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Here's why EoD is not a great one compared to its predecessors


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HoT - It bought us Gliding (mainly), and its been used and is useful in different aspects of the game. Especially to reduce fall damage. PoF  - It gave us mounts, and its useful for not just trav

I don't judge anything a failure until I actually get to play it, use it and toss it around.  We're getting more content. Here's a list of some of them: 1. New lands to explore 2. New s

Here's an interesting concept: If you're disappointed with something that hasn't been released yet, don't buy it.  I tire of people that bash something or diminish something's value without exploring

1 hour ago, Blue D Phoenix.7260 said:

I don't know why everyone's so pissed at just saying it's not as good as it's predecessors. 

Maybe, and I really don't expect to speak for everyone, but maybe people want to play the new content in EoD, the stories, explore the zones, y'know, the actual content.

Maybe they want to play it and then judge it. 

Maybe they are tired of people judging a book by it's cover and making half baked claims that have no merit simply to make a post and get a reaction.

Edited by Mungo Zen.9364
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7 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Where did you get the idea that this is something needing explanation? If you're wondering why, for example, I am disagreeing with certain types of feedback here, then just read the posts above, since I've explained what I disagree with. I "even" directly acknowledged the "weight" of the mounts right in the first post I've made in this thread: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/107253-heres-why-eod-is-not-a-great-one-compared-to-its-predecessors/?tab=comments#comment-1554106

So what exactly is unclear about what I wrote in the thread? I'll try explaining, no problem.

What do you mean by that? How are you "fine without eod, but not necessarily without pof/hot"?

(and I don't understand what you mean with "but I mean being able to do all content without spending extra hours")

Omg this guy again. Ok so without having to explain too much (you will negate anything I say anyway) - just think about pof/hot specialisations, mounts, gliding and the previously introduced masteries among other things.

How do they compare to boats, turtle and fishing? Are they more impactful or less? Do you think you can complete game content faster with them or without? How would you compare completing the core game/expansions content with hot/pof bought to completing it just with EoD?

I will leave you with these if you want clarification. If you still don’t get them it’s your problem I guess there’s no point to debate that. I’m out 😄

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I think EoD is the best looking expansion, though in fairness it is the first one to release where I am actually invested into the game, whereas with HoT and PoF I was very much a "eh maybe I will check it out" kind of person.

Yeah, fishing and skiffs is not as big as gliding and masteries, or mounts.

That really doesn't matter, WoW expansions don't sell on big new features (if anything players dread them) FF expansions don't sell on big new features, ESO expansions don't sell on big new features.


It's about what you are providing with the core gameplay loop, with that perspective, EoD has:

-A full set of legendary weapons DAY 1, with variants of each one coming over time
-A new mount type that encourages social play, and mounts are already one of gw2s most beloved features

-Actual "raid" content day 1, the first expansion to release with instanced endgame on launch

-4 new full zones with meta events and WBs, and one new sanctuary zone which is upgradable with a (boring) mastery

 

Compare this to POF, which besides mounts, was basically just new zones with few long term activities, and actually afaik died very quickly due to lack of rewards or long term goals besides the mount mastery tracks.

From what I can tell, Heart of Thorns was the biggest expansion, and will probably remain the case as it released when Gw2 was at its most profitable, but the fact that EOD is still so massive compared to ANY mmo expansions besides the two kings, is impressive as hell. Also charges 20 dollars less than the 2 kings.

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18 hours ago, Blue D Phoenix.7260 said:

I'm talking about overall addition to the game, glider and mounts became useful, mounts for travel and gliders for safe fall + glide from one to another, if a enemy pushed u up you can glide down somehow. 

Why eod doesn't bring something like that, skiffs and fishing is just a mini game and turtle mount is only useful on a organised party and won't be easy to find a party on your own. 

It's extremely easy to find parties in this game, like just join the tons of meta trains and Wbs and there will be tons of turtles to gun on or you can ride someone around

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1 hour ago, Mik.3401 said:

Omg this guy again. Ok so without having to explain too much (you will negate anything I say anyway) - just think about pof/hot specialisations, mounts, gliding and the previously introduced masteries among other things.

How do they compare to boats, turtle and fishing? Are they more impactful or less? Do you think you can complete game content faster with them or without? How would you compare completing the core game/expansions content with hot/pof bought to completing it just with EoD?

