Remove Boons or WvW WILL die..

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 hour ago, Gobcrack.9320 said:

In 2022, people go to YT and Twitch and see views and content to determine if the game is dead or alive and GW2 might be one of the most dead MMOs on social media in that aspect.

That means WoW is doing very well, right? That game has a massive social media presence. 

1 hour ago, Gobcrack.9320 said:

If you gave a new MMO player the choice to pick an MMO, he'd pick the one with the most viewers because MMOs NEED players to survive and thrive and you would obviously go to the community that has the most activity so GW2 is def not the game a lot of people will pick given it's low view count and dead PvP/PvE scene compared to a WoW or FF14 that gets players in the 500k+ range on a daily basis.

And those MMOs either don't sell copies(FF14) or are bleeding players(WoW).

I applied your logic regarding social media presence compared to game population, you realize that, right?

1 hour ago, Gobcrack.9320 said:

You're the equivalent of the New World fan boy that defends the game and company to death because this is now a part of your personality so you feel offended when people drop the truth about it.

And you act like one of those barely viewed YouTubers who seem to hate every game and act aggressive towards any criticism to their logic.

You can calm yourself down, I fail to see where we acted in any aggressive way to warrant you acting like this. Just because someone counters your claims or uses your logic you don't have to belittle them. 

1 hour ago, Gobcrack.9320 said:

Here's a word of advice, ArenaNet isn't your friend. They want your money, they want to be a successful business and supporting them blindly isn't going to do anything to improve the gameplay. 

Moaning on forums about stuff people easily come up with a counter for won't improve anything either. 
Neither belittling those people who add counter arguments.

I had a combined 18 months worth of classes related to how businesses work, I'm aware of what a business wants to achieve.

 

Here's my advice, if you are going to get aggressive to anyonee telling you that they experience the opposite of your claims please don't make such claims in the WvW part of Game Discussions. A part of the forums related to discussions. 

[Zikory.6871]

lmao, Gw2 would be fine if WvW as we know it died. We are a fraction of the player base. WvW is not even monetized outside of transfers. 

Tbh it would probably make them more money if they push the remaining fight guilds out and made it more PvE farm friendly. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Zikory.6871

[The Boz.2038]

15 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

That means WoW is doing very well, right? That game has a massive social media presence.

WoW has absolutely fallen off a cliff. It is bleeding players left and right.

But it was a *tall* cliff to fall off of, and their absolute state right now is still comfy.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

10 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

WoW has absolutely fallen off a cliff. It is bleeding players left and right.

But it was a *tall* cliff to fall off of, and their absolute state right now is still comfy.

I legit had to look up what the hell is going on with WoW after we get the 14th player joining our Guild in like 3 weeks saying he swapped from WoW.

[The Raven.1320]

4 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

I legit had to look up what the hell is going on with WoW after we get the 14th player joining our Guild in like 3 weeks saying he swapped from WoW.

I played WoW for about 10 years and did a lot of PvP and World PvP. The PvP nowadays is in a sorry state. For all the balance issues Gw2 has at least I'm not being one-shot by someone who bought an arena carry. IIRC the last time someone did the math for the power difference between BiS PvP gear and starting gear was ~72%. 

 

*Sad noises*

[aspirine.6852]

22 hours ago, Zikory.6871 said:

lmao, Gw2 would be fine if WvW as we know it died. We are a fraction of the player base. WvW is not even monetized outside of transfers. 

Tbh it would probably make them more money if they push the remaining fight guilds out and made it more PvE farm friendly. 

That last part would be quite easy, disable server transfer.

[ZeroTheRuler.7415]

On 1/22/2022 at 10:21 PM, Gobcrack.9320 said:

Roaming dead ✔️

Thief/Ranger mains on kitten watch due to never being chosen✔️

Lack of new players and low player participation ✔️

Stale & Boring Boon Ball Zerg Meta ✔️

 

Let's face it, WvW is not in a good state. 

