Minimally Invasive Buff to Spell

[oscuro.9720]

How to make spell be more competitive in the least invasive way possible?

Change Breaching Strike and Dispelling Force to boon steal instead of boon strip. 

Edit: or just add to a minor that all noon strip becomes boon steal.

Edited January 29, 2022 by oscuro.9720

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 minutes ago, oscuro.9720 said:

How to make spell be more competitive in the least invasive way possible?

Change Breaching Strike and Dispelling Force to boon steal instead of boon strip. 

Do the same with Enchantment Collapse and Break Enchantments.

Mmmm imagine ripping 25 might off of 5 different people.... With Phalanx Strength and MMR...

[oscuro.9720]

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Do the same with Enchantment Collapse and Break Enchantments.

Mmmm imagine ripping 25 might off of 5 different people.... With Phalanx Strength and MMR...

I left off break enchantment because it literally says “break”. Enchantment collapse is good. Pop a WOD in a Zerg and have ALL the boons. 

[DemonCrypto.6792]

one obvious  thing to change , natural healing (e-spec heal), it's ussless
delete the self boons strip 
maybe make the condi recieved converted into boons for 3-4s

Edited January 28, 2022 by DemonCrypto.6792

[Yasai.3549]

Imo it's more beneficial if SpB of all Warrior traitlines got some Resolution love. 
Change Revenge Counter's Resistance gain to Resolution, and increase Resolution's effect by 50%. That's what they really need right now imo. 

[Zekent.3652]

Since they nerfed loss aversion damage to the ground, CCs damage (a big part of warrior's damage back in the day), and FC daze duration, at least give LA (loss aversion) and FC, their damage back, slightly of course.

Spellbreaker needs to punish the boon spam more, this would help.

FC is a daze, every daze have damage in this game, except mesmer F3 and FC, and you can't even proc FC by your own.
 

[Vancho.8750]

4 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Imo it's more beneficial if SpB of all Warrior traitlines got some Resolution love. 
Change Revenge Counter's Resistance gain to Resolution, and increase Resolution's effect by 50%. That's what they really need right now imo. 

You need the Resistance so you don't sit there blind and weakened, it will be better to be just special effect like endure pain and revert it to the old resistance and call it endure curse or some kitten like that. 

[Yasai.3549]

23 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

You need the Resistance so you don't sit there blind and weakened, it will be better to be just special effect like endure pain and revert it to the old resistance and call it endure curse or some kitten like that. 

But Warrior already has plenty of Resistance from utility skills, they seriously lack the Condi damage reduction. 
Or we can have Revenge Counter instead of dealing 20% more Full Counter damage, grant Barrier + additional Barrier per enemy hit. 

At least Barrier is a form of additional health that could help stave off condi damage. 

[Vancho.8750]

34 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

But Warrior already has plenty of Resistance from utility skills, they seriously lack the Condi damage reduction. 
Or we can have Revenge Counter instead of dealing 20% more Full Counter damage, grant Barrier + additional Barrier per enemy hit. 

At least Barrier is a form of additional health that could help stave off condi damage. 

Or or, listen to this , not to kitten up resistance on generally balanced profession without recompance after, my solution returns it to an old status that is proven to work without being op. Another is adding some trait in defense that basically reverts the nerf by making resistance give 100% condi damage reduction.
Also it does not have plenty of resistance it has 4 instances 2 of which are on spellbreaker, the utility skills are way too valuable on warrior to be spent on half measure slot skills. 
The whole purpose of Revenge counter is to let you gather conditions and then copy them to others and resistance gave guarantied chance of a hit all the while protecting you just long enough to make it valuable to play more upfront and riskier.

For the barrier thing, it always comes with some drawback to it and I do not think Warrior can handle even more drawbacks.

[Hotride.2187]

Boon steal does nothing for me, if I cant boon strip in the first place.

You land a breaching strike, great, you got 3 boons. And then what? Does your target still have stability? Well kitten. You somehow stripped the stability and it isn't pulsing? You strip everything and you have a fair chance of winning (if you are in wvw, they just spam the boons back up in the next 10 seconds, but that is a different story).

