Pistol/Pistol rework suggestion + supporting trait rework suggestion.

[Yasai.3549]

Just throwing out this idea for a P/P rework. 

MH Pistol

Skill 1 Attack Chain, Scrap shot

- 600 ranged shotgun spread

- Inflicts Bleeding, inflicts more stacks of Bleeding the closer the target is to you. (2 Stacks at 300 Range, 1 Stack at 600 Range) 

- hits 3 targets in a cone (Main target + 2 other)

 

Skill 2 Toxic shells

- Buffs next 5 attacks 

- Inflicts 2 stacks of Poison per attack

- can be applied by any attack originating from the player (no turrets or summons) 

- 2 Ammo 

 

Skill 3 Dazzle Dust

- 900 Range 

- Inflicts 1 stack Confusion

- Hits target and explodes, inflicting Blindness and 2 stacks Confusion in a 240 AoE (5 targets)

- 2 Ammo 

 

OH Pistol

Skill 4 Sticky shell

- 900 range

- hits the target and explodes, inflicting Immobilize 

- Cripples 5 targets in 240 AoE 

- 2 Ammo 

 

Skill 5 Hellfire shell 

- Buffs next Scrap shot 

- Inflicts 4 stacks of Burning for 6s within 300 Range, 4 stacks of Burning for 3s at 600 Range

- Unblockable

- Immune to Blind 

 

Trait : Chemical Rounds

Gain Expertise every time you cast a Pistol skill. (Up to 10 stacks, 15 Expertise per stack)
Casting a Toolbelt skill refreshes 1 Ammo at random. 

 

 

Edited January 18 by Yasai.3549

[The Boz.2038]

Don't tie unrelated weapons together.

[SeTect.5918]

You rework pistol and didn't remove glue shot? Why r skill 4 and 5 swapped?

Auto attack seems better than skill 3 and ur New glue shot. Imo that changed nearly nothing. 

You will still do skill 2, reworked blowtorch and maybe skill 3, rest is unused bc of kits. Nothing really changed in gameplay. 

Skill 1 doesn't need more bleed, it just needs aoe bleed. Skill 2 just has to be faster. Skill 3 is fine, maybe 1-2 more confusion stacks pve. Blowtorch needs to be able to hit enemies above and under u. Glue shot has to get cripple replaced with slow and maybe pulsing poison. 

Thats basically all that pistol needs. 

And please no shotgun auto attack. Rifle as shotgun, nice. pistol as shotgun, not nice.

Edited January 18 by SeTect.5918

[schloumou.3982]

5 hours ago, SeTect.5918 said:

Blowtorch needs to be able to hit enemies above and under u. Glue shot has to get cripple replaced with slow and maybe pulsing poison. 

Maybe change Glueshot and Blowtorch functionality. Make Gs a point blank on target projectile with longer root or slow and Bt a Circle Aoe with a firefield or something we can interact with. Its weird that we don't have any fields on weapons anyway as the supposed multitool prof.

Edited January 18 by schloumou.3982

[Shroud.2307]

I would prefer that only Glue Shot and Blowtorch get reworked.

I always thought it would be cool if Blowtorch became like napalm. Make it an Explosion (AOE), and if you hit someone with it below 300 range it will stack intensity. Ie. It initially hits with 1 Burn, but every second the target doesn't cleanse it it increases the stack by 1 until it wears off. 

Also for Glue Shot, it could be Immobilize at the first hit and pulse, then second pulse Slow, then third Cripple. The nice thing about a skill(s) that pulse like this is it makes it very good as a cover Condition skill because you have to wait until it ends to remove it unless you want to be hit by the next pulse.

[Stx.4857]

Offhand Pistol seems pretty good to me.  Blowtorch does a ton of condi damage, and glue shot is fantastic for kiting and for break bar damage.

 

Mainhand Pistol on the other hand feels very undertuned compared to most other classes weapons.  The auto attack should do more power damage.  The #2 does okay condi damage but the power damage is weak and its kind of a long cast for doing nothing but condi.  #3 is a really cool looking and sounding skill but again it needs something more...   a power damage bump, or 1 additional condi attached to go with the confusion.

[Matoro.9708]

I personally love the concept you've come up with and it feels very in theme with core engi mechanically. Neat idea to have abilities modify the auto.

[Yasai.3549]

8 hours ago, schloumou.3982 said:

Maybe change Glueshot and Blowtorch functionality. Make Gs a point blank on target projectile with longer root or slow and Bt a Circle Aoe with a firefield or something we can interact with. Its weird that we don't have any fields on weapons anyway as the supposed multitool prof.

I think he just didn't read the post.

My suggestion for Glue shot is literally turn it into a projectile hit so it's not AoE targeted.

