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celestial vs condi-focused gear - anyone did the math?


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I haven't done any hard testing but just playing the game and looking at tooltips, I feel like I deal more damage with Celestial than trailblazer.  There are some weapons that don't deal much power damage so this doesn't apply to all classes or weapon sets, but on my Dagger/Dagger shortbow thief, holosmith engineer, and soulbeast, switching to Celestial gave me such a large boost to power and critical power damage, that the loss in condi damage wasn't noticeable.  

 

Plus you get the boon duration, healing power etc which can be huge depending on your build.  On my souldbeast I feel immortal in Celestial gear.  

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There's no one size fits all answer.  I can tell you on my condi weaver trailblazer deals significantly more damage.  But on that build on trailblazer my damage breakdown is typically as much as 90% condition damage.  That's a lot of damage to make up for power, which just isn't supported in my build.

A more hybrid setup with more contribution from power should see less of a disparity and celestial could even pull ahead.  However, my feeling is that power requires more investment to see similar returns.

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29 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

However, my feeling is that power requires more investment to see similar returns.

Here's why;

 

  • Power got nerfed across the board
  • Condi damage didn't get nerfed at all
  • Power damage requires (count them) three stats to be effective; Power itself, Precision and Ferocity - Berserker stats - so you sacrifice survivability on a high power build.
  • Condi damage needs one (or debatably two) stats to be effective - so you can run trailblazer's or dire and have both damage and survivability on a condi build.
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5 hours ago, Svarty.8019 said:

Here's why;

 

  • Power got nerfed across the board
  • Condi damage didn't get nerfed at all
  • Power damage requires (count them) three stats to be effective; Power itself, Precision and Ferocity - Berserker stats - so you sacrifice survivability on a high power build.
  • Condi damage needs one (or debatably two) stats to be effective - so you can run trailblazer's or dire and have both damage and survivability on a condi build.

I'm not sure where power got nerfed across the board.  The exposed debuff certainly changed the fractal meta from all power to mostly condi, but that's also mainly due to firebrand, renegade, and scourge rather than an issue with conditions in general. 

The problem with the previous power meta is that there was simply no way any condi class (maybe firebrand?) could possibly compete with power in those short burn phases.  I'll allow that tweaking the ratio may be appropriate, but I think the reasoning behind the change was sound.

Consider that in Trailblazer I can cold ramp up to 30k in about 5 seconds without using the defiance bar by throwing my entire utility bar plus several weapon skills into it.  Meanwhile a bursty power spec like Vallun's reaper can auto attack in shroud for similar damage.

They could redesign condition damage to run on 3 stats by creating a new stat that frontloads a percentage of condition damage.  This would make conditions burst harder without increasing damage over time, allowing them to be competitive without the aid of mechanics like the exposed debuff - provided they give up their freebie defense.

Edited by AliamRationem.5172
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It isnt really a matter of X gear vs Y gear but a matter of build and content.

 

Traiblazer focus entirely on condi and survivability. So if you build around condition damage with weapon throwing a lot of condition and low strike damage, then you will exploit all your stats. If you use the same build with celestial, you will lose some condition damage and gain some healing but your power stats are wasted, kind of. Yes you will most likely deal higher white and crit damage (while criting more often) but it will remains low. And do you really need that extra healing ? 

 

As far as content goes both works just fine but if you're looking for min max, I guess trailblazer works better since you dont always need all the stats Celestial gear offer. But again, if you build around with a weapon that can make use of all your stats then I suppose Celestial would technically be better.

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thx guys, for the inputs. i was, ofcourse, expecting the math only from people running builds that make sense (thief, rev, ranger, maybe guard) and their personal experience from switching over to cele (if not the hard math itself).

so far i hear confirmation of how I feel about it, so thx again for discussion 🙂

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15 hours ago, Svarty.8019 said:

 

  • Power got nerfed across the board
  • Condi damage didn't get nerfed at all
  • Power damage requires (count them) three stats to be effective; Power itself, Precision and Ferocity - Berserker stats - so you sacrifice survivability on a high power build.
  • Condi damage needs one (or debatably two) stats to be e

 

10 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I'm not sure where power got nerfed across the board. 

It's this one (I think it's this one, but because you probably won't read it anyway I'm going to pretend I'm certain).

 

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Nah, fam, that weren't it.

It weren't because no "power got nerfed across the board" ever happened.

Two things *kinda* happened: no damage CC in PvP formats (which you liked to), and Exposed got changed from 50/50 to 30/100. OP never specified format, and "CC in PvP" hardly counts as "across the board".

P.S. Lol at the "arguably two" stats for condi. Yeah. Sure. Expertise is totes optional. Aham. 

Edited by The Boz.2038
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36 minutes ago, Svarty.8019 said:

 

It's this one (I think it's this one, but because you probably won't read it anyway I'm going to pretend I'm certain).

 

That's a competitive patch.  It applies to WvW/PvP only and was more about nerfing the ability to deal burst with CC skills.  Power was not nerfed across the board.  See my previous comments on the exposed debuff, which was largely responsible (along with some unnecessary buffing to scourge/renegade) for the PvE shift toward condi.

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