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Why waste time doing 'new strikes' while you could be doing new Raid/Fractals?


kanemi.4903

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Hello Ganmers!
This doesn't make any sense to me at all...

The best content of the game is Raid/Fractal, why would ANet invest time/money
in something that is already useless in teaching people about raids when fractals seems
a way better teacher?

Why wouldn't you pull it off a
3 months (New Fractal)
 6 months/1 year (New Raid) 

Instead of useless content that has NO REWARD and 
never will be a gateway to raid?

The gap is too big, and for some people fractal CM seems even more difficult than some RAIDS.
ANET,  if you want people to learn raid, do a better job by teaching the mechanics of your own game instead
of creating content that will never get people into raid.

This largely depend of the community!
Or would u think that people will ask for a new strike kp?

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I think raids with difficulty modes (and proportionate rewards) would have been a better move than trying to create yet another instanced content delivery system like strikes. Strikes don't prepare you for raids any more than learning to drive a car prepares you for piloting an airplane. Raids were (are?) populated by a small percentage of the playerbase, but I still think they should have tried to improve them and broaden the audience instead of dropping them for something that doesn't seem to satisfy raiders or casual players. Fractals seem to do this quite well with their different tiers.

That said, ArenaNet tends to stick to its guns when it comes to a novelty system even if it's unpopular (templates come to mind). I don't think they'll abandon the strike mission initiative to go back to raids, so we may just have to settle for whatever's coming with EoD. From what I gather, they're going to offer different modes of difficulty for the upcoming missions, so we'll see what that's like and if it addresses any of the concerns people have expressed over the years.

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24 minutes ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

I think raids with difficulty modes (and proportionate rewards) would have been a better move than trying to create yet another instanced content delivery system like strikes. Strikes don't prepare you for raids any more than learning to drive a car prepares you for piloting an airplane. Raids were (are?) populated by a small percentage of the playerbase, but I still think they should have tried to improve them and broaden the audience instead of dropping them for something that doesn't seem to satisfy raiders or casual players. Fractals seem to do this quite well with their different tiers.

That said, ArenaNet tends to stick to its guns when it comes to a novelty system even if it's unpopular (templates come to mind). I don't think they'll abandon the strike mission initiative to go back to raids, so we may just have to settle for whatever's coming with EoD. From what I gather, they're going to offer different modes of difficulty for the upcoming missions, so we'll see what that's like and if it addresses any of the concerns people have expressed over the years.


This basically. If they iterate on fractals I would like to see them revisit instabilities. I feel like there's instability combos I just don't want to even try anymore because pugs handle them so poorly. (I'm looking at you, flanking...).

Edited by Firebeard.1746
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The benefit of Strikes is that it's 10-man like raids but even more bite-sized than Fractals.

Most people have an abundance of things to do and can't necessarily dedicate hours at a time to train with a group in raids.

EoD is launching with 4 Strikes, which is basically the equivalent of a raid... Just split into the interesting parts: the boss fights.

No one really enjoys doing stuff like the gate in W7, because it's tedious and not very rewarding. People pay gold for instances that take them directly to the bosses they want to fight.

Mai Trin (the only EoD Strike I've seen announced) is already basically a Strike in Fractals.

The real benefit of Strikes over Fractals is that it allows brand-new EoD players a chance to play without having to get full Ascended and infusions.

At this point, Fractals are only really for the most-dedicated players who are already geared for them. If a new player looks at the climb from 1 to 100, it might discourage them from even starting.

Edited by Minos.5168
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31 minutes ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

I think raids with difficulty modes (and proportionate rewards) would have been a better move than trying to create yet another instanced content delivery system like strikes. Strikes don't prepare you for raids any more than learning to drive a car prepares you for piloting an airplane. Raids were (are?) populated by a small percentage of the playerbase, but I still think they should have tried to improve them and broaden the audience instead of dropping them for something that doesn't seem to satisfy raiders or casual players. Fractals seem to do this quite well with their different tiers.

That said, ArenaNet tends to stick to its guns when it comes to a novelty system even if it's unpopular (templates come to mind). I don't think they'll abandon the strike mission initiative to go back to raids, so we may just have to settle for whatever's coming with EoD. From what I gather, they're going to offer different modes of difficulty for the upcoming missions, so we'll see what that's like and if it addresses any of the concerns people have expressed over the years.

I'm with you on this one. I see the main 'problem' with raiding is that the entry cost appears too high for many players. So many people get so far in the open world without ever learning how to be efficient with boons, movement, or working with other people. Asking someone to climb a big hill in one massive leap is a good way to discourage them from trying at all. But if you put in a staircase, more folks might be inclined to try.

I personally think it's possible to use strikes to teach raid boss mechanics, but you'd need a lot of them if you want to avoid just reskinning various raid boss fights. Seems like a dumb idea when you can do the exact same thing with existing raids, just tweak things to be progressively more punishing as you work up to real raiding levels. And of course, absolutely no LI/KP or other progress toward raid legendary armor outside of difficulty modes that match or exceed what we have now.

