So let me get this straight [Merged]

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

and WoW's playerbase has been crashing. 

Even Asmongold is done with it.

Because the 'content' sucks.

[mikansei.5742]

8 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I'm not convinced that's inherent to the subscription model and unlike GW2, WoW offers a variety of content to support game modes other than just solo PvE.  That's the biggest downside to B2P/F2P.  What do we get for PvP?  Conquest, conquest, a little more conquest?  Fractals?  One every 1.5-2 years?  Raids? Dead.  Dungeons? Dead.

Again, I'm not advocating to change GW2 to sub model.  Like I said, it wouldn't work here.  But somebody asked why you would want to pay and that's why.  I played WoW for years and it consistently delivered way more content than GW2 ever has.  If it were just me, I'd gladly pay more to get more content. 

...I'm not sure you want to hold up WoW's PvP as the better-supported option here. By all accounts the PvP gear gap is in the sorriest state it's ever been in, and it's been in some real sorry states.

Edited January 18, 2022 by mikansei.5742
unintentional kitten <_<

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, mikansei.5742 said:

...I'm not sure you want to hold up WoW's PvP as the better-supported option here. By all accounts the PvP gear gap is in the sorriest state it's ever been in, and it's been in some real sorry states.

All I am saying is if I could have GW2 but with way more content like WoW delivers, kitten yeah I would pay a subscription for that.  But for various reasons that wouldn't work here, so I'm not suggesting it.  Anyway, I can see this is too complex a concept for people.  Minds are starting to blow.  Time to move on.  Have a nice thread!

[Dawdler.8521]

5 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

All I am saying is if I could have GW2 but with way more content like WoW delivers, kitten yeah I would pay a subscription for that.  But for various reasons that wouldn't work here, so I'm not suggesting it.  Anyway, I can see this is too complex a concept for people.  Minds are starting to blow.  Time to move on.  Have a nice thread!

Pretty sure its just confusion since people often cite WoW failing due to lack of content.

[DarcShriek.5829]

If your financial situation is such that you have to choose between a living story episode and a bottle of water (they both cost about the same), then buy the bottle of water.

[Obtena.7952]

On 1/13/2022 at 12:50 AM, Dragontamer.9546 said:

So I have to buy the living stories just tp play them? I get it the price of the game content is 200 diamonds but still why do I buy any game Content after buying the game ?  They should just do what most games do and do  monthly fee MMorpgs are just a money sink. we all know this but it is getting to the point were you just are big money of you have to tack a loan out on your house just to play the game . I know if I Don't like it then don't play it yup I got it No need to say it .One more thing this game could do it if you are a new account you should get living story 2 for free. 

These posts are just weird. Anet has a business model that works and the content is reasonably priced while giving players choices (and considering the fact that you can buy these with gems ... is actually a very GRACIOUS thing for Anet to offer). They are going to change it because you think there is a problem you have to pay for content directly?

I mean, ... 200 Gems is less than THREE US DOLLARS ... what is the problem here?

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Eros.6801]

On 1/13/2022 at 12:50 PM, Dragontamer.9546 said:

So I have to buy the living stories just tp play them? I get it the price of the game content is 200 diamonds but still why do I buy any game Content after buying the game ?  They should just do what most games do and do  monthly fee MMorpgs are just a money sink. we all know this but it is getting to the point were you just are big money of you have to tack a loan out on your house just to play the game . I know if I Don't like it then don't play it yup I got it No need to say it .One more thing this game could do it if you are a new account you should get living story 2 for free. 

There is a limit of certain privileges Anet can offer to new comers. Like most mmorpgs out there we value our new player but that doesn't give them the right to ask for whatever they want and throw a tantrum when things don't go their way, that is very disrepectful to the whole community  as specially to those who has supported and still supporting the game over the years. Have you ever considered their time, efforts and money they put in to keep the game running before throwing a tantrum ?.

