Feeling negative…ranger in wvw discussion.

[captrowdy.9561]

So just take some away form roaming ability and add to group but buff other classes for roaming? I assume that would end up horrible.  I will say the one that one thing that bothers be about playing ranger roaming is everyone else is a ranger running mostly the same build. So the solution is to just make other classes better at roaming and give ranger something for groups. No nerfs. 

[Kovu.7560]

Power immobeast with stance share, greatsword axe/axe and prelude lash pet. Takes a bit more effort than OWP / Longbowing into an enemy group, but the spike damage on greatsword axe/axe is solid and the roots will allow your revs and scourges to land their AoEs. Muddy terrain compliments a mesmer's focus pull quite well if timed correctly. No, we're not wanted as much as other professions and you won't be topping dps charts during a pirate ship engagement, but open minded guilds make it work well and those roots can be clutch at breaking up enemy groups.

Run scholar runes and damage stacking traits from Skirmishing, BM & SB. 90%ish crit chance, 250%+ crit damage before scrapper/firebrand buffs. Marauders, or zerk if you're feeling spicy.

~ Kovu

[Alcatraznc.3869]

I cannot speak for zerg however for small skirmich/roaming, it has plenty of tool to be strong, sometime way too strong.

 

Kind of like thief, they dont necessarily fit zerg but they are among the most common and stronger roamer currently in the game. 

[Donut.6914]

"dude you can roam tho" its world vs world, the whole appeal is big battles. roaming is a fun little side event of wvw but if im going to dedicate myself to small scale pvp then im just going to play....the dedicated small scale pvp game mode. every class should have a useful role in a big battle, even thieves. 

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

2 hours ago, Donut.6914 said:

"dude you can roam tho" its world vs world, the whole appeal is big battles. roaming is a fun little side event of wvw but if im going to dedicate myself to small scale pvp then im just going to play....the dedicated small scale pvp game mode. every class should have a useful role in a big battle, even thieves. 

Personally for me appeal of WvW is large scale conflict, which consists not only of big battles, but also element of logistics, and disruption of those by small raiding parties. If you remove that, you could just as well make it into 50v50 sPvP queue.....

[Arheundel.6451]

On 1/29/2022 at 2:48 AM, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

I cannot speak for zerg however for small skirmich/roaming, it has plenty of tool to be strong, sometime way too strong.

 

Kind of like thief, they dont necessarily fit zerg but they are among the most common and stronger roamer currently in the game. 

You can literally roam on any class, if you really want to be hard to kill ....you can be so on any classes, sure some have both stealth and mobility and that make them easier to get away with...but roaming gets boring and it's really unproductive these days, all you get now is frustration because everybody goes around with a pocket healer and couple thieves hiding behind the corner, the "roaming" in gw2 is now 1vsX every day of the week.

The is no point in 2022 in being good just at roaming...'cause you can roam on anything really, if you want just 1vs1 people you can..on anything as long as you can play, on some professions you can run away if losing...but on all others you can make yourself so tanky , that either you get help or waste people time for as long as you can.

This is why I just play guardian now, I can 1v1 and kill annoying SA thieves thx to spear of justice, support allies when in group and still join zerg fights pushing with that GS ...it's all fun overall

[anduriell.6280]

1 hour ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

Personally for me appeal of WvW is large scale conflict, which consists not only of big battles, but also element of logistics, and disruption of those by small raiding parties. If you remove that, you could just as well make it into 50v50 sPvP queue.....

For that to happen Anet would need to give the logistics part (the dollies and camps)  their importance back. From when they changed how to upgrade structures from the amount of supplies present to just the dollies which get in it simply dumbed it down too much. 

Same with camps and the extremely slow tagging of those. You get the swords when the camp is already being capped. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by anduriell.6280

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

20 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

For that to happen Anet would need to give the logistics part (the dollies and camps)  their importance back. From when they changed how to upgrade structures from the amount of supplies present to just the dollies which get in it simply dumbed it down too much. 

Same with camps and the extremely slow tagging of those. You get the swords when the camp is already being capped. 

