Let Me Get This Straight...(5man queue)

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

You people have been bitching and moaning about how MMR is crap and boo boo Anet killed peeveepeeas and how so many matches are 50/500 blowouts...

And then you ask for 5-man queue?

Explain this massive lapse in logic here.Because unless I have something very wrong, all you would be getting is blowout matches.

Only instead of every now and then, it's every match.

Explain.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

How do you expect those bronzies to ever get anywhere looking 0/500 every match ever played?

How well does Monthly AT work out for teams under silver3?

[Kuya.6495]

what 5 man queue?

[Morwath.9817]

Premades in "soloQ" remind me why I've left GW2 after HoT release until recently. Premades abusing "low ranked" team mates (e.g. golds) to reduce PIP loss on match loss, so after I've returned my ranked history was like: +8-10 pts per win and -40 pts per loss, "fun" climbing it was, kek.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

@Kuya.6495 said:what 5 man queue?

Team queue.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Morwath.9817 said:Premades in "soloQ" remind me why I've left GW2 after HoT release until recently. Premades abusing "low ranked" team mates (e.g. golds) to reduce PIP loss on match loss, so after I've returned my ranked history was like: +8-10 pts per win and -40 pts per loss, "fun" climbing it was, kek.Isnt that the reason everyone left, lol? Win a match 500/495 by a hair and everyone including the enemy go GG... get 10 points. Loose a match 50/500 where all enemies outrank your teammates, they got 2 two-mans and one on your side gave up and is now just spamming chat. Loose 40 points. Byebye sPvP.

[Alatar.7364]

@Omar Aschi Popp.7496 said:You people have been kitten and moaning about how MMR is crap and boo boo Anet killed peeveepeeas and how so many matches are 50/500 blowouts...

And then you ask for 5-man queue?

Explain this massive lapse in logic here.Because unless I have something very wrong, all you would be getting is blowout matches.

Only instead of every now and then, it's every match.

Explain.

Explanation is simple. The people who were asking for 5man que are not the people who were complaining. Also, for most of those losing ones who asked for it, it would mean they themselves can join 5man team. For them, a chance for Victory thus gets higher whether they face Randoms or another 5man.Too much generalization here.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Omar Aschi Popp.7496 said:You people have been kitten and moaning about how MMR is crap and boo boo Anet killed peeveepeeas and how so many matches are 50/500 blowouts...

And then you ask for 5-man queue?

Explain this massive lapse in logic here.Because unless I have something very wrong, all you would be getting is blowout matches.

Only instead of every now and then, it's every match.

Explain.

Explanation is simple. The people who were asking for 5man que are not the people who were complaining. Also, for most of those losing ones who asked for it, it would mean they themselves can join 5man team. For them, a chance for Victory gets higher whether they face Randoms or another 5man.Too much generalization here.

But... but that's so chaotic, and equally as bad as we have now, only with no semblance of order.

And still gamblig.

[Alatar.7364]

@Omar Aschi Popp.7496 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Omar Aschi Popp.7496 said:You people have been kitten and moaning about how MMR is crap and boo boo Anet killed peeveepeeas and how so many matches are 50/500 blowouts...

And then you ask for 5-man queue?

Explain this massive lapse in logic here.Because unless I have something very wrong, all you would be getting is blowout matches.

Only instead of every now and then, it's every match.

Explain.

Explanation is simple. The people who were asking for 5man que are not the people who were complaining. Also, for most of those losing ones who asked for it, it would mean they themselves can join 5man team. For them, a chance for Victory gets higher whether they face Randoms or another 5man.Too much generalization here.

But... but that's so chaotic, and equally as bad as we have now, only with no semblance of order.

And still gamblig.

Not really.The real gamble is your Team rather than enemy.Every match you have 50% chance per Team mate, that you will get horribad Team mates. 5man que would eliminate that greatly. However most of the PvPers don't/can't have 5man, thus more people would have to bear uneven consequences, which is why I am saying that the people who asked for 5man Que are not the people who complain, except few who know they could make a Team. That's why the Generalization.

[feetpicenjoyer.6418]

In a 5 man situation you can choose who you want to play with and have proper communication. You get to play conquest the way this gamemode was intended to be played while having a good time.

