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this class dont die! please do something! lich is OP, skills is OP

The first nerf necro thread of 2022! ūüėĄ

It's unlikely that Arenanet will ever touch Necromancers in a meaningful and appropriate way. For all we know, Arenanet doesn't even want Necromancers to not be over-tuned.

On 1/9/2022 at 12:26 AM, SHINING.5360 said:

this class dont die!

Meanwhile I just played a game where enemies coordinated to kill me and not let me play teamfights. Good thing my team took advantage.

But I agree with the lich being OP. 

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17 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

It's unlikely that Arenanet will ever touch Necromancers in a meaningful and appropriate way.

For all we know, Arenanet doesn't even want Necromancers to not be over-tuned.

Tbh I think we will, I think it won't happen til after EoD however tbh 

Its been hinted to expect large changes to core and current elites after EoD, it wouldn't suprise me if we saw survivability nerfs to both shrouds (core+reaper) at the trade off of some more defensive additions to our utility skills (a 2 for one when it comes to aiding harbinger)

I think we will also likely see nerfs to staff and maybe core Condi aswell. To nerf core in spvp and scourges dominance in PvE in a single blow. 

it'd likely straighten the proffession out Abit. 

 

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19 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

I think we will also likely see nerfs to staff

Is there even anything that can be nerfed on this weapon skillset? It's not even competitive against scepter as it is. The only thing that make it worth using in competitive is soul mark which is a trait. In PvE it's only use is for tagging mobs, even in WvW it's more used for tagging than anything (it's only other use being to counter thief's stealth).

I'm honestly shocked that people can even think that a nerf is needed to this weapon.

 

If the devs want to "nerf" core and reaper survivability, what they need to do (and that is true since feb 2020) is simply to nerf the capacity of the life force pool from 69% of the health pool to 46% of the health pool.

If the devs want to nerf "scourge's dominance", it's not it's damage that need to be looked at but it's ability to provide both damage and support at the same time (Yes, as much as people want to ignore it, this e-spec is as much a dps spec than it is a support spec! Without forgeting that there is plenty of spec that provide both support and damage at the same time but aren't pestered for nerfs like scourge is. When calling for nerfs, people only see what they want to get rid off not the whole picture).

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14 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

s there even anything that can be nerfed on this weapon skillset? It's not even competitive against scepter as it is. The only thing that make it worth using in competitive is soul mark which is a trait. In PvE it's only use is for tagging mobs, even in WvW it's more used for tagging than anything (it's only other use being to counter thief's stealth).

the OP is talking SPVP.

in SPVP the staff is very strong.. its litterally used on every build permanantly, its a Overall Winner for Necro in SPVP.

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1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

the OP is talking SPVP.

in SPVP the staff is very strong.. its litterally used on every build permanantly, its a Overall Winner for Necro in SPVP.


What they should prob hit is reaper attack in pvp and  lich. Give reaper the warr treatment,

I think its kinda obscene how reaper with as much defense as it has can do the kind of quick burst which easily outdamages a zerker warr, like thats just insane. Why can't warr burst like that on zerker as  easy or more in PVP?  A reaper should be doing less dmg than a zerker warr is cause they are glassy and reaper is super tanky.

Edited by Axl.8924
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1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

the OP is talking SPVP.

in SPVP the staff is very strong.. its litterally used on every build permanantly, its a Overall Winner for Necro in SPVP.

And like I said, the staff isn't strong in sPvP, Soul mark is strong in sPvP. You remove soul mark and barely anyone will ever use staff in sPvP, you nerf anything else on the staff and nothing would change. Staff in itself is a weak weapon (maybe "weak" isn't the word, but it's far from overperforming), whatever the gamemode.

Edited by Dadnir.5038
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1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

And like I said, the staff isn't strong in sPvP, Soul mark is strong in sPvP. You remove soul mark and barely anyone will ever use staff in sPvP, you nerf anything else on the staff and nothing would change. Staff in itself is a weak weapon (maybe "weak" isn't the word, but it's far from overperforming), whatever the gamemode.

well then u've located what possibly could be looked at to be nerfed.

it isnt in itself Overperforming.. but its contributing to a Overperforming build and a very stale Meta dont get me wrong i havent played continously.. but i've never personally seen staff Not being used in SPVP... and i did play the game a while before HoT launch even.

so it'd prolly by itself be good to See maybe we see some things rebuilt.. for the sake of a healthier proffession overall.