We bought the core game, 2 DLCs and the upcoming one separately over 9 years. New comer nowadays get core game to try out for free, both old DLCs as the price of one and i'm pretty sure in the future there will more sales as well. Not to mention those who joined the game in between, they still have to work their way up in LW but i've rarely seen someone among those folks with childish complain like you  and the game doesn't requires you to put in any real money after purchased all you have to do is play the game, transfer your efforts of playing into gems then buy LW, again what give you the delusion that you have more right than these hard working ppl ?

Lastly if you value your money that much then why did you spent them on a game in the first place and regret after ?. LW open up many new oppotunities and very much worth the effort of just 200 gems each. The game let you try out for free even if you are going in blind when involving money the first thing you do is research and seek advice from various sources and i can clearly see you did not so this entire situation is on you, don't blame anything else because of your carelessness.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Eros.6801

[mckannis.9104]

I'm a new player .  Purchased the content.  Been playing for about 2 weeks.  To now find out I don't actually have access to all the content is a slap in the face.  Only and last AN purchase.   Best of luck with this train wreck.  I'll be over on Lost Arc.  I hear that not only is it free, but you get all the content...

[voltaicbore.8012]

10 minutes ago, mckannis.9104 said:

I'm a new player .  Purchased the content.  Been playing for about 2 weeks.  To now find out I don't actually have access to all the content is a slap in the face.  Only and last AN purchase.   Best of luck with this train wreck.  I'll be over on Lost Arc.  I hear that not only is it free, but you get all the content...

Guess you should have checked the forums first. /s

You probably won't read this, but I fully sympathize with the issue. I've said it already in this thread, and I'll say it again every single time the occasion presents itself - LW truly is a terribly, horribly, insufficiently marketed aspect of the game. It's a big black mark on an otherwise extremely consumer-friendly experience.

ANet, please... just do something about this already. Offer the full LW bundle at the point of sale with an asterisk that LW actually continues the main story, or maybe even just that asterisk statement on the bundles themselves. And if you have trouble coming up with a good solution, you have your predecessors at the studio to blame for making the choice to continue main story in what your company otherwise treats as optional DLC.

As they say, sometimes even if a problem is not your fault, it is often still your responsibility to address it. The roots of this ludicrous LW duality were laid down long before the current team was in place, but it nonetheless falls to the current team to do something about it.

As for anyone who thinks this is not a problem worth addressing... I have to admit that you might be right; I have no solid data of any kind on how this lack of proper LW marketing/disclaimer impacts revenues at all. All I can say is that for a game that depends as heavily on word of mouth as this one does, the opportunity cost of these sorts of bad customer experiences piles up over time.

Edited February 5, 2022 by voltaicbore.8012

[voltaicbore.8012]

On 1/21/2022 at 8:42 AM, Eros.6801 said:

Lastly if you value your money that much then why did you spent them on a game in the first place and regret after ?. LW open up many new oppotunities and very much worth the effort of just 200 gems each. The game let you try out for free even if you are going in blind when involving money the first thing you do is research and seek advice from various sources and i can clearly see you did not so this entire situation is on you, don't blame anything else because of your carelessness.

I get what you're saying, there are indeed measures consumers can take to protect themselves from poor business practices.

But that's just the thing - even if you, the consumer, could have done something to protect yourself... the problem is that you needed to protect yourself in the first place. The bad business practice is the actual problem here, and any real solution starts with addressing that.

[Luthan.5236]

It is actually a ton cheaper than other MMORPGs (that have subscriptions). Unless you really only wanna play a few mins. You do not need to buy all at once. The living world seasons/episodes have packages that go on sale regularly. And you can earn gems ingame by trading to gold too gems (okay ... that one can get grindy a bit especially if you want to explore without having to farm) and recently (last year) there had been a huge "return to" event (split on severyl weeks) - where the episodes were free for players that logged in during that time.

First two expansions are 2 for the price of 1.

I think I bought everything. (Returned June 2019 after stopping end 2013 - had to buy all seasons/episodes.) But everything on sale ... even the HoT+PoF bundle on sale I think. Lol.

The thousands of hours I played ... with subscription this would have been more expensive. Even including the bank tab expansions and stuff I bought (few times paying 50 euros for 4000 gems ... like twice a year or so maybe).

