nerf necro!

[Puck.3697]

On 2/1/2022 at 7:59 PM, trunks.5249 said:

there is no reason to change anything in pve. the OP is talking spvp

NGL. there is a reason to change PvE. but im very aware the OP is talking SPVP.

Games Popularity surrounding every game mode is dying.. so theres good reason for changes to be happening to alot of things realistically. I just think when we're talking Changes in larger masses (Which they've hinted they ar eintending) its likely we'll see some mechanical changes happening. espically if they're benefitting their new Elites Given thats what they'll now be trying to sell.

Harbinger from even a SPVP Point of view needs Active Utility given it loses all Passive Sustain necro normally has. so i could see them looking at Shrouds DR and Sustain at a Potiental nerf point if they want to give space for their Shroudless Speccs which both of their latest elites have been where active defensives would be needed.

[Fueki.4753]

10 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

As a necro you can literally be CCed to death, having double health bars isn't going to save you from being CC chained.

Literally any profession can be CC'd to death. This isn't unique to Necromancer.

[Salt Mode.3780]

46 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Literally any profession can be CC'd to death. This isn't unique to Necromancer.

Except you are forgetting that necro has little to no access to stability + limited mobility skills. 

[Dadnir.5038]

1 hour ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Except you are forgetting that necro has little to no access to stability + limited mobility skills. 

It would be more accurate to say that the necromancer have fewer tools to deal with hard CC than most other professions, tend to replace gap widener by fear and gap closer by pull. Which lead to a mobility and ability to cope with CCs perceived as "low".

What the "double health" compensate for is, mostly, the low amount of damages/effects avoidance (gap widener, block, evade and invuln) in it's skill kit (especially on the weapon skills kits). It also compensate for the fact that the necromancer often need to be more "aggressive" than most profession to gain sustain, making him relatvely weaker against kitting strategy.

[Salt Mode.3780]

Just now, Dadnir.5038 said:

It would be more accurate to say that the necromancer have fewer tools to deal with hard CC than most other professions, tend to replace gap widener by fear and gap closer by pull. Which lead to a mobility and ability to cope with CCs perceived as "low".

What the "double health" compensate for is, mostly, the low amount of damages/effects avoidance (gap widener, block, evade and invuln) in it's skill kit (especially on the weapon skills kits). It also compensate for the fact that the necromancer often need to be more "aggressive" than most profession to gain sustain, making him relatvely weaker against kitting strategy.

Literally doesn't matter how I word it, it doesnt make it any less true then whatever you just posted, but thank you for explaining in detail.

[Dadnir.5038]

3 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Literally doesn't matter how I word it, it doesnt make it any less true then whatever you just posted, but thank you for explaining in detail.

Based on how you worded it, the more simple minded would just have countered that the necromancer's mobility is high thanks to passive 25% mov speed, good swiftness output, spectral walk, wurm and shrd#2. While they would also counter by saying that you can slot 3 stun breaks on utility skills on top of lich form to face CC, which in there mind would be no less than what other professions can do reindering your arguments void.

Nerfs are often asked due to poor understanding of what the different professions can and cannot do. I've seen an elementalist main flamming the necromancer's ability to cleanse allies while, in fact, the elementalist can cleanse a lot more conditions over the same timeframe just due to a lack of detail in the wording.

[Salt Mode.3780]

17 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Based on how you worded it, the more simple minded would just have countered that the necromancer's mobility is high thanks to passive 25% mov speed, good swiftness output, spectral walk, wurm and shrd#2. While they would also counter by saying that you can slot 3 stun breaks on utility skills on top of lich form to face CC, which in there mind would be no less than what other professions can do reindering your arguments void.

Nerfs are often asked due to poor understanding of what the different professions can and cannot do. I've seen an elementalist main flamming the necromancer's ability to cleanse allies while, in fact, the elementalist can cleanse a lot more conditions over the same timeframe just due to a lack of detail in the wording.

Again nothing I said was anything lack understanding, first off I mentioned Stability which is the thing that prevents being chained CC, second I said mobility both are which are terms that a necro main would understand because they know what they have and what they are lacking. 

Of everything you listed literally Lich form is the ONLY thing that I would agree being on the "nerf" list and even then its an elite with long CD and should feel impactful at the end of the day. 

I don't think anything I have said was any less impactful then you "elaborating" on a thread full of necro mains that understands. 