Having 4 random mongs with random picks on your team who may or may not wipe to svanir and are clinically blind while they have no idea the minimap even exists is not fun. At all.

Ranked's often decided by who has the better comp and in solo it's pure gamble, you may get 3 thieves and 2 eles vs 2 war 2 scourge 1 firebrand.

Try forcing raiders in PvE to be unable to organize their own team and play with 8-9 randoms instead and watch that community tear itself to shreds before dying.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

@NotASmurf.1725 said:wipe to svanirYou are making that up!

Ranked's often decided by who has the better comp and in solo it's pure gamble, you may get 3 thieves and 2 eles vs 2 war 2 scourge 1 firebrand.

Try forcing raiders in PvE to be unable to organize their own team and play with 8-9 randoms instead and watch that community tear itself to shreds before dying.

I guess my worry is for people who are unable to queue with others because of xyz OR they are all equally bad.

But I see what you both are saying, I don't remember how it (queue)was at launch to be honest, other than forging PvP rewards.

[Llethander.3972]

But wait, wouldn't the logical way to implement a 5-man queue system be to match 5-man queue teams against other 5-man queue teams and leave solo queueing players against other solo queueing players? Is that not the plan? (I have no idea)

[Morwath.9817]

@NotASmurf.1725 said:In a 5 man situation you can choose who you want to play with and have proper communication. You get to play conquest the way this gamemode was intended to be played while having a good time.

Having 4 random mongs with random picks on your team who may or may not wipe to svanir and are clinically blind while they have no idea the minimap even exists is not fun. At all.

Ranked's often decided by who has the better comp and in solo it's pure gamble, you may get 3 thieves and 2 eles vs 2 war 2 scourge 1 firebrand.

Try forcing raiders in PvE to be unable to organize their own team and play with 8-9 randoms instead and watch that community tear itself to shreds before dying.

If it was designed to be played the way you say, then:1) We would have in-game voice chat and/or voice commands like "inc far" etc.2) Team finding system, where players would be assigned to each other by profession preferences, role preferences etc...

[Sismis.5390]

-> @Dawdler.8521 said:

@Morwath.9817 said:Premades in "soloQ" remind me why I've left GW2 after HoT release until recently. Premades abusing "low ranked" team mates (e.g. golds) to reduce PIP loss on match loss, so after I've returned my ranked history was like: +8-10 pts per win and -40 pts per loss, "fun" climbing it was, kek.Isnt that the reason everyone left, lol? Win a match 500/495 by a hair and everyone including the enemy go GG... get 10 points. Loose a match 50/500 where all enemies outrank your teammates, they got 2 two-mans and one on your side gave up and is now just spamming chat. Loose 40 points. Byebye sPvP.

Hold on how is that any different then now?Playing now even when there is no 5 man i see people rage and complain and go afk.ONLY cause he died 1-2 times rushing enemy and doing brainless things.Right now its even worse the players we get random who are so ignorant.WHEN i ask somebody to swap class to match enemy composition they just give me the shit talk and do not want to switch.Then their map or general awareness is 0 and when they look at map they start trash talking.You noob why are all this and that and so on.With the previous 5 man quene i had 0 complains but hell some people just complain about anything.What my complain was is the match making what has the same issue unchanged.Getting randoms who do not class swap,and other part issues that are PROBLEMS from player side!Every problem we face in the arena is from PLAYERS not some sort of system 5 or 10 man team or WHAT ever.The problem is Human by nature is a selfish,jealous and sick why?Cause if someone is feeling crap he is out to make you feel shit too and try to ruin any fun for you.With that in mind i was watching the forum from time to time and facepalming.They have driven the any multilayer aspect out of sPvP making it the Antisocial corner with their complains.And btw general any PvP part here of the game they turned it into a cesspool breeding ground for the worst mentality ever.

[troops.8276]

In a perfect worldMatch making would actually work

Alleviating a lot of the problemsNot needing to blame each other

In a perfect worldDoing solo and team q separately would not beImpossible and could actually work by numbersOf active players availableTough that we don't live in a perfect world.

Do you see it? ;)

[Sismis.5390]

@troops.8276 said:In a perfect worldMatch making would actually work

Alleviating a lot of the problemsNot needing to blame each other

In a perfect worldDoing solo and team q separately would not beImpossible and could actually work by numbersOf active players availableTough that we don't live in a perfect world.

