Not nice

[Sansar.1302]

Some classes are overstaked mainly Necro and Guardian and some dont get any buffs eaven when needed mainly warrior , ranger and mesmer

been like this for many years now.

[Sarius.9285]

since when are warrior, Ranger or mesmer weak lol

[Alcatraznc.3869]

Well staff Mirage can pretty much spam alac fury and 25 might while being almost immune to attack because of dodge + ambush.

[Tyncale.1629]

Does this complaint concern PvP or PvE? Or both?   

 

If mostly for PvP(my guess, looking at the "style" of the post) then I *SO* wish these threads would be made in the PvP forums instead of General.  

[mercury ranique.2170]

I suspect that your complaint is about competitive gameplay.
I can say a lot of stuff, but they come down to the same thing. Just cause you loose a game, you should look for the guilty part in the classes. The most important factor in success is still your own skill as a player. 
There can always be some improvement to balance, but it is and never has been out of balance, at least not as much as some sore loosers try to put it.

[Sansar.1302]

Yes personal skill is most important factor , but some classes are clearly overpreforming vs some other esp Warrior vs Guardian and Necro

[Mesket.5728]

1 minute ago, Sansar.1302 said:

Yes personal skill is most important factor , but some classes are clearly overpreforming vs some other esp Warrior vs Guardian and Necro

or Warrior vs Mesmer and Ele, or Warrior vs Rev and Thief,.. or Warrior vs Warrior (?)

[SeTect.5918]

22 minutes ago, Sansar.1302 said:

Yes personal skill is most important factor , but some classes are clearly overpreforming vs some other esp Warrior vs Guardian and Necro

I think pretty much every class is underperforming if you want to win a 1v2 against a guardian and necro.
Or...did u mean Guardian OR Necro? We will never know....

[Buran.3796]

On 1/24/2022 at 11:14 AM, Sarius.9285 said:

since when are warrior, Ranger or mesmer weak lol

Since Feb 2019.

[Sansar.1302]

On 1/24/2022 at 9:07 PM, SeTect.5918 said:

I think pretty much every class is underperforming if you want to win a 1v2 against a guardian and necro.
Or...did u mean Guardian OR Necro? We will never know....

Did not meant vs both at same time, only mean that in most cases Guardian or Necro is severely over powdered and preform way to good. 

[Buran.3796]

4 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said:

Did not meant vs both at same time, only mean that in most cases Guardian or Necro is severely over powdered and preform way to good. 

   Stop rigth there! Guardian has some nice WvW dueling builds, none of them op. In PvP has a very good support build, but their dueling options are comparetively weak, and their Firebrand just inexistent. Necro is stronger in PvP and roaming, but none of trhose classes are top roamers at the moment.

[SeTect.5918]

5 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said:

Did not meant vs both at same time, only mean that in most cases Guardian or Necro is severely over powdered and preform way to good. 

Yea ik, I just wanted to make some fun xD

Yes there are some builds that perform better against other builds.
Necro is great against classes/builds with not that much condi cleanses, its because necro can put out nearly every condition ingame.
My condi herald is great against every condi build thats melee range or has no good mobility, its because it has condi transfer.
From my eyes its something like a necro killer build.

The point is: Every build has counter builds. However yes, some builds have less builds that can counter it. But its just normal. This will change from time to time.
Scrapper for example is also veeeeery good atm in wvw/pvp. Thief is no. 1 in wvw roaming. Scrapper has very low counter builds in wvw atm.

Tbh the only issue I can see with firebrand and scourge is their PvE state atm. I wouldnt say they overperform in wvw/pvp.
However you also said "Guardian or Necro" which I think is not the case.
I think that the only issues with Guardian and Necro are their e specs named "Scourge" and "Firebrand" but these also only overperform in PvE imo.

In this case I would say that Firebrand offers too much in PvE and Scourge has too much sustain in PvE while still dealing same/more damage than every other build that has like 30% of its sustain. This issue also influences Harbinger because atm lots of necros dont see any reason why they would use harbinger over scourge (except if harbinger does like 45k dps).

However these issues are PvE based, WvW/PvP balance is a different thing. So my opinion: I dont think there are lots of issues with Scourge or guardian in wvw/pvp against other classes.

Special mention: Yes lich form of necro needs a change, pretty op xD

Edited January 29, 2022 by SeTect.5918

[Sansar.1302]

Migth not be the topp 1v1 classes (still not bad) but it is in pve and squad based wvw they rely preform way too strong 

[Myror.7521]

@Buran.3796 Wait until EoD man. Both New e-specs are got pretty decent mobility. Also the only roam classes that are up are simply Deadeye, Longbow Ranger, daredevil, core thief, Herald, renegate. Also some people playing mes and warr but well both classes are actually too weak compared to everything Else.

