Let's be honest, other professions are the problem...

[Daddy.8125]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

That's nice but it's not a reason for anyone to think discussing your view for especs existing is relevant to why they exist in the game. 

Ofcourse its Relevant.

We are the People Anet are creating a product for. to Buy.

The Games survival Depends on US the players buying the stated Product.

Our Discussions and Views are what are important to the games survival.. Everyones Opinons on weather they do or do not like the direction of GW2 is VERY Important.

This game Didnt almost die and the Company almost go Bankrupt because its suceeding.

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Ofcourse its Relevant.

We are the People Anet are creating a product for. to Buy.

The Games survival Depends on US the players buying the stated Product.

Our Discussions and Views are what are important to the games survival.. Everyones Opinons on weather they do or do not like the direction of GW2 is VERY Important.

This game Didnt almost die and the Company almost go Bankrupt because its suceeding.

That doesn't mean your view of especs is relevant to why they exist. Anet creates things in the game based on their vision, not 'the peoples' vision. The especs offer playstyle flavours ... that's not debatable. That's intended. That's not debateable. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Daddy.8125]

3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That doesn't mean your view of especs is relevant to why they exist. 

but if no one has a Updated Reason to why they exist. Players Must look at common Denominators To guess why they exist..

If the Company dont communicate. People will do this. as u cannot prove my View is or isnt correct by the new standards of Elite development.

I.E point 3)

Elites exist. to Ship with Expansions. to increase the Intice of buying a Expansion. Elites exist. because Expansions Exist. and they cant just ship the Same Proffession with ther same Set up and Same meta repeatively and Reliable keep the games population stable.

they are a Solution to the concept of "continously releasing New Classes to the pool which slowly cause watered down differences "

Edited January 27, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

but if no one has a Updated Reason to why they exist. Players Must look at common Denominators To guess why they exist..

If the Company dont communicate. People will do this.

You don't know if they don't have an updated reason ... or if they even need one. I don't care if people's imaginations run away with them if Anet doesn't communicate with them ... that doesn't make those people right or relevant in discussions about why Anet does things. 

The fact is that especs offer playstyle flavour, as they were originally intended to. Nothing you will say changes that. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Daddy.8125]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

You don't know if they don't have an updated reason ... or if they even need on. The fact is that especs offer playstyle flavour, as they were originally intended to. I don't care if people's imaginations run away with them if Anet doesn't communicate with them ... that doesn't make those people right or relevant in discussions about why Anet does things

and neither do you.

the fact of the matter is. the only proof their Reasons Lays in PoFs Design and how you think about them.

GW2s Wiki is pretty accurate as the company do actually contribute to it.. and it states they exist to Expand the Abilities and capabilities of the Proffessions.

a New Role Could be described as Expanding the abilities and capabilities of a proffession.

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

and neither do you.

Well, that's just not true. Anet told us that's the intention of especs is playstyles flavour, even if they don't re-iterate it every 10 minutes to you to prevent you from denying it.

 I mean, even if you want to argue especs are about roles ... how's that working out for you? No? OK then ... but you stick with what you want to believe and continue wondering why things happen in the game that you think shouldn't. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Daddy.8125]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, that's just not true. Anet told us that's the intention of especs is playstyles, even if they don't re-iterate it every 10 minutes to you to prevent you from denying it.

we arent talking a 10 minute iteration.

We are saying. PoF Elites Directly Conflicts with the Orignal Statement. So the motives have clearly changed.

Either 1)

That quotes stil lheld and is a Lie as Anet went completely against it with the introduction of PoFS elites.

or 2) that Quote is outdated and Anet havent Lied we just no longer know their true purpose.

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Daddy.8125 said:

we arent talking a 10 minute iteration.

We are saying. PoF Elites Directly Conflicts with the Orignal Statement. So the motives have clearly changed.

Either 1)

That quotes stil lheld and is a Lie as Anet went completely against it with the introduction of PoFS elites.

or 2) that Quote is outdated and Anet havent Lied we just no longer know their true purpose.

We shouldn't need to talk about ANY iteration ... but if you want to believe especs are because 'roles', then I can't stop you. Just don't be surprised when some especs don't do that .. including ALL of the warrior ones. 

Just because some POF specs gives a role that they can be identified with doesn't mean it conflicts with the idea that especs are there for playstyle flavour ... so ... believe what you want. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Daddy.8125]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

We shouldn't need to talk about ANY iteration ... but if you want to believe especs are because 'roles', then I can't stop you. Just don't be surprised when some especs don't do that. 

I aint stating they exist only for that Reason. As i said.. many roles have been repeated. Weaver and Core are good examples. aswell as Daredevil and Thief.

