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Ok, so a Guardian and a Warrior walk into bar..... (a PVE bar of course)


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Which fell down first?  😉

Meaning, of the two, lets say a Fb and a Berzerk, which "stands" a better chance of not doing the down state dance or screaming "A little help here" ??? I know I should probably play them  side by side and see for my self but to be honest I just cant bother and also where is the fun it that, would rather hear what others have had to deal with, so maybe someone else has tested them out, in Open World PVE, ya know, world bosses, metas and the like.

And if so, what are your thoughts and \or opinions on each of the classes. I know FB \DH can be squishy what with one of the lowest health pools (Guardian....haha, of what with that health) but also from my experience Warrior can be just as bad, with loads more health. Yes, some of it can come down to a learn to play issue on my part but kitten just running around the Desert or Jungle I shouldnt be downed by some silly lizard or land sharks!! (see Saturday Night Live for that one).

Anyways, in my head a Warrior should be a John Wick sort of dude, rush in and smash while a Guardian should be like Bond....cool, smooth yet can get it done if need be!

So yea, enlighten or just entertain me with your thoughts on these supposedly tuff as nails type Classes that for some reason seem more like tough as toilet paper??  😉

 

(again, talking PVE here)

Edited by Joxer.6024
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  • Joxer.6024 changed the title to Ok, so a Guardian and a Warrior walk into bar..... (a PVE bar of course)

Every professions and e-specs are equal in the bar.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Belcher's_Bluff

 

Anyway, for open PvE, what matter isn't your profession but your knowledge of the environment (mobs patern, terrain... etc.) and of the the limits of your current builds. You can get floored as FB just as fast as a berzerker just like you can unearth surprising amount of survivability and damage if you play them properly within an environment you know well.

All in all, it's just a matter of personal skill and the amount of knowledge you have. To take extrem example, someone that play a full survivability build necromancer can get eaten in second by a pack of pocket raptors in the HoT map while another player playing a glass staff elementalist will face the same encounter and pass the ordeal unscathed. In one case the necromancer didn't know what he was facing and was overconfident in it's high amount of health point. The elementalist knew well of the pocket raptors' and exploited is high damage output, aoe capability and the retreat from fire staff to just wipe out the pack of raptors before they reached him.

 

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As far as I understand berserker takes increased damage when enraged. So likely core warrior or spellbreaker will be better at soloing. 

Firebrand if it doesn't use defensives properly goes splat very quickly. But can output alot of aegis and healing in itself. 

I've played both and found them both decent but neither extraordinary they both went splat quite a few times on some of the HoT HPs. 

Renegade and necromancer are the 2 winners when it comes to open world soloing. Every proffession can get the job done on the grand scheme of things but these 2 can solo things that are otherwise not rly soloable 

These builds also typically have the highest solo DPS avaliable which makes killing things faster 

Edited by Daddy.8125
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You can build a high toughness berserker that still gets 3000 power (thanks to might/crits/traits). It's not the most efficient killer, but I've still soloed dungeons with it fairly comfortably.

Overall FB just has more tools to deal with more threats. Thanks to tomes, FB is more flexible when it comes to wide area killing (F1 tomes), emergency heals and cleanses (F2), and finally projectile hate and farting out various other supportive boons (F3). Mantras are also pretty easy to use, and the ammo system lets you space out the mantras' effects and boons pretty easily. Just overall more and easier-to-use options.

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I personally end up downed most on my Berserker, Firebrand and Weaver out of all professions. They can all output a lot of damage, but I find it easy to get overextended, so to speak, with all of them. I’ll be going along great, but when I get into trouble it happens fast, and is hard to recover in time.

My Mirage, Holosmith, Soulbeast, Daredevil, Deadeye and Renegade all have a bigger margin for error and are less likely to be downed.

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At the end of the day like others said it comes down to knowing the encounter, also your classes build plays a huge roll in that. When I solo content on my warrior that I'm not supposed to solo (fractals, dungeons, champ events, etc.) I'm not taking my berserker setup, I'm taking my spellbreaker since it has better survivability and self support while still being in glassy gear with a build I call the lazy warrior. I'm not saying you can't solo content on a berserker (you just gotta know the content more intimately).

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3 hours ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

You can build a high toughness berserker that still gets 3000 power (thanks to might/crits/traits). It's not the most efficient killer, but I've still soloed dungeons with it fairly comfortably.

Overall FB just has more tools to deal with more threats. Thanks to tomes, FB is more flexible when it comes to wide area killing (F1 tomes), emergency heals and cleanses (F2), and finally projectile hate and farting out various other supportive boons (F3). Mantras are also pretty easy to use, and the ammo system lets you space out the mantras' effects and boons pretty easily. Just overall more and easier-to-use options.

You can build a high toughness Berserker with 5k power: But why would you?

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Guardian is like Bond. He has many tools in his sleeves for all ocasions. But if he doesn't use them properly he will go splat fast. He is one of the 3 classes with lowerst hp.

Warrior is inherently sturdy. I don't know what people play when they say he ain't. So in instances where you have other people caring for your butt and mostly all stack together, he is very comfortable due to high inherent defenses and health pool. But he is a bit slow and clunky by himself and has to mostly stay in melee. But I have a few fun open world builds for warrior that are cake walk (core or spellbreaker though). Many passive defenses and healing and you can just ignore many of the enemy mechanics.  The only thing I don't like about my warrior is that I got bored of him.

Also revenant comes into a bar and just cleans the tables with both of them.