"Story mode" raids could be the most casual possible form - like baby's first raiding adventure levels of benefits  No enrage timer, group wipe mechanics only taking down maybe 40-60% of HP, and maybe even a long-cooldown mass group revive. There would be almost no meaningful reward for doing this, maybe some silver and the 2-blues-and-a-green sort of loot.

The intermediate mode(s) could add longer than normal enrage timers, a slightly more punishing big boss hit mechanic (so 75-90% HP loss for failing it), etc. Basically a watered down version of current raids that let weak groups feel close enough to winning that they might find it worth it to actually figure out how to play better or compose wiser teams. As for rewards, absolutely no LI or anything that gets you closer to raid legendary armor - maybe just reduced a chance at ascended boxes.

The top tier of raids could just be what raids are now. I know a lot of veteran raiders already find this quite easy, so maybe there's room for a CM on some of these, but the proportion of players who'd actually make use of it would be quite small IMO. This would probably just devolve into a few capable groups selling even more clears than they do already, so not sure a CM would be worth the effort from ANet.

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17 minutes ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

As for rewards, absolutely no LI or anything that gets you closer to raid legendary armor - maybe just reduced a chance at ascended boxes.

 

But why? Legendary crafting is one of the only things that really keeps the GW2 economy moving.

Every TP sale is a 15% gold sink, and many players opt to buy whatever mats they need from the TP.

Legendary armor via PvP and WvW is already super-easy to get... And ArenaNet has already stated that they're not going to make another Legendary armor set due to the difficulty in designing the one that we have.

 

Currently, someone can get a full set of Legendary armor in 6 weeks if they clear all 7 wings each week. (the next 2 sets would take 12 weeks each)

It's not all that special, more of a time investment than anything.

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I agree with this. No point in coming up with "new" content that's just a slight alteration of something that's already successful.
Maybe come up with solo, training or tiered modes so people can learn mechanics, polish the encounters and such. That way the game isn't bloated with dated, useless content (see: dungeons), that people only do for the sake of gated rewards.

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3 hours ago, LucianDK.8615 said:

Raids was canned for good reason, too few of the playerbase gets to see them. Not cost effective to cater to the raiding minority.

Meaning that if I don't run some content so that content should end?
For god sake...

Do you use arcdps?
If you do, you should know that if you don't perform you'll get insta kicked from raid/fractalCM, is not a question of 'minority', is a question of knowing mechanic and doing what your 'class' aka role are meant to do.

And just so you know, There is several guilds who do trainings and kitten, RA discord included, in which I used to learn almost every raid.

*Already have done my legendary armor
*Doing drood leg armor now

And not to mention that u can create your own group.

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3 hours ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

That said, ArenaNet tends to stick to its guns when it comes to a novelty system even if it's unpopular (templates come to mind). I don't think they'll abandon the strike mission initiative to go back to raids, so we may just have to settle for whatever's coming with EoD. From what I gather, they're going to offer different modes of difficulty for the upcoming missions, so we'll see what that's like and if it addresses any of the concerns people have expressed over the years.

The intention to me is clear, shift content (raid->strike CM) and make a 10 people golem dps content so the ones crying that they cannot run raid, cry another river for not being able to run strike CM.
 

Edited by kanemi.4903
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ANet have never been shy about changing approaches when content did not work out the way they hoped.

 

* Living World: they scrapped the approach they took for Season I, changing to the approach that has been used (with a few changes) in seasons 2-4, etc.

 

* Living World as the sole vehicle for new content: we're awaiting expansion 3.

 

* Dungeons: Not an unqualified success, and now dead as a doornail, replaced by fractals.

 

* Raids: also, apparently, not that successful.  No new raids for a long time now.

 

* Strikes were originally billed as a "path" to raids.  But, since they were implemented, there have been no new raids and no plans announced for new raids.  Instead, we have an announcement about new strikes with different tiers of challenge.  This suggests that strikes didn't lead to greater raid participation, but that strikes were themselves successful.

 

New fractals do indeed still come out, just not with the frequency some might prefer.  We'll see about new strikes.  However, I wouldn't hold my breath on new raids.  The facts in evidence don't support the idea that ANet will produce more.

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Because it's anet. The only consistent content is the Story, for the rest do not expect them to continue anything in making it better or such things. No matter if successful or not. Anet likes to start things, stop in the middle and start something new.

To this day, I don't know if that's positive or negative. Because we as players adapt every time. And of course there are complaints, but it doesn't seem to bring about any real losses, otherwise they wouldn't do it .... I hope.

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OP, you liking raids better than other content, doesn't in fact make it the best content. It's the content you like best. It's some of the content I like least (along with SPvP). 

 

It's very easy to say something is best, but in reality different people like different things. The Guild Wars 2 population as a whole clearly doesn't like raids as much as you do. I could live without them completely.

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7 hours ago, Minos.5168 said:

The real benefit of Strikes over Fractals is that it allows brand-new EoD players a chance to play without having to get full Ascended and infusions.

You don't need to get full ascended in order to do fractals. You can just stick to T1 for the time being and get some slots for agony resistance from the LW trinkets.

