current approach to balance ... except you don't know if they aren't already doing that. You are suggesting you know who the majority is ... but I know for you a fact you don't have any data that would allow you to know that. 

Again, Anet's balancing approach is what is relevant here. There is no narrative you are going to create that suggests they need to change it, especially based on claims you don't know are true. 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

7 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I don't ... but I'm not claiming I did, you are. My point isn't contingent on Anet appealing to the majority with the balancing approach ... but yours is. Anet makes changes like 300s CD ... pretty sure no majority liked that change. 

You're suggesting Anet needs to appeal to the majority to dispute their current approach to balance ... except you don't know if they aren't already doing that. You are suggesting you know who the majority is ... but I know for you a fact you don't have any data that would allow you to know that. 

Again, Anet's balancing approach is what is relevant here. There is no narrative you are going to create that suggests they need to change it, especially based on information or claims you don't know are true. 

No what I'm saying is. Anet do well at appealing to the majority of the game itself. But not the game modes. 

Although I think PoF defintly missed the mark even in this abit as PoF just feels alot less repeatable then HoT but hopefully EoD will do better at creating a repeatable content experience. 

However Anet are terribly at approaching the majority on a game mode level. 

Spvp and raids. Regardless of how much of the % of the playerbase of those game modes are unhappy Anet don't do anything to address it. 

They should be looking at the popular opinons of all open world, spvp, WvWvW and raids/fractals. 

Sure this is impossible to meet every balance patch however it's possible to meet more often then they currently do. 

I think the lack of split balancing Anet does (between PvE and PvP) even tho have shown they are able to. They could easily nerf something like necro in PvP without any affect on PvE. 

And the lack of tuning actual numbers pretty much shows this to be true. 

Anet reworked scrapper which defintly was a popular move, but only for the majority of the playerbase not the majority of game modes, scrappers not rly touched in content above open world content and WvWvW. Because it was never balanced number wise to realistically be wanted. 

Quickness scrapper was never gonna compete with firebrand and power scrapper was never gonna compete with holosmith and it's barrier application was never gonna overthrow scourge. 

It was reworked into a mediocre option which was however very strong in open world solo content 

 

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

No what I'm saying is. Anet do well at appealing to the majority of the game itself. But not the game modes. 

OK ... but that has nothing to do with the point you are disagreeing with me about ... so back on the tracks we go. 

Anet's approach to balancing is relevant and the only way players' ideas for balance will be also relevant is if they are aligned with Anets. Anet can't cater to individuals in their game design, so there WILL be people unhappy about things. Since you don't know who the majority is or what they want, you can't claim Anet isn't appealing to them. 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

OK ... but that has nothing to do with the point you are disagreeing with me about ... so back on the tracks we go. 

Anet's approach to balancing is relevant and the only want players' ideas for balance will be also relevant is if they are aligned with Anet's. Anet can't cater to individuals in their game design. 

I'd argue the problem is much larger then catering  individual

The lack of player engagement in content. 

The declining popularity of the game. 

And the fact they've completely changed their approach the game with EoD 

All are recognisable facts about the game and would be signs of maybe a larger problem being present then a vocal minority. 

Again. WoW FFXIV ESO anarchy online all have managed to get higher % of player engagement then gw2 has by miles.

Less then 3% of the playerbase touch raiding? Why? 

Less then 10% of the playerbase engage in PvP content? Why?.

Less then 10% of the playerbase engage with fractal content past tier 3 why? 

Over 80% of fractal runs are done with 2x scourge 2x firebrand 1x renegade why? 

Not even off meta speccs in a game like WoW see such low representation. 

Anet are failing to engage the vast majority of the playerbase for a reason. And catering to the majority isn't it. 

For example. 

LFR in WoW. Was massively successful. As it not only boosted the % of the players engaging with raid content. It ironically boosted the popularity of normal mode raiding dramatically. 

Anet have lots of things they could do. 

Make raids story mode. With a queuable system, which have difficulty scaling accessible. 

Make open world maps have private versions of them on harder difficulty modes. 

Do something that makes game modes feel less stale to play. Repeatable content is hinged on changes. One meta for 4 years becomes stale. And I think this was a big reason why they reworked exposed mechanic to change things up. The problem was the went back on it instantly and started nerfing immediately afterwards. 

To try and say "it's a minority" when the games shows evidence of dying. You are aware Anet almost had to shut down right? It fired over 300 employees to just try stay alive. 

