WvW alliances is not doing any good.

[reddie.5861]

look im not here to complain for me its kinda good or doesnt matter as i dont play for guilds anymore i just roam solo.

but! u see communities getting ripped apart like for example when i roam (again i dont care in my case but i use it as example) and i have player from guild XYZ next to me i know he sucks and i cant relay on him, but next moment a player from guild ASD joins me and i know he is really good.
see this what a server does, u get to know people even if u dont pay attention to it u still know some people.

now communties have their own commander maybe tagging every morning, people like this and come for this commander and they get their fair share of fun.
or some servers have good open tag commanders during prime time where people like to join in with.
but in reality all these people have no connection with each other so many Pugs (who every1 is bashing all the time but are still the heart beat of WvW) get randomly thrown into servers(cus alliances is doing nothing more then that) and lose their old community their old commanders etc.
then u have commanders who are not really good and they might know it but its fine because they have been tagging for months/years on their own trusted server and people know hes not good be appreciate him cus he doing it.
now this guy might not have the balls to tag for bunch of people he doesnt know cus he might get flamed the kitten out cus hes not as good as other commanders..     

then we have problem with discord as every is using this you need to join a million of servers to join a commander on discord u need million of alt accounts to figure out where the fun is cus youre server might not have any fun go on etc.

i can mention so much stuff why this alliances is a waste of time for anet because all they do is shuffle guilds into random servers every month?? and ruining all communities.

isnt it far easier to grab the monthly AT and daily AT code and make it 15v15 or 20v20 or even increase by +5 up to 50v50 and smash this into some npc put npc in edge of mist and let people sign up for this im pretty sure this is far better and faster and easier to do..
pugs can sign up for random teams (insta lose but w/e) guilds can sign up with squad of X people and go on.
 

and again for people who dont read anything.
i dont care for alliance system i have given up on guild raids etc i just roam on pew pew kitten ranger and perma stealth thief ! so i couldnt give a kitten which server im etc ;).
i give a kitten about keeping WvW active for every1 and not just bunch of try hard guilds who made a alliance to steam roll all other servers while left and right people are quitting cus they are no longer with their old trusted community.

[Dawdler.8521]

19 minutes ago, reddie.5861 said:

but in reality all these people have no connection with each other

Waaaaaat no I'm sure that the roamer I met once and helped kill an enemy with followed by a quick nod before we ran our separate ways is my best friend forever and now its all ruined. RUINED I TELL YOU!

[subversiontwo.7501]

Quote

1. im not here to complain for me its kinda good or doesnt matter as i dont play for guilds anymore
2. now communties have their own commander maybe tagging every morning, people like this and come for this commander and they get their fair share of fun.
3.  Pugs /.../ lose their old community their old commanders etc.
4. isnt it far easier to grab the monthly AT and daily AT code and make it 15v15 or 20v20

Here are two issues with your post that is par for the course with many veiled concerns on the forums during betas:

1. Much of what you describe is no different under the old system or the new system. You may just be less subjected to it at the fringe of your live world compared to your beta world. That changes little for the system as a whole. It may also be a question of that you don't know your own server enough to see what people do to achieve the outcome. You only see the outcome and how it provides for you. Just by your phrasing you are assuming that the commanders somehow belong to the players, taking them for granted and missing the point that the changes in large part is in the interest of those commanders rather than those other players.

2. You are making the mistake of assuming that this is about the guilds and what they do privately. This is more so about the communities and what they do publically. It is just that the common denominator between the two is guilds. The GvG guilds (and others, including spontaneous challenges and public BvB) already do all that on EotM since a couple of years back. Before that they did it in Guild Halls. This has little to do with them in that capacity. This is more about public content shared by guilds and the leaders of them (ie., preorganised public tags).

Adding some talking points to that:

If you are on a server that is relatively healthy now that is all well and good for you but if you are a fringe player on your server you may not know how healthy your server is for the people that provide much of that other content that transpires. There are also a number of other servers where things are not healthy and where matchups are getting increasingly lopsided. So it doesn't matter if your server is healthy if it can't stay healthy, if most other servers are not healthy or if matchups are declining in health.

