Embered.5089 Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) Edit: I stand by what I said below, except that I've been reminded that people prefer to have every choice available to them. Thus, although I truly believe that it's better to disable the boost for new accounts, I understand and agree that it would cause the problem of people thinking that they've been denied a choice. ANet has done what they can by putting a warning description, and by re-teaching mechanics in EoD and revamped world bosses. There isn't much more to be done. Thank you. I believe that it would benefit the GW2 community as a whole if level 80 boosters were disabled for accounts who have not yet gotten one character to level 80 on their own. The following will explain why. The GW2 community has been declining, and I think that level 80 boosters are a big reason. For newbies who don't know better, they will boost to level 80 and flounder around, not knowing what to do with their plethora of new skills, or how to fight monsters, or how to dodge and move and crowd control and follow mechanics. They are lost and frustrated, and the mistake of boosting ruins their experience, sometimes permanently. This causes us to lose good people. The boosters also encourage the stay of worse people. Players coming in from other games who think that everything revolves around power and grinding and "being the best" will use the level 80 boost because they think it's the natural way to go, and then rampage through level 80 maps without a clue about event organization, skill cycle efficiency, or gw2 cultural norms like when to res someone and when to leave them be. Because they are boosted, they will think that they are already at their peak power, and they will rage if they think that they're anything but. They are toxic to the community and to themselves, and they stay because their frustration fuels them to discover how to better kill everything around them. In short, level 80 boosters repel good players and welcome bad players. I think that they should be temporarily disabled for new accounts, at least until they reach level 80 on any character on their own. This will still allow anyone who wants alts to boost their alts. The only people that it might affect negatively are those with multiple accounts. People can still use exp boosters and all other boosters. I am only suggesting that the level 80 boosters be temporarily disabled for those who have not yet made it to level 80 on any one character on their own. Edited August 28, 2022 by Embered.5089 4 12 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungo Zen.9364 Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, Embered.5089 said: The GW2 community has been declining How do you qualify this statement? Is there a place I can see active GW2 players over time in a reliable metric? 4 minutes ago, Embered.5089 said: In short, level 80 boosters repel good players and welcome bad players. I do not agree with this statement or how you have come to this conclusion. Level 80 boosters do work for some players, but not all. Suggesting that the players they do work for are 'bad players' is also as silly as suggesting that those who level to 80 naturally are 'good players'. I agree that we do see a number of players boost to 80 and get stuck, confused, frustrated and quit, but you also see that with players who try to level naturally but never get to level 80 and also quit. Even players who have leveled to 80 naturally can be totally lost using a boost on a new profession. In EoD we will see training areas of some form (as per Live Stream) that will help uplift any player that needs info on CC and Breakbars or other mechanics. This is continued in Instanced content (Strikes) with better telegraphy and cues for players to work with. The developers understand the issues and are trying to implement more ways to engage players learning the mechanics, whether they boost or not. Although these additions are a few years too late, it is noteworthy that they are trying to do something about player education with EoD. When EoD drops, we will see many new accounts with boosted 80's skipping all prior content to drop directly into EoD. The devs have even planned for this by making Raptor and Springer available in EoD so players don't need to go to PoF first. Is this a bad move by Anet to allow a bunch of 'bad players' to come and join the new content with us? 4 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 27 minutes ago, Embered.5089 said: In short, level 80 boosters repel good players and welcome bad players. I think that they should be temporarily disabled for new accounts, at least until they reach level 80 on any character on their own. This will still allow anyone who wants alts to boost their alts. The only people that it might affect negatively are those with multiple accounts. What about people who want to play with their friends? Do you have any data to back up your claim this would not negatively impact them? Seriously... I've met all kind of boosties. Many of them were better players within a week than a lot of wing-wearing,.aura spamming, 366 Mastery, Multiple Legendary, Gemstore warriors I see in open world. The ship has sailed on threads like these. They are nothing but humblebrags by players looking for validation of their commitment to the game as if it automatically denotes higher skill. 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentMoore.9453 Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 There was a lot of buzz about this back when the boosters were first released, so I'll try to repeat my stance from back then. In short: Keep 80 boosters as they are, ensuring there are warnings and 'are you sure?' notifications before confirmation of use so players understand what they are doing before they do it (and even before they purchase said booster). If someone knows what a booster does and chooses to do it anyway, it's not really the place of others to step in and say 'I know better than you', even if you consider premature boosting to be damaging in some way. It's the same as people who get GW2 and decide to play expansions or story steps out of order - a matter of choice. I personally wouldn't recommend it for someone new to the game, but the option exists and the risk that someone might experience regretti doesn't really outweigh the importance of letting people use an item they paid for if they so wish. Wanting an account to hit 80 before use might also be seen as a deterrent for returning players who might start a new account after years of absence, and as I understand it that's a pretty hefty amount of people. The issues you raise concerning attracting the 'wrong' sort of people to the game wouldn't be helped by your suggestion, unfortunately. If they hold on to the belief that getting to the highest level immediately is the way to go, then the mere existence of the level 80 boost already confirms that bias for them and still would even if your account had to level up a character naturally first. Having the boost at all was sort of like opening the barn door, and there's really no good way to shut it, only to ensure that people know what the boost is before they get and use it. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infusion.7149 Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 Skimmed thread but what if you make an alt account? They can just have the warning in place. I don't see why Arenanet would refuse money (let's face lvl 80 boost are given out but some people buy them). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) If the forums are any indication, getting a character, or even multiple characters to L80 naturally does not guarantee familiarity with "their plethora of new skills, or how to fight monsters, or how to dodge and move and crowd control and follow mechanics". I discourage new players from using the L80 Boost, but it is certainly their choice, and should not be taken away. Edited January 23, 2022 by Inculpatus cedo.9234 typo 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythical.6315 Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 4 hours ago, Embered.5089 said: I believe that it would benefit the GW2 community as a whole if level 80 boosters were disabled for accounts who have not yet gotten one character to level 80 on their own. The following will explain why. The GW2 community has been declining, and I think that level 80 boosters are a big reason. For newbies who don't know better, they will boost to level 80 and flounder around, not knowing what to do with their plethora of new skills, or how to fight monsters, or how to dodge and move and crowd control and follow mechanics. They are lost and frustrated, and the mistake of boosting ruins their experience, sometimes permanently. This causes us to lose good people. The boosters also encourage the stay of worse people. Players coming in from other games who think that everything revolves around power and grinding and "being the best" will use the level 80 boost because they think it's the natural way to go, and then rampage through level 80 maps without a clue about event organization, skill cycle efficiency, or gw2 cultural norms like when to res someone and when to leave them be. Because they are boosted, they will think that they are already at their peak power, and they will rage if they think that they're anything but. They are toxic to the community and to themselves, and they stay because their frustration fuels them to discover how to better kill everything around them. In short, level 80 boosters repel good players and welcome bad players. I think that they should be temporarily disabled for new accounts, at least until they reach level 80 on any character on their own. This will still allow anyone who wants alts to boost their alts. The only people that it might affect negatively are those with multiple accounts. People can still use exp boosters and all other boosters. I am only suggesting that the level 80 boosters be temporarily disabled for those who have not yet made it to level 80 on any one character on their own. The issues you listed existed before boosters were a thing. They are not the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarcShriek.5829 Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 If you don't want to use the booster, then don't. It's not up to you to dictate how others play. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoni.7015 Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 Why don’t you let players decide for themselves how they play? Why do you want to decide it for them? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 I don't think it's as clear cut as the OP claims. I've met new players who boosted to 80 and went straight into Fractals or WvW who know combat mechanics better than I do after playing for 9 years. I've also met people who levelled naturally who have no idea what they're doing or even what's available to do beyond continuing map completion. I think the boost could use a warning to explain that at level 80 GW2 is very open ended, with no clear route for progression or required path through content. It could both warn that you'll need to find your own way and give some suggestions, but I think that's all that's needed. Many people who use the boost on a new account have a clear plan for what to do next, often including friends helping them. I see no reason to make that impossible just because other people don't know what to do. I will advise new players not to use the boost if they're not sure, but that's because they're the ones who are likely to get lost. If they have a clear plan which will work (as in they understand there's no gear treadmill to start grinding through) there's not likely to be any benefit to slowing them down. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson.4036 Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 It’s easy to level up your character doing a ton of core content that will never force you to learn your character, so this idea that people leveling the normal way will somehow have a better understanding of the game doesn’t apply. Not to mention, once you hit 80 one of the first things most people do is go get enough HPs to unlock an espec, changing how you’re going to play that profession you just spent time leveling. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSD.4673 Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 Not a single aspect of the 1-80 -- or the core game as a whole, for that matter -- will prepare anyone for end-game. The core game is so unbelievably out of touch with the rest of the game. Even the awful system of locking out skills does nothing but teach the player bad habits. You don't unlock utility slots for some time, and the first 5 weapon skills aren't even unlocked until level 10. That's more than enough time pick up a habit of, say, just spamming skill #1. Mix that with the mishmash of balance changes over the years (CC skills = no damage) and the utterly incompetent core mobs (condition cleanse = no point), and new players are in for a reaaaal treat. The core game is atrocious. Let players boost if they want to. Regardless, they'll hit 80 and have no understanding of combo fields, defiance, dodge telegraphs, boons, cleanses, CC -- let's face it, the list is endless. They're better off playing in end-game stuff that's more likely to be populated and more likely to have someone in mapchat telling people how to play (e.g., "use cc when bar is blue, dodge when floor is red"). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 12 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said: I discourage new players from using the L80 Boost, but it is certainly their choice, and should not be taken away. Agreed. Not to mention level 80-boost already has "For advanced players" in its description. Is it enough? I don't know, maybe it would be better to specifically spell it out along the lines of "not recommended for new players", but the outcome will probably be all the same. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayra.7405 Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) The optimal start of playing a new account is: Finish the Tutorial Boost your char (and I would choose Ranger or Mesmer to have some Tank support at Bathasar's dogs) to 80 and equip it with the stuff you got. Buy & place the copper-salvager into the freed shared slot Do the 1st PoF Mission to enable Masteries & Raptor Play your Personal Story and explore Core Tyria either with a 2nd char or with your boosted char. Step 4 is of course is very hard for any new player alone and he will die VERY often. But in the end you will win (Probably because the dogs explode after they have eaten so many copies of your corpse 🤣) But you can ask for help as we are in an MMO, and you clearly see that you have to learn a lot before you can really play this game. But I don't think that anything that can only harm oneself (and not others) needs to be forbidden (and hey noticing your limits I see rather as setting up a challenge, than as harm). May be a large text in the middle of the screen after each dead in an extension area with to few play hours: "Warning this game has a learning curve, it isn't just level-grinding, with a bit more training in core tyira you will once master it." 😉 Edited January 23, 2022 by Dayra.7405 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 I have a lot of accounts. Paid accounts. Are you saying you want me to manually level a character to 80 before I use a booster on an alt account? I'd stop buying alt accounts. Tell me, OP, how can you prove that more people don't leave because they're bored with leveling the way you level in this game than people who leave because they're confused at 80 because of boosting. After all, someone who boosts still has another slot to do it the slow way...but not having an option to boost would make it so that people didn't have a choice. I don't know a lot, but I do know that choices are generally better than lack of choices. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embered.5089 Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 21 hours ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said: How do you qualify this statement? Is there a place I can see active GW2 players over time in a reliable metric? I meant in quality, not quantity. 5 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said: I have a lot of accounts. Paid accounts. Are you saying you want me to manually level a character to 80 before I use a booster on an alt account? I'd stop buying alt accounts. This was addressed in my thread, though I did not offer a solution. 20 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said: I discourage new players from using the L80 Boost, but it is certainly their choice, and should not be taken away. Very well. 20 hours ago, mindcircus.1506 said: What about people who want to play with their friends? Do you have any data to back up your claim this would not negatively impact them? They are nothing but humblebrags by players looking for validation of their commitment to the game as if it automatically denotes higher skill. To your first question, most people that I know who have a good experience playing with their friends actually level up together, do story together, and experience the game together. To your last statement, I'm not sure what part of my thread makes you think that I'm taking that stance. It's entirely unrelated. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tukaram.8256 Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 I see no real point to this. Say I level up my necro in normal gameplay. Now I can use the booster and make revenant. Whether I made my necro or not... I will have no idea how to play the revenant. Making someone level a character normally will not help in any way. 😎 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 40 minutes ago, Embered.5089 said: I meant in quality, not quantity. This was addressed in my thread, though I did not offer a solution. Very well. To your first question, most people that I know who have a good experience playing with their friends actually level up together, do story together, and experience the game together. To your last statement, I'm not sure what part of my thread makes you think that I'm taking that stance. It's entirely unrelated. You aren't fooling anyone, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramex.1506 Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Let them If new players use the boost then got confused, frustrated? That is their fault but I will still help them however i can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcatraznc.3869 Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 It is their booster, they do whatever they want with it. I will always recommend new player to level their favorite class without the booster so they can learn the game while playing something they like but if they decide to boost nonetheless, well it's not my problem if they ends up failing somewhere or not understanding how or why X or Y doesnt work. Fortunately, most players in this community are willing to help. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmindeboks.3490 Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) If a new player buy this game for raids and is very interested in raids and practice a week for the right rotation I am sure he will out dps me even while I am playing the class/profession for years. being new says not so much, if you want to achieve something , then the effort is high. so a boost should not be forbidden. But my advice is, lvl your first character normally. Edited January 24, 2022 by Holmindeboks.3490 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rin.1460 Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) So I haven't played GW2 for 4+ years and never got very far in it back then but, I've played MMORPG for past 15+ years. Ever since WoW (I dunno if any other mainstream MMORPG offered boost via store before Blizzard introduced them) I always thought boosts didn't have a place for new players. You should experience the game and hit level cap at least once. Then If you want to level up an alt, and willing to pay for it, by all means. That being said, I have a Lv80 boost apparently in my inventory, so I assume I got it included when I purchased 1st expansion years ago. It will sit there until I decide to level an alt after hitting cap on my main character. Edited January 24, 2022 by Rin.1460 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Ha ha, I have 3 sitting in my inventory. I might, might, use one in End of Dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarcShriek.5829 Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 20 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said: Ha ha, I have 3 sitting in my inventory. I might, might, use one in End of Dragons. The nice thing about using the boosters is that they free up a shared inventory slot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayra.7405 Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 33 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said: Ha ha, I have 3 sitting in my inventory. I might, might, use one in End of Dragons. Uh, they block shared inv. space. I would have long trashed them, if I don't have a use for them. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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