[felix.2386]

On 1/24/2022 at 5:14 AM, Sarius.9285 said:

since when are warrior, Ranger or mesmer weak lol

since 2012. new13

Edited February 6, 2022 by felix.2386

[Sansar.1302]

On 2/1/2022 at 8:13 AM, Pati.2438 said:

@Buran.3796 Wait until EoD man. Both New e-specs are got pretty decent mobility. Also the only roam classes that are up are simply Deadeye, Longbow Ranger, daredevil, core thief, Herald, renegate. Also some people playing mes and warr but well both classes are actually too weak compared to everything Else.

Long bow ranger and herald is dead as roamers

[Myror.7521]

@Sansar.1302 hmm if ye why are there so many of them in wvw lmao xD the only class that see more play is thief xd

[Sansar.1302]

2 hours ago, Pati.2438 said:

@Sansar.1302 hmm if ye why are there so many of them in wvw lmao xD the only class that see more play is thief xd

Dont see many of them here atleast (eu) and ele is what i think is top roamer right now, necro and guardian is right upp there too.

Not saying that these classes vin vs every class and build but...

 

[Mik.3401]

On 1/24/2022 at 11:31 AM, mercury ranique.2170 said:

I suspect that your complaint is about competitive gameplay.
I can say a lot of stuff, but they come down to the same thing. Just cause you loose a game, you should look for the guilty part in the classes. The most important factor in success is still your own skill as a player. 
There can always be some improvement to balance, but it is and never has been out of balance, at least not as much as some sore loosers try to put it.

I agree but it also depends on how one defines balance. If thats strictly numbers on paper then we can debate for hours. But if that’s the ease of play then definitely the game is not balanced. But well if you want to go into PvP as warrior you sign up for  struggle it’s part of the game.

[Zekent.3652]

Ranger. Needed. Of. Buffs. Are we even playing the same game?

[Sansar.1302]

9 minutes ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

Ranger. Needed. Of. Buffs. Are we even playing the same game?

Yes they are.

After big direct dmg nerf a year+ ago they need a little buff,   and warrior warrior rly need a big big buff.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Sansar.1302

[mercury ranique.2170]

6 hours ago, Mik.3401 said:

I agree but it also depends on how one defines balance. If thats strictly numbers on paper then we can debate for hours. But if that’s the ease of play then definitely the game is not balanced. But well if you want to go into PvP as warrior you sign up for  struggle it’s part of the game.

That is exactly the point I'm making. It is the personal experience. The knee-jerk reaction when one looses a match is to look for the reason anywhere but in how they personally performed. It is either the opposing class who is OP or their class that is underpowered. Putting the blame on themself is the last thing people do. While, when you run the numbers, the first two reasons will mostly turn out invalid, or much less valid then claimed and it comes down more then claimed to the personal performance.

Due to the competitive nature, it is impossible to go against this situation. When bringing one class up you shift the effect to other classes. I'm not saying balance is strictly numbers on paper, but the players opinions are biased at best.

another factor is that any nerf or counterbuff (counterbuff is when other classes get buffed and yours is not) will echo for a long time, as people keep comparing their class to the situation before this buff/nerf. The contradiction between the numbers and the personal experience is enlarged by it even further.

[Sansar.1302]

9 hours ago, mercury ranique.2170 said:

That is exactly the point I'm making. It is the personal experience. The knee-jerk reaction when one looses a match is to look for the reason anywhere but in how they personally performed. It is either the opposing class who is OP or their class that is underpowered. Putting the blame on themself is the last thing people do. While, when you run the numbers, the first two reasons will mostly turn out invalid, or much less valid then claimed and it comes down more then claimed to the personal performance.

Due to the competitive nature, it is impossible to go against this situation. When bringing one class up you shift the effect to other classes. I'm not saying balance is strictly numbers on paper, but the players opinions are biased at best.

another factor is that any nerf or counterbuff (counterbuff is when other classes get buffed and yours is not) will echo for a long time, as people keep comparing their class to the situation before this buff/nerf. The contradiction between the numbers and the personal experience is enlarged by it even further.

Then you can look at pvp ladder, some classes IS underrepresented (and a decent indicator that they are not in a good spot )

[Dadnir.5038]

9 minutes ago, Sansar.1302 said:

Then you can look at pvp ladder, some classes IS underrepresented (and a decent indicator that they are not in a good spot )

Representation isn't a "decent" indicator of balance. Representation can be an indicator of what the player base like to play at a given moment but that's all. Nerfing and buffing based on player affinity is a ridiculous concept that can only lead to imbalance.

Everybody know that the sPvP ladder is, at best, unreliable as the gamemode is overflowing with bots and the top positions are often claimed through shaddy means. I'm pretty sure that if they really wanted, the guy in the top 10 could fill all positions with warriors. Would that make warrior OP? Nope, not one bit. Would that make some peoples think warrior are OP? Well, maybe.

[captrowdy.9561]

Buff ranger sic em please.