Where does the boonsteal help? Nearly every spec worth using has some sort of stability source; they pop that and they facetank you to do the melee part of their dmg (and the rest of the time they kite with ranged damage).

Edited January 29, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

9 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Boon steal does nothing for me, if I cant boon strip in the first place.

You land a breaching strike, great, you got 3 boons. And then what? Does your target still have stability? Well kitten. You somehow stripped the stability and it isn't pulsing? You strip everything and you have a fair chance of winning (if you are in wvw, they just spam the boons back up in the next 10 seconds, but that is a different story).

Where does the boonsteal help? Nearly every spec worth using has some sort of stability source; they pop that and they facetank you to do the melee part of their dmg (and the rest of the time they kite with ranged damage).

Which is why I mentioned BE.

[Hotride.2187]

5 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Which is why I mentioned BE.

Do I get an extra utility slot for that? Cause no way I'm using it for stealing 2 essentially random boons. What do I replace?

Edited January 29, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Zekent.3652]

1 hour ago, Yasai.3549 said:

But Warrior already has plenty of Resistance from utility skills.

Warrior is not a class that shines by that, featherfoot grace and berserker stance got both nuked.

[Yasai.3549]

41 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

Or or, listen to this , not to kitten up resistance on generally balanced profession without recompance after, my solution returns it to an old status that is proven to work without being op. Another is adding some trait in defense that basically reverts the nerf by making resistance give 100% condi damage reduction.
Also it does not have plenty of resistance it has 4 instances 2 of which are on spellbreaker, the utility skills are way too valuable on warrior to be spent on half measure slot skills. 
The whole purpose of Revenge counter is to let you gather conditions and then copy them to others and resistance gave guarantied chance of a hit all the while protecting you just long enough to make it valuable to play more upfront and riskier.

For the barrier thing, it always comes with some drawback to it and I do not think Warrior can handle even more drawbacks.

And what makes you think reverting the Resistance nerf to Warrior is the way to do it? The entire point of the Resistance nerf was to stop Resistance uptime heavy builds from flat out ignoring Condi damage, so such a revert will never happen. 

I think Barrier is a pretty balanceable mechanic which is why I suggested it for Revenge Counter. So instead of Revenge Counter increasing FC damage by 20% and giving Resistance, it will instead give Resistance and Barrier. And besides, FC does garbage damage in competitive modes these days so the 20% damage is basically pointless. And in PvE, the 20% damage isn't even that great on FC anyway. 

I think it's a good way to allow SpB to tank through Condis through Barriers instead of going the route of immunity, which old Resistance basically was. 

I mean yea sure if we just consider that no one gives a crap about balance, then sure give back the immunity, I hate Condi spamming builds anyway, issue is Anet will never revert back to Immunity. 

 

11 minutes ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

Warrior is not a class that shines by that, featherfoot grace and berserker stance got both nuked.

Are you sure? Berserker Stance is still the same as ever, 4s of 1s Resistance pulsing. 
In terms of Resistance gain, Warrior still has a good amount of that between Revenge Counter and Berserker Stance. Nothing about these skills were nerfed, rather the Boon they granted got gutted. That is not the same thing. 

The dude was talking about Resistance as an anti-debilitation Boon, like Blinds and Cripples. Resolution is now what reduces Condition Damage taken, which Warrior doesn't enjoy at all, which is why we are talking about making changes to SpB for them to resist Condi damage again. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

17 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Do I get an extra utility slot for that? Cause no way I'm using it for stealing 2 essentially random boons. What do I replace?

Your call. Bit it's non cc boon rip which you were just complaining about.

[Yasai.3549]

43 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Boon steal does nothing for me, if I cant boon strip in the first place.

You land a breaching strike, great, you got 3 boons. And then what? Does your target still have stability? Well kitten. You somehow stripped the stability and it isn't pulsing? You strip everything and you have a fair chance of winning (if you are in wvw, they just spam the boons back up in the next 10 seconds, but that is a different story).