I can also add the tired old and somewhat dated example of that in EU, my own experience is that while some of the most and least server-oriented communities on servers out there may like to speak about how different they are or may claim to be unconcerned when they do not match up, what I've seen, they are far more similar than they like to admit and they are far more concerned when interlocked. So much of the parading around that we see about it here is usually people sticking their heads in the sand and pretending things are a certain way, until they get hit by reality.

This goes for their matchups with oneanother (opposing servers tend to be seen in different lights when you are unlikely to match up), it goes for their reliance on individuals (public tags) and it goes for how fun they assume a collapse of their organised public groups to be (just roaming, clouding or defending and its part in a matchup).

Edited January 15, 2022 by subversiontwo.7501

[Svarty.8019]

When all the people around me are strangers, I feel less moral compulsion to die trying to rez them.

 

When all the people around me don't communicate on text because they're busy doing guild-only stuff, I lose interest in helping my team.

 

When people around me don't care either, and everybody is just looking for bags and participation, it turns out that for some people Server Pride actually was a bit of a thing after all, and your reputation might have been crap but at least you had  something to hang your hat on.

 

I get the impression that the lack of ANY sense of permanence in the alliance system will lead to a more casual oriented dip-in-dip-out mentality, and orientating the mode towards guilds (who tend to play for short periods) will exacerbate that.

[subversiontwo.7501]

30 minutes ago, Svarty.8019 said:

When all the people around me are strangers, I feel less moral compulsion to die trying to rez them.

 

When all the people around me don't communicate on text because they're busy doing guild-only stuff, I lose interest in helping my team.

 

When people around me don't care either, and everybody is just looking for bags and participation, it turns out that for some people Server Pride actually was a bit of a thing after all, and your reputation might have been crap but at least you had  something to hang your hat on.

 

I get the impression that the lack of ANY sense of permanence in the alliance system will lead to a more casual oriented dip-in-dip-out mentality, and orientating the mode towards guilds (who tend to play for short periods) will exacerbate that.

It is a good thing then, that you have the tools to make sure that 500 people around you are not strangers.

I don't think that there is any dispute over the existance of "pride", I just think people are of differing perspectives on where it comes from, how it permeates and how context-dependent it is.

In the end, it comes down to fears about the unfamiliar, fears about expectancy, experience tied to perspectives and just how open- or closed minded people are.

Without any malice, as I alluded to above, most people I see concerned about Alliances or the Beta also have in common that they lack a deeper understanding about their own server, other servers or the abstraction to the level of game. They tend to be limited to a perspective of themselves, as they are now, and their place on their server.

I think it would be of value to you to recognise some of those things in your own post. If you lose interest when private groups do not communicate with you in text, why do you think they have lost interest in communicating with you in text? If players are invested enough to primarily play WvW with WvW guilds, do you somehow think those players are less prone to play outside of private groups with their guilds? If there are Guilds and Alliances that you worry about why would you assume that there is not ANY permanence in the system, when your issue mainly stems from your own unwillingness to join one? Somehow, if you think about it in earnest, I'm sure you can see some gaps in the logic there. You're being far too presumptive and simplistic about other people's behaviour and variation.

Edited January 16, 2022 by subversiontwo.7501

[gloflop.3510]

According to my prediction, the listed issues will be overcome by creating large guilds. If there is a commander who likes tagging every morning, he only needs to create a guild and say "if you want to continue following me in the new system, join my guild and choose it as your WvW guild". The same is true for prime time commanders or "not so good commanders who want to keep a stable group around them".

Please do not misunderstand me. I agree with you that there are other issues which should require more attention from the devs than alliances but I would like to give alliances a realistic chance. The beta tests so far are in my eyes far away from the final version. As an example, I do not see any kind of balancing mechanism beside the number of playing hours. Anet could e.g. take the hours commanding by one alliance into account and use it as a further variable for world-balancing. Therefore, my opinion is that we should not make quick judgements yet and wait for a more final version of the new system.