Ofcourse we can say "nerf this nerf that", but there would need to be trade offs to allow other builds to perform.. maybe Changes to things Such as Dagger and Greatsword (Which i'd love tosee get better value in SPVP), maybe a Nerf to passive sustain or even Remove shroud as a HP Bar completely (Given the fact its proven to be quite problematic in PvE Content anyway) In trade of maybe getting More active Defense (Although this maybe a huge buff to scourge.. given Scourge doesnt run on shroud bar anyway)

I dont rly see how they're gonna get harbinger working for necromancer without some Design changes at the core.. just because the elite Conflicts with the core proffessions strengths so much.

1 hour ago, Axl.8924 said:

What they should prob hit is reaper attack in pvp and  lich. Give reaper the warr treatment,

I think its kinda obscene how reaper with as much defense as it has can do the kind of quick burst which easily outdamages a zerker warr, like thats just insane. Why can't warr burst like that on zerker as  easy or more in PVP?  A reaper should be doing less dmg than a zerker warr is cause they are glassy and reaper is super tanky.

i'd rather see changes which maybe promote Different playstyles of Necromancer rather then just outright Nerfs. as i said above,

I think Loss of Shroud as a Second HP bar and we see More active defense through utilities given to Necromancer would overall be a boon to the proffession (Scourge would need balancing around this however given the the fact this would turn Scourge into a bunker specc if they didnt)

Reaper is a Weird situation in here tbh

Its Life force drains faster. it also takes longer to build comparitively. Reaper is not strong in a 1v1 because of this + its Long CDs while Warrior generally excels in duelling and Warrior does have some nasty burst the problem is its far more telegraphed I.E Counterable.

Reaper is a Teamfight DPS which depends highly on Support. Warrior is a Duellist.

Reaper isnt "super tanky" Either... its Shroud is its Only defense realistically and with the shroud nerfs in place around Reaper it makes Life force building in a 1v1 Near impossible to generate near fast enough realistically and in teamfights unless Players are just actively ignoring the reaper its life force will burn fast.

Reaper ironically Depends ALOT on a Support present.. without one ur  better off changing to core realistically.

if u wanna See Reaper become more telegraphed for example however... Simply pushing GS as its strongest build would be the ideal soluition. as GS is very Slow in animation + Well Telegraphed its a very fair and balanced weapon overall.. the problem is atm That every necro build alive Surrounds staff builds and mark spamming.

i'd advocate for

- Removal of Shroud HP Bar and turn it into a Power generation only realistically then change Reapers bar to work like holos (start at full drains during usuage)

- Nerf Soul mark and maybe Rebuild some of the skills around staff to ensure its not completely useless going forward

- Add some Active Sustain to the Necromancers Utility.

- Nerf Core necros Condi Damage and Buff Core Necros Power Damage

- Nerf Scourges Barrier to trade off for the added Sustain to necromancer through utility changes.

- Rework Dagger

- Some buffs to Greatsword (maybe only in SPVP changes)

- buff scepter abit to trade off for Core necros Condi Damage nerfs to try prevent Murdering DPS Scourge options.

thus would help harbingers sorry position currently While Nerfing both Core and Reapers current Sustain and putting it more in line with Other proffessions sustain by forcing Necro to lose DPS as a trade off to take active Sustain options for sustain.

Edited by Daddy.8125
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3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Removal of Shroud HP Bar and turn it into a Power generation only realistically then change Reapers bar to work like holos (start at full drains during usuage)

HAHAHA lol no. You need to rework the the whole concept of necro for that to work so you basically want another class.

 

3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

- Nerf Soul mark and maybe Rebuild some of the skills around staff to ensure its not completely useless going forward

LOL no. Why tho? Sure staff is strong but the reason core is strong right now is lich scaling so kittening well with power and shroud dmg mitigation of 50%. Maybe cut that to 33% or reduce shroud max hp like other suggested and the class is fine.