Alliances looking rough, powerful guilds finding ways to take advantage of systems to remain powerful which everyone saw coming.

 

EoD also hasn't announced anything major changing for PvP in the game, just a lot of PvE as always and the one thing that remains consistent over the past couple years that led to WvW deteriorating to where it's at is Boons.

 

The concept of Boons needs to be reworked because it is inevitable that large zergs will naturally take advantage of it, but Boons need some sort of drawbacks or nerfs or even just straight removal in WvW situations in order to switch up the meta and make people actually think of strategies instead of mindlessly Boon Balling 24/7.

 

Here are things I think ANet should do:

 

1. Shorten Boon Durations in WvW gameplay
2. Remove problematic Boons that are being abused
3. Nerf Boon-Strip builds to compensate for Boon nerfs to freshen Necro meta

 

Too many WvW players are accustomed to mindless, boring, Boon Ball gameplay and it's clearly not fun despite what the white knights say because GW2 has no PvP scene. Being #1 in GW2 WvW is equivalent to being a dead Streamer/YouTuber because literally no one is looking out for GW2 content in 2022.

 

If people want to be taken seriously as a community and not have PvP be some mini-game, stop defending boring mind numbing gameplay.

 

NO MORE BOON BALL.

 

 

 

I agree.

Here are also 2 other potential options.
1. simple take: in addition to what you said make boons 5 person only

or
2. spicy take: up the player limit on aoe damage skills. This means that a smaller group could rival a much larger older style blob party. It would put squads at a disadvantage to all stack in the same place. This take isn't mine. It is from someone from my guild who has 40k achievement points and 1k+ wvw levels.

Edited January 28, 2022 by ZeroTheRuler.7415
clarity

[subversiontwo.7501]

3 hours ago, ZeroTheRuler.7415 said:

2. spicy take: up the player limit on aoe damage skills. This means that a smaller group could rival a much larger older style blob party. It would put squads at a disadvantage to all stack in the same place. This take isn't mine. It is from someone from my guild who has 40k achievement points and 1k+ wvw levels.

It would make a 10-man squad hit a 50-man squad 100 times instead of 50 times.

It would also make the 50-man squad hit the 10-man squad 500 times instead of 250 times.

Did your AP-hunter PvE friend with a tourist amount of WvW levels think about that?

No? Color me surprised 🤡.

Ed. Then of course comes the inevitable discussion of clouding: That you may want to double the damage against a public squad with a cloud or against a guild with a cloud. However, that then raises further questions about balance, what is already possible and what your hope should expect because if a cloud struggles with certain groups now there is no guarantee for them to leverage a gun twice the size either, if it becomes effective the guilds will likely adapt and in the end (as is the running theme in these discussions) it is far more likely that it will only affect the balance of classes (melee) and public squads (which ultimately are experienced players donating their time to help inexperienced players and favouring clouds over public squads or giving experienced players less incentive to share content and help other players is not necessarily good for WvW no matter how much someone is a selfish hermit).

As a note of interest: Would people who favour this idea of a 10-man cap support it if it was limited to melee weapons only - so you had to risk it for the biscuit? My impression of people who want an easier time clouding is that they always want to do it from a position of relative safety. I'm prepared to have my impression of that changed.

I say this as someone who likes to havoc (and played in havoc/focus parties even back in the late vanilla meta that some hold as ideal), with no issues grabbing a couple of friends to be effective against mediocre guilds and publics within a cloud, as things already are balanced. Who, when thinking about my own guilds, knows that a change like that would do very little to make inexperienced solo players effective against us. To be effective with a 10-man cap still requires people to be able to wield and coordinate that. If people knew how to do that they would already be able to see the potential in the 5-man caps against things like mediocre stack-and-smack guilds or public squads. Regardless of how they feel about a 10-man cap they wouldn't see it as a solution to a problem (to make something impossible possible as is how it often seems talked about here).

