About the WvW restructuring

[Klendathu.2518]

Soooo.... if you didnt make it into one of the large WvW guilds, you just have to live without any leading commanders, without any ts or discord participation and without any kind of structure? Ive played this test for a single night and its actual hell... feels like going from a leading server to the bottom RP trash... do i have to quit my PvE guilds, just to be able to have fun in Wvw? Do i have to delete my personal guild to avoid WvW hell? What the chak was the idea behind this mess?

[yoni.7015]

Just join a WvW guild, problem solved. 

[PartyVeteran.5803]

9 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

Just join a WvW guild, problem solved. 

+pray your account doesn't get server glitches and leftout with your guildies.

[yoni.7015]

3 minutes ago, PartyVeteran.5803 said:

+pray your account doesn't get server glitches and leftout with your guildies.

True, but it’s just a beta for a week. 

Edited January 15, 2022 by yoni.7015

[PartyVeteran.5803]

Just now, yoni.7015 said:

It’s just a beta for a week. 

In the above, you mentioned to solve the problem is join a wvw guild, abd wvw guild runs almost daily, so you missing out 1 week of action.

Especially It's 2x WXP week. And not to mentioned 1 week slower on pips farming.

[Klendathu.2518]

and then?

Destroying existing servercommunities without solving any of the existing wvw problems will effectively kill what was left of wvw.

Just make some structured gvg and leave the server system as it is.

[Vayne.8563]

32 minutes ago, Klendathu.2518 said:

and then?

Destroying existing servercommunities without solving any of the existing wvw problems will effectively kill what was left of wvw.

Just make some structured gvg and leave the server system as it is.

The servers WERE the problem. I say to kitten with the server communities if the balances are crap.

 

I play on TC. When we were in Tier 1 a long time ago, we had the problem of always being up against 2 servers we really couldn't compete against. So we'd be in 3rd place all the time. Every time. Beaten no matter what we did. Hard to get around for anyone, nevermind  more casual players who want to get stuff done. If you didn't like dying a lot you just stopped coming in which compounded the problem.

Then we'd drop to tier 2, which we were two good for and always came in first. Which meant the other two teams against us were screwed for an entire week every other week.  One week guaranteed third place, one week guaranteed first place, back and forth like a yo-yo and who was happy? 

 

People would deliberately tank so we'd go lower so we could play...that was decided by the server community but not everyone was onboard with it, which lead to a lot of infighting.  The servers are a huge part of the problem and one of the reasons I all but stopped playing WvW.

[Cyninja.2954]

3 hours ago, Klendathu.2518 said:

Soooo.... if you didnt make it into one of the large WvW guilds, you just have to live without any leading commanders, without any ts or discord participation and without any kind of structure? Ive played this test for a single night and its actual hell... feels like going from a leading server to the bottom RP trash... do i have to quit my PvE guilds, just to be able to have fun in Wvw? Do i have to delete my personal guild to avoid WvW hell? What the chak was the idea behind this mess?

 

So, you:

1. Decided to not bother with joining a wvw guild before the beta (or ever)

2. Didn't follow the past betas and how those went

3. Expect coordination and organization of others, while not wanting to do so yourself

 

How integral to your server community have you been thus far? Your actions make you seem not all to engaged or interested in it until now, when suddenly your gameplay is affected.

 

Lucky you though, you now get to play with a lot of similar minded players. Minimal investement while having maximum demands of others.

 

Open tags, voice comms, organization, wvw guilds, organise resets, etc. those all require players to invest effort and time to make them available (and in some cases money) to the community. It's not only about GvG. In fact GvG has almost nothing to do with this. Turns out many of these more active community shaping players are invested enough to join/create WvW guilds.

 

Even more lucky: it's only one week. Maybe you'll feel more commited in the future if thus game mode is indeed dear to you.

[Danikat.8537]

Bear in mind this is just a beta to test part of the system, not the final version, so a lot of options aren't in yet. But just like with servers you can get onto the same world as organised guilds. Either the game will select one for you or you can choose one on the restructuring tab.

 

If theres a particular community or group you want to stay with then yes joining a guild (or an alliance when those are implemented) is the best way to do it, but thats also true with servers.

 

I don't know how others are doing it but both Griffonfall and Fortunes Vale are 'borrowing' discord servers from some of their guilds or members normal servers. 

 

What do you currently do when the commanders you rely on to organise groups for you move servers? If you're not in their guild or another social group how do you know where they've gone in order to follow them? Or do you just stay on a server and rely on new commanders filling the gap? If it's the second one you can do the same with teams. 

[Gibson.4036]

“Just join a WvW guild” is kinda problematic at this point, though, isn’t it?