 

3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

- Add some Active Sustain to the Necromancers Utility.

Why? The class already has enough sustain? After nerfing shroud maybe you could do that to add more skill celing.

 

3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

- Nerf Scourges Barrier to trade off for the added Sustain to necromancer through utility changes.

Sure do it for PVE its already nerfed in PVP.

 

3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

- Rework Dagger

Clearly yes. Rework all underperforming weapons while you are at it. But necro needs a better power weapon.

 

3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

- Some buffs to Greatsword (maybe only in SPVP changes)

May revert the gravedigger changes.

 

3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

- Nerf Core necros Condi Damage and Buff Core Necros Power Damage

Isnt this just shifting the problem? Dmg is fine overall. People are just annoyed with the sutain and lich burst. I mean there are people who have problems with everything like staff or granades from ingi or what ever...

 

3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

thus would help harbingers sorry position currently While Nerfing both Core and Reapers current Sustain and putting it more in line with Other proffessions sustain by forcing Necro to lose DPS as a trade off to take active Sustain options for sustain.

How would this help harbinger? Its still a class that lacks active sustain? Just by nerfing core/reaper/scourge you make the performance lack smaller but this doesnt buff harbinger one bit. Maybe add some kind of active sustain on harbinger to make it actually work in someway or even better give some clear disgn to make it excel at something with a designated weakness.

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1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

well then u've located what possibly could be looked at to be nerfed.

This is an open secret... Anyone that's been in the game for a while know that if it werent for soul mark's LF gen and the strategic value of having the marks give you the head up when a stealthed foe is creeping behind you, nobody would use this weapon.

The staff by itself have low damage, low condition output and poorly designed utility mechanism.

You might have seen staff widely used in sPvP but it has never been because of it's skill were particularly strong, elementalist can probably outdps the necromancer's staff as a whole just by using lava font and nobody feel the need to ask for a lava font nerf as it doesn't need nerfs.

1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

I think Loss of Shroud as a Second HP bar and we see More active defense through utilities given to Necromancer would overall be a boon to the proffession

Based on experience, this is unrealistic.

Well, I'd say that you have the common point of view of someone that lack the background of the 9 year of necromancer balancing. To put it simply, the core tenets of the necromancer are these:

  1. Necromancer is designed to mitigate damage through health point (be it health, barrier or shroud). Thus, when the devs give active defense to the necromancer it's by giving them skills that grant the necromancer health points (life siphon, barrier or LF)
  2. Shroud is both the main defense and the main offense of the necromancer (core and reaper), and as such mitigating damage with shroud hurt the overall offense of the necromancer. (Harbinger and scourge both break free from this restriction and both are highly controversial)
  3. The optimal dps rotation of a necromancer is 10s in shroud followed by 10s out of shroud where you rebuild your LF.

 

The necromancer in sPvP:

  1. Condition damage: You can ignore any sPvP conplain about condition damage being to "high" as people in sPvP simply hate on condition damage no matter the profession. In itself the necromancer is slow at ramping up damaging conditions compared to other profession by design. Be warned that, often, people in sPvP complain about "condi builds" that are in fact "Power builds" that apply conditions (the condition damage output being ridiculously low on those builds).
  2. Power damage: While it's often not seen as much of a concern is sPvP, reaper can be overwhelming in WvW due to "PvE gear". Core in itself can hit hard as well with a glassy build which is reason enough to not buff power damage beyond there current state. Lich need it's AA tuned down (best would probably be to change lich form the same way they changed plague form but unfortunately the devs have always ignored this suggestion).
  3. Support: So far, the necromancer's support isn't especially great. It's healing output (barrier included) isn't even in the top 3 of the professions with highest healing output (it's far from being last as the mesmer hold the spot firmly). It's boon output is decent but not really strong enough to threaten any other profession boon output.
  4. Defense: The necromancer tank with it's HP and that's where things get ugly. In a high damage output environment this defensive philosophy isn't viable and that's what we had before Feb 2020 patch. On another hand, in a low damage environment this defensive philosophy can easily outshine the other defensive philosophy and that's why people cry about necromancer since Feb 2020 patch.