I will leave you with these if you want clarification. If you still don’t get them it’s your problem I guess there’s no point to debate that. I’m out 😄

So what do you propose they should have added in lieu of what's there that would qualify?

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2 hours ago, Drunkfrank.8795 said:

snip

-Actual "raid" content day 1, the first expansion to release with instanced endgame on launch

snip

Just wanted to point out this is false, you wont have the cm strikes at day 1 they will be sprinkled out 1 at the time later.

They story versions will be there tho.

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2 hours ago, Sigmoid.7082 said:

So what do you propose they should have added in lieu of what's there that would qualify?

I'm not OP but there are tons of big features they could have added if they were willing to invest. Some examples;

 

- New Race

- Underwater combat overhaul

- Actual innovative content surrounding boats, like naval battles

- Player housing

- New weapon types, or a new kit style system for new weapons

-Possibly new movement styles, like wall climbing 

 

EOD is lacking meaningful features that will give the game longevity, and reinvigorate old content.

 

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I’ll note that with the way this games content delivery is structured, when I buy an expansion I’m also lumping an expected LW season in to the package of what I’m funding.

Now, I know ANet could deliver EOD and then never add another thing to the game. They could even shut down the servers a little while after. So LW6 isn’t guaranteed at all.

Based on what they’re communicating and past history, I don’t expect that. So with my $30 I’m buying the EoD zones and story as well as LW6 zones and story.

I really don’t need some game-changing feature to make it worth the cost.

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10 hours ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

Maybe, and I really don't expect to speak for everyone, but maybe people want to play the new content in EoD, the stories, explore the zones, y'know, the actual content.

Maybe they want to play it and then judge it. 

Maybe they are tired of people judging a book by it's cover and making half baked claims that have no merit simply to make a post and get a reaction.

yeah but dont Living Story provide new story, maps and content as well?

So why was so many people mad about the Ice Blood Saga reveal event since living stories provide just what you describe?

 

Has to be more to player retention than those things you described. 

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There's always going to be that small, vocal, entitled crowd that thinks they deserve the sun, the moon, and the stars, but then still complain when they get it. "I want, I want, I want", yes, well, we don't always get what we want.

"Anet didn't give me what I want, so it's bad." The entitlement throughout this and the dozen other threads whining about the things ya'll didn't get is truly hilarious. And ya'll wonder why the devs don't spend any time on this forum.

Reddit is more chill than these forums, and that's quite a feat. Truly.

Edited by Keitaro Dragonheart.9047
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11 minutes ago, Keitaro Dragonheart.9047 said:

There's always going to be that small, vocal, entitled crowd that thinks they deserve the sun, the moon, and the stars, but then still complain when they get it. "I want, I want, I want", yes, well, we don't always get what we want.

"Anet didn't give me what I want, so it's bad." The entitlement throughout this and the dozen other threads whining about the things ya'll didn't get is truly hilarious. And ya'll wonder why the devs don't spend any time on this forum.

Reddit is more chill than these forums, and that's quite a feat. Truly.

You know this is a eod discussion thread. And I didn't say eod is bad, I said by comparing it to other expansions it's not great. 

There are more posts saying eod is good or discussions similar to that. But a discussion over its not great is entitled/whining now? Lol, I guess in your perspective criticism is bad. 

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11 hours ago, Heibi.4251 said:

OP - We don't know if it is as good as its predecessors since  IT ISN'T EVEN OUT YET.

Yes I know, I only discussed based on beta and already told info. I mean if they wanted people to come back for this expansion, maybe put something to look forward for, instead of keeping it a secret. 

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8 minutes ago, Blue D Phoenix.7260 said:

You know this is a eod discussion thread. And I didn't say eod is bad, I said by comparing it to other expansions it's not great. 

There are more posts saying eod is good or discussions similar to that. But a discussion over its not great is entitled/whining now? Lol, I guess in your perspective criticism is bad. 

When said criticism is little more than "I didn't get the things I wanted"...

Edit: also "EoD seems like a fun mini game"...well, where does one even begin with such a loaded comment? Kinda comes off as whining, considering the "Mini Game" we're getting is a whole new continent, a new story, new masteries, a Siege Turtle, Fishing, Skiffs, a New Guild Hall, New Strikes.

But yes, EoD is just a "mini game".