I think most subscription models (if only paying monthly - which I'd do for other games cause I get bored fast by most other games) are more t han 10 euros per month (or dollar in dollar). So ... long-term it is cheaper without subscription unless you buy a ton of skins in the gem store (that are not needed - but a good way for peopl to support the game and make it possible for others to play without having to pay).

Edit: But yes: The communication is very bad her e- from ArenaNet. Should be more explanation at the store where you buy the expansions. + other bundles. I'm always advocating to bundle not PoF+HoT ... but bundling an expansion with the previous living world season (leadin up to that expansion) - so you can acutally play the expansion without having to buy again (the season 2 in case of HoT) - if you do not want to skip story parts.

Edited February 5, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[voltaicbore.8012]

5 hours ago, Luthan.5236 said:

Edit: But yes: The communication is very bad her e- from ArenaNet. Should be more explanation at the store where you buy the expansions. + other bundles. I'm always advocating to bundle not PoF+HoT ... but bundling an expansion with the previous living world season (leadin up to that expansion) - so you can acutally play the expansion without having to buy again (the season 2 in case of HoT) - if you do not want to skip story parts.

This is a pretty excellent idea. As you say, the problem is not the price of LW; overall GW2 is far and away the best value for your money, and LW fits that profile. The amount and quality of content you can get for a one-time purchase is excellent.

People just need to be told, before buying a sizeable bundle, that LW continues the main story. They also need to be given an opportunity to actually buy it up front.

[Obtena.7952]

23 hours ago, mckannis.9104 said:

I'm a new player .  Purchased the content.  Been playing for about 2 weeks.  To now find out I don't actually have access to all the content is a slap in the face.  Only and last AN purchase.   Best of luck with this train wreck.  I'll be over on Lost Arc.  I hear that not only is it free, but you get all the content...

You purchased SOME content ... there are other content you can purchase in addition to the one you did purchase, whatever it was. 

The content in LA might be free ... but you find out soon what that restricts you to.

Edited February 6, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Astralporing.1957]

On 1/19/2022 at 7:47 AM, Dawdler.8521 said:

Pretty sure its just confusion since people often cite WoW failing due to lack of content.

And yet most WoW players moved on to highly succesful owadays FF XIV, with the exact same delivery process, which strongly suggest that the failure of the content had nothing to do with the subscription system.

[Blue D Phoenix.7260]

God kitten these entitled people. You bought a game and now every new things should be free? Lol. Gw2 is kind enough to offer us,

1. Free core game, with infinite trail time and max level 80. (No other good mmos does it)
2. Bundle two expansions for the price of one! ( and soemtimes its on discount)
3. Give new LWS episodes for free just cause you logged in (new story,map,mounts,MPS,etc - there's a lot of work put into it, you think your entitled to have it for free cause you paid 15$?lol)
4. Gold to gems convert!! (I bought all the skins and account upgrade using this, i cant afford much irl)

As a person from a 3rd world country who cant afford 10+usd every month for entertainment, gw2 gave me the opportunity to play with less cost. Hell, it made me paperchase eod.

And if you want montly sub or something similar in gw2, i suggest play on china server, they have that system.

[Keitaro Dragonheart.9047]

On 2/6/2022 at 2:24 PM, Blue D Phoenix.7260 said:

God kitten these entitled people. You bought a game and now every new things should be free? Lol. Gw2 is kind enough to offer us,

1. Free core game, with infinite trail time and max level 80. (No other good mmos does it)
2. Bundle two expansions for the price of one! ( and soemtimes its on discount)
3. Give new LWS episodes for free just cause you logged in (new story,map,mounts,MPS,etc - there's a lot of work put into it, you think your entitled to have it for free cause you paid 15$?lol)
4. Gold to gems convert!! (I bought all the skins and account upgrade using this, i cant afford much irl)

As a person from a 3rd world country who cant afford 10+usd every month for entertainment, gw2 gave me the opportunity to play with less cost. Hell, it made me paperchase eod.

