Anet has wasted their opportunity [Merged]

[Bakeneko.5826]

4 hours ago, Cynova.1236 said:

However, we are in a new age now where MANY new MMORPG's are arising and it's about time something finally includes, replaces, and even does better all the things we loved from GW 2.

Ah yes, so many new MMOs. Latest one being New World who crashed and burned close to extinction

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

12 hours ago, DeanBB.4268 said:

but suppose that is more Google's doing than Anet's.

Well to be completely fair someone had to pay google to display those ads 😉

[witcher.3197]

12 hours ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

MMO is very niche genre to begin with

A "very niche" genre of tens of million

[Bakeneko.5826]

17 minutes ago, witcher.3197 said:

A "very niche" genre of tens of million

2020 profit for WoW: 293.2 million. All of Square Enix MMOs in 2020 made 40.1B Yen ($370M USD) and profit was ~19B Yen ($180M USD). CoD in 2020 made 3 billion. Fifa ±2 billion. Tell me how MMO isn't niche 😄 When 2 LARGEST MMO in the market cannot catch up to game where 24 dudes chance a digital ball.

[Borked.6824]

14 hours ago, Monarc.9726 said:

Honestly, there’s nothing in this expansion that is going to attract new players or bring back old ones. The e-specs aren’t very good compared to the others, it’s hard to even understand the point of most of them, and the big features, like turtle and fishing, mean nothing to people that aren’t already playing. Imagine if any other major MMO that you don’t currently play announced a new mount and fishing as major features, would you really care?

New legendaries are also not a selling feature for new or returning players, since it’s not content they are likely to bother with. 

Less about being attractive, and more about a massive amount of refugees looking for a home.  The fact that everyone flocked to FFXIV is testament to that.  It's an epically underwhelming game that managed to have hype, clout, and fame delivered into their lap by content creators on an exodus.  GW2 should be right up in these refugees' faces saying "Even at our worst, we're still better than everyone else!"  Because it's true.

[DeanBB.4268]

15 hours ago, Monarc.9726 said:

Honestly, there’s nothing in this expansion that is going to attract new players or bring back old ones... 

Call it anecdotal, but in my guild it has done exactly that -- brought back the "old ones." Numbers have swelled since about Christmas with those returning in preparation for the EoD drop.

[DeanBB.4268]

<double post deleted>

Edited January 19, 2022 by DeanBB.4268

[Alkeizer.7043]

I agree with OP,  I just recently came back to GW2 since wow is just not great atm.  I was excited to see there was a pre purchase for a new expansion since I had no incling that one was coming out in a month.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

ANet should team with Viva La Dirt League on YouTube to make a promotion about fishing in Guild Wars 2 End of Dragons. (Featuring Baelin)

[witcher.3197]

11 hours ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

2020 profit for WoW: 293.2 million. All of Square Enix MMOs in 2020 made 40.1B Yen ($370M USD) and profit was ~19B Yen ($180M USD). CoD in 2020 made 3 billion. Fifa ±2 billion. Tell me how MMO isn't niche 😄 When 2 LARGEST MMO in the market cannot catch up to game where 24 dudes chance a digital ball.

So you think 293 million annual revenue is an indie game of a dead genre? lmao

"small loan of a million dollars" vibes

Edited January 19, 2022 by witcher.3197

[Dayra.7405]

Btw., did you noticed that Microsoft bought WoW (whole Activision Blizzard) for $68.7bn.? 🙂

MS WoW, MS Diablo & MS Call of Duty, now 🙂

Edited January 19, 2022 by Dayra.7405

[Danikat.8537]

I've just seen some of the developers on Twitter saying the press embargo on EoD ends today, so it sounds like there's going to be more coverage from now on, and that the lack of it before now was deliberate.

Here's some of the articles they've linked to:

https://www.pcinvasion.com/guild-wars-2-end-of-dragons-preview/
https://www.nme.com/features/gaming-features/guild-wars-2-end-of-dragons-preview-cantha-is-all-about-togetherness-3139566
https://www.mmorpg.com/editorials/guild-wars-2-end-of-dragons-preview-2000124124

[Gibson.4036]

Yeah, earlier I googled “end of dragons” and used the News filter, and got a half dozen articles on different sites that were all published at the same time. Clearly ArenaNet restricted media until a specific time today.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

13 hours ago, witcher.3197 said:

So you think 293 million annual revenue is an indie game of a dead genre? lmao

"small loan of a million dollars" vibes

Nice strawman in here, but that was not what he said - he said niche genre not dead genre.

