Nobody liked the FEB 2020 Patch.

[Genesis.5169]

And yet, people still ask for the same old nerfs.
Stupidity? Maybe? Selfishness? Most definitely?
My question is, after all of you in some shape or form blame the feb2020 patch for our pvp woes why do most of you not all AND I MEAN most advocate for nerfs after receiving a massive blanket nerf of the game and being unsatisfied. And how can it be possible for anyone myself anet god who ever i can find to facilitate you all sucking up your tears for 6months. (enough time for EoD to settle)

Thanks in advance.
 

Edited January 28, 2022 by Genesis.5169
Some day....the spvp front page wont be riddle with stupid unfounded nerfs...

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I think it's more that Feb2020 was only half finished, and people are clamoring for the other half already so we can get to the tweaks they promised from there.

 

Regardless, it was a failed balance methodology and the bulk of it should be reverted.

[saerni.2584]

I like the patch. It brought damage down and, sure, there are outliers on sustain or damage but that's not a problem with the patch just the sustained attention to balance (much more focus on EoD development). 
 

No patch can be perfect and I agree with the direction the patch brought us in.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

I liked the patch, I didn't like the lack of follow-up patch for rest powercreep though.
If you want to avoid same kind of balance patches in the future, don't bring powercreep to the table in the first place.

kthxbye

[Kuma.1503]

A lot of people here do like the patch. That number has been slowly dropping off over time. For a while It was just me and 1 or 2 others speaking out against it.

I'm glad that there are more people realizing that constant overnerfing won't bring them the kind of balance they're looking for, even if that realization cam a bit late, but there are still some who agree with that balance direction. 

Personally, the only thing I wanted from the Feb Patch was an increase in Time To Kill. I was still relatively new to the game back then so I was one of the players getting one shot left and right by veteran players. I found myself wishing fights would last longer so that I could process what was happening and learn from it. 

300 CD traits, killing boon duration and expertise, amulet removals, smiter's booning, trade-offs that just kill of builds or entire specs (See: Druid, Chrono, Mirage) Were all things that, even back then, I knew would be detrimental to the game. Unfortunately everyone else who wanted it had to learn that the hard way. 

A lot of this made intuitive sense.

Boons are a problem. Remove boon duration. Condi's last too long. Remove expertise.

The problem is that these stats exist as a means of balancing these mechanics. Forcing a boon-based build to sacrifice some of their stats for boon duration introduces a stat-based trade-off to these builds. It would have been better to bring down base boon duration and force builds to spec into this stat to be effective as a boon spamming build. 

Instead we remove this stat and force everyone to rely on what their boon durations are at base, effectively meaning that the few builds that CAN still spam boons do it for free... Those that can't have no way to bridge the gap between those that can. This is just one way the Feb patch created a divide between OP builds and weaker builds. 

This same line of reasoning also applies to expertise and amulets. 

I could go on about why the patch was a mistake, but i'd just be repeating what I've been saying for years now. 

 

Edited January 28, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Community at their wits end because they trusted Arenanet every time they said they'd take a look at pvp interactions and got put on the backburner every time. The patch had promise, but a half implemented idea isn't something I'm content with. 

That Cantha expack is on the backburner until I see results. I don't need to go on a Shing Jea tour right now/in Feb, it can wait. 

Bladesworn not being appealing to me was the best thing to happen, because now I can judge whether or not I support the expansion soley based on how they treat pvp post release. 

 

Edited January 28, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[aymnad.9023]

The patch was a good thing overall. There is no debate about that. It took some more patches after that but there are way more good builds now than there used to. It helped to lower the difference between the different options.

Could they have done a few more? Yes, I would have loved it but I can also see how the work on the beta specs takes time. While I can see some improvements to some traits / utilities in the future, I would be more inclined to see some shave to some professions (to bring them in line) then rework some unused traitlines.

There is and always will be some difference of gameplay and impact even between 3 builds using the exact same (e)spec. This is something that cannot be changed and most people fail to recognize or just want to ignore.

Edited January 28, 2022 by aymnad.9023

[Arheundel.6451]

2 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

A lot of people here do like the patch. That number has been slowly dropping off over time. For a while It was just me and 1 or 2 others speaking out against it.

I'm glad that there are more people realizing that constant overnerfing won't bring them the kind of balance they're looking for, even if that realization cam a bit late, but there are still some who agree with that balance direction. 

Personally, the only thing I wanted from the Feb Patch was an increase in Time To Kill. I was still relatively new to the game back then so I was one of the players getting one shot left and right by veteran players. I found myself wishing fights would last longer so that I could process what was happening and learn from it. 

300 CD traits, killing boon duration and expertise, amulet removals, smiter's booning, trade-offs that just kill of builds or entire specs (See: Druid, Chrono, Mirage) Were all things that, even back then, I knew would be detrimental to the game. Unfortunately everyone else who wanted it had to learn that the hard way. 