25% movement speed passive is Signet of Locus or Traited Dagger which are both conditional. (Can be hindered by Slow, Chill, Root)

Spectral Walk is a stun break that has no form of stab gen which can still be CC chained (btw my argument to begin with.)

Wurm is a conditional mobility in which you need to PLACE a wurm which can be seen and killed by players and you will need to be within the range of. 

Shroud 2 on core requires a target which Reaper has a better version of but its only a whopping 600 range dash which can still be interrupted mid way.

Those mobility skills are neither instant and can be CCed throughout the whole way. 

Again lich form is an elite skill with a long cool down.

I guess I need to elaborate it for people like you so you can understand, my bad.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780

[Aeolus.3615]

On 2/9/2022 at 9:04 AM, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Except you are forgetting that necro has little to no access to stability + limited mobility skills. 

Edit: since copy pasta got borked up. did not went that well :)

Lack of stability is not a good excuse for Necros...  thats to much 2012-2014 excuse, should every revenant complain as we have no stability as well cause they are not taking jalis as option?

Every class has some sorta of option to have stability nowadays .

Reaper:    Infusing Terror ; "Chilled to the Bone!" ; (Trait: Blighter's Boon )

Core:   Well of Power ; Lich Form  ; Charge

Scourge:  Trail of Anguish ; (Trait: Feed from Corruption altough  with FfC need to corrupt it 1st)

 

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[The Boz.2038]

1 minute ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/4/43/Necromancer_tango_icon_20px.png  https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/3/3b/Charge_%28necromancer_skill%29.png/33px-Charge_%28necromancer_skill%29.png Charge
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/4/43/Necromancer_tango_icon_20px.png  https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/a/ab/Lich_Form.png/33px-Lich_Form.png Lich Form — Spectral
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/1/11/Reaper_tango_icon_20px.png  https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/0/05/%22Chilled_to_the_Bone%21%22.png/33px-%22Chilled_to_the_Bone%21%22.png "Chilled to the Bone!" — Shout

• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/4/43/Necromancer_tango_icon_20px.png  https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/b/b7/Well_of_Power.png/33px-Well_of_Power.png Well of Power — Well
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/0/06/Scourge_tango_icon_20px.png  https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/6/68/Trail_of_Anguish.png/33px-Trail_of_Anguish.png Trail of Anguish — Punishment
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/1/11/Reaper_tango_icon_20px.png  https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/d/db/Infusing_Terror.png/33px-Infusing_Terror.png Infusing Terror — Reaper's Shroud

Use your words, honey.

Also, did you honestly just say that the Flesh Golem, having stability during its charge, means necromancer has access to stability?

[Aeolus.3615]

Just now, The Boz.2038 said:

Use your words, honey.

Also, did you honestly just say that the Flesh Golem, having stability during its charge, means necromancer has access to stability?

Yeah im editing totally forgot that how we see the paste its not the same when saving :)

[The Boz.2038]

2 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Yeah im editing totally forgot that how we see the paste its not the same when saving 🙂

Yeah, see, "I copy pasted the 'stability' section off the wiki" doesn't cut it.

[LucianDK.8615]

Looks like the necro haters won

 

Necromancer

• Unholy Martyr: Reduced the number of conditions removed when exiting shroud from 3 to 2 in PvP only.
• Vampiric: Reduced base life-stealing damage from 41 to 29 in PvP only. Reduced base life-stealing healing from 39 to 26 in PvP only. Minion life-stealing has been adjusted to match the necromancer life-stealing in PvP only.
• Vampiric Presence: Reduced base life-stealing damage from 65 to 49 in PvP only. Reduced base life-stealing healing from 32 to 28 in PvP only. Reduced life-stealing bonus effectiveness while in shroud from 100% to 50% in PvP only.
• Lesser Enfeeble: Reduced weakness duration from 6 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP only.
• Summon Flesh Wurm: Increased cooldown from 32 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP only.
• Lich Form: Reduced the amount of life force granted when exiting the transformation from 15% to 5% in PvP only.
• Deathly Claws (Lich Form): Reduced power coefficient from 2.34 to 1.64 in PvP only.