Here, have dictionary definition of "niche"

Quote

noun

1. an ornamental recess in a wall or the like, usually semicircular in plan and arched, as for a statue or other decorative object.

2. a place or position suitable or appropriate for a person or thing:to find one's niche in the business world.

3. a distinct segment of a market.

4. Ecology. ecological niche.

adjective

5. pertaining to or intended for a market niche; having specific appeal:niche advertising.

verb (used with object), niched, nich·ing.

6. to place (something) in a niche.

But I would guess you already knew that, since as your strawman have shown, you are unable to assault the actual argument being made.

[Naxos.2503]

The only problem I see with EoD marketing is that it is HIGHLY skewed toward older players. 

So at most, older players who might be drifting could come back to the game from it, but the player count will not change much. I havent seen much of an overture toward Prospective new players, and that is going to bite them in the rear if it keeps on. At one month from release,  I find that strategy questionable.

[Gibson.4036]

22 hours ago, witcher.3197 said:

So you think 293 million annual revenue is an indie game of a dead genre? lmao

"small loan of a million dollars" vibes

Not indie, niche.

As MMO players, we see WoW as the giant gorrilla, but look at some of the mainstream coverage of Microsoft's purchase of Activision/Blizzard. They explain A/B as the company that puts out a new CoD every year and breaks records with it, as the owners of Overwatch and Candy Crush, and then they add a little parenthesis, oh, and WoW, that game that got some attention a decade ago.

That is literally how I heard a journalist describe it today. WoW is the game people noticed for a moment a while ago, and "it's still chugging along" were the words he used.

293 million is a lot of money, but it's tiny compared to what other games bring in, and it's considered the juggernaut in its genre. So, yeah, MMORPGs are a small corner of the massive gaming market.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[Bakeneko.5826]

16 minutes ago, Naxos.2503 said:

The only problem I see with EoD marketing is that it is HIGHLY skewed toward older players. 

So at most, older players who might be drifting could come back to the game from it, but the player count will not change much. I havent seen much of an overture toward Prospective new players, and that is going to bite them in the rear if it keeps on. At one month from release,  I find that strategy questionable.

MMOs are "dad games" by now, esp. Guild wars 2 - no gear threadmill, slower paced than shooters/MOBA/etc., long term investment of time, etc. Im not sure how familiar you are with "dad game" concept, but MMO fits it quite well

[witcher.3197]

17 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Not indie, niche.

But again, how is it niche? MMOs across the globe have an audience of tens of millions. I wouldn't call that "niche" just because CoD is ridiculously profitable.

Amazon is making multiple MMOs, even Riot is developing one. Those aren't small companies catering to niche audiences and they clearly see potential in the genre.

Edited January 21, 2022 by witcher.3197

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

38 minutes ago, witcher.3197 said:

But again, how is it niche? MMOs across the globe have an audience of tens of millions. I wouldn't call that "niche" just because CoD is ridiculously profitable.

Amazon is making multiple MMOs, even Riot is developing one. Those aren't small companies catering to niche audiences and they clearly see potential in the genre.

It is not "just because CoD is ridiculously profitable". It was because grant most of MMO market share profits cannot even catch up to yearly scam called Fifa. When you look at global gaming industry market you will notice that income-wisely MMOs at the moment being are a small specific segment of the market - which fits the dictionary definition of the word "niche". (I provided one in my previous posts if you don't feel like looking the definition up 😉 )

As for Amazon and Riot trying to make their own MMOs - remember when ubisoft made that whole big noise about "game as services" thing and how it is future of gaming industry?