There is masses of evidence which show gw2 isn't doing well. If Anet were appealing to a majority. The game wouldn't be dying 

WoWs darkest days aren't even close to how low gw2 is on its brightest hours for a reason. 

 

 

[Obtena.7952]

3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

I'd argue the problem is much larger then catering  individual

The lack of player engagement in content. 

OK ... but that's not the topic so ... here is me putting you on track once again. 

I'm just not into having someone disagree with me on something specific, then go off on tangents to perpetuate and argue about the 'bigger problem' that have nothing to do with the point of disagreement.

What I said isn't wrong. Anet will use their balancing approach and I'm pretty sure threats about 'the bigger problem' doesn't change the relevance of their approach or the irrelevance of the players balancing ideals. 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

7 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OK ... but that's not the topic so ... here is me putting you on track once again. 

I'm just not into having someone disagree with me on something specific, then go off on tangents to perpetuate and argue about the 'bigger problem' that have nothing to do with the point of disagreement.

What I said isn't wrong. Anet will use their balancing approach and I'm pretty sure threats about 'the bigger problem' doesn't change the relevance of their approach or the irrelevance of the players balancing ideals. 

Well by the looks of EoD they have accepted their "balancing approach" was one of the worst in the genre regardless. 

EoD speccs balance wise are nothing alike PoFs and gone as far as employing a separate team to work on current games balancing. 

We will have to wait and see their "new approach" 

No one has a issue with the concept not everything needs to be meta at the same time. No one has a issue with things being overnerfed and over buffed. 

Everyone has a problem with how slow balance patch's happen. Which is basically what this entire threads about. If Anet created a fotm system like every other mmorpg on the market. 

It's not hard to nerf necromancer by 20% and buff elementalist by 20% to swap where things are on the totem pole at a slightly faster rate. 

Game needs replayability. A large part of replayability is the desire to have ALTs. The way you get people to want to make ALTs is by changing the games balancing to favour different proffessions and builds to get people to swap. 

As even the first guy who responded to you stated. 

We want more regular changes. We want more visible balancing. We want to see more patch's happen. It's not hard to add up. This is a basic demand in every mmorpg in current existence. 

The whole idea of FoTM (which is what most refer imbalanced systems by as in the top performers are fotm) is the idea it changes within month - 3 months. 

What Anet have is FoTD. Flavor of the decade 😂😂 saying this majority of the problem in PvE is boons..... You can't make quickness scrapper better then quickness firebrand without giving scrapper stab and aegis realistically.. so maybe PvE wise it's pretty hopeless without severe changes 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Well by the looks of EoD they have accepted their "balancing approach" was one of the worst in the genre regardless. 

Perhaps or perhaps not. I don't think there was enough access or enough of a explanation of their process to conclude that.  I would argue that if the specs make it to the game in relatively the same way as they were in Beta 4, then very little has changed for how Anet regards balance because Beta 4 was a very large range of spec performance, just like the wide range of performance current specs have, based on Anet's balancing efforts from the last 9+ years. 

But let's be clear here, whether what you say there is true or not ... Anet changing how they balance the game would still be relevant in supporting the point I'm making. That's totally within Anet's power to change their balancing approach IF THEY DECIDE TO. Any aspect of how the game works or is managed ... is based on an Anet decision. 

As for the rest of your post ... the typical side topic content I won't touch on except for the frequency of balance patches part ... This is really a meme ... more patches doesn't necessarily mean meta changes or different balancing.  Again ... if you are trying to create the narrative that balance patches are there to make people happy and more patches = more happiness ...  you have a hard sell. That's simply not the reality based on the history of the game.

 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Perhaps or perhaps not. I don't think there was enough access or enough of a explanation of their process to conclude that.  I would argue that if the specs make it to the game in relatively the same way as they were in Beta 4, then very little has changed for how Anet regards balance because Beta 4 was a very large range of spec performance, just like the wide range of performance current specs have, based on Anet's balancing efforts from the last 9+ years. 

But let's be clear here, whether what you say there is true or not ... Anet changing how they balance the game would still be relevant in supporting the point I'm making. That's totally within Anet's power to change their balancing approach IF THEY DECIDE TO. Any aspect of how the game works or is managed ... is based on an Anet decision. 

As for the rest of your post ... the typical side topic content I won't touch on except for the frequency of balance patches part ... This is really a meme ... more patches doesn't necessarily mean meta changes or different balancing.  Again ... if you are trying to create the narrative that balance patches are there to make people happy and more patches = more happiness ...  you have a hard sell. That's simply not the reality based on the history of the game.