[reddie.5861]

for me alliances is nothing more then having free server transfers. i have 4 accounts i split them over servers so joy for me is always somewhere.
 

but then again let say i make kitten alliance and im losing i just go on one of my alt accounts recruit some proper people add them to my blob alliance and look at me the next match up i pulled more people into my server while pushing out "pugs" (which is fine by me). but what has changed now? or u ask bunch of people to transfer for example to desolation to blob living kitten out of everything untill u reach T1 and get bored and people shatter over all servers again (free income for anet cus we need pay for transfers)
or the way i mention by just inviting people to my blob alliance (no income for anet) and blob my way up.

only thing that has changed is that communities do not excist anymore.

one way or another u knew people from your server. now u get thrown into new people every month? making communities impossible unless u wannabe one of these elitist people and joy one of these kitten blob alliances and think u won in this kind of dead gamemode which is getting even more dead when alliances go live 😛 but w/e..


i see people think differently about this and im in no way saying gw2 is a bad game. infact i think gw2 among better mmo's out there nowadays but this update is horrible just like desert BL was horrible its now almost never used only in rare cases people go there else they avoid it like a plague.

[physmat.8219]

12 hours ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

Here are two issues with your post that is par for the course with many veiled concerns on the forums during betas:

1. Much of what you describe is no different under the old system or the new system. You may just be less subjected to it at the fringe of your live world compared to your beta world. That changes little for the system as a whole. It may also be a question of that you don't know your own server enough to see what people do to achieve the outcome. You only see the outcome and how it provides for you. Just by your phrasing you are assuming that the commanders somehow belong to the players, taking them for granted and missing the point that the changes in large part is in the interest of those commanders rather than those other players.

2. You are making the mistake of assuming that this is about the guilds and what they do privately. This is more so about the communities and what they do publically. It is just that the common denominator between the two is guilds. The GvG guilds (and others, including spontaneous challenges and public BvB) already do all that on EotM since a couple of years back. Before that they did it in Guild Halls. This has little to do with them in that capacity. This is more about public content shared by guilds and the leaders of them (ie., preorganised public tags).

Adding some talking points to that:

If you are on a server that is relatively healthy now that is all well and good for you but if you are a fringe player on your server you may not know how healthy your server is for the people that provide much of that other content that transpires. There are also a number of other servers where things are not healthy and where matchups are getting increasingly lopsided. So it doesn't matter if your server is healthy if it can't stay healthy, if most other servers are not healthy or if matchups are declining in health.

I can also add the tired old and somewhat dated example of that in EU, my own experience is that while some of the most and least server-oriented communities on servers out there may like to speak about how different they are or may claim to be unconcerned when they do not match up, what I've seen, they are far more similar than they like to admit and they are far more concerned when interlocked. So much of the parading around that we see about it here is usually people sticking their heads in the sand and pretending things are a certain way, until they get hit by reality.

This goes for their matchups with oneanother (opposing servers tend to be seen in different lights when you are unlikely to match up), it goes for their reliance on individuals (public tags) and it goes for how fun they assume a collapse of their organised public groups to be (just roaming, clouding or defending and its part in a matchup).

Masterclass in how to sound smart and churn out hundreds of words while the gist could be adequately conveyed in less than 1 paragraph. 

[HitmanHaydon.1053]

Maybe its just the alliance that I'm part of, but this is the least fun I've ever had in WvW.

No one is helping each other, just toxic rubbish in chat when you ask for help.

Perhaps they just put all tyhe trolls in one place 😄

[Aeolus.3615]

21 minutes ago, HitmanHaydon.1053 said:

Maybe its just the alliance that I'm part of, but this is the least fun I've ever had in WvW.

No one is helping each other, just toxic rubbish in chat when you ask for help.

Perhaps they just put all tyhe trolls in one place 😄

So far i havent seen toxicity but quite some  servers are having the same issue, fighting servers that have almost constant large groups to a blob in each maps while they have 20-30 players, more outmaned icon duration than players to fight, it is like Anet is testing to make servers fights based on population while the mminor server is just there to cap and create content to the zerg...  this would be pure low IQ gamemode(most wvw players would love that lol... would be balanced for them).

Some servers with lot of population not all are organized guilds some are just randomers at least my experience is mass random tags but lots of them.

