Weakness

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

17 minutes ago, Shao.7236 said:

I disagree, there's much more that can come from Body Blow or Lighting Rod. Necromancer has about the same as Revenant while one has Lifeforce and the other has modifiers to sustain damage.

 

As a Warrior with Cull the Weak you can pratically apply permanent Weakness on low targets while kittenredevil Thief is also out there and they have lots of blind to top it off.

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 is right here, though.  Necros have about as many direct application sources as revenant, yes; but they also have a whole bunch of conversion skills that turn might into weakness, many of which they do not have to trait for. That puts them ahead in context. 

After that it's probably Thief, then Warrior, which has reasonable access as well. Though why anyone would take body blow over forceful is beyond me. 

Quote

Cull the Weak

Maybe I'll go play with this. slotting that does ruin a whole bunch of cooldowns for me but maybe there's something there. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 is right here, though.  Necros have about as many direct application sources as revenant, yes; but they also have a whole bunch of conversion skills that turn might into weakness, many of which they do not have to trait for. That puts them ahead in context. 

After that it's probably Thief, then Warrior, which has reasonable access as well. Though why anyone would take body blow over forceful is beyond me. 

Maybe I'll go play with this. slotting that does ruin a whole bunch of cooldowns for me but maybe there's something there. 

Body Blow is more useful than CTW in that you have better control of it, and doesn't require the target to be at a health threshold. After all if they meat that threshold your hitting then with Arcing Slice to down them, and which is more useful there in general?

 

[Shao.7236]

1 minute ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Body Blow is more useful than CTW in that you have better control of it, and doesn't require the target to be at a health threshold. After all if they meat that threshold your hitting then with Arcing Slice to down them, and which is more useful there in general?

 

I can see the compromises complains, like I said many times before most of the utility CD are just too kitten high to give up on things like GS3 lower CD as there is little option for Warrior to go on about exploring it's options.

[Crinn.7864]

14 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

And what? is it another "you main this class, so your opinion doesn't matters" lol, like if warrior is the only class that gen might and get corrupted to weakness.

 

Because whenever a "nerf weakness" thread shows up, it's always a warrior main that posted it. Every single time.

 

6 hours ago, Vinny.7260 said:

Weakness in and of itself isn't an issue.

The abundance of it is the issue.

We've got Core Necromancer with Weakening Shroud for 2.5s on Critical Hit (10s cool down). We've got the entering-shroud Weakness on a Lesser Enfeeble that inflicts 6s of weakness. Then we've got the Enfeebling Blood that inflicts 4s of Weakness.

Next we've got Valkyrie Ranger inflicting Weakness with Winter's Bite indirectly for 4s (pet has to land an attack.) Then you've got Clarion Bond casting Lesser Call of the Wild on pet swap to inflict 5s of PBAoE Weakness.

We've got Carrion Axe Mirage running Power Block that inflicts 3s of Weakness on any successful interrupt. Then you have Mirage Mirror inflicting 4s of Weakness in a PBAoE radius.

You've got Lightning Rod Weaver that inflicts 3s of Weakness on EVERY CC. Then you've got Superior Elements that inflicts 2s of it every 10s when landing a Dual Attack. You've also got Convergence that inflicts 3s of Weakness in a PBAoE every 6.5s.

You've got SA Daredevil that has Weakening Strikes, which means it can inflict Weakness after every dodge followed by an attack for 2s of Weakness. (I can't recall if it also removes the effect if the attack misses- but it might.)

You've got Power Herald that inflicts 2s of Weakness AoE on Elemental Blast. You've also got Power Renegade that inflicts 3s of Weakness on EVERY CC due to Dwarven Battle Training. Renegade can also inflict 1s of pulsing Weakness PBAoE on heal due to Planar Protection. They both also use Staff which has access to Mender's Rebuke which inflicts 3s on successful hit.

(SA Daredevil and Power Herald's access is arguably the most healthy out of all the specs mentioned above.)

3 of the specs there are the most common in the meta and they are actively holding a vice-grip on the games. (SA Daredevil, Core Necromancer, and Power Herald.)

I'm only mentioning META specs right now. Imagine if I went into all the other accesses.