To balance sPvP while respecting the core design of the necromancer the devs need to

  1. Filter out the ridiculous "condition conplains" as they are, ultimately, irrelevant.
  2. Either heavily nerf lich's AA in competitive or simply give lich form the plagueform treatement.
  3. Nerf the LF pool capacity in competitive modes. Nerfing the LF capacity will ultimately allow people to break the shroud's LF shield more easily, which in return will nerf both the necromancer's survivability and necromancer damage.

As for scourge in PvE, what this spec don't need is a core nerf. What it need is to dissociate damage and support by:

  1. Removing the "manifest sand shade" proc from F2-F3-F4
  2. Make Desert empowerment remove damage and torment component from manifest sand shade to apply barrier and regen (3s) instead.
  3. Remove the "burn when you apply torment" on demonic lore and replace it by "Sand cascade now burn and deal damage instead of granting barrier".
  4. Change Desert shroud to no longer pulse damage and torment but instead pulse protection (1s) and resolution (1s).
  5. Switch sadistic searing and herald of sorrow. Sandstorm shroud no longer grant barrier to allies on detonation. Sadistic searing no longer apply burn on the next sand shade summoned after a punishment, instead it make the character cast lesser serpent siphon when using desert shroud. Lesser serpent siphon is the regular serpent siphon casted at the caster's feet (like lesser enfeeble on weakening shroud).

That done, people would find it a lot harder to have both damage and barrier output at the same time which would make scourge a lot less attractive in PvE.

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16 minutes ago, Bale.3851 said:

HAHAHA lol no. You need to rework the the whole concept of necro for that to work so you basically want another class.

Considering Core and Reaper both are flawed as all hell in Group/raid pvE.. and Scourge and oncoming Harbinger. both having No Shroud hp bar am i realistically asking for another class?.. The shroud HP bars are being forgotten. Anet have Left them behind at this point.

I'd Argue im asking for Core and Reaper to be Caught uptoo todays Necromancer Design instead of old to overall allow These speccs to properly be Supported without being Broken by mechanics which now are nerfed into the Floor.. DPS Scourge builds got annihilated due to the PvP nerfs to deal with the OP Support scourge builds.

16 minutes ago, Bale.3851 said:

LOL no. Why tho? Sure staff is strong but the reason core is strong right now is lich scaling so kittening well with power and shroud dmg mitigation of 50%. Maybe cut that to 33% or reduce shroud max hp like other suggested and the class is fine.

Because its a Major Dominating Factor. which is Unhealthy for Versatility among builds. maybe nerf is a too strong word... Maybe Refunction to keep Staff a good option. but not having it the only PvP option. would be a better concept.

16 minutes ago, Bale.3851 said:

Why? The class already has enough sustain? After nerfing shroud maybe you could do that to add more skill celing.

As i said, its the trade off.. but it allows both Scourge and Harbinger to have some form of Access to some active Sustain, are we forgetting now after the nerfs to its Support both harbinger and Scourge will be Dogsh*t in SPVP or any competitive mode due to 0 survivability.

They've deleted the Shroud bar effectively. im just asking instead of putting Down 2 Speccs with the oncoming changes which we know will happen to try and make harbinger work we'll see core / Shroud Nerfed to oblivion regardless because Harbinger cant function as of current.

16 minutes ago, Bale.3851 said:

Clearly yes. Rework all underperforming weapons while you are at it. But necro needs a better power weapon.

well thats what im hoping Dagger will Serve as, our offhands are pretty decent in either regard in PvP Atleast.

16 minutes ago, Bale.3851 said:

How would this help harbinger? Its still a class that lacks active sustain? Just by nerfing core/reaper/scourge you make the performance lack smaller but this doesnt buff harbinger one bit. Maybe add some kind of active sustain on harbinger to make it actually work in someway or even better give some clear disgn to make it excel at something with a designated weakness.

