Let's be honest, other professions are the problem...

[Puck.3697]

12 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Again, not going to discuss if the roles exist or not ... it's not relevant to my point that you are disagreeing with. Those 'things', WHATEVER you want to call them, do not force players to play a certain way to be successful. 

I mean, you can argue there are roles all you like ... but Anet isn't designing encounters to need them, so it's just an abstraction. If people decide to base their class choices based on abstract impositions created by players that lead them away from playing how they want to play ... that's not something Anet can fix for them. 

If it's all abstract impositions why was CmC talking about the new elites "roles" with teapot on a interview? 

Why has grouch from Anet also spoken on the roles? 

Anet have 120% acknowledged and stated Roles. And have even told people the Roles of the new proffessions 

They stated spectre was a "support role" for thief. 

weather you like it or not. Or if it's been true, EoD once again does have a new team which is discussing Roles. Which makes em a acknowledged way of play as of current. 

the current content doesn't require roles your correct as I stated. But this is due to the content not being at it's designed difficulty due to how power crept the game as of current is. 

current raids require 15k DPS... While proffessions are benching 40k and Condi exposed bursts are hitting 70k.

Given they've stated they're reverting the power creep. This will drop proffessions benching DPS and more which will continously add weight to boons existence. 

Anet intentionally implemented the ability for 100% uptime. Anet have intentionally spread overlaps which are growing, if they weren't intending us to use them they wouldn't have gone to these great lengths to drive it. 

The vast majority of humans will follow the path of least resistance. Boon builds are easier to play, with a higher success rates in all PvE content and are faster. 

Again I've provided the statistics. It's quite clear regardless of intention the vast majority of players in raids and fractals enviroments DO feel forced to play specific proffessions. 

You are a minority here barely anyone guild raids realistically. The PuG meta is a thing. And a thing even Anet have discussed. We are all very aware of it, we are merely waiting to see what Anet do about it as all balancing / changes have been delayed til after EoD launch. 

I do another source of evidence of player perception however from the PvP statistics. 

Since hardstuck.gg (a build guide website for every proffession) has listed a power core mesmer build, it's doubled in popularity and still growing. 

Regardless of how Non-meta this build is and it's actually pretty weak when things stack up having it on a website decided to providing builds has effectively massively grown the popularity of a build which isn't meta, isn't strong and mainly just "fun" 

In gold queues I see atleast 1 in 3 games. Where I never would see this build ever just stacks of Condi staff mirages I now rarely see staff mirages and alot of interupt / shatter mesmers since they put that guide up for it on there. 

I beleive hardstucks discord also has 10k players now?? In less then a year. So while yes they don't have every player going currently. But that's a pretty wide pool. And there is plenty of open world players among them. And by  algorithm the traffic of hardstucks website proves it's extremely popular among the playerbase. 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

22 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

If it's all abstract impositions why was CmC talking about the new elites "roles" with teapot on a interview? 

 

Maybe they are starting to designing content around roles in EoD ... but until then, those 'roles' don't force people to play certain ways, so it's not something they need to consider when making class choices. IF they do allow their choices swayed by things like roles that aren't needed, that's not something Anet needs to fix for them. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Maybe they are designing content around roles ... until then, those 'roles' don't tell people how to play, so it's not something they need to consider when making class choices

But player perception will espically if Devs are the ones involved in spreading the player perception.

Just because the games designed not to enforce it. Doesn't mean player perception won't enforce it. The players are the deciding factor in how the games played.

The Devs will never block you from content based on any playstyle weather it's correct or incorrect. However the players can make the access to content much harder based on what they want / think. 

Just because the Devs tell you oh you can play ele it can do all content. Doesn't mean the next 20 pugs you try join won't kick you. 

Anet never designed this game to make LI and stuff mandatory and used as "Kill proof" in raids. It's a currency to make legendary armour. 

That was enforced by the PuG players.. and before someone says "just make a 0 LI group" no one would apply lol. You aren't gonna be experienced enough to lead a Training run if you urself have 0 LI 

Your basically only entry into raiding from a pug point of view is to litterally spam join training runs ran by other players. 

[Obtena.7952]

3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

But player perception will espically if Devs are the ones involved in spreading the player perception.

Just because the games designed not to enforce it. Doesn't mean player perception won't enforce it. The players are the deciding factor in how the games played.