Let's also mention corruption of Might. Might for ANY duration/intensity inflicts 5s of Weakness.

 

    With the exception of the rev stuff, all of those things you linked have been around since before the specialization update in 2014. This is not a balance problem. Throwing nerf requests at random stuff is not making sPvP any better.

 

9 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

Weakness itself is fine. It just became so cheap that its basicly omnipresent.
If you let an effect be this common and nerf its effect, you make it uninteresting. The same way I disliked how retaliations damage was nerfed instead of its duration back in the day, I wouldn't want weakness to become "weaker". Make it less present, turn it back into a tactical tool like it was 6+ years ago.

 

They literally halved the duration of weakness application on most skills in the feb. 2020 patch. If they make it anymore "tactical" it literally won't exist.

[Khalisto.5780]

WEAKNESS MAKES ME SICK

 

"centaur npc"

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

25 minutes ago, Crinn.7864 said:

 

Because whenever a "nerf weakness" thread shows up, it's always a warrior main that posted it. Every single time.

 

 

    With the exception of the rev stuff, all of those things you linked have been around since before the specialization update in 2014. This is not a balance problem. Throwing nerf requests at random stuff is not making sPvP any better.

 

 

They literally halved the duration of weakness application on most skills in the feb. 2020 patch. If they make it anymore "tactical" it literally won't exist.

You want to make it tactical?

Make it last 1s, 2s with 100% condition duration, and have it instead drain 25 endurance a second along with the 50% chance of a glancing blow during the duration.

[Crinn.7864]

5 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 is right here, though.  Necros have about as many direct application sources as revenant, yes; but they also have a whole bunch of conversion skills that turn might into weakness, many of which they do not have to trait for. That puts them ahead in context. 

 

This is a very odd time to be complaining about corrupts. Since the feb 2020 patch halved the amount of boon corrupts and the duration of boons, no necro even bothers building for corrupts.

Lets look at the modern necro builds:

Core condi necro: Has 2 corruption skills; Scepter 3 and Dagger 5. 1 boon apiece. Might have a double corrupt if they took path of corruption trait, however Terror seems to be more popular these days.

Scourge: Same as core.

Spectral Reaper. Axe 3 only. Single corrupt. 

 

The only class that is majorly affected by modern necro's corrupts is warrior as warrior exclusively produces might and has no cover boons, thus every single corrupt will hit the warrior's might. This is a warrior only problem. This is also why nerf weakness threads are exclusively written by warrior mains.

Edited January 11, 2022 by Crinn.7864

[Bazsi.2734]

12 hours ago, Crinn.7864 said:

They literally halved the duration of weakness application on most skills in the feb. 2020 patch. If they make it anymore "tactical" it literally won't exist.

- Lightning Rod: Reduced weakness duration from 4 seconds to 3 seconds.

- Superior Elements: Reduced weakness duration from 3 seconds to 2 seconds.

- Expert Examination: Reduced weakness duration from 4 seconds to 3 seconds.

- Chapter 2: Igniting Burst: Reduced weakness duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds. 
- Voice of Truth: Reduced vulnerability, blindness, and weakness durations from 8 seconds to 6 seconds. Reduced immobilize duration from 2 seconds to 1 second. Reduced power coefficient from 0.7 to 0.3.
etc....

Seems like they literally didn't. A 25-33% reduction occured on most skills. Anyway... so you're saying that we either have what we currently have to deal with(perma weakness in 2v2-s and up), or weakness doesn't exist. There is no inbetween.
Even though most necromancer builds can maintain weakness on you without using their booncorrupts, reducing it in any way would just make it all go away. Cool point dude.

Edited January 11, 2022 by Bazsi.2734

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

15 hours ago, Crinn.7864 said:

 

This is a very odd time to be complaining about corrupts. Since the feb 2020 patch halved the amount of boon corrupts and the duration of boons, no necro even bothers building for corrupts.

Lets look at the modern necro builds:

Core condi necro: Has 2 corruption skills; Scepter 3 and Dagger 5. 1 boon apiece. Might have a double corrupt if they took path of corruption trait, however Terror seems to be more popular these days.

Scourge: Same as core.

Spectral Reaper. Axe 3 only. Single corrupt. 