I am not against improvements of importance of logistics part of WvW 🙂

But then I am not sure if old upgrade system was really better - it did have that issue that if you dared to use local supplies to, I don't know repair walls or build counter-siege some would complain about how you are slowing down upgrading process.

[anduriell.6280]

17 hours ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

But then I am not sure if old upgrade system was really better - it did have that issue that if you dared to use local supplies to, I don't know repair walls or build counter-siege some would complain about how you are slowing down upgrading process.

Yes i remember all the whining.

It makes sense if the structure is being attacked to hold the upgrade thou. It even makes less sense than while the enemy is repairing the inner walls in a keep the structure is upgraded to the another Tier making all the effort done until then a total waste. 

Alliances if implemented correctly (not in the current iteration thou) should improve the situation with the supply waste in any case. 

WvW trivialize too many mechanics in my opinion  which makes the game mode to feel it has the depth of a pond.  At the end of the day having no depth is hurting the replayability . 

[Mell.4873]

I play a quick draw barrage build and I do fine in zergs, blow all my damage buffs and I can get 2 barrages in a row. That or a more consistent barrages since the weapon swap is longer than the cooldown. 

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Tbh, the issue with unique builds (3 that I can think of that don't overlap for the current ranger specs are a Core immob spammer, a DPS Stanceshare Soulbeast and a Healer Druid) is that, if what you are doing isn't easily registered through something, be it strips, DPS or cleanses etc, people will have a difficult time accepting that build. 

 

For example, you may be an immob Ranger. How is your zerg going to give you credit or understand that you immobing the enemies inside a bomb is what go them kills? 

 

That plus, the lower role compression "ah just another DPS" or "ah, just a third tier healer" rly hurts the ability to be creative. 

 

I won't tell you to look very far. Warrior. Sure it has it's builds. DPS Berserker only sees play due to the Banner, otherwise stack Revs. Spellbreaker exists for the bubble, Core merely a DPS option, with maybe the ability to cleanse a lot through shouts if a build allows it. Other than that, supposed 'healer' warriors or Phalanx Warriors or banner warriors etc don't exist. Cause again, role compression. Why get a Phalanx Warrior pump might when each party just needs a Herald? 

 

So, why use a ranger to immob/cc, a Soulbeast to dps/share some buffs or a druid to cleanse etc, when a Chrono can CC better, or a Herald can buff and dmg better or a scrapper can cleanse better... 

 

So hopefully the spirit and banner reworks will allow for some flexibility throughout all specs of each profession, unlocking potential new support types (if done properly) without sacrificing whatever can exist rn (basically I hope they add stuff instead of adding questionable stuff whilst removing things that could work with a proper new mechanic for spirits/banners). 

 

Time will tell post EoD. Let's wait and see. Also you should look forward to any Untamed changes. 

[anduriell.6280]

7 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

So hopefully the spirit and banner reworks will allow for some flexibility throughout all specs of each profession, unlocking potential new support types (if done properly) without sacrificing whatever can exist rn (basically I hope they add stuff instead of adding questionable stuff whilst removing things that could work with a proper new mechanic for spirits/banners). 

I would not hold my breath for it to end up in a good state, all the "reworks" up to date have been very unfortunate.

Apparently Anet will do this rework to add pulsing boons back to the sprits and replace the unique buffs they provide. Or at least that is what other people think. 

[Lazze.9870]

On 2/14/2022 at 1:03 AM, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

I won't tell you to look very far. Warrior. Sure it has it's builds.

 

The game has existed for 10 years, at this point I wouldn't mind if ranger got a build simply from getting an overpowered elite skill like the bubble. It's far from perfect, but at least I don't have to convince people on immob soulbeast/druid.

Ranger is nowhere near warrior. Yeah, the bubble carries it hards, but the foundation is still there. It has other means of boon removal from spellbreaker, it has CC, it can do decent damage. When Anet finally decided to give us something useful like boon strip, they gave it to use in the most awkward way through the Untamed. Technically Untamed can do a lot of the same things spellbreaker can do, but it lacks the bubble and the rest of the package is poorly implemented.. and the pet is still there.

