So let me get this straight [Merged]

[Dragontamer.9546]

So I have to buy the living stories just tp play them? I get it the price of the game content is 200 diamonds but still why do I buy any game Content after buying the game ?  They should just do what most games do and do  monthly fee MMorpgs are just a money sink. we all know this but it is getting to the point were you just are big money of you have to tack a loan out on your house just to play the game . I know if I Don't like it then don't play it yup I got it No need to say it .One more thing this game could do it if you are a new account you should get living story 2 for free. 

[rrusse.7058]

There is a certain point that yes,  Living World Episodes should just be tacked on and added for free as it is leaving a segment of the playerbase cut off from certain maps and their content. The last thing any game should really want is to segment their playerbase more and more and leave players in a situation where one might have episodes  1 and 3 and missing 2 or 4. This player has season 3 but not 2.

Then again new players today are able to purchase Path of Fire and Heart of Thorns as a set where as I bought them as two sepparate games. Am I upset about that? No. I enjoyed my time in each expansion and still do to this day do. The last thing I would want is to gatekeep newer players from playing the same content as me simply because I bought it earlier than another and said "I guess this is the price I'll pay..."

Last point is that you can convert gold to Gems to purchase any episodes you are missing. Granted as a newer player, making gold might be a little harder than a vetran or someone will multiple accounts. Once you get the ball rolling however it becomes much easier to get the gold you need and spend it on what you like and want the most. That point is specific to Living World Episodes too as you can just buy them with Gems and never have to get your card out even once to get them.

Edited January 13, 2022 by rrusse.7058

[Linken.6345]

Yea a montly fee would have meant more money spent on the game over 9 years so hard pass from me.

[Randulf.7614]

Sub games still charge for expansions and Seasons are just episodic expansions with less features, but often more maps. GW2s model is cheaper n the long run, esp if you login during the initial release and get them for free

Edited January 13, 2022 by Randulf.7614

[Tukaram.8256]

When released, the living world chapters unlocked if you were logging in.  So they were free, but those of us playing at the time paid full price for the expansions.  Now the expansions are at a huge discount, and you can pay for the living world if you choose to.  Think of them as optional DLC.   I do not play them, so I would not pay for them.  I have no interest in a monthly fee.  Been there, done that, for far too many years. 😎

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

1 hour ago, Dragontamer.9546 said:

So I have to buy the living stories just tp play them? I get it the price of the game content is 200 diamonds but still why do I buy any game Content after buying the game ?  They should just do what most games do and do  monthly fee MMorpgs are just a money sink. we all know this but it is getting to the point were you just are big money of you have to tack a loan out on your house just to play the game . I know if I Don't like it then don't play it yup I got it No need to say it .One more thing this game could do it if you are a new account you should get living story 2 for free. 

Fond of monthly subscriptions/fees?  Use it to purchase a Living World Season each month.  Voila, problem solved! 

[firedragon.8953]

I see this complaint often.

Anet should just bundle all pre-PoF LW seasons with a Hot/PoF expansion purchase, increasing it's price to like $60 or something. They should bundle all Post PoF LW seasons with EoD at an increased price. Eventually they should sell an actual "New Player Complete Package" EoD bundle for like $120 or whatever that includes all playable content.

I don't think actual cost is as much of an issue as much as transparency as to real cost of the game, and the annoyance of then having to make a separate purchase of gems to access all game content/story. Somehow I think the higher price tag will make less people pissed off than feeling like they were "tricked" about how much it costs.

Not to mention, pricing can then be adjusted proportionally for older, and debatably "out-dated" living world content.
Keep them unlockable with gems and offer the free episodes as "loyalty program" (current system) for players who are active during releases.

[Fleo.7324]

Living world seasons cost like what, 15 euro each? It's money for game content, what's wrong with that? And there's a fair amount of it. This is way better than a monthly fee, you pay for it once and you have it forever. Besides, you know... you don't HAVE to buy everything at once.

If you've been playing actively you'd have all the living world content for free, isn't it?

"Episodes can be unlocked for free by logging into the game at any time during the episode's original release window. Generally, this window runs from the date of the release of an episode until the release of the following episode."