 

The only class that is majorly affected by modern necro's corrupts is warrior as warrior exclusively produces might and has no cover boons, thus every single corrupt will hit the warrior's might. This is a warrior only problem. This is also why nerf weakness threads are exclusively written by warrior mains.

I'm not even here looking to get weakness nerfed, at this point. I'm here looking for a rework/an adjustment to the lovely myriad of ways I am presented with one might stack so I can avoid the kitten corrupts in the first place. (눈_눈)

I'm just tired bro. I don't care who has weakness, I'd like to not be autocountered by that like I already am with blind, since war has literally no good condi options. 

Edited January 11, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Crinn.7864]

11 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I'm not even here looking to get weakness nerfed, at this point. I'm here looking for a rework/an adjustment to the lovely myriad of ways I am presented with one might stack so I can avoid the kitten corrupts in the first place. (눈_눈)

I'm just tired bro. I don't care who has weakness, I'd like to not be autocountered by that like I already am with blind, since war has literally no good condi options. 

 

I have for a long time been of the opinion that all boons and all conditions should be rebalanced to stack intensity not duration, and that boon-to-condition and condition-to-boon conversions should convert equivalent stack quantities. i.e. 3 might corrupts into 3 weakness wherein 1 stack of weakness equals 2% glancing and endurance redux.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Crinn.7864

[FarmBotXD.1430]

On 1/9/2022 at 1:18 PM, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

Apparently most people think it's perfectly fine, so I lost hope on garnering any support for changing it

most people also play necro, weird how that works huh?
We have investigated ourselves and found nothing wrong

[CutesySylveon.8290]

18 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I'm not even here looking to get weakness nerfed, at this point. I'm here looking for a rework/an adjustment to the lovely myriad of ways I am presented with one might stack so I can avoid the kitten corrupts in the first place. (눈_눈)

I'm just tired bro. I don't care who has weakness, I'd like to not be autocountered by that like I already am with blind, since war has literally no good condi options. 

But Azure, don't you know that warrior is just fine and that you need to git gud? A thief player said so.

[aelska.4609]

I do not know how people can defend weakness in its current form:

• Its rng-based
• Its everywhere
• Its insanely powerful: a berserker hit with 220% crit damage will deal BaseDamage*0.5 instead of BaseDamage*2.2, i.e., a 77% damage reduction. If you wanted this damage reduction in a "normal way", you would need to have 8400 toughness 😄

 

Just make it a flat damage reduction and it will already be more healthy.

[Zekent.3652]

On 1/12/2022 at 7:18 AM, aelska.4609 said:

I do not know how people can defend weakness in its current form:

• Its rng-based
• Its everywhere
• Its insanely powerful: a berserker hit with 220% crit damage will deal BaseDamage*0.5 instead of BaseDamage*2.2, i.e., a 77% damage reduction. If you wanted this damage reduction in a "normal way", you would need to have 8400 toughness 😄

 

Just make it a flat damage reduction and it will already be more healthy.

This, defending weakness and ignoring this is really delusional.

[Lighter.5631]

On 1/10/2022 at 3:40 PM, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Maybe I'll go play with this. slotting that does ruin a whole bunch of cooldowns for me but maybe there's something there. 

lol trust me i played with it since they changed it for pof release, there's nothing there with what warrior got.

weakness is basically that one condition that is specifically made to screw over warrior, as it is a lot less noticeable on other classes. you investing in weakness does very little and not as effective as you would think unless you fight another warrior

one reason is that other classes can disengage and reengage whenever..while warrior is the one that gets engaged on...so warrior has no choice but to fight with weakness

Edited May 2, 2022 by Lighter.5631

[DanAlcedo.3281]

On 1/10/2022 at 9:27 PM, Shao.7236 said:

I disagree, there's much more that can come from Body Blow or Lighting Rod. Necromancer has about the same as Revenant while one has Lifeforce and the other has modifiers to sustain damage.

 

As a Warrior with Cull the Weak you can pratically apply permanent Weakness on low targets while kittenredevil(apparently dare gets censored) Thief is also out there and they have lots of blind to top it off.

You have to reach pretty far into the "defend necro" barrel to pull out Cull the weak. 

Test:

Daredevil.