And if you want montly sub or something similar in gw2, i suggest play on china server, they have that system.

This, all of this. I have been saying this for a long time now. Today's gamers are so entitled, they feel like they should be given everything for free, with little to no regard for how hard the Devs have worked to deliver said content.

Anet has been more than generous with their content since launch. You are not owed anything, nor do you have the right to demand anything for free. They're people, not slaves. (unrelated note; its a bout time the Gaming Industry got Unions.)

Thank you for this post.

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Keitaro Dragonheart.9047 said:

This, all of this. I have been saying this for a long time now. Today's gamers are so entitled, they feel like they should be given everything for free, with little to no regard for how hard the Devs have worked to deliver said content.

Anet has been more than generous with their content since launch. You are not owed anything, nor do you have the right to demand anything for free. They're people, not slaves. (unrelated note; its a bout time the Gaming Industry got Unions.)

Thank you for this post.

On the other hand, you can blame the players for being "entitled" all you want, but ultimately what matters is whether or not your monetization method is successful.

It has nothing to do with not appreciating the efforts of the developers.  They were paid for those efforts and presumably they would like to continue that arrangement, which can only happen with the continued success of the game.  In that sense, both players and developers are in agreement.  Where we disagree is in how we go about achieving that goal.

The monetary barrier to entry in this game is significant when you include the DLC.  I believe a player starting from scratch will spend a little over $100 to unlock all of the expansions + DLC.  You can argue that's a small price to pay for so much content and I agree 100%, but this really isn't about us.  We're already invested.  It's about prospective players.  How many of them will decide not to take a chance on GW2 because the cost of entry and will that cost outweigh the gain in revenue from players purchasing the DLC?

Also, I do have a related complaint.  I feel ANet is being very disingenuous with the way they market this.  It is in no way clear to new players that purchasing all of the expansions does not, in fact, provide access to all of the content.  The specific wording ANet uses is very misleading.  The description for the full expansion collection begins:

"Get everything you need to experience Tyria, a vast living world."

It goes on to specify the 3 expansions by name, but how would a new player know to make this distinction?  The use of the phrase "living world" is not an accident.  This is the official name for the DLC, which is not included in the collection.

[Sigerk.2897]

I agree that the Living World needs to be more visible when looking to purchase GW2. I had some friends over from another game. They bought the x-pac bundles, which they liked. They almost all commented on how nice it was to get this much in a relatively cheap package, not having to pay a sub-fee and all that. Then they'd start playing, wanting to progress their characters, get involved in the story and then they encounter the first hurdle, which is season 1 not being there anymore. Then it's finding out the story is locked behind S2. They have the base game, HOT and POF but have to buy s2,3,4 and 5 to experience the story continuously. 

Now they all came from a sub-based game. Forking over money is not really the issue. The lack of visibility/transparency is. Once I explained what exactly the LW format is, and how it can be compared to dlc's from other mmo's, where you not only pay a monthly fee, but also often have to pay to keep the actual content, they were mostly on board with this. 

As far as money>content goes, LW is worth it. But no one likes to find out that the game they bought isn't complete, while the way it is being marketed does make it sound like it is. 

Just put the LW next to the base game and x-pacs on the store page. Explain what's in them and you'll have less players with bad/wrong impressions. Better yet, make ''ultimate'' bundles that actually come with everything and price it accordingly. 

The content to price ratio in this game is good, so market it in a way that promotes that, instead of hiding what by now amounts to half of the content in this game. 

[Labjax.2465]

This has been brought up a number of times, I know, but I'm gonna bring it up one more time. And I want to make something clear here... to a new customer considering this game, the game means nothing to them. They know nothing about it, they have no idea if they'll like it. But one thing people do like is the idea of good deals, where they get stuff at a discount that previously cost more. This is a standard practice in sales, in fact, that stuff is sold at higher amounts in the beginning and then lower over time to get more buyers.