[Svarty.8019]

On 2/8/2022 at 2:27 PM, anduriell.6280 said:

For that to happen Anet would need to give the logistics part (the dollies and camps)  their importance back. From when they changed how to upgrade structures from the amount of supplies present to just the dollies which get in it simply dumbed it down too much. 

Same with camps and the extremely slow tagging of those. You get the swords when the camp is already being capped. 

Yep, those were changes nobody asked for, to boot.

[jahaan.1405]

Here it is just over a year later and things haven't improved for Rangers. I tried the Untamed build and it worked for about 2 weeks. My kill rate went up and I survived more. Then back to normal. Lucky to survive a 1v1 fight. Part of that is probably that I'm on the worst server and we have no strong guilds, so we don't have boons stretching across the screen. I've tried 6 builds so far and still not having much luck. I must be the worst player ever. Other posts are claiming we should be able to adjust our build at a moment's notice for the situation. I'm lucky to remember which attacks and in what order for the build I have. I guess as long as two server groups are happy and the participation has gone up for them, Anet is happy with the changes they've made. I think I'm about done with WvW.

[Beddo.1907]

6 minutes ago, jahaan.1405 said:

I'm lucky to remember which attacks and in what order for the build I have. I guess as long as two server groups are happy and the participation has gone up for them, Anet is happy with the changes they've made. I think I'm about done with WvW.

I have a feeling WvW just isn't for you.

[ventress.4879]

On 1/24/2022 at 2:38 AM, anduriell.6280 said:

Roaming is not a thing: Mounts and the proliferation of superspeed and high mobility elites has forced the roaming to almost disappear. Most of what is left are perma-stealth thieves and condi mirages.  Maybe some malix revenants some pewpews in the sidelines. 

Zerging is what happens when a game developer increases the movement speed. And StanceShare does not work in zerging.

I have yet to see a video where the  pitiful immobeast build  can actually land a hit that is not the pull or the elite (no-reflectable AoEs) .  Ranger is not a thing in WvW aside from +1 roaming, it doesn't matter  how hard some are trying to push some random build into zerging. Even in organized guild runs they do not like to include the immobeast as any other class can do much better without the risk of killing allies because the reflects.     

 

The complete opposite is true since you can dismount other people with your mount you no longer need stealth to roam effectively. Hand down my sPvP Untamed build can out duel most other professions, except maybe very high burst classes.

[ventress.4879]

3 hours ago, jahaan.1405 said:

Here it is just over a year later and things haven't improved for Rangers. I tried the Untamed build and it worked for about 2 weeks. My kill rate went up and I survived more. Then back to normal. Lucky to survive a 1v1 fight. Part of that is probably that I'm on the worst server and we have no strong guilds, so we don't have boons stretching across the screen. I've tried 6 builds so far and still not having much luck. I must be the worst player ever. Other posts are claiming we should be able to adjust our build at a moment's notice for the situation. I'm lucky to remember which attacks and in what order for the build I have. I guess as long as two server groups are happy and the participation has gone up for them, Anet is happy with the changes they've made. I think I'm about done with WvW.

You want roughly 3 Rangers builds. Something for Zerg stacking, either Druid or Stance Soulbeast.

You then want a skirmish builds for sieging and defending. Quick draw + Duel Longbow is the best, but you could also do Longbow + Greatsword, any Elite is fine here but I prefer Soulbeast with Untamed a close second. 

Finally Roaming, this is best served with Untamed since it can deal with any situation but a duel mobility pet Soulbeast can also work. 

[latlat.4516]

18 hours ago, ventress.4879 said:

ng for Zerg stacking, either Druid or Stance Soulbeast

actually you should have both : druid if your comander has a firebrand to spare on you, stance share if you're put in the "no stab group".