Do you see it? ;)

So by you logic in real life we have a perfect world?From the comment above just a conclusion.

About issue with match making the problem what creates problem is that simple.The issue has never changed since season 2,player A gets few games wins in a specific team "carried from others" has thx to the system rating while hes bad.Then he gets put into team while the system by some virtual numbers decided he needs to be on that team.That and other players composition we have some teams on both sides,by this virtual program we have 50-50 chance to win.

Again human factor cannot be measured by ANY program and we have constantly steam roll matches.Either Team A wins or Team B there is never balanced teams.Like yesterday i played i had stupid lame wins in row where my team steamrolled the other.Then from 18 games i played i had only 2 games where teams where even skill matched and was interesting.Rest of the Games where boring steamrolls with people showing their worst what they can in terms of behavior. Again such problem would not happen or crap experience when players would multi-class and get a feel from other classes and try to improve them self.Cause sometime like in real life if you hit a problem you work on it to get solved or like any human evolve improve your self.Then maybe we would not experience game in a rotten bad way.The issue is on the human side and where some stats cannot be mathematically calculated by any program.

[troops.8276]

@Sismis.5390 said:

@troops.8276 said:In a perfect worldMatch making would actually work

Alleviating a lot of the problemsNot needing to blame each other

In a perfect worldDoing solo and team q separately would not beImpossible and could actually work by numbersOf active players availableTough that we don't live in a perfect world.

Do you see it? ;)

So by you logic in real life we have a perfect world?From the comment above just a conclusion.

About issue with match making the problem what creates problem is that simple.The issue has never changed since season 2,player A gets few games wins in a specific team "carried from others" has thx to the system rating while hes bad.Then he gets put into team while the system by some virtual numbers decided he needs to be on that team.That and other players composition we have some teams on both sides,by this virtual program we have 50-50 chance to win.

Again human factor cannot be measured by ANY program and we have constantly steam roll matches.Either Team A wins or Team B there is never balanced teams.Like yesterday i played i had stupid lame wins in row where my team steamrolled the other.Then from 18 games i played i had only 2 games where teams where even skill matched and was interesting.Rest of the Games where boring steamrolls with people showing their worst what they can in terms of behavior. Again such problem would not happen or crap experience when players would multi-class and get a feel from other classes and try to improve them self.Cause sometime like in real life if you hit a problem you work on it to get solved or like any human evolve improve your self.Then maybe we would not experience game in a rotten bad way.The issue is on the human side and where some stats cannot be mathematically calculated by any program.

What?

In a perfect world"Players would multi class and get a feel from other classes and try to improve themselves"

The point is its NOT a perfect world.

It would be interesting though to see if a better MM algorithm could theoretically be achieved. I think it could. But at the expense of outliers and over all q time plus some big restructuring to the game mode.

Will it happen....Maybe in a perfect world.

[Sismis.5390]

MM cant help when there is a certain team composition.

Reason i experience game losses or enemy team.

Team lacks any condi clear class .Team lacks decent thief - thief goes close or far instead mid or something else what he needs to do.And does low DPS....Watching thief dying on bunker guard...Team lacks vs bunker team 2 spell breakers and other Condition or Boon corruption or any decent CC.Team lacks DPS at all having team where 3-4 of them fight 1 guy on point cant kill him. Again issue with players being strangely bad.Team members acting weird and doing weird rotation,1 goes mid 1 close 2 far one tries mid and gives up after pressure starts running away leaving 1 guy to die mid.

Just listed few issue i see DAILY what has nothing to do with MM rather part of Human problem.

[Morwath.9817]

@Sismis.5390 said:MM cant help when there is a certain team composition.

Reason i experience game losses or enemy team.

Team lacks any condi clear class .Team lacks decent thief - thief goes close or far instead mid or something else what he needs to do.And does low DPS....Watching thief dying on bunker guard...Team lacks vs bunker team 2 spell breakers and other Condition or Boon corruption or any decent CC.Team lacks DPS at all having team where 3-4 of them fight 1 guy on point cant kill him. Again issue with players being strangely bad.Team members acting weird and doing weird rotation,1 goes mid 1 close 2 far one tries mid and gives up after pressure starts running away leaving 1 guy to die mid.

