Make next elite spec a summoner spec like necro minions

[Adrianna.3092]

I was thinking that the next mesmer spec should be a more summon themed spec... giving up clones as a deceptive tool and more creating horrific nightmare monsters (similar to the hallucination effect from pve) causing fear and chaos thru summoning monsters to cause damage instead of deceive...

 

Basically instead of using clones to deceive they will summon nightmares that cause damage and possibly fear...  They would also become the only other class besides necro to have minion skills as their utility skills... they would be more powerful than the minion skills currently are... however they would come at a cost... the minions themselves would not be killable as they are just illusions... instead whenever the minions take damage you receive a portion of that damage yourself... to make up for this the minions would have more offensive power...

 

Obviously any of this could be changed... I mostly just want the theme of conjuring the enemies worst nightmare to use against them... that is a theme the mesmer doesn't currently have and would be a mix of both mesmer and necro styles (illusions of mesmer and fear of necro)

 

basically the idea is basically the opposite of necro (making disposable summons to use as shields that can take conditions from you with the traits and boosting your defense thru traits) to the mesmer being more offensive and sacrificing defense for more offensive power...

 

as for the class mechanic... I was thinking a sorta play on "illusion of pain" from gw 1... where they could recover a portion of the damage they took (to make up for them taking damage when their nightmares do) but im not entirely sure how to best do that.

Edited January 16, 2022 by Adrianna.3092

[Justine.6351]

 Remember in guild wars 1 I wanted to play mesmer for conjure phantasm for a shade type summon. Imagine my disappointment when it was one of the worst hexes in the game for pve.

 

I think you might enjoy playing some renegade. Darkrazor and Icerazor are hilariously strong compared to mesmer phantasms.

[Adrianna.3092]

7 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

 Remember in guild wars 1 I wanted to play mesmer for conjure phantasm for a shade type summon. Imagine my disappointment when it was one of the worst hexes in the game for pve.

 

I think you might enjoy playing some renegade. Darkrazor and Icerazor are hilariously strong compared to mesmer phantasms.

yeah... but... doesn't really have the same feel summoning a bunch of charr vs summoning nightmares and illusions of monsters (something the mesmer should be able to do... all the npcs do it to some degree)... hell there is even an entire event chain with kasmeer summoning illusionary monsters to help the cubs train... meanwhile player mesmers can only summon illusions of themselves

[Alpha.1308]

5 hours ago, Adrianna.3092 said:

something the mesmer should be able to do

that's like when Mirage launched, i was playing through PoF, and immediately noticed the Iboga's using exactly the kind of "mirages" we should have had, and instantly took to the forums despite knowing it's dead air where the devs don't actually care:

 

a completely random NPC mob using actual hallucinations, basically, guardian spirit weapons, it's a better mirage than we are

 

but, nope 

we got core shatters and an entire bar of absolutely worthless utility skills for each and every single game mode type in this entire game, that haven't been touched since its launch

and to fix the spec, it gets an absolutely asinine, totally random, completely out of no where, alacrity/might on staff ambush as a band-aid to actually be brought in a group so they can pretend that they actually did something with the game, despite it having literally nothing even close to being thematic about it, and the only thing to even compliment or synergize with it is a core mesmer line, chaos, and even then, barely 

(condi damage/duration and boon duration... woowowwieeee wow very well-thought-out)

 

literally 0 faith in these devs 

expect if we actually get a summoning spec, it'll be worthless for anything that isn't "look at me take down a champion by myself in open world pve"

in pve, i have high doubts they want minions to offer much damage for higher-end-raiding or deep fractal pushing or whatever else this games pve involves, otherwise they'd of kept phantasms permanent for pve, or even had the single-use-into-clone a trait, or vice-versa 

and this games pvp just doesn't work well with pets, as almost everything, due to the targeting system and how the combat is set up, is a cleave, meaning they would have to be stronger, but strong pvp pets means low tiers will heavily complain about a set it and forget it spank class

Edited January 16, 2022 by Alpha.1308

[SeTect.5918]

Please stop with minion e specs. It does not and will never work in gw2. Except if you want to play wvw (roaming only) and open world pve. 

 

I mean a summoner spec would be nice, if you want:

-to get kicked out of every fractal group

-to get kicked out of every raid group

-to get kicked out of every strike group

-to get kicked out of wvw zergs

-to get constantly nerfed in pvp and wvw

So if you want this....gg.

Edited January 17, 2022 by SeTect.5918

[Justine.6351]

11 hours ago, SeTect.5918 said:

Please stop with minion e specs. It does not and will never work in gw2. Except if you want to play wvw (roaming only) and open world pve. 

 

I mean a summoner spec would nice, if you want:

-to get kicked out of every fractal group

-to get kicked out of every raid group

-to get kicked out of every strike group

-to get kicked out of wvw zergs

-to get constantly nerfed in pvp and wvw

So if you want this....gg.

Rofl yeah sadly. Are kalla summons used in those?

[FarmBotXD.1430]

2 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

Rofl yeah sadly. Are kalla summons used in those?

kalla summons are glorified pulsing aoe fields
they dont feel like summons at all

[SeTect.5918]

2 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

Rofl yeah sadly. Are kalla summons used in those?

Yea, Kalla summons are, as @FarmBotXD.1430already stated, like pulsing aoe fields. They work like wells/gyros basically. Same for engineer turrets.

Illusions are also fine because you only summon them for their attack which will instantly cast after you summoned them. After they disappear again.
-> or better, they disappear and turn into clones. Clones are also fine because they deal 0 dmg anyway (except on condi) so you just use them for shatters.