If I join a WvW guild I can play with for the beta event, they may be on a different server when the beta event ends, and I won’t be able to join them until next beta event. Or am I not understanding something?

I’m personally in favor of what they’re trying to do with alliances, but feeling a little in limbo at the moment because I don’t want to restrict myself to joining a WvW guild on my current server if servers are going away soon with the full launch of alliances.

[Dantana.8510]

6 hours ago, Klendathu.2518 said:

Soooo.... if you didnt make it into one of the large WvW guilds, you just have to live without any leading commanders, without any ts or discord participation and without any kind of structure? Ive played this test for a single night and its actual hell... feels like going from a leading server to the bottom RP trash... do i have to quit my PvE guilds, just to be able to have fun in Wvw? Do i have to delete my personal guild to avoid WvW hell? What the chak was the idea behind this mess?

My wife and I are a duo, now my guild is in Blue, my wife is in Green and I am in Red. WTG ANET!

[Klendathu.2518]

 

4 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Open tags, voice comms, organization, wvw guilds, organise resets, etc. those all require players to invest effort and time to make them available (and in some cases money) to the community. It's not only about GvG. In fact GvG has almost nothing to do with this. Turns out many of these more active community shaping players are invested enough to join/create WvW guilds.

I am in an active wvw guild. Just not a large one. We are on our server part of a larger community. A simple network of guilds, commanders and other active players. Right now we endet up in First Haven and its a joke. you offer a tag noone joins, you offer ts or discord and noone joins. 

we get screwed hard on all maps since friday. 

long story short, seems like we didnt get any fight commanders or a lot of players that like to join ts or discord or players who play large scale or small scale or any wvw

 

[IndigoSundown.5419]

7 hours ago, Klendathu.2518 said:

 

I am in an active wvw guild. Just not a large one. We are on our server part of a larger community. A simple network of guilds, commanders and other active players. Right now we endet up in First Haven and its a joke. you offer a tag noone joins, you offer ts or discord and noone joins. 

we get screwed hard on all maps since friday. 

long story short, seems like we didnt get any fight commanders or a lot of players that like to join ts or discord or players who play large scale or small scale or any wvw

 

So you got a bad matchup.  That happens regularly with the server system.  My guild, on a link server rather than a parent server, has often been the only tag on a BL at prime time for the last 2-3 pairings.  If we see another tag, it's either another guild from our home server or an open tag with (if the Commander is lucky) 2-3 people following.  No system is perfect or will be perfect at any given matchup for everyone.  That doesn't mean the system is bad, just that you were unlucky.  As someone who has been unlucky for months on end, I welcome the opportunity to see if the new system, when implemented, is better.

Edited January 15, 2022 by IndigoSundown.5419

[subversiontwo.7501]

10 hours ago, Klendathu.2518 said:

Soooo.... if you didnt make it into one of the large WvW guilds, you just have to live without any leading commanders, without any ts or discord participation and without any kind of structure? Ive played this test for a single night and its actual hell... feels like going from a leading server to the bottom RP trash... do i have to quit my PvE guilds, just to be able to have fun in Wvw? Do i have to delete my personal guild to avoid WvW hell? What the chak was the idea behind this mess?

It's pretty telling what your problem is and what problems you have understanding the changes just by looking at how you talk about it: about leading servers, about leading commanders and so on.

These changes are, to a certain degree, brought about because the mode is losing commanders relative players. They are made to give commanders more tools relative those players and they are made to suggest to those players that they should help out with commanding.

The solution for you, and as you refer to later, your guild is to start commanding. Discord is free, you can start a server today. You already have multiple guilds and if you can afford PvE guilds and personal guilds I'm also sure that you can afford a tag or that someone in your guild can. The other option is to devote yourself to helping someone else lead. Someone else in your guild or another that will then value you and involve you. If you want to be casual or primarily play PvE that is fine too, but you should not just be able to pay your way onto winning servers and gain priority over other players who do more for their tags and groups. If you don't want "trash", your words, don't be it.

In a more abstract sense, the biggest problem WvW has faced over a number of years now is that people have taken things like tags for granted and have lost the perspective that those are also just other players that do things that you can do or help them with. They treat them as something different from themselves, the other, almost NPCs. Beyond simple population balancing and helping groups recruit or organise, I think that is the main thing Alliances may fix.

Also, shout out to Cyninja for a good post.

 

Edited January 15, 2022 by subversiontwo.7501

[Malus.2184]

A thing I'll say. Place "Recommended Languages" labels on the Alliances. Being in an Alliance with people who speak different languages sucks.

I also had a peculiar bug. I was in queue for EBG, got the popup, chose to travel, and was told that the map was full and if I wanted to go into the queue.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Malus.2184

[Vayne.8563]

8 hours ago, Dantana.8510 said:

My wife and I are a duo, now my guild is in Blue, my wife is in Green and I am in Red. WTG ANET!

