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Does anyone know the idea behind the Claim Ticket rewards structure?


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Hi all,

I've been doing WvW for quite a while and I never really thought about the way the claim tickets are rewarded ( I just play the mode because I enjoy it and never really cared). Recently, I got my last piece of legemdary armor that used my remaining tickets and soon after I decided to go for Conflux. I started researching it and realised that it will take another 6 weeks of capping the wvw rewards to get it. That is a pretty reasonable timegate for a legendary, but it got me thinking- why do the first chests reward barely any tickets?

Imagine a new player joining the mode and deciding to go for some of the rewards ( I know the mode is not created to farm rewards but still people like to work towards something). This player will be Wood rank, probably playing for an hour a day or so and I'm assuming that their world won't be first all of the time. If that is the case, at best this player will complete up to the gold chest and they will get around 150 tickets a week, meaning that if they want to go for Conflux the timegate for them would be around 15 weeks (assuming that they play every day, in reality it will be more). This would feel incredibly overwhelming and they will probably get discouraged and go play something else. Especially if they check the Pip calculator (https://gw2.limitlessfx.com/wvw/pips.php ) and realise that to cap the points each week they have to play the mode for 15-20 hours- that is like having a part time job lol.

Wouldn't it be way better if the ticket rewards from the chests are reversed? This way newer players will be incentivised to play the mode more and I don't think that a change like this will make any difference to the vereran players since the time required for them is cut basically in half and they are going to cap anyways.

I understand that the linear progression generally makes sense, but is it the best way to have it in this case? 

This is not a rant or anything like that, it just got me thinking and I want to see how the rest of the communty sees this.

Cheers!

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I myself am a wvw pleb... i started gw2 about 7 years ago to play ONLY and i mean ONLY wvw(i come from other MMO´s) . As a result i never made a legendary and i dont even know how... (i literally have 2 stacks of mystic clovers in my bank... pls halp :D ). So i can only guess.

 

I think you made some valuable points.

But maybe and i really think mayyybe they dont want you to get every fking legendary piece for free:D  MAYYYBE it is supposed to take a while....  but who knows. :P 

Again i can only speak for myself... but i am SWIMMING in wvw tickets... and so is anyone that actually enjoys this gamemode. If you want to have the wvw rewards you have to work for it or actually enjoy what your are doing. xD

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1 hour ago, Sahne.6950 said:

But maybe and i really think mayyybe they dont want you to get every fking legendary piece for free:D  MAYYYBE it is supposed to take a while....  but who knows. 😛

You don't get it for free, you can see the exact materials in here: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Conflux
You need a buttload of wvw materials and roughly 1700 gold to craft the ring. The tickets are the only thing that is timegated and prevent you from just buying everything of the trading post. 

It's the same thing for the legendary armor (you can check the materials here: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_armor ). If I remember correctly it's' about 600g a piece and to get the required tickets you need to cap the wvw reward chest for 22 weeks. 

Edited by Malice.5867
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It is just a timegated material. No need find any particular reason why its X amount of weeks or Y amount of hours, because players are never satisfied no matter how fast and easy it is. Just look at the whining over GoB for that.

Regarding it being a "job"... well that just depends on what you like. I havent done any fractals past like... the first 5 or 6 in level one. I havent done a single raid, so I'm at I-have-no-kittening-idea-what-I'm doing rank there. I havent even done sPvP for over a year. Can I get full legendary sets + trinkets tomorrow for both modes? Should I go to the general discussion and ask why I cant get it without *urk* doing *blergh* raids? Sorry I just puked a little there.

Because I certainly dont need the WvW stuff. Already have 3 sets and 25k worthless extra tickets or something by now.

Point is you're meant to play WvW for WvW. Not grind rewards. This isnt crappy PvE. If you got ascended (which is cheap in WvW, even chests drop like candy) then you can play with that a loooong time. Forever in fact. The templates even make carrying multiple sets far easier than it used to. Legendaries is a bonus deluxe item.

Edited by Dawdler.8521
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9 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

It is just a timegated material. No need find any particular reason why its X amount of weeks or Y amount of hours, because players are never satisfied no matter how fast and easy it is. Just look at the whining over GoB for that.