What im stating is.

your Quote is from a period of time where Anet expressed the intentions of Elites, were to not be Upgrades from Core, but to add new Playstyles and Flavours to the proffessions.

HOWEVER

ALOT of the elites that currently exist very much Make that statement a Lie, as the Elites ARE upgrades to Core proffessions. shown by the fact they got given 10 man boons compared to Cores 5, they got Utility their core counterparts cant access and power creep which is exclusively given to the Elite specc and Not to the core proffession.

THus Proves. that Elites are direct upgrades to the Core design.

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

THus Proves. that Elites are direct upgrades to the Core design.

OK that's nice ... but again, this is just an example of you arguing with me about something I'm not making a point about. I don't care if you proved it ... it has NOTHING to do with what you are trying to argue with me about . 

The especs are there to give playstyle flavours ... if they are upgrades from core or not ... has NOTHING to do with that. How something feels to play is not related to how well it performs doing that thing. I will not be misunderstood in what I say by your tendency to go off the rails. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Daddy.8125]

8 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OK that's nice ... but again, this is just an example of you arguing with me about something I'm not making a point about. I don't care if you proved it ... it has NOTHING to do with what you are trying to argue with me about . 

but it does.

you used a Quote to state new roles and things were not the aim with Elites which has been proven a Lie. I.E Likely no longer applicable to modern day Anet.

The Entire point of this Thread is to state Warriors are not uptoo the same standard as Other Elite Proffessions yet you deny discussion into that. Because thats what this thread is. a COMPARISON between Warrior and other proffessions. and argue some sorta point that to argue about Warrior it should be put in the eyes of Anet to be successful. yet No.

No Developer should be Developing a game they aim to sell to OTHER PEOPLE, to their OWN Desire, thats when game development is Terrible lol, the idea of creating a Product. is creating a product that meets a Audiences Demand to Get SALES and a profit line from that product.

if theres Statistical Evidence that More people leave the game then Join the game.

If theres statistical Evidence to show the vast Majority arent Using the stated Product.

and if theres Evidence that People arent happy with specific areas of the game.

then the company should likely do something about it, and before u say there "isnt" there is. under 10% of this games Orginal Playerbase still play the game. this game was Averaged at about 10million sales on its Release. the Playerbase is Below 500k by Statistical Counts done using Addons to track Player numbers in the game.

P.S that isnt cause Pre-launch. this games numbers have been tracked since before PoF launch. its been 500k Even when new content was being launched.

the vast majority of people who did invest i nthis game. No longer invest in this, thats factual. this game Doesnt exist by outside peoples views because barely anyone remembers it, because its So gone off the radar for people.

I thought this game had Been switched off, it was only til a twitch person Raided a person playing this game i actually was proven wrong Lmfao. ALOT of us think this games been switched off. the last we heard on it was the Company firing 300 people to prevent going bankrupt ontop of that theres Litterally nothing around to even indicate this games alive xD. no one talks about it, no one knows it. Lmfao.

the most advertisement this game has. is the fact asmongold Regularly says the games a Dead Waste of space continously  on his stream lol.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

 

Quote

The Entire point of this Thread is to state Warriors are not uptoo the same standard as Other Elite Proffessions yet you deny discussion into that.

Actually,  I didn't do that at all .. I agreed warrior is behind (this isn't the first time you didn't pay attention to what I said to argue with me). I just disagree that the primary reason Warriors fall behind is related to espec power creep. I get you have a vested interest in proving it is about espec power creep, so you can argue Warriors should be better at 'roles' ... we all know how that will work out.  In fact, we will see in a month how role-oriented Bladesworn is. ... because apparently I'm a big liar when I say especs are about playstyle flavour. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Daddy.8125]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Actually,  I didn't do that at all .. I agreed warrior is behind. I just disagree that the primary reason Warriors fall behind is related to espec power creep. I get you have a vested interest in proving it is about espec power creep, so you can argue Warriors should be better at 'roles' ... we all know how that will work out. 

That doesnt make Sense tho.

if in the Core game. Warriors were on par with every other proffession almost.

and its only been since the introduction of New Elites Warriors have fallen further and further behind. What else but power creep would create such a thing to happen?

do u even know why warriors are bad in PvP?

Edited January 27, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Daddy.8125 said:

That doesnt make Sense tho.

if in the Core game. Warriors were on par with every other proffession almost.

That's highly debatable if you ask me. But I see little reason to debate something so subjective with you. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Daddy.8125]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

That's highly debatable if you ask me. 

right lemme explain.