I hadn't played the game for years, just logged in from time to time, and I had some episodes ulocked, ended up paying like 10 euro for each season. I live in one of the poorest european countries and it doesn't seem expensive to me. Doesn't cost more than a dinner, or a movie with my gf.

As to why they're not included when you buy something like the expansions bundle, I don't know, I'd like there at least to be an option for a whole bundle, instead of buying thins separately.

Edited January 13, 2022 by Fleo.7324

[Tukaram.8256]

2 hours ago, firedragon.8953 said:

Anet should just bundle all pre-PoF LW seasons with a Hot/PoF expansion purchase, increasing it's price to like $60 or something. They should bundle all Post PoF LW seasons with EoD at an increased price. Eventually they should sell an actual "New Player Complete Package" EoD bundle for like $120 or whatever that includes all playable content.

That is a great idea.  All the time we see post from people who bought expansions and are upset about the addon content.  Just offer a package with it.  😎

[rrusse.7058]

4 hours ago, Tukaram.8256 said:

That is a great idea.  All the time we see post from people who bought expansions and are upset about the addon content.  Just offer a package with it.  

I like the sound of that idea as well. They could for example sell two versions of the HoT and PoF package.

Expansions Only Ver.: $29.99 USD, Contains the expansions Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns and Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire.

Expansion and Living World Set: Contains Living World Seasons 2, Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns, Living World Season 3, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire and Living World Season 4. I can't comment on what an appropriate pricing would be, but I imagine they could find a reasonable price.

Finally an Ultimate Edition that contains everything, all LW seasons, HoT, PoF and Icebrood Saga. Eventually the umbrella of an Ultimate Edition could be expanded to include End of Dragons  and Living World Season 5. Where as just expansion versions are HoT, PoF and EoD only.

 

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

FYI:  The Icebrood Saga is Living World Season 5.

[Gibson.4036]

They really should dump all the useless boosts and random identity repair kits and skins they cram into the premium editions, and just make those editions "includes prior living story!" Not only would it make for a straightforward way to make sure you got all the content, it'd be a really clear signal that you aren't getting it if you buy the base version.

[voltaicbore.8012]

1 hour ago, Gibson.4036 said:

They really should dump all the useless boosts and random identity repair kits and skins they cram into the premium editions, and just make those editions "includes prior living story!" Not only would it make for a straightforward way to make sure you got all the content, it'd be a really clear signal that you aren't getting it if you buy the base version.

This, and @firedragon.8953's idea are definitely something I feel ANet needs to look into.

I think LW is worth the price, and I think many players agree. However, it just feels awful to

1. not really be accurately informed about LW and how it fits into the game,
2. not be given a chance to buy them (aside from LWS2) up front, and
3. then be sold a $100 "Ultimate" edition that doesn't even give you the full story because of main story being put into LW.

It's a matter of how it's (not) sold.

Of course it probably would have been better if LW was truly just side stories, but that ship has loooong sailed. As such, we're stuck with mainline story locked behind optional content that isn't marketed properly. I've said it before and I'll say it every time I get the chance - this whole LW sales thing needs to get addressed if ANet ever hopes to get some sort of Steam launch going.

Edited January 13, 2022 by voltaicbore.8012

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

Living World Season 2 = 1,280 GEMS
Living World Season 3 = 960 GEMS
Living World Season 4 = 960 GEMS
Living World Season 5 = 960 GEMS
-------------------------------------------------------
                     Total costs = 4,160 GEMS

Looking for EU
The cheapest bundle (core + HoT + PoF + EoD) you can get for 49,99 €. The Ultimate Bundle comes with 4,000 GEMS + many unlocks for a price of 99,99 €. If you want 4,000 GEMS with the cheap version, you have to pay 50 €.

Summary: GW2 Core + HoT + PoF + EoD + LW 2-5 costs you ~ 100 €. 

Wait, what about those 160 GEMS? Not worth to go for them with real money exchange. You make that gold on the way. Making gold is part of the game. The gold => GEMS exchange is great for such a low quantity. 

The only difference: LW is not auto-unlocked. The deicision is yours. If you want to spend the GEMS for something else, you are free to do so. You can farm gold ingame, exchange it for GEMS and unlock the entire LW with farming if you want to. 
-
"Veterans got the entire Living World for free!"