The Devs will never block you from content based on any playstyle weather it's correct or incorrect. However the players can make the access to content much harder based on what they want / think. 

Just because the Devs tell you oh you can play ele it can do all content. Doesn't mean the next 20 pugs you try join won't kick you. 

Anet never designed this game to make LI and stuff mandatory and used as "Kill proof" in raids. It's a currency to make legendary armour. 

That was enforced by the PuG players.. and before someone says "just make a 0 LI group" no one would apply lol. You aren't gonna be experienced enough to lead a Training run if you urself have 0 LI 

Your basically only entry into raiding from a pug point of view is to litterally spam join training runs ran by other players. 

Sure ... and as I said, Anet doesn't need to change the way the game works if some players perceive things different than the game is designed. If some players decide they are choosing classes because 'roles' even though the game doesn't require people to play roles to succeed, that's a choice they make ... with the consequences that go with it.  

I mean, at the core of this discussion is the fact that Anet determines the intended design, not players. If people are not 'using' the classes as they are intended by design, that's not a de facto reason for Anet to adjust that. That's true of any product or service offered from any company. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Obtena.7952]

4 hours ago, Pati.2438 said:

Imagine on my vision in Balance things about gw2 .... one time there will be every role filled by every class but at least all e-specs get its unique things something like this: 

Warrior

Berserker=Power or Condition dps

Spellbraker = kiter and boonstrip

Bladesworn =Power dps or Power Support (meme spec)

 

Maybe we will get something for at least a full supp as well.

 

So at the end there will be handkite,dps,Support

For all classes 

That's usually frowned upon ... but if Anet wants equal representation in the meta for all classes, that's the approach I think they need to take as well. Unfortunately, it fails when teams are smaller than the number of classes, which is the case for dungeons/fractals. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

6 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure ... and as I said, Anet doesn't need to change the way the game works if some players perceive things different than the game is designed. If some players decide they are choosing classes because 'roles' even though the game doesn't require people to play roles to succeed, that's a choice they make ... with the consequences that go with it.  

Actually ironically they do. 

Alot of the reason the game is the way it is ironically is because they haven't changed this. 

Content above open world is percieved as a absolute joke meaning your raiding / fractal quantities are diminishing. Because players looking for that content won't come here. 

Raiding and fractals need a severe up tweak, ontop of this need to equaled to player potiental. 

Currently you either play however u want don't care about comp etc etc and see a challenge. Or just stack the tools to hand to purely overpower it with power creep. 

If this game has 100% boon uptime ability. The content needs to be balanced around it's existence by not they shoot their own content in the foot before launch. Because every YouTube video and every speed run just completely destroys the games reputation to outside players due to the complete lack of difficulty. 

Speed run communities are more concerned with loading screens then they are about the content, if you beleive that's good advertisement for the game I don't rly know how to reply to you

Bosses need to be challenging at 40k DPS groups. If this harms the casual community. Gw2s own version of LFR would fix this issue. 

You can sustain both communities easily, WoW proves this on every level. 

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

24 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Actually ironically they do. 

No that's not true ... Anet does not need to change the game to accommodate some people that impose their own ideas of how it should work. The fact that the game has worked like this since it's inception proves that they don't. That isn't debatable. 

Maybe it's a good idea ... but that doesn't mean they need to do it. Again, whatever 'roles' people want to invent ... those 'roles' don't force people to play in a way they don't want to unless they do so by choice, so there is no need to change it because playing how you want is intended. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

14 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No that's not true ... Anet does not need to change the game to accommodate some people that impose their own ideas of how it should work. The fact that the game has worked like this since it's inception proves that they don't. That isn't debatable. 

if the game wants to actually attract players to the game.. and not wither and Die out like they did over the course of PoF ( Once again i will reference the fact the company litterally almost collasped)

Games Under 10k Players and your gonna try tell me this game doesnt need to try something. heres something funny. it isnt "Some". the VAST majority QUJIT THE GAME. people dont Quit because they are "Happy".

14 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Maybe it's a good idea ... but that doesn't mean they need to do it. Again, whatever 'roles' people want to invent ... those 'roles' don't force people to play in a way they don't want to unless they do so by choice, so there is no need to change it because playing how you want is intended. 

It doesnt need to do anything

but if it doesnt wanna Shut down by 2023 it Does actually need to. when will u accept, this game Didnt Close down. because NCSoft Saved them with Money, NCSoft however wont Stick around if they keep having to.

you actively ignore the Decline of the game to push "Arguments" about majorities. yet you dont seem to reliese People Quitting the game Is a Act of "I Dont like what ur doing Anet".