No. what im asking is. to trade Passive Sustain that the Core / Reaper Provides. to provide Active Sustain which the speccs lacking Shroud need access to.

Core and Reaper cant exist in the same world as Active sustain for necromancer on a Realistic Scale, because any active Sustain u give to harbinger unless Directly tied into harbinger (which would encourage more broken Mechanics to force things to work) im not saying Strip all its passive sustain. I.E I didnt say anything on its passive Damage reductions and more it currently has.

Just a Level of trade off to hand Necromancer the flexibility it needs to deal with the fact Anet are moving away from Shroud HP Bars with Scourge and Harbinger.

Edited by Daddy.8125
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28 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Based on experience, this is unrealistic.

Well, I'd say that you have the common point of view of someone that lack the background of the 9 year of necromancer balancing. To put it simply, the core tenets of the necromancer are these:

thats Anets problem for going back on necromancers Orginal Design not ours effectively. Dev problems are not Player problems.

The Dev team decided to remove Access to shroud HP bars for Scourge, Saw what happened were forced into hard nerfing Scourge Entirely out of SPVP Viability to prevent the problems assossiated with Support scourge. And then decided to Repeat the Same thing only this time reversing Scourges problem as Effectively a Hyper DPS With 0 Shroud and Degenerating Max HP Pool over time.

they handed a Specc.. built conceptually on having effectively a 20k Personal HP Buffer a 14k HP build, we are basically Weaver level of Squishyness with No Access to Active Sustain or Evades it launchs in that condition this Specc will be Something only usuable in Raids (I Say this. due to the exposed mechanics basically meaning Scourge is the Definte go to in a Fractal enviroment)

so Unless We're going to bow down and accept Harbinger being a Specc only used in 10 man Content potientally.... We have to argue for change somewhere. People screeched about the shroud hp Removal. Anet double downed and Deleted even more sustain the Elite Specc held.

granted we likely know the Outcome here.

Harbinger will be launched with 0 PvP / WvWvW Viability and Rot in a Raid only meta if its Damage is high enough til they get around to reworking it a few years later,

28 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Defense: The necromancer tank with it's HP and that's where things get ugly. In a high damage output environment this defensive philosophy isn't viable and that's what we had before Feb 2020 patch. On another hand, in a low damage environment this defensive philosophy can easily outshine the other defensive philosophy and that's why people cry about necromancer since Feb 2020 patch.

i dont rly hear many complaints on its conditions.. More its Sustain / Shroud HP bar and the "Mindlessness easy gameplay of Passive defenses". but we can also Say this isnt down to just low players not focusing problem.

Boyce, Blam and More high tier players have taken to seriously pushing for necromancer nerfs and some of these higher players have gone as far to state they think necromancers long term rein has had hand in shrinking the SPVP Playerbase.

so it'd seem Alot of people are unhappy at the feeling of playing against effectively a "hp wall" instead of Player interaction, which may lead further into a discussion on Is the Quantity of Passive Sustain necromancer has actually mechanically Fun to play with and against, or maybe something needs to overall change here to support healthier gameplay.

i would say maybe look at anothjer way to tackle this issue. but touching Shrouds DR would be a innate nerf to Core / Reapers Damage which may prove to be more problematic espically with Reaper with its already nerfs in place surrounding Life force compared to core.

I say this.. but we may just get a repeat of Past sights with other proffessions.

THey just hard nerf Core into inviability... Just overbundle stuff into Harbinger to deal with the problem and forever ignore the Core issues they create pushing for it ofcourse. but given the hints at shortly after EoD they intend to put some Significant changes in place to current elites and cores balancing... i'd Argue i cannot see Shroud being untouched..

its not uncommon for a MMORPG Company to nerf a over-popular proffession to spread the playerbase out and currently Necro and guardian are both candidates for such a thing even if we said either of these options were balanced.

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8 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Soul mark is strong in sPvP. You remove soul mark and barely anyone will ever use staff in sPvP,

 

This is objectively incorrect. All necros will continue using staff even if Soul Marks is deleted because there is no other option for that slot.