A lot of this made intuitive sense.

Boons are a problem. Remove boon duration. Condi's last too long. Remove expertise.

The problem is that these stats exist as a means of balancing these mechanics. Forcing a boon-based build to sacrifice some of their stats for boon duration introduces a stat-based trade-off to these builds. It would have been better to bring down base boon duration and force builds to spec into this stat to be effective as a boon spamming build. 

Instead we remove this stat and force everyone to rely on what their boon durations are at base, effectively meaning that the few builds that CAN still spam boons do it for free... Those that can't have no way to bridge the gap between those that can. This is just one way the Feb patch created a divide between OP builds and weaker builds. 

This same line of reasoning also applies to expertise and amulets. 

I could go on about why the patch was a mistake, but i'd just be repeating what I've been saying for years now. 

 

The main factor in this balance talk has always been the gw2 community, majority of players don't accept anything less than removal rather than rework, for the gw2 community nerfing means removing. Most discussions are based on emotions not objectivity..."delete thief.....delete pets....delete shadow art....delete cc...."  well at this point let's just close the servers and be done with it. Then we have the current team of devs who have opted for a policy of "appeasement" over game longevity, and simply add more bloated concepts over time to keep the game "alive"....

For better balance the first thingg which should happen is this community finally losing this idea of crush and burn everything that displease them.....but opening this forum from time to time, I have little faith in that ever happening 

[Eddbopkins.2630]

I don't like that they did such a one and done big kitten patch two years ago. Having lich 1 do 5k+ with quickness and making necro such a power house in general for the past two years is kinda lame for me.

Also not having a balance for 2v2 and 3v3 is also something that stops me from playing this game. As well since 2xnecroand healer guard rules the game.

I gota give credit to the forum developers. I accidentally closed this page but my wall of text was saved. I'm so happy for that. Thank you forum devs.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

It was a misguided effort from the start. 

Everyone says the update failed because Arenanet never followed up on it properly, but even the groundwork was messy.

 

There's nothing interesting about nerfing pretty much every skill and removing signature build options.

That's also a massive undertaking for a single person to take on their own, evident by how 300s CD traits still haven't gone beyond existing as placeholders nearly 2 years later.

 

New players hate it because it slows down combat and makes it super frustrating.

Top players hate it for the same reason, and because a bunker meta is a nightmare for a content creator because its boring to watch.

 

Literally the only people who enjoyed the feb 2020 patch and subsequent updates are the balance enthusiasts. The ones who would rather us all play bored out of our minds rather than for fun, all to satisfy their own wicked idea of a balanced Gw2 PvP experience.

 

Well done on putting this together. People are just loving fighting and playing as things like FT scrapper, and this nonstop game of playing whatever profession/elite spec that has the least nerfed mechanics/damage.

Anyone upset that their entire profession has fallen out of the meta completely clearly just needs to git gud and embrace the true endgame of complaining endlessly here on the forums. It is evidently more effective and damaging than anything done in game.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

it was amazing, I love 300 sec ICD

[xXxNikiGoesWildxXx.3678]

Patch was good step forward but that "forward" never happened. With reducing all damage and defenses they could just increase health pools and everything would be fine. 

[HokenPWNZ.7628]

0 damage CC- check

300 CD skills- check

bots- check

 

Its just boring to play spvp

[otto.5684]

There were several polls around the patch and a bit after. It is 40% like and 60% dislike. One of these had few hundred selections. 
 

If you decide to axe to the pvp balance, recreate the whole thing, and 60% of the player base do not like it, this is a massive failure. The Feb 2020 patch was failure of epic proportions. And had a significant impact on reducing the pvp player population. PvP was not doing too hot, but the patch killed it. 

[Dadnir.5038]

On 1/28/2022 at 4:12 PM, Genesis.5169 said:

And yet, people still ask for the same old nerfs.
Stupidity? Maybe? Selfishness? Most definitely?

A lot of people in competitive modes are driven by the will to "win". When it doesn't go their way and they should reflect on what they did wrong, they tend to blame the game instead and come here to complain. It is humane to do so, as it is difficult for anyone to accept that they are lacking.

[CroTiger.7819]

Patch was good because it was even worst before and as many here said it needed follow up which never came.

 

Biggest flaws of february patch and game overall:

1. boon duration doesn t need investment so healers are tanky by default. Base duration of boons are too high

2. expertise gone means that conditions are same for power and condi builds without investment leading condis to still be bursty and in same time meaningless in teamfights while power builds have same utility from conditions on same duration ( example weaknes on scourge and poison on power valkyrie core ranger). Base duration of condis is also very high and should be much lower without expertise investment. Condi builds should be more of a uptime condi with utilities and function like debuffs (heal decrease, slow etc) and less about burst. Result is actually less conditions in game since power builds can t upkeep them and condi builds cant burst anymore. Even whole condition damage idea is fail because only damaging condis are already having stack effect which increase dmg so i don t see reason to have it. 