Edited February 3, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

if the game wants to actually attract players to the game.. and not wither and Die out like they did over the course of PoF ( Once again i will reference the fact the company litterally almost collasped)

 

No, you don't know if that will happen. The crystal ball argument is not valid. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

8 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No, you don't know that. 

Actually i ironically do. theres a Huge statement from Anet themselves After the huge mess they created when they instantly fired over 300 Employees to Save the company.

We do actually know this, how can someone who spends so much time around the media, honestly not have known this stuff?... this happened before i even started the game yet im aware of these things lmfao, hence why i thought this game didnt actually exist anymore and didnt come across sooner.

https://www.geekwire.com/2019/guild-wars-2-developer-arenanet-confirms-layoffs-canceled-projects/

heres just one article, where Anet Actually 100% agree that the current games Condition isnt Sustainable.

Citing an internal email, Kotaku reported that NCSoft West’s CEO Songyee Yoon told employees: “Our live game business revenue is declining as our franchises age, delays in development on PC and mobile have created further drains against our revenue projects, while our operating costs in the west have increased … Where we are is not sustainable, and is not going to set us up for future success.”

citation of exactly where

this was after 143 Arena net employees were terminated

Im sorry, but this companys Shed over 400 Employees since 2019. It at a point drowned down to 2 Developers surrounding the game in PoF, how can u not see the games been Drowning?

this game has sub 2k Viewers on twitch 10x Below other MMORPGS.

This game is one of the Lowest Viewed Content surrounding MMORPGS.

THis game has Some fo the lowest algoriuthems Around it concerning People googling gw2 compared to other MMORPGS.

it got dropped out the top 10 by ESO (Which is confirmed to have Less then 300k Players currently)

Which is Concrete evidence this game has less then 300k Players logging into it. this game started at 10million btw.

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

No, you don't know if the game how or why the game will fail. You don't have a crystal ball. You don't have silver bullets. I'm not continuing to have a discussion with someone that implies they can tell the future and how to prevent it. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No, you don't know if the game how the will fail. You don't have a crystal ball. I'm not continuing to have a discussion with someone that implies they can tell the future and how to prevent it. 

but i know the game DID Almost Collasp. When Anet Announced it Almost Collasped as a company.

and EoD has been Announced to be the Make or Break of the game itself by Anet themselves. this expansion was a Fight against the Decline of the game hoping to breathe Life into the game and overall Save it, EoD is trying to recreate FFXIVS Comeback with yoshi effectively.

the Declines proven. the Populartiy drowning is Proven. im sorry, but If somethings going down. and it the damage isnt reversing. it HAS to eventually reach 0. Thats Mathmatically the only option there. the problem is. People like you like to Plug their ears. and At people quitting the game Just simply ignore it.

Ignorance, doesnt save a Company. Sometimes you just have to Accept there are problems. and maybe Anets handling of the game is somewhat to blame for that, People dont Quit games, they Quit companies.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

but i know the game DID Almost Collasp. When Anet Announced it Almost Collasped as a company.

 

OK that's nice ... but it doesn't mean Anet needs to cater to people that impose their own ideas of how the game should work so it doesn't collapse again.

[Puck.3697]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OK that's nice ... but it doesn't mean Anet needs to cater to people that impose their own ideas of how the game should work so it doesn't collapse again.

So your telling. Anets decision SHOULD be to keep Ignoring the People quitting their games??

U either give the customer what they want. or you allow theto m leave, Pick ur Side realistically this isnt a "Grey zone matter" its increasingly Black and white.

again the problem isnt "catyering to people who imposee" the issue is they introducing INSANE Power creep which is Taking the DIFFICULTY out the game and NOT Balancing out the problem.

you cant say "we're giving u a 40k DPS Increase.. u could OPTIONALLY not use it as we wont balance around the Concept..." THats a REALLY dumb place to be. u either Balance Around that. or you Remove it.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

So your telling. Anets decision SHOULD be to keep Ignoring the People quitting their games??

U either give the customer what they want. or you allow them to leave, Pick ur Side realistically this isnt a "Grey zone matter" its increasingly Black and white.

I didn't 'tell' you anything of the sort .... I'm just not relying on your crystal ball predictions and silver bullet solutions to argue with me about what you think Anet needs to do. 

