As a returning player, i'd like to ask, what's the situation of the PvE endgame content?

[Renegated.4132]

As the title, I want to know by mouth of the players + the devs (by hands in this case) how the raids are right now, and future plans of it, like adding new ones.

 

I've readed on reddit that ANet sees the PvE content as a waste of resources, since it's not for everyone (lies, just put a bit of effort to it, anyone can do it, if I can, you can), plus "creating lore for it" it's a waste of resources. In that case, ¿Why don't use existing lore? For example, a portal leding to the past, where players can run The Foundry of Failed Creations event (I haven't played the first GW, so I don't know if it works or if you dismantle it on GW1, in case it still works, you just go to dismantle it), create a raid where you find a way to finally put the ghosts of Ascalon to rest, recreate the war between humanity and mursaat where after clearing you see how Saul is betrayed by the gods he workships... (again, a raid in the past), there's a lot of lore that can be "raided".

 

I don't know if it's true that they decided to leave the endgame PvE content die in a corner, but if it's, please don't, the challenges are what makes an MMO fun on the PvE side.

[Bakeneko.5826]

Raids are no longer developed, next expac we get strikes balanced around raid difficulty.

 

You read on reddit, that's your problem. Reddit is worst possible source of anything due how it works (like/dislike system that creates echo chamber for opinion of the day while sending everything else into the abyss).

 

Also, they left raids to die in the corner, fractals are still alive, if somewhat slow on release.

[Renegated.4132]

So, basically the "Way to enter raids" without having to go full yolo on them ended up killing the raids.

 

Nice I guess.

 

Unless they do it REALLY WELL with the strikes, they basically murdered the PvE fanbase when it comes to PvE instanced content, because iirc, the only strikes that really put a bit of challenge are Voice of Jormag and the bridge battle, and still are kinda easy compared to certain non-final raid bosses.

 

Basically GW2 is about to end like Black Desert, you build up your character and then... Then what? Raids are no more, strikes unless they fix it are not really a challenge, fractals unless you want to go COWABUNGA! by doing it on hard more, are a sweep and to something else, and doing meta-events it's not possible unless you find a map with people doing it (and on certain maps, that's a miracle).

Edited January 8, 2022 by Renegated.4132

[Krzysztof.5973]

Raids are dead and we get 1 fractal every 2 years 🙃

[Infusion.7149]

"Strikes are not really a challenge" ... go do Forging Steel with all CMs with all random classes or even any PUG. Boneskinner still wipes PUGs to this day and so does Whisper of Jormag if you get people that don't run scourges and/or people that like to run around with chains everywhere.

To assume that every Strike CM is going to be Shiverpeak Pass level difficulty is confusing labeling with actuality.

Also WVW exists and is a "cornerstone gamemode". 😆

[Cynder.2509]

To keep it quick and short: 
Play the meta classes, have at least 250+ LI KP and do at least 99% of the snowcrows benchmark performance or get kicked. That's basically the engame. 

[Linken.6345]

4 hours ago, Cynder.2509 said:

To keep it quick and short: 
Play the meta classes, have at least 250+ LI KP and do at least 99% of the snowcrows benchmark performance or get kicked. That's basically the engame. 

more like 60% but yea what ever.

[Raizel.8175]

 

9 hours ago, Cynder.2509 said:

To keep it quick and short: 
Play the meta classes, have at least 250+ LI KP and do at least 99% of the snowcrows benchmark performance or get kicked. That's basically the engame. 

That's wrong, even though it's sadly what's displayed to the community through the LFG.

 

The thing is that GW2 is one of the most unsocial MMORPGs out there - sure, you have banter and chatting and all that stuff, but in the end, there isn't any substantial socialization in the game. That's due to how the game is designed - it revolves around the lowest common denominator because of design-choices like shared participation etc. Socializing simply isn't necessary for most parts of the game. That's why finding 9 other people with the same interests in instanced PvE is that hard in GW2 and probably the most difficult part about raiding in general. In that regard, just like in most other more modern MMORPGs, socialization is "outsourced" onto Discord-Servers etc. You really have to dig hard to get yourself into a decent raid- and/or training-guild. Once that hurdle is passed though, you're more or less good to go - even if you don't pass these ridiculous LI/KP-requirements.

 

Snowcrows benchmarks are quite stupid anyways and most experienced players know that. Raids are first and foremost about mechanics after all. As long as you deal decent damage and deal well with mechanics, you're going to be fine. I don't even know why there aren't per boss benchmarks anymore on Snowcrows. These were a lot more valuable than useless Golem-benchmarks.

[Vilin.8056]

The ugly truth behind the reason of these end-game content nerf, is that in general, the average player base of many MMOs, if not particularly this one, are getting older of age comparing to gamers of other genre, and the game must adapt to keep the monetization running.

You will likely the majority of development resource poured into retirement-home contents, sugar coated with epic scenery, that rewards you by simply participating, instead of anything that will make your palm sweat.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Vilin.8056

[yann.1946]

On 1/8/2022 at 1:02 AM, Renegated.4132 said:

As the title, I want to know by mouth of the players + the devs (by hands in this case) how the raids are right now, and future plans of it, like adding new ones.

 

On 1/8/2022 at 1:02 AM, Renegated.4132 said:

I've readed on reddit that ANet sees the PvE content as a waste of resources, since it's not for everyone (lies, just put a bit of effort to it, anyone can do it, if I can, you can),

That does not refute the point though, theirs a difference between being unable to do something, and not enjoying doing something.

On 1/8/2022 at 1:02 AM, Renegated.4132 said:

plus "creating lore for it" it's a waste of resources. In that case, ¿Why don't use existing lore? For example, a portal leding to the past, where players can run The Foundry of Failed Creations event (I haven't played the first GW, so I don't know if it works or if you dismantle it on GW1, in case it still works, you just go to dismantle it), create a raid where you find a way to finally put the ghosts of Ascalon to rest, recreate the war between humanity and mursaat where after clearing you see how Saul is betrayed by the gods he workships... (again, a raid in the past), there's a lot of lore that can be "raided".

 

On 1/8/2022 at 1:02 AM, Renegated.4132 said:

I don't know if it's true that they decided to leave the endgame PvE content die in a corner, but if it's, please don't, the challenges are what makes an MMO fun on the PvE side.

Thats why we get strikes cms. Who should be on the level of raids. At this moment their is no reason to believe they will not be adequate in difficulty (theirs also no reason to believe they will), so its better to wait till they arrive to judge.

[yann.1946]

On 1/9/2022 at 8:33 AM, Cynder.2509 said:

To keep it quick and short: 
Play the meta classes, have at least 250+ LI KP and do at least 99% of the snowcrows benchmark performance or get kicked. That's basically the engame. 

I always wonder if people actually think this is the case, or they are just using hyperbole to make some point.

[Bakeneko.5826]

56 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

On 1/9/2022 at 9:33 AM, Cynder.2509 said:

 

I always wonder if people actually think this is the case, or they are just using hyperbole to make some point.

Yes and no. There are groups like that, also there are people who ask for 250kp to get carried. Doesn't mean it's not happening, but i agree, it's not as big of a deal, as people make it to be

[Cyninja.2954]

52 minutes ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

Yes and no. There are groups like that, also there are people who ask for 250kp to get carried. Doesn't mean it's not happening, but i agree, it's not as big of a deal, as people make it to be

 

Mostly left over hyperbole from the past.

 

The influx of new players from other MMORPGs, and some of them into raids and challenging group content here, has been an interesting eye opener as far as how "difficult" content actually is. That is to say: not that difficult when compared to experienced players from FF14 or WoW used to challenging content in those games.

 

Tells one all that is needed to know about how "skilled" some veteran players in this game actually are, struggling with this content (which is not to say one has to master or become omega good at this game, to each what they find fun, it just puts certain skill in let's say "perspective").

 

Meanwhile communities have formed over the years which try to help, promote and teach challenging content to players willing to learn. Which has also lowered the bar and effort required to enter if one so desires.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[yann.1946]

48 minutes ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

Yes and no. There are groups like that, also there are people who ask for 250kp to get carried. Doesn't mean it's not happening, but i agree, it's not as big of a deal, as people make it to be

In a big enough group, any behavior will be present. Think of the worst thing you can think of and their will be people in this game having done that. 

 

I hope your right and its mostly just hyperbole. 🙂

[yann.1946]

14 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

Mostly left over hyperbole from the past.

 

The influx of new players from other MMORPGs, and some of them into raids and challenging group content here, has been an interesting eye opener as far as how "difficult" content actually is. That is to say: not that difficult when compared to experienced players from FF14 or WoW used to challenging content in those games.

Its pretty ironic, because i think gw2 has the highest possible ceiling when talking about difficulty. (it would make it almost uncompletable by most of the population ofcourse.)

14 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Tells one all that is needed to know about how "skilled" some veteran players in this game actually are, struggling with this content (which is not to say one has to master or become omega good at this game, to each what they find fun, it just puts certain skill in let's say "perspective").

 

Meanwhile communities have formed over the years which try to help, promote and teach challenging content to players willing to learn. Which has also lowered the bar and effort required.

 

[Raizel.8175]

On 1/10/2022 at 1:38 PM, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

Mostly left over hyperbole from the past.

 

The influx of new players from other MMORPGs, and some of them into raids and challenging group content here, has been an interesting eye opener as far as how "difficult" content actually is. That is to say: not that difficult when compared to experienced players from FF14 or WoW used to challenging content in those games.

 

Tells one all that is needed to know about how "skilled" some veteran players in this game actually are, struggling with this content (which is not to say one has to master or become omega good at this game, to each what they find fun, it just puts certain skill in let's say "perspective").