Condition-based core necromancer is the most common variation, boasting a high playrate and winrate in both tournaments and ranked play. Reaper and minion builds are a bit less common in tournament play, but are still extremely effective in the ranked environment in almost every rating bracket. A common component in all these builds is the Blood Magic traitline. The life siphoning traits in particular generate a ton of value over the course of an extended fight, contributing to both outgoing pressure and self-sustain. Unholy Martyr getting a slight shave to its cleanse also reduces the amount of life force generation for the blood magic builds, which in combination with the siphon adjustments and other defensive shaves should give more chances to pressure enemy necromancers.

In addition to the Blood Magic adjustments, we’re making a few changes to further reduce necromancer survivability. Weakening Shroud will still provide a strong amount of weakness between its on-critical trigger and Lesser Enfeeble, but the latter coming down to 3 seconds should provide more opportunities to go aggressive in the cases where it can’t be avoided or cleansed. Flesh Wurm also gets a slight cooldown increase to bring it more in line with other necromancer stunbreaks.

Finally, Deathly Claws is getting a reduction in damage. While good counterplay options exist, it can be more difficult to capitalize on these as a team in a less coordinated environment like ranked. We feel that there’s room to tune Deathly Claws in a way that lich is still a threatening elite skill, while also giving players a bit more time to react when the counterplay isn’t immediate.

[Fueki.4753]

These changes are long overdue. But whether these are sufficient or still too little remains to be seen.

[Dadnir.5038]

9 hours ago, LucianDK.8615 said:

Looks like the necro haters won

The only really significant thing in these necro nerfs is the long overdue nerf to lich's AA coef. The other nerfs more or less miss the target and the one that will be impacted the most by those nerfs will be... Harbinger! (Hope you get some nice tweaks before coming out live harbinger buddy! Because you'll need them...)

[Bale.3851]

34 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

The only really significant thing in these necro nerfs is the long overdue nerf to lich's AA coef. The other nerfs more or less miss the target and the one that will be impacted the most by those nerfs will be... Harbinger! (Hope you get some nice tweaks before coming out live harbinger buddy! Because you'll need them...)

 

I agree. Sustain surely was the problem but its not the heal from blood. Its the dmg absorb of shroud witch harbinger lacks. So this is a double nerf. Now your only real choice is to play reaper or core which will still be 100 times better than harbinger. Why are these nerfs so short sigthed? Why not reduce the dmg absorb in shroud from 50% to 40% or heck even reduce max shroud hp. This nerfs hurt core and harbinger like wise.... what a let down...

 

AA nerf on lich 👍

[anbujackson.9564]

On 2/8/2022 at 1:49 PM, LucianDK.8615 said:

Regarding reaper tradeoff, we already got it. Losing access to Death Shroud, which Anet has pointed out on several ocasions.

Isnt that like saying that firebrands tradeoff is the loss of core virtues? 😕

Cant really call it a tradeoff if you get a superior version of it. The stronger effects are only weakened by the faster degen no? 

Otherwise primal bursts would be a tradeoff because you dont have normal bursts when in berserk mode... and so on.

Edited February 21, 2022 by anbujackson.9564

[LucianDK.8615]

1 hour ago, anbujackson.9564 said:

Isnt that like saying that firebrands tradeoff is the loss of core virtues? 😕

Cant really call it a tradeoff if you get a superior version of it. The stronger effects are only weakened by the faster degen no? 

Otherwise primal bursts would be a tradeoff because you dont have normal bursts when in berserk mode... and so on.

They gave revenants an ability an f2 ability that you lose when taking an espec.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, anbujackson.9564 said:

Isnt that like saying that firebrands tradeoff is the loss of core virtues? 😕

Cant really call it a tradeoff if you get a superior version of it. The stronger effects are only weakened by the faster degen no? 

Otherwise primal bursts would be a tradeoff because you dont have normal bursts when in berserk mode... and so on.

Shh they don't want to hear how they don't have a proper "tradeoff." Though to be fair Anet did put their foot in their mouth and considered DS -> RS as a fair trade off. The equivalent mind you for Berserker would have been lose of all core bursts, adrenaline capped at 10, but no Berserk Mode. But Primals got locked behind a mode, which in and of itself is a tradeoff, and just as valid of one as DS -> RS or Core Virtues -> DH Virtues/Tomes, but here we are with the "tradeoffs" being inequitably implemented and each of us bickering over it.

Necro nerfs in PvP were due. They're also due in WvW, but that won't happen until the summer balance.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

disgusting thread. necros get nerfed constantly, u guys just mainly have zero clue how they work and therefore will always lose to the simple base mechanics on it...