It doesn't matter what I think the game is worth or what any poster here thinks the game is worth, or how much content it is on paper. It doesn't matter what anet thinks the game is worth or how much money they want from the steam release. What matters is how people think and how they are most likely going to think "this is a terrible deal." That is, if they even realize how it works before they've already put some money into the game, in which case they'll be even more annoyed (plenty of stories like this as it is).

Wanting to maximizing money from LW sales at this point and risking a lot of people who are mad about how it's set up, is sort of like the classic DPSer in an MMO who is so focused on topping the charts they get wrecked by mechanics and now they are doing 0 DPS. Do you want a consistent rise in profits, some steady growth? Or you want to be greedy to top those charts and get wrecked by mechanics.

Bundle LW with a package expansion deal without increasing the cost or heck, just make them free. Take the perceived "loss" and enjoy the good press by telling people all about how it used to cost more and what a fantastic deal they're getting. Get patted on the back for doing mechanics and get invited back again next time.

Don't squander this opportunity because of short-term profit stubbornness. You got more financial quarters to worry about than the one you release the game on steam in. A spike in sales is not going to help you much if it's followed by a bad reputation.

I'm honestly not sure why I'm bothering to write this. It's probably not worth the time, especially on the weekend when everybody's off lol. And I will probably get people telling me it can't be free because profits. BUT, that's kinda the whole point here... the model as it is, is damaging to profits. It just might look worth it if you are staring at the DPS meter, right up until the moment you get wrecked by mechanics.

[Luci.7018]

The problem is , that half the Living Stories are kinda fillers or very hard for solo players to complete (s2) while the surrounding areas are kinda empty of population. It will better if they don't pay anything and instead push them where the majority of the population are (Soo Won..?) .

 

I would advice 4 things :

a) Takes the best Living Stories(Balthazar-Joko) and connect them with some artistic pictures (or become trainning areas for newbies Desingers to create low budget Stories . (they try to use all the assets  to use shorter versions -EoD story Stealth >plant bombs > attack to Joko castle)) and place an extra 10-15 dollars to the next Core/HoT/PoF/EoD package

b) Each expansion's big meta events (Tannir) should progress by a tinny amount (daily-once) the progression towards unlocking the Masteries for Mounts + other things , in case S4 population die down in the future

edit: c) Keep the EoD intro Living Stories (till this point) as continuation of the Core story. Then move the population for the next expanion

d) create a community contest , for creating the best videos for "in-between the Expanion Story" to be showcased to the new people

Edited August 14, 2022 by Luci.7018

[lezbefriends.7516]

Sadly, short-term profit trumps long-term gains in the financial playbook.

Edited August 14, 2022 by lezbefriends.7516

[Sunchaser.9854]

Hey now, how on earth will players miss out on the wonderful story that is Find aurene, Hatch Aurene, Raise aurene, Feed Aurene, Use Aurene to eat all the other dragons if we don't sell the story for 50$ + 50$? 

 

Sure, players could just play with most of the  meta mounts for like 15$ in path of fire, but if they aren't story loving purists, they should love paying 50-85$ just to see the wonderful story of a plotline that makes no sense until you purchase it, only to find out after purchasing it, it was all to introduce a character you already know for the sound of Ka-CHING noises! 😛 But yeah. Having a bundle that at least saves you a bit of money for all the seasons would be nice. Ls4 was pretty good, and ls3:3 has good ascended trinkets/ring/etc.

But yeah i hope they do some kinda bundle or launch. There's supposed to be a steam sale but it'll be mighty sad that as long as they paywall the content, most people are going to likely experience the story out of order as the monetization fights linear plot coherence for the NOT 10 consecutive year players for a middling story at best that can be kinda summed up as. "Finding a magical dragon to solve all magical problems." 

[Healix.5819]

They're not planning on bundling it - the page says it's sold separately in-game. They likely would have made more up front by offering it as an extra addition on Steam, but their other option is doing another replay, which would potentially keep players active for far longer.

[kharmin.7683]

5 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

This has been brought up a number of times, I know, but I'm gonna bring it up one more time.

Sure because yet another thread on this topic will change Anet's mind this time.  (sigh)

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Here's the Steam text in question: