Will we Recieve our annual massive

[patton the great.7126]

Nerf to all pre existing Elite Specs to force us to play the new ones? You know like how they gutted Berserker just before PoF dropped, same for Druid and Chrono. Happened just before HoT too but it was massive nerfs to the base profs to boost the appeal of the Especs.

 

Don't get me wrong alittle shake up is good from time to time and it's not like this meta is all that fun anyway. 

 

Please leaver Berserker alone, it's suffered enough. Plus give Mirage is 2nd dodge back! 

[subversiontwo.7501]

I doubt it, considering that none of the new specs are built for the things in WvW that most players engage in.

While there is some application for some of the specs for different things in WvW, many of the new specs also suffer from not really doing what their design suggests them to do.

It feels more like (some of-) the specs were designed to fill holes in the greater WvW repertoire. I believe that the concept design for them was to do exactly this but that the concrete mechanical design or implementation of it has been rocky for several of the new specs. That is quite similar to other designs in the past (eg., Willbender similar to Soulbeast when it came out, seems to excel at other things than what the label suggests). Some of the new specs also suffer a bit from role confinement, it is hard to give something that really feels new to classes that to some extent already have everything (Vindicator and Bladesworn mainly competing with themselves for roles already existing within the classes, for example) or that they have tried to create completely new roles for specs that did not need it (eg., Spectre fills a support hole, but they went for unconventional support rather than to fill the hole and expand on available classes for existing support roles).

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 1/24/2022 at 4:07 PM, patton the great.7126 said:

Nerf to all pre existing Elite Specs to force us to play the new ones? You know like how they gutted Berserker just before PoF dropped, same for Druid and Chrono. Happened just before HoT too but it was massive nerfs to the base profs to boost the appeal of the Especs.

 

Don't get me wrong alittle shake up is good from time to time and it's not like this meta is all that fun anyway. 

 

Please leaver Berserker alone, it's suffered enough. Plus give Mirage is 2nd dodge back! 

 

I think we already got that from that nerf patch last year. That's what I took it as at least.

[captrowdy.9561]

Would be a bother because I really like soulbeast and spellbreaker. Also all the new elite specs blow. 

[ugrakarma.9416]

new specs is boring as hell, i wont will play them even if they get a 1000% damage boost.

[lovemghool.7613]

TBH aside from Vindicator I have no desire to play any of the new specs in WvW in any capacity 

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

On 1/24/2022 at 10:47 PM, subversiontwo.7501 said:

I doubt it, considering that none of the new specs are built for the things in WvW that most players engage in.

While there is some application for some of the specs for different things in WvW, many of the new specs also suffer from not really doing what their design suggests them to do.

It feels more like (some of-) the specs were designed to fill holes in the greater WvW repertoire. I believe that the concept design for them was to do exactly this but that the concrete mechanical design or implementation of it has been rocky for several of the new specs. That is quite similar to other designs in the past (eg., Willbender similar to Soulbeast when it came out, seems to excel at other things than what the label suggests). Some of the new specs also suffer a bit from role confinement, it is hard to give something that really feels new to classes that to some extent already have everything (Vindicator and Bladesworn mainly competing with themselves for roles already existing within the classes, for example) or that they have tried to create completely new roles for specs that did not need it (eg., Spectre fills a support hole, but they went for unconventional support rather than to fill the hole and expand on available classes for existing support roles).

It seems a bit strange to me for you to say that vindicator competes for a role already filled but that thief doesn't need specter when currently DPS is all thief does (and not even well). The spec clearly has issues and how exactly it pans out remains to be seen, but the last thing thief needed was another DPS spec that gets passed over in favour of daredevil. 

[subversiontwo.7501]

2 hours ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

It seems a bit strange to me for you to say that vindicator competes for a role already filled but that thief doesn't need specter when currently DPS is all thief does (and not even well). The spec clearly has issues and how exactly it pans out remains to be seen, but the last thing thief needed was another DPS spec that gets passed over in favour of daredevil. 

I think you misunderstood what I wrote, or I just didn't phrase it well enough.

I tried to say that Spectre fills a hole for the Thief on a concept level but as they went for single-target oriented mechanics it does not fill that hole (large-scale, support) as well as it could have.

Instead it now looks to just be a small-scale pocket healer, possibly with some other use at larger scale which feels uncertain but we can not know yet. If it doesn't fit into something else they missed the opportunity to fill that hole adequately. Being a small-scale pocket healer may be different, but it may not let the Thief expand beyond content where it already has strong options into content where it has weaker options. Ie., the Spectre could have been better.

Edited January 29, 2022 by subversiontwo.7501

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

2 hours ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

I think you misunderstood what I wrote, or I just didn't phrase it well enough.

I tried to say that Spectre fills a hole for the Thief on a concept level but as they went for single-target oriented mechanics it does not fill that hole (large-scale, support) as well as it could have.

Instead it now looks to just be a small-scale pocket healer, possibly with some other use at larger scale which feels uncertain but we can not know yet. If it doesn't fit into something else they missed the opportunity to fill that hole adequately. Being a small-scale pocket healer may be different, but it may not let the Thief expand beyond content where it already has strong options into content where it has weaker options. Ie., the Spectre could have been better.

Ahhh, apologies, yeah, I agree with everything you said here 🙂

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

On 1/24/2022 at 10:07 PM, patton the great.7126 said:

Nerf to all pre existing Elite Specs to force us to play the new ones? You know like how they gutted Berserker just before PoF dropped, same for Druid and Chrono. Happened just before HoT too but it was massive nerfs to the base profs to boost the appeal of the Especs.

 

Don't get me wrong alittle shake up is good from time to time and it's not like this meta is all that fun anyway. 

 

Please leaver Berserker alone, it's suffered enough. Plus give Mirage is 2nd dodge back! 

yet gunflame memes are still very potent, druid is pointless as its ranger, and chronomancer is even still a metaclass.

 

reaper only got gutted by the feb20 dps nerfs, since necro specs don't attack as fast and with rather stale animations but was before also usable and still is used in gvg comps afaik

 

however, i think overall we have the same advice for anet: DO NOT nerf good things, rather buff bad things anet kitten.

that to be said, for the Wvw-mode, quite some of the new elite specs should get buffs also. they aren't in a great spot overall

[patton the great.7126]

Nah man you forget, just before hot dropped literally 1 week out they absolutely gutted zerker. Now yes they reworked it, but the zerker build they gutted was far FAR TOO EFFECTIVE at zerg busting. They wanted spellbreaker to be the zerg meta. Same can be said for chrono and scrapper. It wasn't till enough time had passed and enough copies sold that they took a pass at bringing hot elites and to a somewhat lesser extent core in to line. 

 

You don't forget trauma like what they did to meh zerker. THERE WAS NO LUBE! 

[Xenesis.6389]

5 hours ago, patton the great.7126 said:

Nah man you forget, just before hot dropped literally 1 week out they absolutely gutted zerker. Now yes they reworked it, but the zerker build they gutted was far FAR TOO EFFECTIVE at zerg busting. They wanted spellbreaker to be the zerg meta. Same can be said for chrono and scrapper. It wasn't till enough time had passed and enough copies sold that they took a pass at bringing hot elites and to a somewhat lesser extent core in to line. 

 

You don't forget trauma like what they did to meh zerker. THERE WAS NO LUBE! 

You meant pof I'm sure...

 

Also... if this is the case.... kitten some of the old specs will need to be nerfed to the stone ages to try and sell possibly the worse specs created for the game so far.

[patton the great.7126]

On 1/30/2022 at 1:27 PM, Xenesis.6389 said:

You meant pof I'm sure...

 

Also... if this is the case.... kitten some of the old specs will need to be nerfed to the stone ages to try and sell possibly the worse specs created for the game so far.

Ya your absolutely right, pof not hot.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

On 1/30/2022 at 2:06 PM, patton the great.7126 said:

Nah man you forget, just before hot dropped literally 1 week out they absolutely gutted zerker. Now yes they reworked it, but the zerker build they gutted was far FAR TOO EFFECTIVE at zerg busting. They wanted spellbreaker to be the zerg meta. Same can be said for chrono and scrapper. It wasn't till enough time had passed and enough copies sold that they took a pass at bringing hot elites and to a somewhat lesser extent core in to line. 

 

You don't forget trauma like what they did to meh zerker. THERE WAS NO LUBE! 

i didn't forget anything, i started playing in jan2019 lol.

 

zerg busting isn't existing anymore with feb20 coefficient overkill anyways. it's impossible under normal circumstance by now.

spellbreaker's bubble alone makes it meta idk what u mean there. didn't i have it at release or what

[patton the great.7126]

4 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

i didn't forget anything, i started playing in jan2019 lol.

 

zerg busting isn't existing anymore with feb20 coefficient overkill anyways. it's impossible under normal circumstance by now.

spellbreaker's bubble alone makes it meta idk what u mean there. didn't i have it at release or what

Lol sorry didn't know you were a new guy.

 

Spellbreaker was only meta in large-scale zergs. It could not do what we needed in Zerg busting guilds. I wouldn't expect a newer person to know that high-level play though, wvw is only a shell of what it once was. 

[Justine.6351]

I play core mesmer so if they make it worse I will just disappear and continue not spending money on gw2.

[subversiontwo.7501]

On 1/30/2022 at 2:06 PM, patton the great.7126 said:

Nah man you forget, just before hot dropped literally 1 week out they absolutely gutted zerker.

21 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

zerg busting isn't existing anymore with feb20 coefficient overkill anyways. it's impossible under normal circumstance by now.

16 hours ago, patton the great.7126 said:

Spellbreaker was only meta in large-scale zergs. It could not do what we needed in Zerg busting guilds. I wouldn't expect a newer person to know that high-level play though, wvw is only a shell of what it once was. 