Again, whatever narrative you have or create, past, present or future ... does NOT mean Anet needs to change the game to cater to people that impose their own ideas of how the game should work.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

didn't 'tell' you anything of the sort. I'm just not relying on your crystal ball predictions and silver bullet solutions to argue with me about what you think Anet should do. 

I havent Crystal ball predicted Anything.

The company Almost Collasping SHOWED THE GAMES NOT SUSTAINABLE lmfao. u dont Just Kill half ur companys Employees and Do nothing and somehow come to a Fix.

If the games Not sustainable. It needs to become Sustainable. Which either means progress the trade post to the point the whales Massively spend money to cater for the game Or Increasing the popularity of the game to gain More Sources of income and Widen customers.

Im saying. That this Games PvE being a Absolute Joke is not a good Look for the game.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

I havent Crystal ball predicted Anything.

The company Almost Collasping SHOWED THE GAMES NOT SUSTAINABLE lmfao.

No, the company collapsing is about whether the business is sustainable or not ... 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No, the company collapsing is about whether the business is sustainable or not ... 

Business? U trying to same MMORPGS arent sustainable?.. Lmfao.

Untrue. and proven so a thousand times.

WoW, FFXIV, Rift, Everquest 1, 2 and the Development of 3, Lost Ark, and like 100 othjer Titles are all profitting off this "Business".

Business is Sustainable If the products good.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Business? U trying to same MMORPGS arent sustainable?.. Lmfao.

Untrue. and proven so a thousand times.

WoW, FFXIV, Rift, Everquest 1, 2 and the Development of 3, Lost Ark, and like 100 othjer Titles are all profitting off this "Business".

I don't get what you are trying to say here ... what I said was true. Nothing you are saying makes me think Anet's business is also not profitable. It wouldn't be here if it wasn't. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

don't get what you are trying to say here ... what I said was true. 

What im Saying. is ur trying to Divert this to a other reaosn other then "people dont like GW2".

and im stating thats Not.

MMORPGS Are successful. and Anet Prior this team were Successful.

The Decisions Made are the reason the games are Dying. and Anet need to start Reversing the Damage if they wish to make a comeback.

 

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Daddy.8125 said:

What im Saying. is ur trying to Divert this to a other reaosn other then "people dont like GW2".

and im stating thats Not.

MMORPGS Are successful. and Anet Prior this team were Successful.

The Decisions Made are the reason the games are Dying. and Anet need to start Reversing the Damage if they wish to make a comeback.

 

Nothing you have said here is an indication Anet's business isn't sustainable or profitable; if it wasn't, it wouldn't be here.

If it's not, the default solution isn't necessarily changing how the game works for a fraction of the players. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Nothing you have said here is an indication Anet's business isn't sustainable or profitable; if it wasn't, it wouldn't be here.

If it's not, the default solution isn't necessarily changing how the game works for a fraction of the players

Wow... Lmfao. because everything that isnt sustainable Dies in 1 day right?

No, Things Decline til they eventually are no longer here.

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

No, Things Decline til they eventually are no longer here.

Sure ... and that's not a reason for Anet to change the game to cater to some players that impose their own ideas of how the game should work. I mean ... don't assume that if Anet did this, the decline wouldn't happen. Again, crystal balls and silver bullets here. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure ... and that's not a reason for Anet to change the game to cater to players that impose their own ideas of how the game should work. 

Im not arguing to cater to people "imposing ideas on the game"

Again my argument is this:

Via allowing 100% boon uptime to be a OPTIONAL and making it such a Power Creep, it is creating a Disparity in Difficulty compared to other Methods, which makes this game Look like a Joke difficulty wise due to the factor that it Exists and is not Balanced around.

This game needs to be Balanced around EVERY Strategy to be Successful, because there needs to be a Challange to engage Players in content types as Raids.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

6 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Im not arguing to cater to people "imposing ideas on the game"

Again my argument is this:

Via allowing 100% boon uptime to be a OPTIONAL and making it such a Power Creep, it is creating a Disparity in Difficulty compared to other Methods, which makes this game Look like a Joke difficulty wise due to lack of the factor that it Exists and is not Balanced around.

So basically, the game is trivially easy because of 100% boon uptime? OK ... but that's got nothing to do with anything I've been talking about in this thread so I don't get what this has to do with what you are disagreeing with me about.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952