 

Also, please note that SHSB/immobeast was a niche dps build up until some months ago. Now, it's just a sub-par herald, itself falling from grace slowly due to vindicators

[ventress.4879]

On 5/9/2023 at 6:10 AM, latlat.4516 said:

actually you should have both : druid if your comander has a firebrand to spare on you, stance share if you're put in the "no stab group".

 

Also, please note that SHSB/immobeast was a niche dps build up until some months ago. Now, it's just a sub-par herald, itself falling from grace slowly due to vindicators

If you compare classes of course Rangers will fall short in some places but if you really want to play one class in WvW you only have a few options. 

The power of Ranger is build switching, even in a Zerg you can easily change to siege mode and start Longbow barraging people.

No other class can really claim be a good Roamer and a good Zerger. There are better options for sure but not both at a same time. 

[apharma.3741]

On 5/7/2023 at 8:45 PM, jahaan.1405 said:

Here it is just over a year later and things haven't improved for Rangers. I tried the Untamed build and it worked for about 2 weeks. My kill rate went up and I survived more. Then back to normal. Lucky to survive a 1v1 fight. Part of that is probably that I'm on the worst server and we have no strong guilds, so we don't have boons stretching across the screen. I've tried 6 builds so far and still not having much luck. I must be the worst player ever. Other posts are claiming we should be able to adjust our build at a moment's notice for the situation. I'm lucky to remember which attacks and in what order for the build I have. I guess as long as two server groups are happy and the participation has gone up for them, Anet is happy with the changes they've made. I think I'm about done with WvW.

Ranger is one of the best roamers around, they can literally be unkillable in almost every way except to a few very specific counters like getting stab stripped and CC locked after using stab. As for zergs...it's a great healer and glyph of stars can swing a fight on it's own.
Roaming builds in order of ease to use:
https://guildjen.com/celestial-soulbeast-roaming-build/
https://guildjen.com/sic-em-soulbeast-roaming-build/
https://guildjen.com/condition-immob-druid-roaming-build/

Zerg:
https://guildjen.com/dps-soulbeast-wvw-zerg-build/
https://guildjen.com/support-druid-wvw-zerg-build/

I'd recommend the sic'em soulbeast and just stay ranged and don't commit to fights too heavily. One of your guys goes down leave em unless they're at your feet and the enemy is running away. As with anything, it takes practise and time to get good with something and often you don't realise how much better you are till you see a situation you used to die in but now do not.

[Soilder.3607]

Druid is part of the WvW Organized Comp meta now as a healer/cleanser. There is no meta role for a ranger in zergs as a damage dealer, but they make for one of the best healers with Druid.

 

Ranger is still, and always has been, one of the best roaming classes due to its mobility, evasion, access to ranged burst damage and strong melee damage as well as defensive utilities. 

Edited May 9, 2023 by Soilder.3607

[Mauti.3520]

Yes, give Heal Druid a shot. It's a stronk build for organized Zerg.

[Zaret.1450]

Untamed could work with a couple of changes.

First its ambushes, i suppose everyone knows that it can be traited to boonrip, if instead of being awfull ambush shills they were actually well done they would work better, just replace skill2 of the weapon, excluding hammer, with the ambush skill, all ambushes have a decently better aoe compared to most skill2 of the weapons, they can be a bit weaker and the unleash bonus + boon rip would balance it out, will it be better than reaper, mesmer or spellbreaker? probably not but at least it would be a stable source of boon rip because now its quite bothersome.

Make pets better, look they dont need to be a nuke, but make wvw pets have more health pool, on zerg fights they get deleted, and on 1v1 or small scale youre not gonna be focusing the pet and let the ranger make you a porcupine, more health, and unleashed pet getting a 5% incoming dmg reduction, with that pets become less useless, now make pets share your boons AND stealth with a trait in beastmastery, a passive in some skill or something, that way you make pets dont bother the zerg.

With just that untamed could work, boon rip, pets that are actualy usable for bubbles, corrupts and arent a huge hindrance, and ranger actualy has decent dmg on melee, hammer and gs are good there, and lb5 is allwais good for sieges, meta? nope, but usable yes.