Some of the best and most useless down skills

[seraph shay.6170]

 

If down states are going to stick around (which I am sure they will), can some classes be helped out a little? Some classes have pretty effective down state skills in PvP, imo these classes are:

Ranger

Engi

Thief

Necro

Mesmer

Warrior (if they can get a full rally)

ele

Meanwhile, other classes have almost useless down state skills and it makes the whole down state mechanic feel pointless. I main rev and our downstate skills are severely lacking, we have one knockdown and despite the strength of the knockback (if it lands) we have no other useful skills to use. If both a rev and a ranger are in downstate on a node, 9 times out of 10 the ranger will win simply because their downstate skills are better (e.g., their pet can heal them). Other class down states like guardian are also lacking. What do you all think? 

[aymnad.9023]

That those threads are meaningless and useless (I care about what a profession does alive) and that guard is in no way worst than engineer.

Edited January 14, 2022 by aymnad.9023

[Gladiotor.7561]

The solution is simple. Dont get downed before the opponent 🙂

Imo only ranger downstate is OP. Rest is fine. 

[Zexanima.7851]

As far as sPvP is concerned, as long as there MUST be a down state,  I think all down states should be synonymous. Flavor be damned. You get a short range daze on a long cooldown so you can interrupt a single stomp, you get a self heal just as it works now. These two skills, exactly the same, every profession. The way I view down state is to give your team a chance to get you back in the fight. Not for you to be impacting the game in any way. You're down, you're out, there should be nothing more for you to do until you get rezzed or respawn. 

Edited January 15, 2022 by Zexanima.7851

[bethekey.8314]

1 hour ago, seraph shay.6170 said:

 

If down states are going to stick around (which I am sure they will), can some classes be helped out a little? Some classes have pretty effective down state skills in PvP, imo these classes are:

Ranger

Engi

Thief

Necro

Mesmer

Warrior (if they can get a full rally)

ele

Meanwhile, other classes have almost useless down state skills and it makes the whole down state mechanic feel pointless. I main rev and our downstate skills are severely lacking, we have one knockdown and despite the strength of the knockback (if it lands) we have no other useful skills to use. If both a rev and a ranger are in downstate on a node, 9 times out of 10 the ranger will win simply because their downstate skills are better (e.g., their pet can heal them). Other class down states like guardian are also lacking. What do you all think? 

 

The devs don't seem to balance around downstate in PvP. If that's true, all downstates should be the same imo. Right now there is a huge discrepancy between them.

 

Rangers essentially win all downstate battles with pet rez and stuns.

Thieves can avoid multiple stompers and port to the safety of teammates/vertical ledges.

Necros can sometimes dps harder in downstate than while living, fear is amazing.

Mesmer can avoid multiple stompers and port to safety. Their backstab does insane damage.

Ele can avoid multiple stompers and mist to safety.

Guardian can knockback multiple stompers and its self rez lets it win many downstate battles.

 

Warrior, Rev, and Engi are lacking.

 

Warrior is pretty standard, unless it gets a lucky Vengeance. It can prevent one stomp with a projectile (easily blocked).

Rev has a non-projectile, near instant, long push to prevent one stomp and delay their return. Slow on auto is powerful.

 

Engi is by far the worst. It can prevent one stomp with a projectile, literally pulling them closer if they weren't in range to stomp before. It has a weak, random condi auto attack. It's only saving grace is a decent explosion, but it rarely makes it there.

 

Edited January 15, 2022 by bethekey.8314

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

The only thing that needs to change in downstate is rangers shouldnt be able to use their pet abilities or swap pets.

[Bazsi.2734]

3 hours ago, Zexanima.7851 said:

As far as sPvP is concerned, as long as there MUST be a down state,  I think all down states should be synonymous. Flavor be damned. You get a short range daze on a long cooldown so you can interrupt a single stomp, you get a self heal just as it works now. These two skills, exactly the same, every profession. The way I view down state is to give your team a chance to get you back in the fight. Not for you to be impacting the game in any way. You're down, you're out, there should be nothing more for you to do until you get rezzed or respawn. 

Even though I'd like something that retains unique feel to all classes, this would be better than nothing... as necro and ranger downstates are too strong compared to the others.

A necro can literally down a 40-50% health enemy if a stomp is attempted without blindfields/stealth. A ranger can interrupt, pet-revive, pet-interrupt, pet-swap... compare this to something like a revenant downstate. They aren't even remotely close.
Downstate and underwater combat are part of this game too so... either make them good or do away with them.

 

[ollbirtan.2915]

Stop. Asking. For. More. Nerfs. 

 

 

[Widmo.3186]

Revenant downed skill is useless? Ahahahaha, yeah, spammable aa with perma slow is certainly useless. And guard with AoE knockback and healing, another useless skills. The only class that is always certainly too powerful in downed state is Ranger because of the stupid and bugged to oblivion skill Lick Wounds (3) and pet swapping/using pet abilities. So you pointing out 7 out of 9 classes that should be nerfed(?) and other 2 buffed is delusional and biased af

PS: And all that being said by someone that would rather see downed state deleted from the game

Edited January 15, 2022 by Widmo.3186

[Shao.7236]

I've managed to down multiple people in downstate at once with that 3rd skill with Revenant, on Berserker stats you can get nasty hits going up as high as 6k sometimes when people are too close.