Warriors are bad in current Meta because a Sidenode Role doesnt exist in the Meta PvP teams right now. this is because of the Power of Thief Roaming and the fact Holosmith and Renegade can BOTH Duel and Teamfight. so the need for a Sidenoder is Redundent.

Because Warriors ONLY role in SPVP is a SIDE NODE ROLE, it is BAD in SPVP

So do i think giving Warriors a Secondary role in SPVP would contribute to creating a Better place for Warrior? YES. because the Side node role DOESNT EXIST ANYMORE.

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

right lemme explain.

Warriors are bad in current Meta because a Sidenode Role doesnt exist in the Meta PvP teams right now. this is because of the Power of Thief Roaming and the fact Holosmith and Renegade can BOTH Duel and Teamfight. so the need for a Sidenoder is Redundent.

Because Warriors ONLY role in SPVP is a SIDE NODE ROLE, it is BAD in SPVP

So do i think giving Warriors a Secondary role in SPVP would contribute to creating a Better place for Warrior? YES. because the Side node role DOESNT EXIST ANYMORE.

OK ... so warriors are bad in PVP and giving them a different role in pvp would make it better for them. I don't see the relevance to the point you are disagreeing with me about. Seems to me that if your claim that Anet implementing especs was about roles was true, then this shouldn't be happening ... go figure. 🤔

Edited January 27, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Daddy.8125]

8 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OK ... so warriors are bad in PVP and giving them a different role in pvp would make it better for them. I don't see the relevance to the point you are disagreeing with me about. Seems to me that if your claim that Anet implementing especs was about roles was true, then this shouldn't be happening ... go figure. 🤔

well that goes back to the title.

Anet have consistently ensured this problem doesnt affect any proffession excluding Warriors. Warriors are the only exception to the rule.

and it isnt happening. For every other Specc in the game Excluding Warrior.. and this title.. is about that.. go figure.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

well that goes back to the title.

Anet have consistently ensured this problem doesnt affect any proffession excluding Warriors. Warriors are the only exception to the rule.

... or maybe there isn't a conspiracy against warriors in the first place and the problem is inherent to the fundamentals of how warrior is designed. 🤷‍♂️

Edited January 27, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Daddy.8125]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

... or maybe there isn't a conspiracy against warriors in the first place and the problem is inherent to the fundamentals of how warrior is designed. 

that could be true.

but there are the same Problems inherent to the Fundamentals to almost every Proffessions Design.

the difference is other Proffessions problems got band-aided by elites Power Creep. while Warriors did not.

[Obtena.7952]

7 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

that could be true.

but there are the same Problems inherent to the Fundamentals to almost every Proffessions Design.

the difference is other Proffessions problems got band-aided by elites Power Creep. while Warriors did not.

Other professions being power crept are not the cause of warriors deficiencies. Those deficiencies always existed, (and my hypothesis is that the key deficiency there is the low number of  actions)  they are just more obvious as other classes out-creep warrior. In the past, when there was not much variety, those deficiencies were manageable and warrior could compete. 

In otherwords ... other classes are not the problem with warrior. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Daddy.8125]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Other professions being power crept are not the cause of warriors deficiencies. 

No but its the cause of their own proffessions Not having Deficiencies.

The Power creep of as a Example of Tempest and Weaver are Directly responsible to elementalists Capability in SPVP. same for holosmith and Scrapper on Engineer.

When you Repair every Deficency to every Proffession excluding one. the Overall buff TO everything around the warrior Passively Nerfs to warriors capability because the % Drops.

[Obtena.7952]

8 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

No but its the cause of their own proffessions Not having Deficiencies.

The Power creep of as a Example of Tempest and Weaver are Directly responsible to elementalists Capability in SPVP. same for holosmith and Scrapper on Engineer.

When you Repair every Deficency to every Proffession excluding one. the Overall buff TO everything around the warrior Passively Nerfs to warriors capability because the % Drops.

Your language here is a little confusing. The 'reduction' of deficiencies on not-warrior classes has nothing to do with those on warrior. Warrior and it's especs design is independent of other classes. If other class especs experience power creep, that's simply making warriors deficiencies more obvious ... those other especs power crept builds doesn't create warriors deficiencies .. they are already there. 

I don't really get this disagreement you have with me ... whatever the deficiencies are on warrior, they aren't there because of how other non-warrior classes are designed. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Daddy.8125]

4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Your language here is a little confusing. The 'reduction' of deficiencies on not-warrior classes has nothing to do with those on warrior. Warrior and it's especs design is independent of other classes. If other class especs experience power creep, that's simply making warriors deficiencies more obvious ... thos other especs power crept builds doesn't create warriors deficiencies .. they are already there. 

I don't really get the disagree with me ... whatever the deficiencies are on warrior, they aren't there because of how other non-warrior classes are designed. 

What im saying is.

if every Player in the game has 20k HPS. and hardest hit is 2k, then u suddenyl buff every other proffessions Damage to 10k except 1 that 1 Becomes Passively nerfed because u've suddenly made its capability Weaker Compared to other proffessions by % of how much less Damage it can do while Statically carrying the same HP Pool as other options.

The fixs to other proffessions did not create the problems for warrior no. the Fact anet Fixed the other proffessions and DIDNT Fix warrior however made the enviroment Worse for the Warrior, because the Deficiencies are no longer shared but completely 1 sided.

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

30 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

What im saying is.

if every Player in the game has 20k HPS. and hardest hit is 2k, then u suddenyl buff every other proffessions Damage to 10k except 1 that 1 Becomes Passively nerfed because u've suddenly made its capability Weaker Compared to other proffessions by % of how much less Damage it can do while Statically carrying the same HP Pool as other options.

The fixs to other proffessions did not create the problems for warrior no. the Fact anet Fixed the other proffessions and DIDNT Fix warrior however made the enviroment Worse for the Warrior, because the Deficiencies are no longer shared but completely 1 sided.

 

My issue is that Anet didn't fix the other professions though ... power creeping via especs isn't a fix, it's a massive game-breaking mistake, especially if the especs weren't meant to do that. The warrior deficiencies were always there, even before especs, because they are fundamental to the class. They were simply more manageable as there was limited options at that time. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Daddy.8125]

28 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

My issue is that Anet didn't fix the other professions though ... power creeping via especs isn't a fix, it's a massive game-breaking mistake, especially if the especs weren't meant to do that. The warrior deficiencies were always there, even before especs, because they are fundamental to the class. They were simply more manageable as there was limited options at that time. 

well here we can agree

and if we were to look at the 2 i'd heavily prefer they revert the Power creep that band-aided the problems and see proper fixs made to the core proffessions including warrior and Be true to the concept of "NEw Elites give new playstyles". but for aslong as they bolt on the power creep to the elite speccs.

(I.E Giving Weaver barrier for Sustain. but not core, even tho core has the same sustain issue) Stacking Lapping affects (Ability to use several abilities at the same time without a Animation) and More. this problem Is going to persist. and if they're not gonna Revert it well they need to See the fact the Bar aint where it was no more.

If you want my personal opinon i think anet reliesed keeping core proffessions On par with Elites was a Net Profit Loss, thus because Players in SPVP And WvWvW dont need to buy expansions to play max level PvP and if competitive builds exist for f2p accounts People can just Churn out accounts I.E Not care about their behaviour etc etc because it because it becomes a Loop of making new accounts each time they're banned.

So Anet put the Power in the Elites and not in Core to enforce the Sales of Expansions to use Competitive builds.

Same as they've reverted back to allowing Legendaries to be buyable.. all Gen3 Legendaries can be sold on the trade market, thus Likely to encourage to Swipe your card to immediaterly buy the legendaries u want instead of having to make ur own like Gen2.

Anet seriously Doubled down too hard.

Core game F2P

Max level F2P

No new gear

No new max levels.

No Verticle progression.

PvP and WvWvW being accessible by F2P Accounts.

no new Proffessions or Races

i mean they litterally threw 3/4s of the Normal Motives to buying a Expansion out the window I mean. in a PvP player eyes the ONLY Selling factor of a Expansion is its Litteral Elite Speccs.

the game offers a PvP / WvWvW Player litterally nothing else, and imho thats Likely the core wall they're running into. "How to get PvP and WvWvW players buying our expansion". If its Not meta the New playstyle wont matter. because changing proffessions is too easy in these modes due to how they're designed to be done on a level 1 character.

they can just swap proffessions for this Same feeling.

They need to bolt something else onto the Expansions to Secure sales that way, and detract from the enforcement on Elites Selling the whole expansion (I.E PoF and the mount system). (I.E HoT with Gliding + Revenant)

EoDs Success rate in manys eyes will be the Elites Alone. as Fishing and strikes wont appeal to them. they need Core Features to sell the expansion. Fishing wont sell EoD. Metas Wont sell EoD while giving the same rewards as HoT. and Gen3s being buyable Means the content isnt Strictly needed either.

Either that or do something that locks the Requirement to purchase.

I.E Cap F2P accounts at 70.

I.E Make Ranked PvP not accessible to a F2P Account.

Introduce Player housing or a Stronger Feature.

Do something. that Eleviates the Pressure for Elites to Outdo core proffessions so they can then concentrate on the health of the overall Proffession insterad of the Parts of the Proffession that require a Expansion.

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Daddy.8125