How much do you think did we have to pay so far?
Core GW2 game (cheap) costed around 50 €, Heart of Thorns was ~ 45 €, Path of Fire ~ 30 €. 
-
AND we have spent 9+ years playing this MMORPG. We have been beta testing balancing the game to its current state. Had to deal with multiple issues (e. g. rollbacks) and watched the game progress and refine. The version you are playing today is way different from what we used to play. The difficulty changed a lot. Making money, gear acquisition, unlocks were never as easy as they are today. 

We may not have payed money for the LW, but I would not go as far and claim we have gotten it for free. 
-
 

14 hours ago, Dragontamer.9546 said:

They should just do what most games do and do  monthly fee MMorpgs are just a money sink.

WoW = 10,99 € / month
TESO = 11,67 € / month
FF14 = 12,99 € /month

With the numbers above, that is a straight NO! I played for ~ 9 years. 9x12 = 108 months. 

Even if the subscription fee would be 1 € / month, it would still be an absolutely horrible idea. 
-
I get your frustration. The game is quite confusing nowadays, especially when you are new. It would be much easier for you, if the expansions included the LW.

As I have tried to explain above, the Ultimate version basically comes with the full LW. Only thing you have to do is resisting the temptations of the gemstore and only purchase the LW unlocks. 

[voltaicbore.8012]

18 hours ago, HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:

As I have tried to explain above, the Ultimate version basically comes with the full LW. Only thing you have to do is resisting the temptations of the gemstore and only purchase the LW unlocks. 

I've said this elsewhere, yes, it only leaves you 160 gems short, which is not hard to convert from gold. Any veteran player can do that with ease, but new players will have to figure out a few things before that happens.

"Resisting the temptation" is exactly the sales problem here - ANet doesn't tell new players who buy the Ultimate bundle what LW is, how much it costs in gems, and that the 4K gems included in the bundle are probably best used there. Even if they made 0 other changes and only included that kind of information, I'd say that's enough. But as it stands, ANet needs to inform people better, or just start charging more for the "complete" versions of the game.

Edited January 14, 2022 by voltaicbore.8012

[mythical.6315]

22 hours ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

Any veteran player can do that with ease, but new players will have to figure out a few things before that happens.

They can hold off on buying LS5 as they don’t needed everything unlocked on day 1. By the time they get to it, they should have enough gold to exchange for the remaining gems. 

[SleepyCatz.1432]

On 1/13/2022 at 6:50 AM, Dragontamer.9546 said:

So I have to buy the living stories just tp play them? I get it the price of the game content is 200 diamonds but still why do I buy any game Content after buying the game ?  They should just do what most games do and do  monthly fee MMorpgs are just a money sink. we all know this but it is getting to the point were you just are big money of you have to tack a loan out on your house just to play the game . I know if I Don't like it then don't play it yup I got it No need to say it .One more thing this game could do it if you are a new account you should get living story 2 for free. 

First of all, we have already had two times "Return to..." which where timed windows where you could get LW episode for free from just log in and get an email (which unlocked that episode). Last episode ended now in December with Champion (IBS - LW Season 5).

In other words if you wait long enough it will probably be possible to get all LW season for free as it very likely that ANet will run a new "Return to..." when they will release next LW season after EoD have been out for some time. With that in mind I don't think there is any need to change how LW season works as players can buy or use Gold to Gem during that time for parts they need like unlocking of Skyscale or to be able to farm Unbound Magic (you only need one episode to get access to map and that currency).

As far as this discussion is going too much focus is put on money aspect without even talking about that this business model also exist to prevent new players to rush too fast through all existing content and end up bored that there is nothing else to do when they get to last story episode in this game.
 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Living_World_Return#Claiming

[Ashantara.8731]

24 minutes ago, SleepyCatz.1432 said:

First of all, we have already had two times "Return to..." which where timed windows where you could get LW episode for free from just log in and get an email (which unlocked that episode). Last episode ended now in December with Champion (IBS - LW Season 5).

In other words if you wait long enough it will probably be possible to get all LW season for free as it very likely that ANet will run a new "Return to..." when they will release next LW season after EoD have been out for some time.