 

If you honestly beleive people prefer 4 years of a single meta I think your ludicrous do you understand the term "burnout" ?? Ofcourse people want change. 

It's amazing you think this way when every mmorpg which has regular balance patch's is more success and popular then gw2 lol. 

And no it has changed, if we are running on the concept Anet shouldn't be accused of lying and what they state should be read. 

Anet have stated they are changing their approach. 

 

[Obtena.7952]

18 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

If you honestly beleive people prefer 4 years of a single meta ....

 

Just going to stop you there ... I have said NOTHING what I think people prefer and whatever I believe people prefer is not relevant to my point you are disagreeing with ANYWAYS. You need to stop 'creating' these scenarios where I'm thinking/saying things I NEVER thought or said to create an irrelevant argument. 

Again, I'm just going to bring you back on track to the point if that's what you are going to do ... because you seem VERY easily derailed down these paths that I'm simply NOT going to discuss with you in this thread.

Anet's approach to balancing is relevant and the only way players' ideas for balance will be also relevant is if they are aligned with Anet. Whether they are changing that approach or not in EoD ... has nothing to do with that point. IF they are changing their class balancing approach (which remains to be seen ... I'm certainly NOT taking your word for it), that in fact ... SUPPORTS my point that balancing and everything related to it  is based on what Anet want to do and decide. 

 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[AliamRationem.5172]

Can we get a block feature on this forum?  kitten...

[Dadnir.5038]

9 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

If you honestly beleive people prefer 4 years of a single meta I think your ludicrous do you understand the term "burnout" ?? Ofcourse people want change. 

You're lucky there because Obtena didn't point out how void this argument is. You seem to forget that you don't need to be "meta" to complete the content. If peoples really want to change because "they are bored", they can just change to something that's not "meta", it will just become a tiny bit more challenging.

Yes, PvE content is fixed and eventually end up being boring as you master it (however difficult it feel at release). Shacking the "meta" won't change the content and make it "less boring". The best it can do is encourage you to explore other options that are already available to you but aren't popular, yet.

If you feel bored by PvE content due to a "stale meta", just make off meta groups to clear the content. Most people that wanted to play necromancer in end game had to do this for 7-8 years after all. There are people that have gone as far as clearing raid boss without wearing armors and trinquets for the sake of challenging themselves.

 

[ScottBroChill.3254]

Again Obtena with the steamrolling! sweet baby jesus. You need to go take some business or marketing classes if you think target markets and maxamizing profits are a hard thing to guage at just a glance. Especially since this is a digital game, every little metric is recorded and able to be made into data that can be used to further direct the game. It's easy to see that the bulk of players are more than likely casuals. The bulk of their money though comes from whales who drop loads of cash in the store. Coincidentally this is a very common theme for most games. this game lacks any esport or competitive environment in a practical sense so you know for a fact those are not the targets. It's specifically why complicated classes and builds arent compensated with greaters numbers because they don't want the small number of hardcore gamers to completely crush the casuals in performance and skew the meta into thinking for example: every squad needs an ele for massive dps. This is because ele rotations are hard and complex. In Anets best interest, it's best for them to have more simplistic builds and easier rotations be the top performers so when casuals see what performs best, it's something they can play. This will help with player retention which a steady population will keep the game afloat and will continually motivate the whales to continue to play and drop cash.

So basically casuals are the meat and potatoes that make this game attractive to whales, outside the great combat and great game in general, but if it were dead the whales would be gone. To keep the whales you must satisfy the population which are more or less casuals. 

Now this is just a random theory with zero to no research outside of information I've gathered through the years. Doing actually in depth research and such would give you a much more specific picture like what people like to spend money on, which cosmetics are most popular, etc. that would be more useful in the "ok, now what do we do with this information to gain a profit" like in a specific business plan kinda aspect. But with marketing, ,market research, and and figuring out what the companies direction is, is really easy to hypothesize when the game has been out for almost 10 years.....The change of focus from hardcore to casual has been completely visible and transparent. They ditched the esport scene almost instantly, they haven't added anything to pvp outside of rewards and have only neutered strong playstyles with the removal of amulets, 300s traits, and constantly gimping builds. They barely support raids, they are just now getting wvw changes in after many years of waiting. They barely focus on any significant balance changes. HoT had a bit of challenge to it, which they went completely opposite of with PoF which is a cake walk. And any complicated build that is compensated faily is nerferd hard until the easy builds are at the top due to accessability. 