Where does the boonsteal help? Nearly every spec worth using has some sort of stability source; they pop that and they facetank you to do the melee part of their dmg (and the rest of the time they kite with ranged damage).

Boonsteal is extremely powerful. 

Why do you think fighting Thieves always feel unfair? Cos they have a 17s steal which rips 3 boons from you and applies it to themselves. The most common Boons out there in competitive is Stability, Might and Fury. The more frequent ones aside from these 3 are Protection, Regen and Vigor. 

Competitive has long been about Boon control, and being able to strip someone's Boons and take them for yourself is a massive advantage, which is also why Necros and SpB are absolutely necessary for WvW zerging, because it's a constant tug of war of Boon application and Removal for both armies. 

Just think about it : 
Someone has Stability, 25 Might and Vigor. The moment you steal these three, you deny them these three Boons for a split second and buff yourself up to overpower them with. So what if they keep pooping out Boons? SpB has alot of Boon ripping and this isn't even counting things like Sigil of Absorption which Steals 3 Boons when you Interrupt someone. That's so much Boonstealing on a rotation you can effectively turn someone's Boon pooping into their own downfall. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by Yasai.3549

[Vancho.8750]

10 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

And what makes you think reverting the Resistance nerf to Warrior is the way to do it? The entire point of the Resistance nerf was to stop Resistance uptime heavy builds from flat out ignoring Condi damage, so such a revert will never happen. 

I think Barrier is a pretty balanceable mechanic which is why I suggested it for Revenge Counter. So instead of Revenge Counter increasing FC damage by 20% and giving Resistance, it will instead give Resistance and Barrier. And besides, FC does garbage damage in competitive modes these days so the 20% damage is basically pointless. And in PvE, the 20% damage isn't even that great on FC anyway. 

I think it's a good way to allow SpB to tank through Condis through Barriers instead of going the route of immunity, which old Resistance basically was. 

I mean yea sure if we just consider that no one gives a crap about balance, then sure give back the immunity, I hate Condi spamming builds anyway, issue is Anet will never revert back to Immunity. 

 

Are you sure? Berserker Stance is still the same as ever, 4s of 1s Resistance pulsing. 
In terms of Resistance gain, Warrior still has a good amount of that between Revenge Counter and Berserker Stance. Nothing about these skills were nerfed, rather the Boon they granted got gutted. That is not the same thing. 

The dude was talking about Resistance as an anti-debilitation Boon, like Blinds and Cripples. Resolution is now what reduces Condition Damage taken, which Warrior doesn't enjoy at all, which is why we are talking about making changes to SpB for them to resist Condi damage again. 

The problem with the Resistance nerf is that they forgot warrior existed and had resistance, they were doing some dumb nerfs on that bunker rev build and just decided to delete it one day, too bad warrior got in the crossfire even though it wasn't performing well at all .Yes it is wishful thinking that a condi damage reduction trait will happen but it is not that far off since there are multiple if you have protection you get x condi damage reduction and what not traits. Resolution and barrier seem even more unlikely to me though since they have been nerfing the power and access on these for warrior allot. Also I'm more inclined for buffs across warrior instead of just SpB.

The barrier idea is cool and all, but i think it should be AOE and give some team support on SpB since there was that support build in pvp that was at least a different option of gameplay, might even sneak in as protector build in PVE ala scourge.    

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I still think there should be a global condition duration reduction trait somewhere in core warrior. That would go a long way in helping all the warrior specs.

[Zekent.3652]

Spellbreaker is a spec that specializes on fighting mages and neutralizing enemies where "they're strong", and stills underperforms on both.

[Yasai.3549]

13 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

dumb nerfs on that bunker rev build and just decided to delete it one day, too bad warrior got in the crossfire even

You know what the dumb part is? After people complained about Pain Absorb, Anet put Resolution on it! Meanwhile Warrior mains were going like "BRUH ANET HOW BOUT US?" and you know what they did? They put Resolution on a 15s CD if you were crit'd in Defense.