There has been only one "Return" cycle so far. The original releases of all the LW episodes to date do not count as "Return to ...", naturally. 😉

It is unlikely we will get another one - what for? It wouldn't make sense to implement another story that would have us redo everything again (most people would feel cheated, as repetition is hardly content).

[Fuchslein.8639]

Why are people so keen on a monthly fee?
I only play Gw2 because of the concept, buy once, play forever. Simply because I am an on/off player and don't want to be forced by a monthly price to play so the money doesn't end up in the oven. And I bet that many who love GW2 today would never have started without this concept.

Especially in connection with the LW. Where a monthly price would be so much more expensive than just buying the episodes.

More transparence on Anet's side? YES!
Monthly subscription? NO!

[AliamRationem.5172]

4 hours ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

Why are people so keen on a monthly fee?
I only play Gw2 because of the concept, buy once, play forever. Simply because I am an on/off player and don't want to be forced by a monthly price to play so the money doesn't end up in the oven. And I bet that many who love GW2 today would never have started without this concept.

Especially in connection with the LW. Where a monthly price would be so much more expensive than just buying the episodes.

More transparence on Anet's side? YES!
Monthly subscription? NO!

In my experience subscription-based games deliver a lot more content.  If I could have that in GW2, I'd have no problem paying a monthly fee for it.  However, that's just me and I don't think it would work for this game.  We have an established player base that is more or less satisfied with the pay structure or they wouldn't be established.  Switching to a subscription model now would likely drive away too many players.

[Ashantara.8731]

2 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

In my experience subscription-based games deliver a lot more content.

In the case of GW2, there would be no guarantee that quantity equals quality when it comes to story. So no, I don't see a reason to switch to a subscription-based model.

[vanfrano.1325]

FFXIV basically triple-dips with a sub, an awful cash shop and an app and doesn't deliver.

[voltaicbore.8012]

5 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

In the case of GW2, there would be no guarantee that quantity equals quality when it comes to story. So no, I don't see a reason to switch to a subscription-based model.

I fully agree. As @AliamRationem.5172 said subscription based games generally seem to enjoy a steadier cadence of updates, along with a higher volume of content in general. But there is a serious quantity-vs-quality issue, which is probably why most sub games are going to be forever tied to the vertical progression gear treadmill; the treadmill itself accounts for a lot of time, effort, and attraction when it comes to new content.

GW2 of course cannot feasibly rely on the treadmill (it would be absolutely suicidal). So the only real option would be, as @Ashantara.8731 notes, to include more regular story updates. Given how unevenly things have turned out on that front over the past 9 years, I'm not sure more of that is something anyone wants.

[The Boz.2038]

On 1/17/2022 at 10:40 AM, AliamRationem.5172 said:

In my experience subscription-based games deliver a lot more content.  If I could have that in GW2, I'd have no problem paying a monthly fee for it.  However, that's just me and I don't think it would work for this game.  We have an established player base that is more or less satisfied with the pay structure or they wouldn't be established.  Switching to a subscription model now would likely drive away too many players.

You don't end up with more content, however. You get content with a best before date, and it gets sunset real quick, and real hard, within 12 months. Prime example: WoW.

I can still go back to S3, six year old content, and get *five* best-in-slot items from it efficiently; and a forever-account-best legendary. The maps are still active. Events still happen regularly.

[AliamRationem.5172]

3 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

You don't end up with more content, however. You get content with a best before date, and it gets sunset real quick, and real hard, within 12 months. Prime example: WoW.

I can still go back to S3, six year old content, and get *five* best-in-slot items from it efficiently; and a forever-account-best legendary. The maps are still active. Events still happen regularly.

I'm not convinced that's inherent to the subscription model and unlike GW2, WoW offers a variety of content to support game modes other than just solo PvE.  That's the biggest downside to B2P/F2P.  What do we get for PvP?  Conquest, conquest, a little more conquest?  Fractals?  One every 1.5-2 years?  Raids? Dead.  Dungeons? Dead.

Again, I'm not advocating to change GW2 to sub model.  Like I said, it wouldn't work here.  But somebody asked why you would want to pay and that's why.  I played WoW for years and it consistently delivered way more content than GW2 ever has.  If it were just me, I'd gladly pay more to get more content.