Did you both check the box in the WvW World Restructing Tab though?

[Custodio.6134]

4 hours ago, Malus.2184 said:

A thing I'll say. Place "Recommended Languages" labels on the Alliances. Being in an Alliance with people who speak different languages sucks.

Iirc languages will be accounted for (at least up to a certain point) in the final system. If that will be in an automated part, of if players will be able to choose is a different thing tho. I´m mainly guessing that, because there was a twitter post that Grouch responded to, where people complained because they got matched with people from like 10 different languages and the whole chat was a mess where nobody understood the other. 

[BadHealer.3608]

10 hours ago, Custodio.6134 said:

they got matched with people from like 10 different languages and the whole chat was a mess where nobody understood the other. 

Yes, sadly there is no way that they found a language that they could all speak. I heard that there are people out there that could speak English.

[Tenga.5867]

it will be a big issue for everyone thats not part of just one main wvw guild dedicated to just one type of playstyle like raiding/zerging/roaming and so on. you have to chose what main activity u wanna do and stick with it, everything besides that will get randomized in terms of players around you. i summed it up in this thread here:
 

 

[Zok.4956]

On 1/15/2022 at 7:58 PM, Malus.2184 said:

Being in an Alliance with people who speak different languages sucks.

Since the start of the server-links most servers right now (before alliance beta) already have players that write in different languages and mostly it works quite well if important info in map/team chat is written (in addition to other languages) also in english. And most teams in the Alliance system will likely also have several languages. Single language servers are a thing of the past.

 

To be placed on a team/server with a lot of different languages would be a good thing, because then, most players would also use english as common ground to communicate important things in addition to other languages.

To be placed on a team/server with only one main language (and all other players only write in that language) that I do not understand, would be much worse.

 

[Klendathu.2518]

 Fells like some ppl cant read. But maybe i phrased it weirdly. 

This is not about success. 

1. We DO Command, we DO put up a tag and we DO offer discord/ts . if someone else is leading we support them. but suddenly all commited players we had are gone. and communications and squads stay empty no matter what we do.

2. We have a lot of people we played with for years. Its IMPOSSIBLE to keep playing with them since they are all part of different guilds, wich has never been a problem since we all played on the same server. 

3. active players WILL get fed up with playing with unorganized randoms and as a result flock to large guilds wich will be the server system all over again. where your ability to even play is determined by whether or not you get matched with one of these guilds.

[Malus.2184]

On 1/17/2022 at 11:36 AM, Zok.4956 said:

To be placed on a team/server with a lot of different languages would be a good thing, because then, most players would also use english as common ground to communicate important things in addition to other languages.

To be placed on a team/server with only one main language (and all other players only write in that language) that I do not understand, would be much worse.

 

It's rare to find someone in France, Germany, and Italy able to to speak English on more than a tourist level. The education-system never really supports it. If it did there would be no need to dub everything.

[Zok.4956]

3 hours ago, Malus.2184 said:

It's rare to find someone in France, Germany, and Italy able to to speak English on more than a tourist level. The education-system never really supports it. If it did there would be no need to dub everything.

Tourist level english is sufficient for WvW. There is no need to discuss Descartes, Machiavelli or Schopenhauer in map or team chat. 😎

[Malus.2184]

I had a commander. I was on Discord, he called for "Smoke" and I was utterly confused until he explained that when he said "Smoke" he meant the Stealth Gyro.

That would never had been able to be communicated if either of us only spoke a tourist leve of English. You seem to misunderstand vastly exactly how bad "tourist" level is. Are you by any chance an English-speaking native?

[BloodRavenz.6084]

On 1/17/2022 at 11:14 AM, Klendathu.2518 said:

 Fells like some ppl cant read. But maybe i phrased it weirdly. 

This is not about success. 

1. We DO Command, we DO put up a tag and we DO offer discord/ts . if someone else is leading we support them. but suddenly all commited players we had are gone. and communications and squads stay empty no matter what we do.

2. We have a lot of people we played with for years. Its IMPOSSIBLE to keep playing with them since they are all part of different guilds, wich has never been a problem since we all played on the same server. 

3. active players WILL get fed up with playing with unorganized randoms and as a result flock to large guilds wich will be the server system all over again. where your ability to even play is determined by whether or not you get matched with one of these guilds.

so why don't you and those committed players form your own alliance so you can stay together, like the "big" guilds did

 

yeah you might not hit the cap of 500 or so players, but that "community" that your concerned about can stay together

 

kind of not seeing what the problem is here unless your seem to think Anet should just do this for you.