Just listed few issue i see DAILY what has nothing to do with MM rather part of Human problem.

Many of them could be avoided, if players could tag for role they are willing to play (you already know they won't swap anwyay), so while queing you could:1) choose your role (e.g. support), or all avalible roles, if you're willing to switch2) choose what kind of setup you're willing to have (e.g. support, power DD, condi DD, tanky bruiser, +1/decapper) so you would get team you want to play withMaybe you would get longer ques, but for sure matches would have higher quality.

[Sismis.5390]

@Morwath.9817 said:

Many of them could be avoided, if players could tag for role they are willing to play (you already know they won't swap anwyay), so while queing you could:1) choose your role (e.g. support), or all avalible roles, if you're willing to switch2) choose what kind of setup you're willing to have (e.g. support, power DD, condi DD, tanky bruiser, +1/decapper) so you would get team you want to play withMaybe you would get longer ques, but for sure matches would have higher quality.

Seen that on other games like Neverwinter and so on.Players would lie select false role just to get into game cause they cant wait.Would not solve the problem what still lies on human side.

[troops.8276]

@Sismis.5390 said:MM cant help when there is a certain team composition.

Reason i experience game losses or enemy team.

Team lacks any condi clear class .Team lacks decent thief - thief goes close or far instead mid or something else what he needs to do.And does low DPS....Watching thief dying on bunker guard...Team lacks vs bunker team 2 spell breakers and other Condition or Boon corruption or any decent CC.Team lacks DPS at all having team where 3-4 of them fight 1 guy on point cant kill him. Again issue with players being strangely bad.Team members acting weird and doing weird rotation,1 goes mid 1 close 2 far one tries mid and gives up after pressure starts running away leaving 1 guy to die mid.

Just listed few issue i see DAILY what has nothing to do with MM rather part of Human problem.

Indeed. Does how players are allowed to pick their class/build in relation to team comp have an effect? Would this be covered under "some big restructuring to the game mode"?

Does MM work at all?

If one was allowed to create a team with a good composition from plat division and face them against the same team composition but with players picked from bronze division, who do you think would win? Coalescense in a way.

But again, wanting everyone else to play how you think they should (though I'm not explicitly saying you're wrong in how ppl should play) is about as unrealistic as me thinking that the MM can be improved. Both rely on a perfect world scenario to some degree.

[Morwath.9817]

@Sismis.5390 said:

@Morwath.9817 said:

Many of them could be avoided, if players could tag for role they are willing to play (you already know they won't swap anwyay), so while queing you could:1) choose your role (e.g. support), or all avalible roles, if you're willing to switch2) choose what kind of setup you're willing to have (e.g. support, power DD, condi DD, tanky bruiser, +1/decapper) so you would get team you want to play withMaybe you would get longer ques, but for sure matches would have higher quality.

Seen that on other games like Neverwinter and so on.Players would lie select false role just to get into game cause they cant wait.Would not solve the problem what still lies on human side.

With "report" function such thing shouldn't be problem, just dishonor fakes for eternity.

[troops.8276]

People are chaotic.That's why we have rules. Both social and legal.If the problem is ppl make poor choices in picking class/spec in relation to team/s comp then limiting the choices would be the only realistic thing to do. More rules. This though could push ppl away.But it's on Anet, the rule makers and enforcers, to do this. Unless they want to delegate by giving the necessary tools to us.

How about if access to freedom of choice is gated by mmr progression?

[MarkoNS.3261]

@Llethander.3972 said:But wait, wouldn't the logical way to implement a 5-man queue system be to match 5-man queue teams against other 5-man queue teams and leave solo queueing players against other solo queueing players? Is that not the plan? (I have no idea)

i dont think they would have enough teams to match teams exclusively with other teams.

[Sismis.5390]

@troops.8276 said:How about if access to freedom of choice is gated by mmr progression?

You answered that on your own with previous comment.That it will not work and currently is not working.MM right now takes win-los rating into account building teams up.Short meaning stats not your build,not your class spec nothing.Just some stats there to scrap team together and bon appetit.You like it or not.