Then we come to mechanist. I am unsure about this tbh.
On one hand Mechanist has AI.
On the other hand you have f1-f4 which are there to let the mech cast special attacks. On condi for example, most attacks will come from these skills. So you have stuff to control the mech.

So it will also most likely get an "okay, come in" in grp content. Tho 1 problem is maybe still there. Mech eats boons. So boons that would have gone to 1 player instead, go to the mech.

However with something like a summoner spec like the OP stated, you have multiple minions and you wont be able to constantly control them. Its far easier with 1 pet/mech than with...4-5.

Not that I wouldnt like a proper summoner spec, but it really doesnt work well in gw2...sadly. And gets nerfed to hell in pvp/wvw.

[Zenith.7301]

Necro minions are a steaming pile of weak garbage that has never been used outside open world PvE where you can run anything because it's brain dead content.

 

Why would mesmers want a failed mechanic? It's obvious Anet doesn't bother to do pets right, Ranger's best spec is the spec that makes their pet go away for a stat boost instead.

[Justine.6351]

7 hours ago, Zenith.7301 said:

Necro minions are a steaming pile of weak garbage that has never been used outside open world PvE where you can run anything because it's brain dead content.

 

Why would mesmers want a failed mechanic? It's obvious Anet doesn't bother to do pets right, Ranger's best spec is the spec that makes their pet go away for a stat boost instead.

People have used minion builds in wvw/spvp.

[Zenith.7301]

4 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

People have used minion builds in wvw/spvp.

Complete meme builds with no staying power in the meta for any meaningful amount of time, for the simple fact pet scaling is garbage, as pets don't scale with % throughput traits, stat increases from auras or ascended upgrades in weapon damage and stat coefficients vs. exotic, don't scale with sharpening stones/tuning crystals, rune bonuses, sigil bonuses, or food for that matter. On top of their horrible pathing and AI (ranged pets won't shoot up or down from castle walls in WvW, for example), limited cleaving capacity (most pets don't even cleave, and the few that do cleave 3 targets vs the 5 of most greatsword, hammer, and staff skills).

 

There's a reason why before soulbeast the only meta ranger DPS builds were condi, because condi weapons did not pay a pet tax in coefficients on the conditions vs. the abysmal power coefficients on ranger power weapons and the fact the pets do such minuscule DPS amounts (3-4k DPS of the total ranger DPS  with Iboga, far less with every other pet) because of their abysmal scaling and lack of reliability in landing hits against moving targets as they animation lock when doing an autoattack and root themselves in place, so any target with swiftness will walk out of the attack long before it connects.

 

Guardian spirit weapons only became relevant when they ceased being like necro minions, which are worthless, and were turned into the equivalent of the updated mesmer phantasms, but as utility skills instead of weaponskills.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Zenith.7301

[Levetty.1279]

Minion builds don't stay around in PvP because PvP players throw a tantrum every time AI comes anywhere near their mode because they can't adapt. It has what caused 99% of the whines about Mesmer in PvP.

[Salt Mode.3780]

what the actual hell are people talking about lol

MM scourge was insanely strong and had been nerfed several times....

[Mik.3401]

I think the minion idea is interesting bit unfortunately kind of unhealtjy for the competitive mode.

Still the monster phantasms would be great. We still don’t have an elite phantasm Skill for instance. It could be implemented in so many fun ways e.g.

- replace the core phantasms with monster phantasms dealing more damage , reduce the dps of weapon skills or lower the health pool to 11k

- other idea could be sort of a Mesmer-soul best merging with its phantasms

Of course such ideas may not always make sense but I think this is an exciting concept. 

[Adrianna.3092]

2 hours ago, Mik.3401 said:

I think the minion idea is interesting bit unfortunately kind of unhealtjy for the competitive mode.

Still the monster phantasms would be great. We still don’t have an elite phantasm Skill for instance. It could be implemented in so many fun ways e.g.

- replace the core phantasms with monster phantasms dealing more damage , reduce the dps of weapon skills or lower the health pool to 11k

- other idea could be sort of a Mesmer-soul best merging with its phantasms

Of course such ideas may not always make sense but I think this is an exciting concept. 

I honestly just think it would be very thematically interesting for a mesmer to summon monster illusions over the clones (like kasmeer does in that event)... far more interesting than copies of you... or purple copies of you in the case of phantasms.

[Mik.3401]

18 hours ago, Adrianna.3092 said:

I honestly just think it would be very thematically interesting for a mesmer to summon monster illusions over the clones (like kasmeer does in that event)... far more interesting than copies of you... or purple copies of you in the case of phantasms.

I agree 100% this is what the Mesmer is supposed to be. The GW1 Mesmer was capable sending disturbing visions etc. it’s a pity in GW2 it is just a clone guy and that’s it

[Salt Mode.3780]

Can we just have iboga's hallucination effect it will be more effective then any clone or monster that serves as a "distraction".

Even a open world mob is more effective at confusing and debilitating enemies then Mesmers.

[Dadnir.5038]

12 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Can we just have iboga's hallucination effect it will be more effective then any clone or monster that serves as a "distraction".

Even a open world mob is more effective at confusing and debilitating enemies then Mesmers.

Or... You could have a spec that "capture" the same pets as ranger and have an F5 that summon a fantasm of a chosen pet...

The thing could just appear to launch it's F2 skills (Yeah some skills wouldn't be very useful, like jaguar's stalk, but there are plenty that would be quite nice...)

NB.: I was just saying that for fun at first, but I'm even starting to find the idea attractive...

[piitb.7635]

Or it could just convert phantasms into what demons are.

 

Then you're decision tree would be what phantasms you roll with in your utility slots and we get a couple new phantasms that fill certain archetypes.