 

Core necro has 3 mainhands (axe, scepter, dagger) and 1 two handed weapon. (staff) Mainhand dagger is nonviable in all gamemodes so in practice necro only has 3 options for 2 weapon slots. Axe and Scepter are polar opposites the former is a pure power weapon and the latter is a pure condition weapon. As such there really isn't any reason to have both on a build. Thus the only sane weapon combinates are Axe/x + Staff for power builds and Scepter/x + Staff for condition builds. 

 

Now lets look at elites. Scourge is a given an offhand torch and comes in either condi dps or support flavors. Since torch is offhand only it doesn't compete with anything scourge is pigeonholed into scepter/x + staff for all gamemodes. Reaper is a given a Greatsword which *is* a viable alternative to staff, and you will periodically encounter Axe+GS Reapers is SPvP. (I am one of those.) Harbinger is given a MH pistol, however both pistol and scepter are 900 range pure condition weapons and as such are competing against each other rather than competing with staff.

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10 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

I think its kinda obscene how reaper with as much defense as it has can do the kind of quick burst which easily outdamages a zerker warr, like thats just insane. Why can't warr burst like that on zerker as  easy or more in PVP?  A reaper should be doing less dmg than a zerker warr is cause they are glassy and reaper is super tanky.

Wut? Warrior can oneshot everyone with just Arc Diviner in less that a second, Reaper can't.

Warrior Head Butt isn't an obvious skill that you can easily dodge, Reaper's Executioner's Scythe is.

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1 hour ago, Telgum.6071 said:

Wut? Warrior can oneshot everyone with just Arc Diviner in less that a second, Reaper can't.

Warrior Head Butt isn't an obvious skill that you can easily dodge, Reaper's Executioner's Scythe is.

The vid i saw of ajaxx playing zerker warr with i believe its hammer with side weapon of axe was bursting 5-8k with hammer or at least i think he said it was hammer? anyways Reaper can do that and more plus has way more sustain tankier lasts longer. If i was on my reaper ii could prob stay on point and be threatening longer than on a zerker warr which is glassier and literally is forced to leave point earlier and run because they can't keep the fight as long.

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21 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

The vid i saw of ajaxx playing zerker warr with i believe its hammer with side weapon of axe was bursting 5-8k with hammer or at least i think he said it was hammer? anyways Reaper can do that and more plus has way more sustain tankier lasts longer. If i was on my reaper ii could prob stay on point and be threatening longer than on a zerker warr which is glassier and literally is forced to leave point earlier and run because they can't keep the fight as long.

Hammer is purely a CC weapon on warrior, the fact that said weapon can deal up to 8k damage, which is half Hp of most classes says enough about Berserker damage. Meanwhile Arc Diviner is dealing 17k damage in less than a second. I never seen a Reaper reaching that number.

Warrior glassier? With two skills that allow you to ignore 100% of direct damage, with also a 3s block? Reaper tankiness comes from the shroud which is also its main damage source. So once the shroud is gone, so is most of Reaper damage, and the "tankiness". 

The only class that can "stand on point" is Scourge and barely, no one can really stand still on a place when there are +3 enemies focusing you. And if you are talking about 1v1 situations, standing on point as reaper is nonsense because you'll be kited and lose your shroud with no achievement.

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7 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

rf. What it need is to dissociate damage and support by:

  1. Removing the "manifest sand shade" proc from F2-F3-F4

Just going to point out that this kills 3 core traits from functioning with Scourge, one of which is a minor.  While Spite + Scourge have little synergy, Unyielding Blast and Dhuumfire become totally incompatible.

Recall that one of the biggest complaints about Harbinger is that it doesn't let any of the Fear traits function.

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2 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

The vid i saw of ajaxx playing zerker warr with i believe its hammer with side weapon of axe was bursting 5-8k with hammer or at least i think he said it was hammer? anyways Reaper can do that and more plus has way more sustain tankier lasts longer. If i was on my reaper ii could prob stay on point and be threatening longer than on a zerker warr which is glassier and literally is forced to leave point earlier and run because they can't keep the fight as long.

So ur comparing a Meta build v a Homemade Non-optimal build and basing it off of this.