 

Meanwhile communities have formed over the years which try to help, promote and teach challenging content to players willing to learn. Which has also lowered the bar and effort required to enter if one so desires.

I'd be cautious about such remarks. FFXIV/WoW are inherently different from GW2 - not just in terms of combat system. GW2 is a lot more fragmented in its game modes than FFXIV and WoW. Raids also particularly suffer from being weekly content which in turn leads to a rather long learning curve. I don't really think that one game is better than the other. The target audiences are just different and it's a fact that GW2 caters to the more casual audience - which is also one of the reasons why there are so very few fractal and raid releases. The average player of each title is probably roughly on the same skill level anyway. The perspective you have is probably skewed since most people that switch to other MMORPGs predominantly belong to the hardcore audience. Also, games like WoW and FFXIV are worse when it comes to cheesing content with tactical overlays. TACO is still quite tame in that regard.

[Nephalem.8921]

On 1/9/2022 at 6:13 PM, Raizel.8175 said:

Snowcrows benchmarks are quite stupid anyways and most experienced players know that. Raids are first and foremost about mechanics after all. As long as you deal decent damage and deal well with mechanics, you're going to be fine. I don't even know why there aren't per boss benchmarks anymore on Snowcrows. These were a lot more valuable than useless Golem-benchmarks.

What mechanics? Most bosses have like no mechanics at all and good players can do a perfect golem rotation on almost all bosses. Burst timings and short phases are the only thing pushing some builds ahead. Any experienced player knows that raid mechanics are a joke and its dps above everything. Gw2 raids would be casual content in other games but 90% of the playerbase is so bad that raids are seen as hardcore.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

On 1/9/2022 at 9:13 AM, Raizel.8175 said:

Snowcrows benchmarks are quite stupid anyways and most experienced players know that. Raids are first and foremost about mechanics after all. As long as you deal decent damage and deal well with mechanics, you're going to be fine. I don't even know why there aren't per boss benchmarks anymore on Snowcrows. These were a lot more valuable than useless Golem-benchmarks.

 I really wish this were true, but it isn't.  Just earlier this week I quit a static that was attempting to form because the guy forming it had the gall to lecture me on the importance of 90% benchmark videos when I brought up that I was disabled but mechanically capable.  This was after being rejected by the previous two groups who... also demanded 90%+ benchmarks, and passing over 3 others who went as high as 95% benchmarks with 500 legendary insight.  If they don't list it in squad or LFG requirements, it comes up once you start talking to people.  In fact, through this entire half-year + of looking at raid statics, I've seen only one that wasn't a stickler for benchmarks.  Sadly, they disbanded after the person who headed it had to go to college.

The standard of benchmarking is still the most prominent factor when deciding who join a group.  Being mechanically knowledgeable and capable comes later, after they've vetted how big your DPS is.  Keep in mind to even get that high you'll need full ascended gear with twenty +5 stat infusions, all the while eating ascended food and utility buffs, so really this is also a wealth gate.  

Edited January 14, 2022 by Blood Red Arachnid.2493

[Cyninja.2954]

4 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

 I really wish this were true, but it isn't.  Just earlier this week I quit a static that was attempting to form because the guy forming it had the gall to lecture me on the importance of 90% benchmark videos when I brought up that I was disabled but mechanically capable.  This was after being rejected by the previous two groups who... also demanded 90%+ benchmarks, and passing over 3 others who went as high as 95% benchmarks with 500 legendary insight.  If they don't list it in squad or LFG requirements, it comes up once you start talking to people.  In fact, through this entire half-year + of looking at raid statics, I've seen only one that wasn't a stickler for benchmarks.  Sadly, they disbanded after the person who headed it had to go to college.

 

The common denominator here remains you. Maybe you need to lower your expectations as far as static and start looking for less high end statics (or wanna be statics). There are enough guilds around which recruit players or don't require such ludicrous expectations while raiding regularly.

 

Still I will agree that it is likely that as the entire raid population declines, it becomes more of an issue to find other to play with which suit one. This might be worse on NA than EU due to player pool differences.

 

Quote

The standard of benchmarking is still the most prominent factor when deciding who join a group.  Being mechanically knowledgeable and capable comes later, after they've vetted how big your DPS is.  Keep in mind to even get that high you'll need full ascended gear with twenty +5 stat infusions, all the while eating ascended food and utility buffs, so really this is also a wealth gate.  

 

If you are having issues with meeting benchmarks, why are you applying to dps spots? The best use of mechanically knowledgeable players is on supports, and those are always in demand.

 

As far as infusions and ascended:

- yes getting full ascended can be an issue for demanding statics, which should not be an issue for veteran players once they reach that level of experience

- WvW +5 stat infusions come at 90 laurels for a full set (18 infusions), hardly a huge wealth gate (2-3 months per character if one has 0)

Edited January 14, 2022 by Cyninja.2954