You would be a terrible detective to say the least. Ignoring any hint and signs, refusing to look deeper at the evidence, and claiming that all the blood, weapons, and periphenalia we found in the suspected killers apartment give us no information because we don't have the suspect in custody to question. You can't just make everything a schrodingers box because we have more than just a box. This isn't a philosophical debate, this is looking at the behavior patterns of a company and making a future prediction based on past behaviors. 

[Obtena.7952]

48 minutes ago, ScottBroChill.3254 said:

This isn't a philosophical debate, this is looking at the behavior patterns of a company and making a future prediction based on past behaviors. 

You're right ... and based on Anet's behaviour pattern, I'm making a future prediction they aren't going to move away from how they balance the game, at least not to the point where they start changing the reasons they do class changes. Things being 'boring' because the meta doesn't change ... that's already a problem players can solve without Anet doing any changes to the game. 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[ScottBroChill.3254]

21 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

You're right ... and based on Anet's behaviour pattern, I'm making a future prediction they aren't going to move away from how they balance the game, at least not to the point where they start changing the reasons they do class changes. Things being 'boring' because the meta doesn't change ... that's already a problem players can solve without Anet doing any changes to the game. 

But you're removing the psychology from the situation. Basically the psychology of people following what metabattle and the raid benchmarks show. LFG systems are gonna demand the top performers reguardless of the practicality of it. For example, teapot just released a video of how effective non meta builds and team comps can compete fine for raids and in a practical purpose will make 99% of the population complete these encounters quicker with greater success due to it being a safer way to play and so it minimizes the chances of having to wipe and restart. First, I doubt that that one video will do much of anything of how team comps continue to be played. Second, we all have known this anyway but decide to stick to the meta due to everyone understanding their parts/roles and thus making it more understandable and standardize. My build comp needs a healbrand, if I find another healbrand I know what build I'm getting and I have a metric for how that build should be performing. Also, the meta makes it so there will be more healbrands which makes it easier to find those missing pieces of a team comp. If less people were playing with the same set of skills that fit into most team comps , then it would be more difficult to fill out a working team. I think a large part of people following the meta is because it takes away the mental part of tyrying to figure out a team comp, even if a different comp would be more beneficial becuase most people don't have that kind of game sense to formulate a well structured team, even if it isn't hard. It's another problem to solve and since most people are casuals they don't want to think about that. 

So from that opinion of people sticking to the meta to increase predictability of performance, to fit easier into a team due to higher density of specific build types (healbrand, alacren, scourge, etc), and people following builds because they don't want to think for themeselves, this leads to my next point....

They balance around easier builds and nerf hard ones so that way the metrics show that easier builds are the best, casual players follow said builds because they can't be bothered to try and make their own effective one (which nowadays is hard due to the nerfing of many playstyles), experienced players play said builds because the performance ceiling is higher and they can take advantage of that. You can play your own build all you want in this game, but when it comes to any party based content that isn't a braindead meta of spamming 1, you will find yourself not wanted into groups because you have a square peg and they are looking for a circle peg. You just don't fit into that puzzle piece. Even if it would work fine, mentally, people aren't going to want to risk trying something new when all the pro's are playing a particular way and they want to copy that way.

And Obtena, I'm not disagreeing with you in that I also don't think they are planning on changing their balance direction. I'm only arguing the reason why they do it. which is basically to make the game easier for casuals. Other people and myself, seem to also be arguing that it's kind of a bad thing for those of us who in the tier of players between casuals and hardcore players who actually like varied builds, buildcrafting, and do partake in harder content every so often and not just trying to play a walking and press 1 simulator. It's also bad for new players when they see a lack of diversity in classes and builds and think professions like mesmer, ele, and thief are trash due to experienced player perception and the constant nerf bat making them harder than they were before to play, especially for new players.

I think my main issue with your argument(s) isn't the content of what your saying, because really all it is is "it is what it is" type of arguments. My issue is you shut down discussion. You say anet is going to do what anets going to do. That is true. But they are also influenced by the playerbase and companies generally derive a lot of helpful suggestions from player reception and feedback. You are basically telling everyone to stop givining feedback because you theorize it will do nothing. Instead of taking a point in the discussion and defending it, you are arguing against the discussion itself and saying it's pointless. It is getting very tiring for people on the forum, sorry if I'm speaking for everyone (tell me I'm wrong if I am), to have just a constant devils advocate that doesn't even have counter points, just a bunch of "we don't know what Anets thinking" and "play how you want, why do you care about balance" types of retorts. 