1) the hammers Damage got pretty much gutted during the CC, its Bad even compared to other Warrior options.

2) Axes have never been great in SPVP.

its Dagger/Shield + Greatsword. which does ALOT more damage then that combo, Ajaxx tends to not play meta builds and although hes a good warrior hes not a good representation of potientals because of that realistically.... you cannot compare a Optimal build to a Sub optimal build realistically. if ur going to draw comparisons you have to realistically put them on fair grounds to begin with.

Ontop of this

Reapers "Sustain" has a Requirement to have previously built up a Bar of life force before engagement, Warriors Sustain does defintly not. Warriors have shorter CDs then reaper also,

U beleive a Reaper could Out-Sidenode a Warrior?... No it couldnt, thats just factually incorrect.. your Basically griefing your team to play Reaper in such a Position as Reaper is heavily dependent on a Support to be able to do well. atleast when in 2 capable players hands.

 

 

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Necros are fine. 
You just gotta consistently remove their ability to move and they are sitting pieces of meat, and Gw2 has plenty of troll builds that can just fart out tons of cripples, slows and immobs, not to mention hard CC straight up forcing them to sit down. 

Locking their mobility also prevents them from reliably hitting Lifeforce generating skills, which essentially kills the Necro because a good amount of their "sustain" and damage is tied directly to their Shroud. 

Edited by Yasai.3549
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9 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

So ur comparing a Meta build v a Homemade Non-optimal build and basing it off of this.

1) the hammers Damage got pretty much gutted during the CC, its Bad even compared to other Warrior options.

2) Axes have never been great in SPVP.

its Dagger/Shield + Greatsword. which does ALOT more damage then that combo, Ajaxx tends to not play meta builds and although hes a good warrior hes not a good representation of potientals because of that realistically.... you cannot compare a Optimal build to a Sub optimal build realistically. if ur going to draw comparisons you have to realistically put them on fair grounds to begin with.

Ontop of this

Reapers "Sustain" has a Requirement to have previously built up a Bar of life force before engagement, Warriors Sustain does defintly not. Warriors have shorter CDs then reaper also,

U beleive a Reaper could Out-Sidenode a Warrior?... No it couldnt, thats just factually incorrect.. your Basically griefing your team to play Reaper in such a Position as Reaper is heavily dependent on a Support to be able to do well. atleast when in 2 capable players hands.

 

 

 

I remember i think ajaxx saying that the dmg would be great on axe when you throw it when enemies are below 50% health because of dmg bonus orsomething. I know i've seen something like that in the video

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To be honest, it feels like other classes need nerfs more (guess we talking pvp)

I recently watched sindrener play, and there were very rarely 2 necros in a pvp match. But always 2 engis, 2 revs, 2 thieves...

 

And in lower levels of play (yes I played again even though I think spvp is a very bad Gamemode, because I need pots for my storage guild, but I'm not ranked yet. Last season I played was at the beginning of 2021 and got 1,5k points after the first 10 matches, so I think I'm not too bad :D) there were lots and lots of rangers (every single one of them playing entangle btw).

 

I don't think Necro is too strong. Yes it can do a lot of damage (I'm basically top dmg every game on my reaper) but if focused reaper dies very fast as well.

Core necros dmg is a Lot lower, but it's also a lot more tanks, and I didn't see anyone play scourge.

 

If you ask for lich nerfs sure, but I'd prefer a rework/ removal and add something new.

 

Even though lich has a lot of counterplay (line of sight, blinds, projectile blocks, blocks, fast movement,....) There's skills with a lot less counterplay.

Even though this example is kinda stupid:

Thief steal, instant 1200 range teleport that doesn't need line of sight and can do 4-5k dmg (if Autoattack is precast) while ripping boons or doing other stuff.

Or thief daggerstorm that can basically not be interupted.

Or rangers entangle that will pin you down for ages if you don't have enough damage or a condi cleanse that removes at least 2 conditions (most of the time even more is needed)

Or eles tornado that can Perma cc people.

Or engis grenade kit.

There are lots of skills that are in dire need of nerfs, not just lich.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Nimon.7840
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