Also, fractals seem to resonate a lot better with the "casual" part of the player base than strikes do and the approach they laid out for SM design going forward is not going to change that (quite the opposite).

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I also like raids. But it's good there is different content for different people.

I wish that the devs would just make the 4 "Strike CMs" a new raid wing, however. We are getting 4 new strike bosses, so why not put them in a new raid wing? I agree that the devs should tie this together, and not make a whole other thing that doesn't tie in with the current end-game content presentation.

Design a nice new raid map with the 4 bosses. It would be more consistent and hopefully pull players towards raid content. Make use of the new "unified" telegraphing the devs are hoping to achieve. I'd say raids are some of the most engaging PvE content because what you do actually means something and you actually have to coordinate and play "with" others and not just spam whatever you want in a zerg. The decision to lock PvE "legendary armor" behind raids makes sense to me, and I don't think legendries should be handed out in an easier way. Adding more raid wings based on strikes, with strikes themselves being the "training wheels" and allowing the the new raid wing ("Strike CMs")  currency exchangeable for HoT raid LI for raid armor (while still requiring the current HoT collection) would be great because you can craft legendary armor even faster if you so choose to take the time learn the new boss mechanics, etc. and add it into your weekly raid schedule. More mechanics and fun, less repetition--sounds good!

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7 hours ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

I'm with you on this one. I see the main 'problem' with raiding is that the entry cost appears too high for many players. So many people get so far in the open world without ever learning how to be efficient with boons, movement, or working with other people. Asking someone to climb a big hill in one massive leap is a good way to discourage them from trying at all. But if you put in a staircase, more folks might be inclined to try.

I personally think it's possible to use strikes to teach raid boss mechanics, but you'd need a lot of them if you want to avoid just reskinning various raid boss fights. Seems like a dumb idea when you can do the exact same thing with existing raids, just tweak things to be progressively more punishing as you work up to real raiding levels. And of course, absolutely no LI/KP or other progress toward raid legendary armor outside of difficulty modes that match or exceed what we have now.

"Story mode" raids could be the most casual possible form - like baby's first raiding adventure levels of benefits  No enrage timer, group wipe mechanics only taking down maybe 40-60% of HP, and maybe even a long-cooldown mass group revive. There would be almost no meaningful reward for doing this, maybe some silver and the 2-blues-and-a-green sort of loot.

The intermediate mode(s) could add longer than normal enrage timers, a slightly more punishing big boss hit mechanic (so 75-90% HP loss for failing it), etc. Basically a watered down version of current raids that let weak groups feel close enough to winning that they might find it worth it to actually figure out how to play better or compose wiser teams. As for rewards, absolutely no LI or anything that gets you closer to raid legendary armor - maybe just reduced a chance at ascended boxes.

The top tier of raids could just be what raids are now. I know a lot of veteran raiders already find this quite easy, so maybe there's room for a CM on some of these, but the proportion of players who'd actually make use of it would be quite small IMO. This would probably just devolve into a few capable groups selling even more clears than they do already, so not sure a CM would be worth the effort from ANet.

if you remove the good rewards, you have just the eliminated the reason for most casuals to try it.

they would need to put in a significant gear upgrade for it to work.

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"best content" is subjective to begin with. Someone who enjoy PVE X PVP is going to say WvW is the best content in the game.

 

Then strike mission are far from being useless and from being "0 reward". You can literaly get free ascended stuff for cheap by just killing some bosses. And we all know the pain that is getting your first ascended gear. I can already hear people saying raid offer the same but raid are more difficult than strike missions and most importantly, strike are more accessible for most player.

 

I already explained in other topic that one of the reason why raid isnt popular is that there's no "noob entry" like fractal. Putting aside all jargon you dont always understand in LFG, what you're greeted with is people looking for experienced player doing X. Sometime you may find people accepting noobs or doing training session but you need to search through all of the LFG. In fractal you basically have T1 from lvl 0 - 25 T2 from 26-50.... And new player can easily make a group in T1 without being afraid of having mister 30k AP who can solo a legendary yelling at a the new player for not understanding that he has to stack with the other player (yes I'm exagerating but you get the idea). The upcoming strike mission are exactly the kind of thing Anet should have done with raid: basically a raid with several layer of difficulty.  If it is properly implemented (and if the LFG is well made as well), strike mission will attract more player and it wont be as daunting to join a group as raid. 

 

I know there are more people now posting videos about how to clear some raid, what to do, what to expect, what to take and so on. There are people explaining some raid boss mecanic and the job needed for certain class. All of that is very good however it is a bit too late now. Better late than never but it will definitely be harder to attract new player into raid now, than attract new player into strike missions.

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I prefer fractals over anything else pve as it provides good gold, item drops, tiered crafting with infusions, currency for items, and titles and much more 

Strikes and DRMs are absolute busts in my opinion.  The problem with ANet is they try to get cute and invent new terrible instances while not sticking with what works well.  Maybe my opinion will change if they radically increase the rewards for strikes.

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