[Obtena.7952]

21 minutes ago, ScottBroChill.3254 said:

But you're removing the psychology from the situation. Basically the psychology of people following what metabattle and the raid benchmarks show. 

No I'm not ... because that's already part of the history being considered. I'm not talking about about meta builds. I'm talking about balance. If people's psychology are preventing them from not playing meta builds ... that's NOT a problem Anet needs to solve by constantly changing the game for them. 

I'm shutting down discussion? Depends who is in the discussion. I mean, what is the discussion here? There is lots and if we have to generate lots of discussion for the point to be understood ... then so be it. The main theme here is 'more balance' because 'not meta'. Except it doesn't work that way. 

Here is MY problem with these threads. Complaining about the fact that there are optimal builds to generate a reason for a class buff doesn't make sense. That's metapushing. Also, of ALL the problems with classes, balancing to meta is the LEAST important one to think about, which is probably why we don't see Anet doing it.  

Edited January 17, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[AliamRationem.5172]

6 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Here is MY problem with these threads. Complaining about the fact that there are optimal builds to generate a reason for a class buff doesn't make sense. That's metapushing. 

MY problem with these threads is you can't talk about anything on this forum without having it hijacked by your incessant vomit-trolling.  Can we get a kittening post limit, block feature or something?  Mods. Please lock thread.  Thanks.

[Obtena.7952]

9 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

MY problem with these threads is you can't talk about anything on this forum ...

Except we are talking about the topic so what's the problem? You obviously want Anet to change the game so "THE 3" aren't dominating ... you simply have to wait and hope that happens because that's how the game works.  It's dependent on Anet balancing activities ... and you know how that works. 

The only problem here is that this topic has already been talked about like ... hundreds of times (and most of the time, it starts with someone complaining about meta). The discussion doesn't change because the way Anet balances classes doesn't change and the fact that meta exists and the reasons why it exist don't change. 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[AliamRationem.5172]

10 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Except we are talking about the topic so what's the problem? You obviously want Anet to change the game so "THE 3" aren't dominating ... you simply have to wait and hope that happens because that's how the game works.  It's dependent on Anet balancing activities ... and you know how that works. 

My problem is I put up a thread and like so many others on this forum, you drown out all discussion until only the 1 person stupid enough to try to have the last word with you ends up in an endless back-and-forth.  Look at the post count.  I have 12 posts in my own thread, most of them replying to you until I stopped bothering.  You and the person dumb enough to argue with you indefinitely about nothing have 75 posts in this thread.

Do you not understand how obnoxious that is?

It's no wonder people start moving to other options like reddit, where people who do what you do get downvoted and their posts hidden.

Edited January 17, 2022 by AliamRationem.5172

[Obtena.7952]

8 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

My problem is I put up a thread and like so many others on this forum, you drown out all discussion until only the 1 person stupid enough to try to have the last word with you ends up in an endless back-and-forth.  Look at the post count.  I have 12 posts in my own thread, most of them replying to you until I stopped bothering.  You and the person dumb enough to argue with you indefinitely about nothing have 75 posts in this thread.

Do you not understand how obnoxious that is?

Hey, these threads generate lots of discussion because people are passionate about the game ... and that IS what having a forum is all about. If it requires 75 posts so I'm not misunderstood or my words don't be misrepresented ... I'm going to do that. As long as I'm not breaking the rules, that's what the forum is all about. 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[AliamRationem.5172]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Hey, these threads generate lots of discussion because people are passionate about the game. If it requires 75 posts so I'm not misunderstood or my words being misrepresented ... I'm going to do that. As long as I'm not breaking the rules, that's what the forum is about people. 

I appreciate your civil tone, but I would rather we have self-moderation and the incivility that comes along with it than deal with your brand of trolling.  It's worse in my book because it stifles all conversation.  If you hadn't noticed, pretty much everyone bailed on this thread once you fired up the Obtena steamroller.

[Obtena.7952]

5 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I appreciate your civil tone, but I would rather we have self-moderation and the incivility that comes along with it than deal with your brand of trolling.  It's worse in my book because it stifles all conversation.  If you hadn't noticed, pretty much everyone bailed on this thread once you fired up the Obtena steamroller.

Well, no offense but ... yeah ... because the 'discussion' here isn't new and we know what the result is anyways. The "hey, 3 classes are meta, FIX IT" isn't exactly a message that's going to have much energy ... and you know why right?

I mean, I'm sure you don't want to hear my 'why meta isn't a reason for class changes' diatribe again do you? You don't seem in the mood. 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Obtena.7952