Edited by Keitaro Dragonheart.9047
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11 hours ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

Maybe, and I really don't expect to speak for everyone, but maybe people want to play the new content in EoD, the stories, explore the zones, y'know, the actual content.

Maybe they want to play it and then judge it. 

Maybe they are tired of people judging a book by it's cover and making half baked claims that have no merit simply to make a post and get a reaction.

Again, if they wanted to attract new players or bring back old ones maybe they should highlight the content that's a great feature not looks like an extra grinding mechanism. 

It's not judging a book by its cover but judging by the free trail they gave, which had few pages to it. 

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3 minutes ago, Blue D Phoenix.7260 said:

I didn't even mention I wanted these in the expansion, I literally compared what we got with what we got in previous expansion. 

And my original comment wasn't even referring to just you. But the lion's share of "criticism" boils down to either a) I didn't get the things I wanted and b) Anet didn't bend and twist like a pretzel to re-invent the game. 

Here's a valid question; why do we need more "systems" and "mechanics"? And I'd like a real answer besides "well, previous expansions did it." Does every expansion need to re-invent the wheel to be fun? To be good?

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1 hour ago, Ausar.9542 said:

yeah but dont Living Story provide new story, maps and content as well?

So why was so many people mad about the Ice Blood Saga reveal event since living stories provide just what you describe?

 

Has to be more to player retention than those things you described. 

We are talking about EoD and expansions, not LW Series.

However, IBS was generally received well until Champions when the company chose to shift focus.  Champions was an absolute mess when considering player expectations, because it didn't add new maps and the story was fairly condensed, and the AP and Mastery felt deliberately grindy to keep players there.

Even if you don't care to recognize the issues that Anet were having with restructuring their team during 2020/2021 and shifting focus to a new expansion, you can at least recognize that they stayed and tried to put out new content and finish a long story arc. 

They didn't have to do that.

32 minutes ago, Blue D Phoenix.7260 said:

Again, if they wanted to attract new players or bring back old ones maybe they should highlight the content that's a great feature not looks like an extra grinding mechanism. 

It's not judging a book by its cover but judging by the free trail they gave, which had few pages to it. 

You do know that 'judging a book by it's cover' is an idiom that translates to 'do not judge something until you understand it fully' right?  So, when you have played the expansion content, when we all have, we can look back and decide was this a good expansion or not. 

Or maybe, play the game and just enjoy what we got (or if you don't enjoy it, go play a different game).

Edited by Mungo Zen.9364
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2 hours ago, zombyturtle.5980 said:

I'm not OP but there are tons of big features they could have added if they were willing to invest. Some examples;

 

- New Race

- Underwater combat overhaul

- Actual innovative content surrounding boats, like naval battles

- Player housing

- New weapon types, or a new kit style system for new weapons

-Possibly new movement styles, like wall climbing 

 

EOD is lacking meaningful features that will give the game longevity, and reinvigorate old content.

 

I wouldn't class any of these as big. Most of these would be just a niche as stuff being added or are variants of things that exist / can be achieved with other methods in the game e.g. players housing being a guild hall variant and new weapons being covered by elite specs pretty much. 

 

The only one that isn't already covered or as equally niche as what's being added is "Actual innovative content surrounding, like naval battles" . But the problem is naval combat would likely be a minigame of sorts. The game has them but they often fall into obscurity, e.g. southsun survival.

 

Nothing you have listed is something I would class as adding "meaningful features that will give the game longevity, and reinvigorate old content" and none of these also match up to the poster boys of mounts and gliding people keep comparing things to.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Mik.3401 said:

Omg this guy again. Ok so without having to explain too much (you will negate anything I say anyway) - just think about pof/hot specialisations, mounts, gliding and the previously introduced masteries among other things.

How do they compare to boats, turtle and fishing? Are they more impactful or less? Do you think you can complete game content faster with them or without? How would you compare completing the core game/expansions content with hot/pof bought to completing it just with EoD?

I will leave you with these if you want clarification. If you still don’t get them it’s your problem I guess there’s no point to debate that. I’m out 😄

How does one complete 'expansion' content without acquiring said expansions?  If you mean just the End of Dragon expansion content, it includes Glider and Mounts. 

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7 hours ago, Mik.3401 said:

Omg this guy again. Ok so without having to explain too much (you will negate anything I say anyway) - just think about pof/hot specialisations, mounts, gliding and the previously introduced masteries among other things.