 

So you shoot it and it will 100% Immob the first target it hits and then it Cripples everyone else.

 

No slowing field. Just straight damage, immob, cripple.

[Yasai.3549]

5 hours ago, Stx.4857 said:

Offhand Pistol seems pretty good to me.  Blowtorch does a ton of condi damage, and glue shot is fantastic for kiting and for break bar damage.

 

Mainhand Pistol on the other hand feels very undertuned compared to most other classes weapons.  The auto attack should do more power damage.  The #2 does okay condi damage but the power damage is weak and its kind of a long cast for doing nothing but condi.  #3 is a really cool looking and sounding skill but again it needs something more...   a power damage bump, or 1 additional condi attached to go with the confusion.

The entire idea of my suggestion is push Pistols into a closer range than before, but up its lethality.

 

I'm actually thinking maybe it'll be better to have a Dragon Claw style auto instead, where it shoots like 3-5 shots in a go in a static spread and if you are closer, more hits hit the target resulting in more Power and Bleed stacks 

[Yasai.3549]

14 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Don't tie unrelated weapons together.

They're both Pistols, they both share the same benefits of a single Trait, they both feature Conditions heavily and they both do somewhat mediocre Power damage.

 

I'll say they are pretty related to one another.

[rrusse.7058]

I like the sound of Skill 3 Dazzle Dust. The skill as it is now is already fairly strong but the effectiveness depends entirely on the number of targets you're shooting at.

17 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Skill 3 Dazzle Dust

- 900 Range 

- Inflicts 1 stack Confusion

- Hits target and explodes, inflicting Blindness and 2 stacks Confusion in a 240 AoE (5 targets)

- 2 Ammo 

Here there is at least some interesting interaction that enemy players can try to pay attention to rather than what we have now and it just bounces off of you a stacks confusion based on the bounces and nunber of enemies/allies near the target.

It at least punishes standing too close together in a more balanced way if that makes sense.

[Yasai.3549]

3 hours ago, rrusse.7058 said:

Here there is at least some interesting interaction that enemy players can try to pay attention to rather than what we have now and it just bounces off of you a stacks confusion based on the bounces and nunber of enemies/allies near the target.

It at least punishes standing too close together in a more balanced way if that makes sense.

I intended this change more as a way for P/P get more bang for buck with Skill 3 without needing to bounce. I mean sure, all the skills of current P/P could be improved just by adding an ammo system, but that's too boring. 

[The Boz.2038]

7 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

They're both Pistols, they both share the same benefits of a single Trait, they both feature Conditions heavily and they both do somewhat mediocre Power damage.

 

I'll say they are pretty related to one another.

No, dude.

Do not tie main and offhand weapons together in functionality.

Don't have an offhand's 5 affect a single specific mainhand's 1.

 

Also, lol. Core engie weapons are dirty af, but "mediocre power" is not the role of pistol.

Edited January 19 by The Boz.2038

[Yasai.3549]

14 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

No, dude.

Do not tie main and offhand weapons together in functionality.

Don't have an offhand's 5 affect a single specific mainhand's 1.

 

Also, lol. Core engie weapons are dirty af, but "mediocre power" is not the role of pistol.

Oh I see what you mean now, my bad then. 
Then yes, I agree with what you said about not tying weapons together. 

Maybe the Skill 5 proposal shouldn't be an attack buff but just a damage skill. But maybe it could work as a buff anyway? I can imagine if you use it to empower your Sword attack as a Holo, you can play Condi Holo, especially with the proposed Glue shot aiding in suppressing enemy movement for you to land it. 

[The Boz.2038]

Between shotgun and pistol, still not comfy with the power option being the longer ranged one, and the condi option being "the shotgun".

If anything should become a shotgun, it should be rifle. It has an engage (that can be used to GTFO), it's main problems is that the numbers suck, is too dirty, and the 1 is trash. 

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

Pistol 3 having an ammo mechanic would be an absolutely fantastic change. One more thing i'd maybe add would be an increase on confusion stacks to first target struck. 

Pistol 1 & 2 could use some slight buffs to base power damage and maybe their power coefficients.

[NIHILUS.4168]

Honestly if they ever decide to rework core weapons to this kinda extent, id rather pistols remain 900 range condi weapons and rifle be turned into a 450-300 cone shotgun, that deals power damange and explosions whit it getting pistol 4 and rest of pistol skills just getting buffed or replaced whit slightly better skills, mayby a bouncy projectiles for each skill.

Edited January 28 by NIHILUS.4168

[draxynnic.3719]

Heck, there was a point where one of the devs suggested, many, many years ago, that they might make Explosive Shot an actual explosive. If grenades can trigger those traits three times with every throw, I can't see pistol autoattack getting to trigger those traits being too much.