 

anet does their best to destroy their own game, the new specs are a disappointment and the balance is as bad as it has always been, becoming worse with each change.

 

like gj, gratulations to another round of based nerfs. surely the company hamster again used all of his braincells to work on them.

 

[jpsssss.7530]

Does anyone not know that a necro has to drop shroud to stunbreak? Do people even try to learn, or even google how to counter things anymore? Just stun a core necro, the either have to take it, or drop shroud and pray they still have a wurm lol.

[Nimon.7840]

The changes mainly affected harbinger and reaper.

Core not so much

[pcgamefreak.5208]

There are clearly some bad players in GW2, even 'tho' they're the ones on 'OP' classes.  There is nothing 'OP' about Necro, it's one of the worst classes in the game.  Today, I noticed core shroud doesn't last as long, not even close and condi damage is down.  So either something happened in updates or some "ArenaNet Baby" is having a swing at my account.

 

As for you bad players, just "CC" a Necro because whe have no real stability.  Reaper has a small amount in shroud from skill 2 I believe and Scourge has trail of angish err something like that.  Core has NONE!  That's the number one killer of core Necros in WvW!  You can just pull one to the ground and the forward pulls cause you to lay for 10 seconds...more than enough time to kill off any Necro.  Skills like that are "OP" and need to be removed from WvW, period!  All the "CC" and shared Boons is a huge part in why WvW plays so poorly pvp wise.

 

You can't even play healer support as a Necro Scourge in WvW because the "Devs" decreased the number of targets.  Really....  What was the purpose of that!?  That was a senseless, brain dead change/reduction that shouldn't have happened.

 

You know.... That's what happened to the Warrior class in World of Warcraft.  Bad players in pvp wanted an easy win against the class and like fools, the "Devs" gave it to them.  Know what happened?  The Warrior was "nerfed" so much, no one wanted that class in their dungeon or Raid groups and you got kicked!  The "Devs" basically made one of their own classes useless and a freaking joke and that's the same thing that's going to happen to the Necro class and when it does, I hope all those who favor that class as main just leave the game.  The developers should be trying to balance and remove some of the "CC" and shared Boons from modes like WvW, not tailoring to bad players needs.

 

I see classes in WvW walking around immune to all damage (I still can't find that ability on any class).  Can the Necro get that?  The thief can drop conditional damage every time they vanish, can the Necro get that?  Mesmers and Rangers don't even have to get close to get a kill, can the Necro get ranged condi DPS like that?

 

Please! .......  Other classes have it made compared to the slow, limited stability Necro class.  What's extra sad about it is the fact, specializations like curses and weapons like septer are designed for a Condi build.  Why give the Necro those things when you know conditions are cleansed so much and other classes have all these Boons to lower the condi damage to nothing?  You can clearly see the developers DO NOT know what they're doing!  They're contradicting their own works!  Ridiculous!

 

Well of Power has 1 second of stability....  For "Gawd" sakes, just delete Well of Power!  One second....  You call that stability...  ONE SECOND!!!!!  Toss in the fact Necro has too much cast time and you got yourself a real freaking treat here folks because Necro's own abilities kill them.  LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Necro needs to be "nerfed".....  Wow.......  How pathetic can you get.

 

Condi Necro builds in WvW are just support.  You can't kill anyone as Condi because condi builds don't exists.  Too much cleansing and resistance in the game now.  The "Devs" just get worst and worst with every new bad idea they put into the game and now it looks like core Necro shroud only last about as long as Reaper's.   So basically, you don't have much of a change now as a Necro in WvW because these power builds do too much damage per hit and as a Necro, you're weakest while not in shroud.

 

Way to go "Devs".....  Just delete the Necro class from the game now because you're well on your way to doing that.  I'll rather see it deleted than get kicked from a squad in WvW because the class became the World of Warcraft warrior.  By the way, that's one of the biggest reason why I stopped playing World of Warcraft.  I put too much work in my Warrior and the "Devs" just turned it into puppy chow.  That's  fine...  It stopped money from leaving my credit card too.  I was so happy to see players finally wake up and walk away from that horrible MMORPG.

 

Funny stating that 'tho' because....  GW2 has "WOW" beat in the horrible pvp department.

 

 

"Typos" suck,

 

Peace

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

ah! So this is the reason necro was literal kitten when I returned to the game last year...