Not to rain on your pity party here, but I'm getting genuinely curious about these things and why they're always brought up in such absolutes instead of examples and numbers.

Like, if the Berserker was "absolutely gutted" in HoT why did the best guilds build entire comps around them until 2017? If things do not exist or are impossible now, how do you explain that similar guilds are still capable of doing it? If Zerkers are not large-scale and Breakers are not small-scale how would you explain their appearance there?

Many of these statements are easy to follow up because examples are being made by the same players who tend to get the most attention. That's not to say there are no grounds to discuss balance or whatever, but those absolute statements do not sit very well when the most obvious examples are to the contrary.

Edited February 2, 2022 by subversiontwo.7501

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

@patton the great.7126 there's enough good players left that have taught us everything, don't worry. from what i heard, the game never was different. that's surely a nice claim to make from your side,  but u cannot prove it.  we have enough people in Wvw that been there from release on and enough are still at best rookies. others surely still play, and from there we can tell about the skill levels.
even more, from people who been on breaks for times we see precisely how fast u get rusty. wannabe pros in pre HoT have only disadvantages bc they don't know any of the good specs outside core guard. and those pre PoF leavers also miss out enough meta specs.

 

any good guild can still destroy bad zergs. but thats the point, it's a skilllevel issue and it's a grind nevertheless.

 

with 5000 hours and 180k kills i'd not consider myself that big time new anymore. if u come back now into the game, you will notice that u have to relearn everything. old players won't be good all of a sudden again. we had some oldies who just ragequitted the game or dissolved their guilds, bc they just got farmed by everything literally.

 

zergbusting is more of a meme. u can bust bad zergs with a pugcloud of good players. not good zergs tho, unless u count dying 50 times for 1 kill as "zergbusting". if so: gz, big pro

@subversiontwo.7501 idk, if we go for a 2 hour long keepfarm on vabbi, there's not much sight of any omnious zergbusters. probs hiding in the forums behind claims. it's been rather feeding us so many kills (and our zerg was often <30 only), that the only busted stuff afterwards are our pockets, form all the lootbags

[subversiontwo.7501]

7 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 idk, if we go for a 2 hour long keepfarm on vabbi, there's not much sight of any omnious zergbusters. probs hiding in the forums behind claims. it's been rather feeding us so many kills (and our zerg was often <30 only), that the only busted stuff afterwards are our pockets, form all the lootbags

I think it's a forest for the trees thing. It isn't some fabled myth, it's just the same groups that tends to play 5's or 15's against other decent enough groups. They may lounge about with inhouses or scrims but when they do hit maps they have the capacity to play against larger groups or multiple groups. I watched one group repeatedly engage 4-5x their numbers only tonight. It's nothing spectacular, but that is sort of my point, it happens somewhat regularily so it is far from impossible or non-existant.

Edited February 2, 2022 by subversiontwo.7501

[patton the great.7126]

13 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

@patton the great.7126 there's enough good players left that have taught us everything, don't worry. from what i heard, the game never was different. that's surely a nice claim to make from your side,  but u cannot prove it.  we have enough people in Wvw that been there from release on and enough are still at best rookies. others surely still play, and from there we can tell about the skill levels.
even more, from people who been on breaks for times we see precisely how fast u get rusty. wannabe pros in pre HoT have only disadvantages bc they don't know any of the good specs outside core guard. and those pre PoF leavers also miss out enough meta specs.

 

any good guild can still destroy bad zergs. but thats the point, it's a skilllevel issue and it's a grind nevertheless.

 

with 5000 hours and 180k kills i'd not consider myself that big time new anymore. if u come back now into the game, you will notice that u have to relearn everything. old players won't be good all of a sudden again. we had some oldies who just ragequitted the game or dissolved their guilds, bc they just got farmed by everything literally.

 

zergbusting is more of a meme. u can bust bad zergs with a pugcloud of good players. not good zergs tho, unless u count dying 50 times for 1 kill as "zergbusting". if so: gz, big pro

@subversiontwo.7501 idk, if we go for a 2 hour long keepfarm on vabbi, there's not much sight of any omnious zergbusters. probs hiding in the forums behind claims. it's been rather feeding us so many kills (and our zerg was often <30 only), that the only busted stuff afterwards are our pockets, form all the lootbags

Don't be so insecure, it isnt becoming new old pro or w/e you would like to be called. No matter. The wvw stock has diminished to the point of rally bags and runners. Hardly anyone left from the premiere wvw guilds. What I wouldn't give to see those hell hounds in YUM again. Those mofos made 40 man zergs break with only 10. You don't see that kind of skill anymore. 

 

I'm not entirely sure why you took offense to my earlier post. You chimed in on something you admit you knew nothing about nor were you around for? I'm confused by your rant...

 

Seeing as how I never left I'd have to question your other point?