So, TLDR, my concerns here has to do with melee in balance, with small groups being able to organise against larger groups and the motivation to organise public content based on some unlikely dreams of it making clouds or inexperienced solo players taking potshots from range more impactful against lager, better-organised groups.

Edited January 28, 2022 by subversiontwo.7501

[Aeolus.3615]

4 hours ago, ZeroTheRuler.7415 said:

I agree.

Here are also 2 other potential options.
1. simple take: in addition to what you said make boons 5 person only

or
2. spicy take: up the player limit on aoe damage skills. This means that a smaller group could rival a much larger older style blob party. It would put squads at a disadvantage to all stack in the same place. This take isn't mine. It is from someone from my guild who has 40k achievement points and 1k+ wvw levels.

1 ) Hard to do it since gw2 is all about stack and spam gameplay,m the way Anet made everything is boon or condi from having its own effects on GW1 that could not be stacked from many sources was a INTENTIONAL dumbed down of the gameplay itself the game actually will get worse on boon stacking its not ment to be clever usage of it just stack n spam w/o any balance behind it.

GW1 (one of the best online RPG every made towards PVP )effects aplyance rules were amazing towards that cause everythign had its own catogory, still not what Anet intended to gw2 spamwars.

 

@subversiontwo.7501 it simple would not work, due massive lag and desync and dcc's :D

2) The limit removal dont work.. that's limited by the engine and severs, game would crash... its a limit imposed by code and server load toll, its a technical limitation, altough could be removed/reduced in one side an improve in another, like some skills/classes loose the more aoe/cleave  and then make strong very large  AOE on long CD  t o avoid getting "spammed" this could be staff ele main role for example.

With the current aoe spam game is already bloated with most of combat being aoe spam classes only or GTFO lol... now if the design of it its well made i doubt that has been a good recipe...

The Gw2 design has proven than its far far worse to balance than gw1 wich one one of the main issues they wanted to convert everything into boon stack spam.

But by the other side, theres plenty of counter meta... not used cause its not meta and gw2 players are awfull most part, well game balance and class design never helped much tho.

Edited January 28, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[subversiontwo.7501]

1 hour ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 it simple would not work, due massive lag and desync and dcc's 😄

2) The limit removal dont work.. that's limited by the engine and severs, game would crash... its a limit imposed by code and server load toll, its a technical limitation, altough could be removed/reduced in one side an improve in another, like some skills/classes loose the more aoe/cleave  and then make strong very large  AOE on long CD  t o avoid getting "spammed" this could be staff ele main role for example.

With the current aoe spam game is already bloated with most of combat being aoe spam classes only or GTFO lol... now if the design of it its well made i doubt that has been a good recipe...

The Gw2 design has proven than its far far worse to balance than gw1 wich one one of the main issues they wanted to convert everything into boon stack spam.

I think the possibility of performance issues is a good argument too, however, we can't really know that and it does not make any other form of discussion invalid. So I think it is a good question to raise but not a good thing to use to put down any other questions.

The other stuff you bring up is hard to comment on for the reasons discussed in general: It feels like you're just throwing out general statements with alot of different discussions baked into them that do not necessarily make a compelling whole. I think alot of people really like the GW2 combat systems and it is often hailed as one of the merits of the game in general. I think it is important to distinguish between words like boons, spam, stacking and explain how you relate to them. That stuff matters and it is not just one simple general thing to brush over in short.

For example: AoE

The prevalence of AoE is mostly a scaling thing and WvW is about more than just its largest scale. Also, like I'm writing about at length in this thread: There is more to large scale than just joining a public squad as an inexperienced solo player and being told what to do. The perceived prevalence of AoE at large scale has more to do with inexperienced solo players joining squads than it has to do with an actual potential of other things in large-scale content. For example, functioning in a havoc party has always required you to closely befriend the players in your party, inexperienced solo players joining public content just do not do or have that. That colors the perception far more than what is actually viable from a balance standpoint. In turn that colors perceptions of class balance for things like Rangers and Thieves.

Stacking

It also colors things like stacking, that in turn colors the outlook on things like Elementalists and the meta. The melee-range (and subsequently havoc/focus) balance has always been based on more abilities hitting the closer you get. This has always made melee classes dependent on tank, stacking and support while range classes has the ability (and often the mobility) to approach ranges in other ways. The more diverse melee and range roles have been, the more appearant has the role of havoc/focus become. The healthier balance has been the more we have seen these things in action. The more pirate-shipped the meta has been, with less diversity and more players clumping up on tag at range, the less we have seen focus/havoc. This is one of the big misconceptions that players who favour ranged, cloudy, focused damage hold. Healthy melee distinguishes range from melee and opens more opportunity for focus/havoc, assuming players can self-organise. That also, but to a lesser degree, includes ranged roles for Eles, etc.

Boons and spam

Boons is apart of that since certain boons are more or less required for melee to function and exist. Boons themselves exist in a boon-condition (and movement-control) balance and melee requires a healthy balance of that to exist. The spam is a whole other thing that harkens back to HoT (or HoT preparation) balance where the entirety of GW2's combat system was made to maintain PvE raids. Everything else that we have seen since is rather toothless PvE/PvP skill splitting, that is cautious, rare, undervalued and understaffed. Those are internal studio-wide issues and debt more than anything else. I don't think CmC and BenP wants the PvE spam balance. I just think that it is a huge commitment to break out of, that PvE still holds sway over them and that they are still incredibly understaffed and underprioritised to do it and do it in any timely fashion. WvW or PvP has a history of getting resources pulled and still do. CmC got pulled off balance to work on EoD specs. I don't think anyone here likes the boon spam. However there is a big difference between the spam, the boons and the stacking. Players here who cry about the "boon ball" or the stale "meta" mostly cry about their own inadequacies in being told what to do or not being able to just win through simple means like throwing some ranged attacks from a tower wall. That's when 10-cap suggestions appear.

Meta, expectations and actual balance

In the meta, you can join a group on a Rev, run your facets, press Hammer 2 and 3 and you will do the bare minimum. There are things for eg., Rangers to do but it does not involve boons and AoE so you can't just press LB 2 and 5 or send your pet after someone and expect to do what is expected of you. That's the bear minimum, not the bare minimum 😉. The question is whether the Ranger should get such a role and whether we should assume nothing more of players or just assume that large scale indeed just is a question of boons and AoE. I think you fall into that trap with your arguments here. Is there just boons and AoE or do people just assume that we can't do more because more is not expected? Again, this separates why a commander may treat me different than someone else, even if I turn up on a Ranger or Thief or anything without boons or AoE. That's not to toot my own horn, its merely to say that identity, relationships and proving matter in viability and exploring actual balance.

Edited January 28, 2022 by subversiontwo.7501

[AlCapwnd.7834]

On 1/23/2022 at 1:21 AM, Gobcrack.9320 said:

Roaming dead ✔️

Thief/Ranger mains on kitten watch due to never being chosen✔️

Lack of new players and low player participation ✔️

Stale & Boring Boon Ball Zerg Meta ✔️

 

Let's face it, WvW is not in a good state. 

Alliances looking rough, powerful guilds finding ways to take advantage of systems to remain powerful which everyone saw coming.

 

EoD also hasn't announced anything major changing for PvP in the game, just a lot of PvE as always and the one thing that remains consistent over the past couple years that led to WvW deteriorating to where it's at is Boons.

 

The concept of Boons needs to be reworked because it is inevitable that large zergs will naturally take advantage of it, but Boons need some sort of drawbacks or nerfs or even just straight removal in WvW situations in order to switch up the meta and make people actually think of strategies instead of mindlessly Boon Balling 24/7.

 

Here are things I think ANet should do:

 

1. Shorten Boon Durations in WvW gameplay
2. Remove problematic Boons that are being abused
3. Nerf Boon-Strip builds to compensate for Boon nerfs to freshen Necro meta

 

Too many WvW players are accustomed to mindless, boring, Boon Ball gameplay and it's clearly not fun despite what the white knights say because GW2 has no PvP scene. Being #1 in GW2 WvW is equivalent to being a dead Streamer/YouTuber because literally no one is looking out for GW2 content in 2022.

 

If people want to be taken seriously as a community and not have PvP be some mini-game, stop defending boring mind numbing gameplay.

 

NO MORE BOON BALL.

 

 

 

Make the game the way I WANT it or I quit.

 

Mostly Everyone else who plays the game mode the way it was intended is fine with it.

 

Sounds like a you problem. Not a boon problem.

 

Just in NA the current kill count is 414,633. dud gmea mude

Edited January 28, 2022 by AlCapwnd.7834
NA Kill count numbers for DUD Game mude

[OwO.1062]

TL;DR
Singleton roamers complaining that they can't pick singles from 20 mans anymore due to those teams theorycrafting a comp where all members get equal distributions of defensive boons that prevent them from getting shafted in this exact way.

If you're complaining about this subject on a roaming level, it literally only takes you bringing 1 FB/Tempest/Scrapper to join in on having the thing you think you're being excluded from.  Make friends and stop complaining, deadeye main.

Quote

Thief/Ranger mains on kitten watch due to never being chosen✔️

Soulbeast AND Daredevil have BOTH been in dps slots for theorycrafting for a WHILE now.  Some people like bringing immob dpsbeast in a couple slots because it can be highly deadly against groups with subpar scrappers.  Pogo daredevil still does massive damage and can be deadly in both WvW and GvG, it just doesn't bring much outside of pogo hopping dps which is why it is pretty low on the dps totem pole beneath Herald/DH/Scourge which all bring ample zone control dps.

The real approach here as to why you think the meta is super boring is that Scrapper cleansing is overtuned and regularly performs with over 1k cleanses per engagement with those conditions being flipped back into boons at the same time.  That on top of the overclocking of SS constantly and the random addition of quickness on gyro use has made scrapper ungodly unmatched.  If those 2 things get addressed, as well as an overall de-escalation of reflects, you could see potential of a return to a healthy meta.  The only thing is you can't overdo the nerfing of reflections or cleanses because then we return to pirate ship meta where everyone is a massive puss.

Did a little research and dudes been hopping between forums to talk about how dead and awful GW2 is from his 937 AP account, while confused reacting to any opinions differing from his own.  What a child.

Edited January 28, 2022 by OwO.1062
Additional feedback

[AlCapwnd.7834]

1 hour ago, OwO.1062 said:

Did a little research and dudes been hopping between forums to talk about how dead and awful GW2 is from his 937 AP account, while confused reacting to any opinions differing from his own.  What a child.

Yup! That's how trolls work and operate.

[kash.9213]

3 minutes ago, Gobcrack.9320 said:

 

1. Not my main account.

2. I only posted 2 threads, one in PvP and one in WvW and both being critical of the game. Sorry i'm not a mindless ArenaNet bot that only posts white knight threads like you 🙂

 

And finally welcome to the real world bud, your game died half a decade ago and anything remaining is irrelevant as it isn't even big enough to generate more than a couple hundred viewers on Twitch or YouTube which games older than GW2 can do on a daily basis.

 

I know saying all of this will make me seem like a hater, I know all the white knights will come and cry and whine about how i'm wrong while moving the goalpost, but facts are facts are GW2 is one of the lowest watched MMOs out of them all for the pure reason that ArenaNet doesn't bother updating or fixing anything in their game besides new cash grabs and cash shops items.

 

Maybe you should do some research on other MMOs and you wouldn't sound like such a clingy fan boy dismissing actual facts about your game. 

 

Speaking of research. What's the disparity in numbers between GW2 and a few examples that are doing well in streaming and video viewership? Then how well is GW2 performing in actual players compared to those examples. I'd be curious what kind of decisions are made with those other games and what kind of services they provide and how healthy their competitive modes are, or at least how fun the combat is.

[kash.9213]

40 minutes ago, Gobcrack.9320 said:

 

New World for example right now is sitting at around 10k viewers, that's a game that lost 90% of it's population yet still has people actively logging in and wanting to watch content. 

 

WoW right now is sitting in the 25 - 30k range, most of the top streamers are pro-PvP players who actually have access to Blizzard tournaments/support and can make a living doing this.

 

FF14 is on the lower end, it's sitting at around 4 - 5k and primarily because the content is mostly a story thing and people don't really care for it since PvP doesn't exist either and it's only PvE stuff.

 

GW2 out of ALL those titles is at 650 viewers as me typing this. This is a decade old game that gets less views than games that came out before it, and most of the people streaming are NOT PvP players because this scene is absolutely dead. 

 

I'm pointing out these numbers and making correlations because in 2022, NO ONE will play an MMO without knowing there's an active community behind it. When people think about MMOs, GW2 isn't one of them because it fails to deliver any sort of content or stability for creators which means the community is isolated and small and that's one of the reasons why you see so many hardcore GW2 fan boys that can't handle the truth, they purposefully shut off any and all criticism due to their small size and lack of knowledge about the MMO genre as a whole.

There's games with better combat, better PvP but those discussions can't be had because the 10 people that still support this game's PvP scene will rampantly try to stop all discussion. 

 

 

Anet neglects it's Spvp and WvW modes when those could have had great and long lasting viewership. 

It kind of sounds like you're saying that more people are playing GW2 but watching a handful of players play those other games. That's great for GW2 in general and I think Anet would rather be in that position than the opposite. 

I'd like to have more connected and vibrant Spvp and WvW modes and I wont be happy with the game until it does if ever, but it doesn't sound like this game is struggling as much as you claim.

Edited February 1, 2022 by kash.9213

[Gobcrack.9320]

1 minute ago, kash.9213 said:

but it doesn't sound like this game is struggling as much as you claim.

 

I think you misunderstood the statistics. 

 

That's 500 - 600 viewers across ALL GW2 Content INCLDUING Fractals/Raids/PvE.

 

The Fractals scene is barebones, it has no support and it doesn't get any updates unlike M+ in WoW which gets routinely 100k+ Twitch viewers and endorsements from Blizzard where people can make a career out of it.

 

Raids are abandoned for Strikes, Strikes are just boring content to run through for mats to get armor that you only have to get one time and due to the way progression works you have nothing else to strive for as you hit "end game" unless you just want farm your mind out and get legendaries.

 

All of which again is not something people want to watch lol.

 

How can anyone make the claim GW2 has a healthy community when there's no content creators that are even remotely relevant in their scene, the "newest" GW2 videos on YT for example are 4+ months old similar to how long ArenaNet takes to push out any sort of actual update. Stale meta, stale game and once most people figure it out they end up treating GW2 like a side game they play for a month and quit.

 

I think people need to understand that in general GW2 is struggling purely because of the way the gameplay works and is designed, and constantly supporting ArenaNet blindly without any criticism is the reason why the game is the way it is right now.

 

 

[Zikory.6871]

What's the highest viewers any Guild Wars 2 content has ever gotten? 

 

What's the highest any WvW content has ever had? 

[Aeolus.3615]

@Gobcrack.9320

 

As a gw1 player since 2004, gw1 community > gw2 community, i actually felt more part of something back in gw1 than in gw2, being in pvp or pve.

Guilds here doesn't matter in 1st place....

Servers are useless in a way since its ktrain pvd timezones lots vs empty most time, and blobbers to farm gates hardly can be called a community.

 

EDIT: Think theres a guild dedicated to some wurms event in pve? that's the max i can call close to a  True community in this game, and i ment the core of that group.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[obastable.5231]

On 1/23/2022 at 1:21 AM, Gobcrack.9320 said:

Roaming dead ✔️

Thief/Ranger mains on kitten watch due to never being chosen✔️

Lack of new players and low player participation ✔️

Stale & Boring Boon Ball Zerg Meta ✔️

 

Let's face it, WvW is not in a good state. 

Alliances looking rough, powerful guilds finding ways to take advantage of systems to remain powerful which everyone saw coming.

 

EoD also hasn't announced anything major changing for PvP in the game, just a lot of PvE as always and the one thing that remains consistent over the past couple years that led to WvW deteriorating to where it's at is Boons.

 

The concept of Boons needs to be reworked because it is inevitable that large zergs will naturally take advantage of it, but Boons need some sort of drawbacks or nerfs or even just straight removal in WvW situations in order to switch up the meta and make people actually think of strategies instead of mindlessly Boon Balling 24/7.

 

Here are things I think ANet should do:

 

1. Shorten Boon Durations in WvW gameplay
2. Remove problematic Boons that are being abused
3. Nerf Boon-Strip builds to compensate for Boon nerfs to freshen Necro meta

 

Too many WvW players are accustomed to mindless, boring, Boon Ball gameplay and it's clearly not fun despite what the white knights say because GW2 has no PvP scene. Being #1 in GW2 WvW is equivalent to being a dead Streamer/YouTuber because literally no one is looking out for GW2 content in 2022.

 

If people want to be taken seriously as a community and not have PvP be some mini-game, stop defending boring mind numbing gameplay.

 

NO MORE BOON BALL.

 

 

 

 

Roaming isn't dead. I'm not sure what you're doing wrong to come to this conclusion but it's very much alive and well on NA.

Thief / Ranger both have great utility in comped groups - again, I'm not sure what you're doing wrong to not know this, maybe join a guild that understands the meta and knows how to play within or around it creatively. If you're pugging you get what you get, the solution there is to not pug. If you need proof of this do some very easy research in to what the top guilds are running open field, or maybe just go to meta battle and note both classes are present in the "Great" category, and understand this means plenty of groups are using them both open field an in GvG's. 

Lack of new players & low participation is the only point you've got that I'll agree with, but it has nothing to do with the meta. There's no new player experience to entice people in to WvW, only the occasional "Call of the Mists" bonus or a curious person clicking the icon in the upper left. The barrier to entry is high, the vast majority of people using map or team chat are prone to being judgy and rude trolls & tend toward unhelpfulness and criticism rather than welcoming unskilled people in to teach them.

 

In RE: your commentary on the stale and boring boon ball meta, a couple of notes. This isn't a boon ball meta, it's a boon rip meta. Sigil of Absorption + chrono shield 5 = no target cap stun proccing a sigil that steals 3 boons per target on interrupt  -- with no internal cooldown. You can literally boon rip a map queue with 1 skill, twice if you continuum split it. And that's one skill on one class that can heavily trait for boon rip well beyond this single skill + sigil combination. I feel like you're just on the cusp of understanding the meta, in so much as you realize boons are involved somehow, but you've got it completely backwards in believing the meta is about boon ball rather than boon ripping. Boon application is what it is because of power creep - reducing boon application and boon ripping wouldn't account for the power creep they're attempting to substitute as a form of balance for. If you want to reduce boon spam & boon rip that's great but it has to happen in conjunction with other changes to outgoing damage and healing.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, Gobcrack.9320 said:

 

I think you misunderstood the statistics. 

 

That's 500 - 600 viewers across ALL GW2 Content INCLDUING Fractals/Raids/PvE.

 

 

500-600 viewers on what? Twitch? There's at least 1k concurrent viewers over the top 4 streams right now...so unsure where your numbers come from.  Not that Twitch matters for GW2 as it isn't promoted there, nor are there any personalities like Asmon that have neckbeard armies to keep decades old games going (i.e. WoW).  

To your points about boons, sorry that you have never discovered corrupts or strips.  If anything, the only egregious boons right now are superspeed and perhaps quickness as they do alter gameplay in ways that the existing combat mechanics struggle to keep up with.  