You can "omg this guy" all you want, but EoD will unlock some of the basic mounts and gliding by itself, so... Nope, you're still fine with just eod and no hot/pof. 🤷‍♂️ 

 

12 hours ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

Maybe, and I really don't expect to speak for everyone, but maybe people want to play the new content in EoD, the stories, explore the zones, y'know, the actual content.

Maybe they want to play it and then judge it. 

Maybe they are tired of people judging a book by it's cover and making half baked claims that have no merit simply to make a post and get a reaction.

⬆️Also this, yes.

Edited by Sobx.1758
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8 hours ago, zombyturtle.5980 said:

I'm not OP but there are tons of big features they could have added if they were willing to invest. Some examples;

 

- New Race

And how does this impact the gameplay nearly as much as mounts? If at all? (because from where I'm sitting, it just doesn't)

Quote

- Underwater combat overhaul

Yuck, but admittedly, that's highly subjective and this at least impacts the game. As much as "overhaul ground combat" would, except underwater is just overally worse.

If they plan on adding broader, meaningful UW content, then this surely should be a thing. But personally I hope they don't plan on adding broader, meaningful UW content, simply because I don't like it. 😅 

Quote

- Actual innovative content surrounding boats, like naval battles

Maybe, depending on the application, which might be pretty hard to reasonably do in this game. Either way, first you need boats.

Quote

- Player housing

And how does this impact the gameplay nearly as much as mounts? If at all? (because from where I'm sitting, it just doesn't)

It's even more passive and less meaningful than fishing, which is always weird to me when people mention "housing" (on top of home instance, guild halls and various player hubs we already have), but complan about what we get "because it's not game changing enough" or w/e.

Quote

- New weapon types, or a new kit style system for new weapons

I'd say before adding new weapon types for the sake of adding new weapon types, there's a whole lot of potential in reworking/updating/rebalancing currently underused and underperforming weapons. And no, I'm not saying that every weapon should be perfectly balanced or competitive, but there still is plenty of room for changes in what we currently have.

Quote

-Possibly new movement styles, like wall climbing 

...skyscale? Oakheart's reach?

Quote

EOD is lacking meaningful features that will give the game longevity, and reinvigorate old content.

What gives the game "longevity" is the [re]playable content. And that we do get in every expansion/LW.

Edited by Sobx.1758
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4 hours ago, zombyturtle.5980 said:

I'm not OP but there are tons of big features they could have added if they were willing to invest. Some examples;

 

- New Race

- Underwater combat overhaul

- Actual innovative content surrounding boats, like naval battles

- Player housing

- New weapon types, or a new kit style system for new weapons

-Possibly new movement styles, like wall climbing 

 

EOD is lacking meaningful features that will give the game longevity, and reinvigorate old content.

 

And if they replaced those said things with a feature they will release, there would be another crowd complaining about that being added and not fishing. There is no way to please everyone. Anet chose the features they thought ppl would want more which is understandable since we already have “housing” in the game. With our home and guild hall. So they probably went with fishing cause that is a new feature which many wanted. 

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On 1/22/2022 at 4:21 PM, Monarc.9726 said:

EoD disappoints me from a features perspective.

It also disappoints from an e-spec perspective. I beta tested all of them, some twice, and I’m just really disappointed with most of them.

I’m still not sure what to do with siege turtle, maybe it will make more sense in the new maps.

I’m still going to play regardless, but only looking forward to new maps and story. The new legendaries are meh if they don’t match your fashion style, but maybe strikes and open world content will get better rewards and some cool new armor sets…?

That's exactly my position as well.
 

On 1/22/2022 at 3:58 PM, Blue D Phoenix.7260 said:

Siege Turtle - Its a useless mount if you're a solo player, or that you're a SEA player and all your friends are in different time zone to have fun. Plus you need to be in a party to mount, so inviting random player to party or looking for a party to use the mount, wont be easy and be annoying.

You forgot to list the most unpleasant thing about them: the fact that they will render all other areas in Tyria a nightmare meta event-wise due to them being so big. We already have enough visual clutter from skills and effects, we really don't need more visual annoyances (in my personal opinion, at least).

Making them semitransparent (if that feature actually works properly, which remains to be seen) will make the whole ordeal only  slightly less annoying, I presume.

Edited by Ashantara.8731
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