[Genesis.5169]

14 hours ago, seraph shay.6170 said:

 

If down states are going to stick around (which I am sure they will), can some classes be helped out a little? Some classes have pretty effective down state skills in PvP, imo these classes are:

Ranger

Engi

Thief

Necro

Mesmer

Warrior (if they can get a full rally)

ele

Meanwhile, other classes have almost useless down state skills and it makes the whole down state mechanic feel pointless. I main rev and our downstate skills are severely lacking, we have one knockdown and despite the strength of the knockback (if it lands) we have no other useful skills to use. If both a rev and a ranger are in downstate on a node, 9 times out of 10 the ranger will win simply because their downstate skills are better (e.g., their pet can heal them). Other class down states like guardian are also lacking. What do you all think? 

Whoa its like most the classes in the game have a useful except the two people who have awesome utility while alive, to me downstate's the most balanced part of the game.

Edited January 15, 2022 by Genesis.5169

[Math.5123]

6 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

I've managed to down multiple people in downstate at once with that 3rd skill with Revenant, on Berserker stats you can get nasty hits going up as high as 6k sometimes when people are too close.

This has mad scaling in wvw, I got hit for 17k by downstate rev 3.

[Lonecap.4105]

12 minutes ago, Math.5123 said:

This has mad scaling in wvw, I got hit for 17k by downstate rev 3.

Yeah it's 2.5 coefficient with all pulses.

[Bazsi.2734]

8 hours ago, ollbirtan.2915 said:

Stop. Asking. For. More. Nerfs. 

 

 

How. Is. Not. Nerfing. Ever. A. Good. Thing?

[anjo.6143]

17 hours ago, Zexanima.7851 said:

As far as sPvP is concerned, as long as there MUST be a down state,  I think all down states should be synonymous. Flavor be damned. You get a short range daze on a long cooldown so you can interrupt a single stomp, you get a self heal just as it works now. These two skills, exactly the same, every profession. The way I view down state is to give your team a chance to get you back in the fight. Not for you to be impacting the game in any way. You're down, you're out, there should be nothing more for you to do until you get rezzed or respawn. 

 

100% agreed. All downstates should be the same. 

[lightDestroyer.1265]

14 minutes ago, anjo.6143 said:

 

100% agreed. All downstates should be the same. 

No,  cuz the logic could then be all classrs should be exactly same. 

[CutesySylveon.8290]

3 hours ago, lightDestroyer.1265 said:

No,  cuz the logic could then be all classrs should be exactly same. 

I have no real opinion on the topic at hand, but this argument isn't legitimate. People are specifically talking about downstate and you're just exaggerating to a ridiculous degree. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

22 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

The only thing that needs to change in downstate is rangers shouldnt be able to use their pet abilities or swap pets.

 

On 1/14/2022 at 7:01 PM, Gladiotor.7561 said:

The solution is simple. Dont get downed before the opponent 🙂

Imo only ranger downstate is OP. Rest is fine. 

These two.

Ranger's the only class atm that can maintain pressure in downstate. Everyone else's downstate is a stall and are appropriate but Ranger can actively pick themselves back up through cleave.

Lick wounds needs to go on full cd the moment the pet experiences any hard cc or daze, and pet swap should be disabled in downstate. Everything else is fine. 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[lightDestroyer.1265]

7 hours ago, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

I have no real opinion on the topic at hand, but this argument isn't legitimate. People are specifically talking about downstate and you're just exaggerating to a ridiculous degree. 

When you have different classes offering different things,  it is completely logical to have different down states offering different things.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

7 hours ago, lightDestroyer.1265 said:

When you have different classes offering different things,  it is completely logical to have different down states offering different things.

People arguing that downstates should be largely the same isn't the same as saying the classes themselves should be the same, that's the point.

[lightDestroyer.1265]

17 minutes ago, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

People arguing that downstates should be largely the same isn't the same as saying the classes themselves should be the same, that's the point.

The point is that down states being different is not a problem at all. 

[CutesySylveon.8290]

4 hours ago, lightDestroyer.1265 said:

The point is that down states being different is not a problem at all. 

Them being different isn't a problem, but there are clearly some overtuned ones or ones that have specific interactions that shouldn't be there. 

[bethekey.8314]

14 hours ago, lightDestroyer.1265 said:

When you have different classes offering different things,  it is completely logical to have different down states offering different things.

Ok. If some classes' down states are objectively better, then their living states should also be objectively worse? Balance right?

I've never seen a balance discussion where anyone accepted being undertuned due to having a stronger downstate.

Edited January 16, 2022 by bethekey.8314

[lightDestroyer.1265]

53 minutes ago, bethekey.8314 said:

Ok. If some classes' down states are objectively better, then their living states should also be objectively worse? Balance right?

I've never seen a balance discussion where anyone accepted being undertuned due to having a stronger downstate.

I said different,  better or worse us subjective.  

[CutesySylveon.8290]

1 hour ago, lightDestroyer.1265 said:

I said different,  better or worse us subjective.  

No, we can draw some definitive conclusions that some are far better than others.