Regarding it being a "job"... well that just depends on what you like. I havent done any fractals past like... the first 5 or 6 in level one. I havent done a single raid, so I'm at I-have-no-kittening-idea-what-I'm doing rank there. I havent even done sPvP for over a year. Can I get full legendary sets + trinkets tomorrow for both modes? Should I go to the general discussion and ask why I cant get it without *urk* doing *blergh* raids? Sorry I just puked a little there.

Because I certainly dont need the WvW stuff. Already have 3 sets and 25k worthless extra tickets or something by now.

Point is you're meant to play WvW for WvW. Not grind rewards. This isnt crappy PvE. If you got ascended (which is cheap in WvW, even chests drop like candy) then you can play with that a loooong time. Forever in fact. The templates even make carrying multiple sets far easier than it used to. Legendaries is a bonus deluxe item.

You are absolutely right- people will never be happy and will find something to complain about. I don't want anyone getting free stuff nor I believe that wvw should be the fastest and most efficient way of obtaining legedary gear. However, making it a tiny bit better for new players might attract more people into joining wvw and some of them might actually stay past the rewards.  Cutting a 15 week timegate to 10 could be huge for some players (still the ones that want to go all the way are going to get the required tickets in 6 weeks)

As an experienced casual player I decided to join a newbie guild so I can help others get into the game and the main thing I'm noticing is that over 90% of these players avoid sPvP and WvW like the plague. I'm assuming that this is the general new player experience, not just the people I'm interacting with and I don't think that this is very good for the longevity of the game. 

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16 minutes ago, Malice.5867 said:

 However, making it a tiny bit better for new players might attract more people into joining wvw and some of them might actually stay past the rewards.  Cutting a 15 week timegate to 10 could be huge for some players (still the ones that want to go all the way are going to get the required tickets in 6 weeks)

Keep in mind that Anet *did* do this a month or something ago to help. Bonus pips to low ranks, + extra pips for everyone. Probably a 20% increase maybe, depends on your rank. The cap isnt increased so the time to get there (ie how much you need to play every week to reach cap) has been significantly reduced. You still need those weeks but hey... someone will always think its too much, as mentioned 😉

Even for a little higher ranks... I got around 2800 pips last week and I didnt even think I played that much 😞

Edited by Dawdler.8521
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2 hours ago, Malice.5867 said:

Wouldn't it be way better if the ticket rewards from the chests are reversed?

So reward players who don’t contribute a lot to the game mode and give less and less the more you play the gamemode? Not sure I agree with that one.

 

If you want legendary rewards then people should be expecting to spend some time getting certain materials.

 

35 minutes ago, Malice.5867 said:

I'm assuming that this is the general new player experience, not just the people I'm interacting with and I don't think that this is very good for the longevity of the game. 

WvW shouldn’t be known as a reward farm, Do I believe WvW should give better rewards ? Absolutley. Do I think increasing rewards too much would be a bad thing ? Absolutley, it would incentivize more afk cap camp/sentry then afk in spawn and repeat gameplay for PvErs.

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3 hours ago, Malice.5867 said:

Wouldn't it be way better if the ticket rewards from the chests are reversed? This way newer players will be incentivised to play the mode more and I don't think that a change like this will make any difference to the vereran players since the time required for them is cut basically in half and they are going to cap anyways.

 

Reverting the tickets rewards also incentivizes players to stop playing the mode earlier. Have you experienced WvW when no one shows up to the fight?

 

This mode is dependent on continuous player engagement. Alliances and a huge rework in grouping up players is being done just to achieve better spread of player hours spent on the mode. It makes absolute sense to design the rewards in a complimentary way.

 

The only argument which could be made is that tickets per hour should remain similar or closer as to not penalize players who are time starved or necessitate extended commitment per week. Which is again only an issue to newer players and players who have little time, thus we are back to square one: this mode is dependent on player engagement. Reward design is reflective of this.

Edited by Cyninja.2954
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The reward structure is behind the times in terms of the GW2 economy and also the costs of obtaining rewards with tickets vs earning them in other areas of the game. I have lots of tickets but to spend them I also need memories of battle, a stack of which last I checked is around 40-50g, and for armour grandmaster marks in addition. So I can use my tickets but there is an opportunity cost in doing so. 
 

Unless you want the legendary precursor armour it’s often more cost-effective to craft armour or weapons directly and ignore the tickets altogether. A similar issue affects mistborn trinkets vs winterberry or bloodstone farms. 

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41 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

Reverting the tickets rewards also incentivizes players to stop playing the mode earlier. 

I'm not sure that I agree. The people that like and play WvW do it primarily for fun. The vast majority of WvW players play it almost exlusively (not everyone ofc, but this is the main mode of the game they play). They are high ranks and already have most of the rewards they can possibly get. I've never gotten the last chest and think to myself  "whelp, now there is no point to play anymore".

So the core WvW players will play and cap the rewards no matter how they are structured, the afk pip farmers will always do the same because it takes no effort to do it. And this leaves only the new players affected by a change like this. (and this is not even a recommendation to change it, just wanting to see how other players feel about the current structure). 

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4 hours ago, Malice.5867 said:

I understand that the linear progression generally makes sense, but is it the best way to have it in this case? 

This is not a rant or anything like that, it just got me thinking and I want to see how the rest of the community sees this.

The problem is, that it is not a true linear progression (where the same time spent, results in the same reward given or x=y).

It is true, that a certain time spent at the end of the match-up week is worth more in terms of rewards, than time spent at the start of the week. At the end of the week, you will have reached a higher value skirmish chest, that drops more tickets.
e.g. first 105 pips (finishing the Wood chest with 3 intermediary + the Wooden chest + a little bit extra pip) will reward you 17 tickets, the last 105 pips (finishing the last intermediary and Diamond chest) will give you 34 tickets. That is x=2y or double the reward. While on its own, this could be OK (because you are rewarded better for playing that game more longer during the week), it is not OK, because you don't have that kind of progression in e.g. a PvE mode like Strikes, Fractals or open world. You don't get double the rewards (e.g. gold, reward bags, fractal relics etc.) for the same 5 minute strike mission on a Friday compared to a Saturday. In the case of strikes, you even get rewarded for the first three priority strikes (so it is the opposite to what is happening with the skirmish reward track).
You could even out the skirmish tickets across the chests (instant reward track potions, Memories and Mystic Coins still get better with better chests) and I think it would be a good idea to do so (and it definitely would not be "giving people easy tickets").

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25 minutes ago, Malice.5867 said:

I'm not sure that I agree. The people that like and play WvW do it primarily for fun. The vast majority of WvW players play it almost exlusively (not everyone ofc, but this is the main mode of the game they play). They are high ranks and already have most of the rewards they can possibly get. I've never gotten the last chest and think to myself  "whelp, now there is no point to play anymore".

This isn't about players who spend more than enough time on the mode. The reward structure is irrelevant here.

 

Front-loading time gated rewards does just that: it discourages players who are there only for those rewards to stay because it becomes more time efficient to only go for the initial high yield rewards, unlike now.

 

25 minutes ago, Malice.5867 said:

So the core WvW players will play and cap the rewards no matter how they are structured, the afk pip farmers will always do the same because it takes no effort to do it.

Have you spent 20 hours semi afk pip farming? Do so before assuming it takes no effort. In fact it takes a ton of effort in form of not going insane.

 

25 minutes ago, Malice.5867 said:

And this leaves only the new players affected by a change like this. (and this is not even a recommendation to change it, just wanting to see how other players feel about the current structure). 

 

No, it leaves players who are primarily concerned with the rewards affected. New players are welcome and encouraged to join and play the mode to their hearts content. As time passes, those new players who care about fun first and rewards second will become veterans, and as already agreed: continue to not care about the rewards (at least tickets).

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7 minutes ago, Gorani.7205 said:

it is not OK, because you don't have that kind of progression in e.g. a PvE mode like Strikes, Fractals or open world. You don't get double the rewards (e.g. gold, reward bags, fractal relics etc.) for the same 5 minute strike mission on a Friday compared to a Saturday.

 

 

Fractal God literally nearly doubles the gold gain per day. Not to mention the reward per fractal which are NOT daily.

In other content, experience and/or efficiency dictates reward, since better players finish content faster. I get a lot more gold/hour in my full clear raid static than some less experienced players.

Which thus begs the question:

Should WvW rewards be made skill and performance dependent? Aka higher performance/skill yields higher reward and vice versa.

Not sure all players would want to answer this with a yes, if they are honest with themselves.

 

That's just it: WvW rewards are NOT in any way performance related besides time spent (with minimal effort). That counts for something too, especially in light of how many players would rather get their legendary rewards from this mode instead of the alternatives, one of which can be significantly faster IF players put in some effort (raids) and another is far less time consuming (while being more time locked, aka spvp).

Edited by Cyninja.2954
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2 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Fractal God literally nearly doubles the gold gain per day. Not to mention the reward per fractal which are NOT daily.

Fractal God is not connected to the time spent in the game mode, but to an additional investment in the Account Augmentation (which is not a feature for WvW, although it could be e.g. for Karma). I made a time/rewards comparison, just wanted to set that thing straight. 😉

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1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Personally, I want the rewards on the last diamond chest to also be the rewards in the repeatable chest. I might actually care about how many times I clear Diamond then.

I'm sure that a lot of the veteran players (including myself) would love that. However, the idea is that the first rewards are not lucrative enough to attract new blood to the mode. The new players will never make it to diamond in the first place.

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7 minutes ago, Malice.5867 said:

I'm sure that a lot of the veteran players (including myself) would love that. However, the idea is that the first rewards are not lucrative enough to attract new blood to the mode. The new players will never make it to diamond in the first place.

I am not against both things happening.

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8 hours ago, Malice.5867 said:

Wouldn't it be way better if the ticket rewards from the chests are reversed? This way newer players will be incentivised to play the mode more and I don't think that a change like this will make any difference to the vereran players since the time required for them is cut basically in half and they are going to cap anyways.

I understand that the linear progression generally makes sense, but is it the best way to have it in this case? 

This is not a rant or anything like that, it just got me thinking and I want to see how the rest of the communty sees this.

Cheers!

 

Don't think I've seen them explain why the tickets were back loaded in the skirmish chest ranks instead of being evenly placed, and the player rank (which gets you more permanent pips per tick), being the main factor that determines the pace you earn them, something veterans had the advantage of on day one of the skirmish reward implementation. Also to note, if I remember right the initial weekly total was only like 175, and then they increased it to 365, imagine the pacing they wanted to set in the first place with the ascended gear.

 

6 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

If you got ascended (which is cheap in WvW, even chests drop like candy)

 

I dunno what voodoo you've been doing with your magic find, but I'm lucky if I even get 1 ascended to drop a month, in fact lately I've been wondering if they nerfed the drop rate of ascended in wvw.

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The fact that this thread is about skirmish tickets is quite telling.

If you were saying memories of battle need more sources such as daily chests (which would increase daily engagement) , getting rid of grandmaster mark shards and replacing them with grandmaster marks, or a use for emblems then maybe you would have a point. Skirmish tickets are gated weekly such that people don't just play for a week and then leave (see gift of battle) because they don't actually intend to stay in the mode and are just there for rewards.

The only thing that is arguably wrong with skirmish tickets is the linearity of the tickets could be improved. i.e. if you do half the full diamond 6 effort you should get half the total 365 max tickets , which is 183 and currently past the gold skirmish chest.

TL;DR in response to your question "Wouldn't it be way better if the ticket rewards from the chests are reversed?":

No

---

Also while Gorani is correct in that it is not true linear progression it is quite close unless you are counting wood or bronze skirmish chest which can be attained very easily.
Wood = 0.147 * pips
Bronze = 0.177 * pips
Silver =  0.198 * pips
Gold = 0.214 * pips
Platinum = 0.228 * pips
Mithril = 0.240 * pips
Diamond = 0.248 * pips

I wouldn't be opposed to flattening this but unless you are getting to merely bronze/silver it is less of an issue than people make it out to be.
 

4 hours ago, Gorani.7205 said:

The problem is, that it is not a true linear progression (where the same time spent, results in the same reward given or x=y).

It is true, that a certain time spent at the end of the match-up week is worth more in terms of rewards, than time spent at the start of the week. At the end of the week, you will have reached a higher value skirmish chest, that drops more tickets.
e.g. first 105 pips (finishing the Wood chest with 3 intermediary + the Wooden chest + a little bit extra pip) will reward you 17 tickets, the last 105 pips (finishing the last intermediary and Diamond chest) will give you 34 tickets. That is x=2y or double the reward. While on its own, this could be OK (because you are rewarded better for playing that game more longer during the week), it is not OK, because you don't have that kind of progression in e.g. a PvE mode like Strikes, Fractals or open world. You don't get double the rewards (e.g. gold, reward bags, fractal relics etc.) for the same 5 minute strike mission on a Friday compared to a Saturday. In the case of strikes, you even get rewarded for the first three priority strikes (so it is the opposite to what is happening with the skirmish reward track).
You could even out the skirmish tickets across the chests (instant reward track potions, Memories and Mystic Coins still get better with better chests) and I think it would be a good idea to do so (and it definitely would not be "giving people easy tickets").

Edited by Infusion.7149
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4 hours ago, Gorani.7205 said:

it is not OK, because you don't have that kind of progression in e.g. a PvE mode like Strikes, Fractals or open world.

 

I think WvW ranks and pip gain are best compared to Account Bonuses (Gold Find, Karma Gain, XP Gain, Magic Find).  Since Account Bonuses are tied to achievement points and login rewards it can take a very long time for a new player to increase these.

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Think the easiest solution would be so that people could trade in Emblems of the Avenger for 50 tickets each (limit of 3 per week).  Make it so you can turn in 1 more if your server won last week. That way you can play WvW and still make progress regardless of your schedule.

Emblems of the Conqueror could be sold for a special wxp booster that stacks on top of the other boosters. It'd also give you +1 pip.

Or make Embelms be consumable and have the same effect as daily potions to reward tracks (no, this isn't really related to the topic)

I'd also triple the Mark shards given.

A final off the wall suggestion: the last  Gold and Diamond chests should contain a chance to have a box that lets you pick  a WvW precursor (non-sublime) armor or some mystic coins if you don't want legendaries.

 

Edited by ArchonWing.9480
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31 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Think the easiest solution would be so that people could trade in Emblems of the Avenger for 50 tickets each (limit of 3 per week).  Make it so you can turn in 1 more if your server won last week. That way you can play WvW and still make progress regardless of your schedule.

Emblems of the Conqueror could be sold for a special wxp booster that stacks on top of the other boosters. It'd also give you +1 pip.

Or make Embelms be consumable and have the same effect as daily potions to reward tracks (no, this isn't really related to the topic)

I'd also triple the Mark shards given.

A final off the wall suggestion: the last  Gold and Diamond chests should contain a chance to have a box that lets you pick  a WvW precursor (non-sublime) armor or some mystic coins if you don't want legendaries.

 

Emblems for skirmish tickets is not a great idea because people in WVW exclusively for skirmish tickets will complain that people in larger squads get more tickets. Therefore the WXP booster idea would be far more effective and likely.

I don't know why anyone would want grandmaster marks shards instead of marks. It's additional gating for no reason and it's an antiquated currency given the only reason to make the ascended WVW armors now is for the skin or legendary upgrade.

I'm also against adding any RNG to WvW precursors.

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15 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

I wouldn't be opposed to flattening this but unless you are getting to merely bronze/silver it is less of an issue than people make it out to be.

Agreed, I should've suggested flattening instead of completely reversing the rewards so people would get a better idea of what I mean by my post instead of thinking that I want a system that promotes less gameplay or gives free things to the new players.

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3 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Emblems for skirmish tickets is not a great idea because people in WVW exclusively for skirmish tickets will complain that people in larger squads get more tickets. Therefore the WXP booster idea would be far more effective and likely.

Well that's why I suggested there be a limit per week so it'll even out over time. If you get 1000 kills, it'd be the same if you get 300 kills. I suppose you can argue that the large squad will still get them faster, but that will apply to anything.

If that's not good enough, it could just be restricted to 1/week. Although I really don't care what people that are here just for tickets really think.

 

Quote


I don't know why anyone would want grandmaster marks shards instead of marks. It's additional gating for no reason and it's an antiquated currency given the only reason to make the ascended WVW armors now is for the skin or legendary upgrade.

I'm also against adding any RNG to WvW precursors.

I don't really care either way (I delete them); am fine with just making them plain old marks. Currently you get 3/10 of a mark per week, I suggested bringing it to 9/10. But 1-2 marks is also fine.

I think having an ascended chest possible would be nice (doesn't have to be a precursor)

Edited by ArchonWing.9480
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