Also speaking from a purely NA roaming standpoint, while roaming is 'dead' it isn't because of boons, it is because of claim buff and warclaws.  It's just too easy to defend now.  

So yeah, WvW has problems but the combat engine and most boons are not the primary issues here.  Bringing up other games as comparison also isn't new, it just makes you look like a walking Raid Shadow Legends ad.  

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Swagger.1459]

@Gobcrack.9320 You post on your main account too? 

[Dawdler.8521]

32 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

500-600 viewers on what? Twitch? There's at least 1k concurrent viewers over the top 4 streams right now...so unsure where your numbers come from. 

I just checked twitch and it says 2.43k viewers/609k followers. New World in comparison says 5.74k viewers/549k followers.

[Gobcrack.9320]

14 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

500-600 viewers on what? Twitch?

 

Answer this guy's question first:

 

1 hour ago, Zikory.6871 said:

What's the highest viewers any Guild Wars 2 content has ever gotten? 

 

What's the highest any WvW content has ever had? 

 

There's no community in this game because it's stagnant and stale from the game design all the way to the actual game updates. No YouTuber is relevant from your scene, no Twitch person is relevant from your scene, to top it all off your own game dev doesn't even support or sponsor any of the community members either. 

 

16 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

WvW has problems but the combat engine and most boons are not the primary issues here. 

 

The reason why PvP in general is dead is because the gameplay is designed so that every class can do everything, seriously just take a look at the "meta", it's literally 2 core classes that can strip boons and 2 core classes that can apply boons and then everything is built around this idea of boon balling. 

 

It's impossible to balance a game that had no balance to begin with, which is why both game modes and even most PvE game modes are abandoned by ArenaNet and hasn't seen updates in over a year.

 

 

 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

12 minutes ago, Gobcrack.9320 said:

 

Answer this guy's question first:

 

 

There's no community in this game because it's stagnant and stale from the game design all the way to the actual game updates. No YouTuber is relevant from your scene, no Twitch person is relevant from your scene, to top it all off your own game dev doesn't even support or sponsor any of the community members either. 

 

I'm not sure when Twitch and YouTube view metrics became the standard for how a game is actually doing.  You'd need to pull financials for that.

Again, I'm not sure how much of this 'relevance' matters anyway.  The more 'relevance' you get, the more of a toxic community you build, because people are naturally like this. 

Just this topic alone proves that as you are in a WvW subforum for a game and we're talking about 'view metrics' which has zero to do with the actual topic of 'Remove boons or WvW WILL die'.  

[kash.9213]

2 hours ago, Gobcrack.9320 said:

 

I think you misunderstood the statistics. 

 

That's 500 - 600 viewers across ALL GW2 Content INCLDUING Fractals/Raids/PvE.

 

The Fractals scene is barebones, it has no support and it doesn't get any updates unlike M+ in WoW which gets routinely 100k+ Twitch viewers and endorsements from Blizzard where people can make a career out of it.

 

Raids are abandoned for Strikes, Strikes are just boring content to run through for mats to get armor that you only have to get one time and due to the way progression works you have nothing else to strive for as you hit "end game" unless you just want farm your mind out and get legendaries.

 

All of which again is not something people want to watch lol.

 

How can anyone make the claim GW2 has a healthy community when there's no content creators that are even remotely relevant in their scene, the "newest" GW2 videos on YT for example are 4+ months old similar to how long ArenaNet takes to push out any sort of actual update. Stale meta, stale game and once most people figure it out they end up treating GW2 like a side game they play for a month and quit.

 

I think people need to understand that in general GW2 is struggling purely because of the way the gameplay works and is designed, and constantly supporting ArenaNet blindly without any criticism is the reason why the game is the way it is right now.

 

 

You keep talking about viewers but not about people actually playing. I mostly hear about people leaving those games they're apparently watching to play this one. That's an odd dynamic. 

I'm not just sticking up for this game, I complain about it daily, but your take feels very pointed at something that's not much of an issue as far as the games actual health.