 

I am super curious what is this beta testing objective, cause the 1st one was really nice for most, or maybe we player need to wait a few more days and see how population will rise and go over the week before star spamming "HEY U ANET WHY"?

 

Note: similiar  scores or pkpt means nothing if its ktrain timezones and all fights are one sided depending wich server is ktraining.

Yesterday was completely outmanned in all maps, and now im on the blob side w/o fights ktraining everything... so far if this continue during the week its idiotic at minimal :) 1/0

Edited January 16, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[HitmanHaydon.1053]

I've got to find a guild before the xpac comes out, if I have to play in this alliance again I'll quit the game.

It's bloody awful, no guilds, no one helping each other, I've given up until next week.

[Mabi black.1824]

in fact even if I am in a small alliance I must say that if I look around I do not see players familiar to me.

I am also part of a team that I do not know, and does not give me any stimulus to get busy.

any update for wvw is to my liking. but maybe something here actually doesn't work.

[reddie.5861]

On 1/16/2022 at 5:44 PM, HitmanHaydon.1053 said:

I've got to find a guild before the xpac comes out, if I have to play in this alliance again I'll quit the game.

It's bloody awful, no guilds, no one helping each other, I've given up until next week.

well this is my point kinda.. so what if some people dont wanna play with a  guild they get this awful play experience new players get to see this, even if some guilds like this system you just know u tighten the robe around ur neck.. gonna be a matter of time untill WvW is gonna start bleeding faster.

most people dont seem to realise that its not guilds keeping this game mode alive its largely the random pugs storming around at any given hour.. ofcourse they can still do this but like said

 

On 1/17/2022 at 2:06 PM, Mabi black.1824 said:

in fact even if I am in a small alliance I must say that if I look around I do not see players familiar to me.

I am also part of a team that I do not know, and does not give me any stimulus to get busy.

any update for wvw is to my liking. but maybe something here actually doesn't work.

i feel like this also i cant even be arsed to play i will bugger off to sPvP if this system goes live.

system as it is now is just taking all players mix them up slam them on a random name server and play for a month.
how is that better then when u can do ur own match fixing or manipulate ur match trying to get next week best match up for your server, or u simply buy server transfer like many do.

so ye one way or another i dont see this system as an improvement neither its for anet cus why would u buy server transfer when u can just join a guild and get sucked towards their server or just buy 2 accounts and u get to choose a server every month if u dont play 1 account in WvW so when u get placed in kitten server u login other account choose server u wannabe in and next month u login other account again and u get to choose again which server..

system is dumb and useless it brings nothing new to WvW, beside ripping apart small communities that never said a kitten to each other but u still regonize them when running around on ur good old server.

[kash.9213]

12 minutes ago, reddie.5861 said:

well this is my point kinda.. so what if some people dont wanna play with a  guild they get this awful play experience new players get to see this, even if some guilds like this system you just know u tighten the robe around ur neck.. gonna be a matter of time untill WvW is gonna start bleeding faster.

most people dont seem to realise that its not guilds keeping this game mode alive its largely the random pugs storming around at any given hour.. ofcourse they can still do this but like said

 

i feel like this also i cant even be arsed to play i will bugger off to sPvP if this system goes live.

system as it is now is just taking all players mix them up slam them on a random name server and play for a month.
how is that better [1] then when u can do ur own match fixing or manipulate ur match trying to get next week best match up for your server, [2] or u simply buy server transfer like many do.

so ye one way or another i dont see this system as an improvement neither its for anet cus why would u buy server transfer when u can just join a guild and get sucked towards their server or just buy 2 accounts and u get to choose a server every month if u dont play 1 account in WvW so when u get placed in kitten server u login other account choose server u wannabe in and next month u login other account again and u get to choose again which server..

system is dumb and useless it brings nothing new to WvW, beside ripping apart small communities that never said a kitten to each other but u still regonize them when running around on ur good old server.

[1] I landed on a team that still managed to stack pretty well. There's nothing really to do this match up except try to catch a body running from spawn or keep before our marauding blob inhales them. 

[2] Maybe they wont have to pay Anet anymore and can just pay a guild/alliance leader for a seat on the next match.