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So a Guardian and a Warrior walk into bar. The guardian orders a vodka tonic, the warrior gets a glass of moonshine and injects it directly into his veins. The Guardian, glass half full and drunk off his kitten, tries to punch warrior. His flimsy virtues left him 3 sips ago, such is the fate of foolish things. The Warrior is puzzled why this stranger wants to fight. Of course, Warrior is always down to kick some nuts and sever some spines.

Feeling a little loosened up from his third gallon of moonshine, Warrior decides to see what this Guardian can do. Punch. Kick. Great sword swing. Not bad. Not great, but better than almost all other classes. As a sign of respect, Warrior decides he will not pull his punch. He ducks a left hook and comes in with a full force uopercut on the chin of the Guardian. The awful crack of bone breaking, the deafening shockwave of Warrior’s fist going supersonic, the shattering of the roof’s wooden boards as guardian is launched into the ionosphere. 

Warrior grabs the glass of vodka tonic the Guardian had yet to finish, downed it in one go, grabs his wolf mantle, slings it around his shoulders, and walks out the door into the chilly night air. As the door begins to shut, guardian can be seen breaking a new hole in the roof and falling to the floor. His soul can be seen departing from his lifeless body with a 7” fist mark imprint, an all too commonly seen mark in the halls of Valhalla.

Edited by oscuro.9720
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It depends on what you are going for. Pure dps builds favor guardian, due to aegis and fast cast + strong heals. However, if solo open world, SB would be the strongest and berserk the weakest, with everything else falling some where in between. 
 

Overall, IMO guardian is one of the best classes in PvE, while warrior is one of the worst.

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I know this joke the guardian will only drink if its free (guardian is very boring class to play and ppl only play it if anet gives them a free ride of being op just because) the warrior is kicked out or has to pay for the guardian drinks (because they are not part of the meta.)

I guess the real joke is anet balancing.

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The survivability of your class is influenced by your personal preference of damage. Most players aim for high damage output. So whenever there are options to go either for sustain or strength, they always pick strength. When the glasscannon-build they have picked however fails to survive against anything but a locked-in-position golem that does not hit back, that build only works in presence of a team. For group-content, that is totally fine.

'Open World works with everything' - probably the most common phrase on this board. It is absolutely correct, IF you know what you are doing. If you are not an expert in the class you play and the content, that rule does not apply. Spending most of the time on the ground, sprinkling the lawn does not count as "working." At least for me. 

If you are willing to pick non-dps options, Warrior outclasses Guardian in my opinion. It has a lot of sustain, stun-breakers, auto-cleanses and passive recovery. It does lose outgoing damage if you pick those options, but not as drastically as other classes. When you do the same with the Guardian, you often end up with a support and/or heal-build. That is sort of acceptable for Open World (because everything works), but you waste potential as long as you are walking alone.

Note: There probably exists footage of people playing Guardian, soloing Heart of Thorns. But those are expert players. They can break the Avatar of Balthazar (AB) with a broken toothstick, wearing a blindfold. That sure is impressive, but does not prove the Guardian to be beginner friendly.  

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'Open world works with everything' is a line usually used by people who pride themselves in mainly playing something else and often hold contempt for people who primarily play ungrouped PvE content. It's not entirely wrong, but as I've said in another subforum, there is a vast difference between 'if you find a big enough zerg it will carry you' and 'soloes legendaries'.

 

It's easy to overestimate the effects of armour and health. I think I calculated that the difference between a light and heavy armour profession is about 10% reduction of incoming power damage. Meanwhile, survivability in most PvE encounters that last for more than a few seconds is a function of whether the total damage received (after steps taken in damage mitigation) is greater or less than health recovery. Higher health gives you more leeway in absorbing spikes and more time to respond (or just kill some enemies) if the ratio goes above 1 briefly, but ultimately if that ratio is less than 1 and you don't get spiked down you'll survive indefinitely, while if it stays above 1 for long enough, you will eventually get worn down, and a higher starting health just delays the inevitable.

 

In this context, most guardian builds have more mitigation and healing than most warrior builds, so as long as they block or dodge the big hits, guardians can often outlast warriors. Many warrior builds, on the other hand, can lull you into a false sense of security because they have a lot of passive sustain, so you may find yourself breezing through content because the ratio is naturally below 1, but when you bite off more than you can chew and that ratio climbs above 1, you might find that you have nothing left in reserve to bring it back down and you'll eventually get worn down.

 

Spellbreaker definitely helps to avoid this, mind you, and it does depend on build. But there is a degree to which low-health professions can be better at surviving because what they received in exchange for lower base health was better damage mitigation and self-healing.

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Firebrand excels at concentrating enemies into a tight "kill box" and then blowing them up with fast-acting condition damage. You also have copious tools for negating enemy mechanics. Full Viper doesn't leave that much margin for error but you're free to run Celestial gear instead (3k armor and 18k hp / 20k hp with Balthazar runes, and extends the duration of all your Might, Protection, and Quickness) in open world if you want. Tome #1 is absurdly good in OW because you've almost always got some trash mobs around to reset it again and again and again during battles.

You can make some extremely tanky champion-killer Warrior builds but they tend to impose very tight playstyle constraints (like Cavalier/Valkyrie + Sigil of Vision build you'll see Lord Hizen playing — you really have to pay attention to your "rotation"  because you only have a narrow window where you do your big damage). But for most normal stuff you'll have more fun just playing with Marauder gear or whatever.  Also: the Condi Berserker builds just aren't very good, imo.

And honestly there are a lot of encounters where a Thief with Invigorating Precision can probably outlast both of these classes. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited by ASP.8093
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