3. this game has no interupt playstyle except pb mesmer and lets say thief everything else is hard cc resulting in everyone being forced to play few stunbreaks which end up the same. Many of hard cc skills are still badly telegraphed and some should act like interupts instead for example shortbow 5 on ranger (interupts means 1/4 sec daze ). Some cc skills need dmg back at least make them dmg like normal autoattack or make them can t crit.

4. tradeoffs are non doing justice and are incosistent

5. necro has 8 seconds poison cloud which weaknes malee with pulsing effect and block projectiles so anti malee/anti ranged. Yes it last 8 seconds and is still unsplited from pve. Thief have too much utility making them must have in team while also being very forgiving when in good hands. Reduce duration of aoe fields overall and game will be less chaotic and more skillfull and time based.

 

Edited January 29, 2022 by CroTiger.7819

[FarmBotXD.1430]

2 hours ago, otto.5684 said:

There were several polls around the patch and a bit after. It is 40% like and 60% dislike. One of these had few hundred selections. 
 

If you decide to axe to the pvp balance, recreate the whole thing, and 60% of the player base do not like it, this is a massive failure. The Feb 2020 patch was failure of epic proportions. And had a significant impact on reducing the pvp player population. PvP was not doing too hot, but the patch killed it. 

its funny because it made loads of people quit, cant vote when you gave up and moved onto a different game 😄
Me and 3 of my friends occasionally play pvp. In the last 6 months, all of us combined didnt play more then 10 games.

[viquing.8254]

I liked the patch because I didn't like playing cheesy full of passive FPS on GW2 prepatch.

Now I dislike the lack of changes since then.

Edited January 29, 2022 by viquing.8254

[Shao.7236]

I like it, actually have to try to get results ever since. Too bad it's still unfinished and most players go out of there way to exploit the oversights.

 

It's not to say nothing deserves to be reverted, some stuff definitely got hit way too hard but not enough for one of any profession being literally unplayable.

[Aktium.9506]

I liked it. Damage had gotten way too high. The damage and the sustain existing at the levels it did was in and of itself incredibly limiting from a balance design point of view. Bringing the extremes down to a manageable level was a necessary prerequisite for balancing further down the line and making space for more elite specializations. The main problem was indeed that not a lot happened further down the line. In an ideal world, Feb 2020 would have been used as a pivot to help further create a working space for classes to specialize in unique niches and playstyles that were previously outright denied from existing in the high burst meta.

[Zekent.3652]

I liked the patch, and well deserved nerfs are good and inevitable after EoD lol.

[Widmo.3186]

February 2020 patch was okay if they continued updating and fixing meta/balance constantly (as they promised to).
But it didnt happen, and because of that this patch was really, reeeally bad. Gave more canc*rous builds than there were before, promotes bunker gameplay, destroyed some classes completly (or at least 3/4 of their builds), and just straight up made game even more boring than it used to be. Like for real, after patch meta was not about what is good, but what was least nerfed or forgotten to be nerfed. Great balance system, focused on lack of skilled dev team xD.

For many people that I know this patch was like a nail in the coffin, game just became too boring to play it like a main entertaining free time game, for some even too boring to play it at all. 

I feel like its just a hallmark of ANet - lots of promises, one patch that could be beginning of the new, fresh, better start, and then complete waste and situation becomes worse than before. Oh, and also lets dont forget lots of excuses. Q_Q covid, Q_Q new expansion, Q_Q life is hard. What a joke, biggest advantage of gw2 in MMO market is its lack of monthly sub compared to like WoW or FF14.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Widmo.3186

[ollbirtan.2915]

Fun fact - 300 ICD "placeholder" traits are unlikely to be reworked ever. Why? The have new 300 ICD traits on EOD specs in sPvP. What a circus. 

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

8 hours ago, ollbirtan.2915 said:

Fun fact - 300 ICD "placeholder" traits are unlikely to be reworked ever. Why? The have new 300 ICD traits on EOD specs in sPvP. What a circus. 

For real? I don't remember any of the new specs having any 300s traits

 

If they actually do, that would be horrible. There's a lot resting on this new xpac and it would be beyond 🤡 to release any of it unfinished

[BobbyT.7192]

11 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

For real? I don't remember any of the new specs having any 300s traits

 

If they actually do, that would be horrible. There's a lot resting on this new xpac and it would be beyond 🤡 to release any of it unfinished

Spectre has a 300 traits, and not really a good one anyway.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shallow_Grave

On topic: imo they did alot of work to the skills when damage could have been adjusted with the numbers on the weapons themselves. Then you wouldn't need the splits as much (out side of your CC skills i guess).

Edited January 31, 2022 by BobbyT.7192