The whole concept feels like rip-off of what every successfull MMO has been doing. The genre is defined by those qualities that Ubisoft was marketing as best you can aim for. So of course that amazon - which has barely any presence on the market anyway and was looking up to spool up it's own game making because of course amazon would - would first try to aim into an MMO - and guess what, it did not quite make the success they expected it to make. Riot is slightly different as they already have a presence, but for them it also make sense that with what they have, expanding into MMOs would be the way to go - after all their flagship product, shares alot of core design principles (especially from production and upkeep standpoint) with MMOs, so it's easier to adapt resources into an MMO than alternatives. Does nto change a fact, that it is still a niche of a market.

 

[Danikat.8537]

I've also heard that Amazon Game Studios was told to focus on online games because people higher up at the company want to use them to showcase their servers and related technology. That's why one of the original plans for what became New World was a 1,000 player battle royale. That got stopped because someone pointed out that no one wants to fight 999 opponents, so they started looking for other game types that can have 1,000 players in one server and settled on an MMO.

[Alin.2468]

Fishing - players will do it for mastery, and then avoid it. It takes too much time, too complicated, and not rewarding enough.

Anet forgot fishing should be simple, brainless and rewarding; something to chill with while sleepy and bored, yet still feel valued for your effort. Sadly, fishing will fail, simply because "less is more" in this case.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Alin.2468

[Bakeneko.5826]

2 hours ago, witcher.3197 said:

But again, how is it niche? MMOs across the globe have an audience of tens of millions. I wouldn't call that "niche" just because CoD is ridiculously profitable.

Amazon is making multiple MMOs, even Riot is developing one. Those aren't small companies catering to niche audiences and they clearly see potential in the genre.

Ok, I'll go on simpler examples, since monetary metrics fail to work on you.

In 2020 GW2 had avg. daily players at 470,450, Final fantasy does not provide numbers, steam says ~90k a day, so let's give in reasonable doubt, since FFis more popular than GW and say its ~500k/day. WoW atm, daily has ~600k players, TESO - 30k. 4 big MMOs have +/- 1,6-1,7 million players daily.

Call of duty had 100 million UNIQUE players from 6th to 15th of april last year, that is 9 days, totaling, on avg. close to 10,2 MILLION players a day. One shooter has 10 times mo players a day, than 3 BIGGEST mmo COMBINED. Fortnite has 30 MILLION players a month, totalling ~1 million players a day, that is competetive with MMOs. CS GO - 952,320, DOTA - 722,724, PUBG 547,706 , Apex on steam alone 244,723, GTAV on steam alone 129,143, Overwatch - 600k. LoL - 10-14 MILLION players daily.

MMO is niche genre. Top 4 MMOs combined have ~10% as many players globaly as popular non MMO games.

[Blue D Phoenix.7260]

Yeah i dont know why Anet does big on marketing, maybe they are like the Ferrari who needs no ads? 😅

[ysnake.3619]

8 hours ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

Ok, I'll go on simpler examples, since monetary metrics fail to work on you.

In 2020 GW2 had avg. daily players at 470,450, Final fantasy does not provide numbers, steam says ~90k a day, so let's give in reasonable doubt, since FFis more popular than GW and say its ~500k/day. WoW atm, daily has ~600k players, TESO - 30k. 4 big MMOs have +/- 1,6-1,7 million players daily.

Call of duty had 100 million UNIQUE players from 6th to 15th of april last year, that is 9 days, totaling, on avg. close to 10,2 MILLION players a day. One shooter has 10 times mo players a day, than 3 BIGGEST mmo COMBINED. Fortnite has 30 MILLION players a month, totalling ~1 million players a day, that is competetive with MMOs. CS GO - 952,320, DOTA - 722,724, PUBG 547,706 , Apex on steam alone 244,723, GTAV on steam alone 129,143, Overwatch - 600k. LoL - 10-14 MILLION players daily.

MMO is niche genre. Top 4 MMOs combined have ~10% as many players globaly as popular non MMO games.

Exactly this, MMOs were not a niche genre back in early 2000s (especially upon WoW release), Ultima Online, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest and whatever other MMORPGs you played were pretty big compared to some other titles.

 

But it has gone down, and even though we are playing a niche genre... we are having a blast doing it.

[Flapjackson.1596]

Here I am, remembering all the people saying the livestreams were fine because Anet was going to do a big advertising burst in the 11th Hour. Every piece of media is an important point to push and advertise the expansion. I hope the Kaineng stream actually shows off things.