Bruh.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Yasai.3549

[Zekent.3652]

38 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Are you sure? Berserker Stance is still the same as ever, 4s of 1s Resistance pulsing. 
In terms of Resistance gain, Warrior still has a good amount of that between Revenge Counter and Berserker Stance. Nothing about these skills were nerfed, rather the Boon they granted got gutted. That is not the same thing. 

The dude was talking about Resistance as an anti-debilitation Boon, like Blinds and Cripples. Resolution is now what reduces Condition Damage taken, which Warrior doesn't enjoy at all, which is why we are talking about making changes to SpB for them to resist Condi damage again. 

Basically, indirect nerfs, from the resistance nerf and the direct one from the stances nerfed trait. These skills are just not built for this change, like other warrior things (not just resistance, but that's a different topic).

[Hotride.2187]

57 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Someone has Stability, 25 Might and Vigor. The moment you steal these three, you deny them these three Boons for a split second and buff yourself up to overpower them with. So what if they keep pooping out Boons? SpB has alot of Boon ripping and this isn't even counting things like Sigil of Absorption which Steals 3 Boons when you Interrupt someone. That's so much Boonstealing on a rotation you can effectively turn someone's Boon pooping into their own downfall. 

I duel in wvw with sigil of absorption day in day out. Your stripping is not enough for: boonbeast, scrapper, cele fb. Very often its also not enough vs cele rev and regular SB, I've also dueled cele tempest builds here and there where it also wasn't enough.

Your target is not sitting there and doing 111, they are vomiting out damage you must evade or outsustain, they are evading themselves, porting, going ivuln, stealthing, stunreaking, popping superspeed, CCing you, and so on.

E.g. today I had a duel with a condi cele (probably not full cele tbh) scrapper, running away with superspeed, dome, perma regen, 50% stability uptime and throwing grenades behind them. They were very bad, were not dodging what they should have been dodging, and were missing half of their grenades. It still took over 5 min for me to get that golden moment, twice, where a CC chain stripped everything and enough damage landed to down the engi. This is a great example of something you should dominate - you are not pressured enough so you can strip/steal and maul a spec that relies on boons to stay alive. But that spec is given tools to evade you (imagine that) and if played by someone capable you will lose 9 out of 10 times.

So yeah. Stealing boons is very powerful. But letting you steal 3 boons every 6 seconds (if your target doesn't dodge breaching strike for whatever reason, and for whatever reason you have the adrenaline to keep chaining dagger burst) will do next to nothing for war. It also does nothing for the rest of war, aside from that 1 spb build (which you are pigeon-holed into enough already).

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Your call. Bit it's non cc boon rip which you were just complaining about.

2 boons every 15 seconds and you must sacrifice bulls charge or endure pain? Not enough for me.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Vancho.8750]

6 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

You know what the dumb part is? After people complained about Pain Absorb, Anet put Resolution on it! Meanwhile Warrior mains were going like "BRUH ANET HOW BOUT US?" and you know what they did? They put Resolution on Shield Blocking.

Bruh.

See the problem is that if they wanted to something, they could have sat down for an hour decided " I want to make 3 builds for pvp on warrior on all specs that play differently" buffed a few numbers here and there change some boons here and there, warrior could be serviceable and since warrior is so kittening simple a little change helps allot. For example Antitoxin runes cleanse one extra condi when you cleanse makes a huge difference one trait like that in defense would make it good, trooper/soldier runes when you shout you cleanse conditions makes a big difference.
The issue is there are not doing even that, they are not playing warrior at all ,they do not care,  you can guess just by looking how they kitten out Bladesworn. 

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Just roll Cele Renegade and have it all.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

5 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

But Warrior already has plenty of Resistance from utility skills, they seriously lack the Condi damage reduction. 
Or we can have Revenge Counter instead of dealing 20% more Full Counter damage, grant Barrier + additional Barrier per enemy hit. 

At least Barrier is a form of additional health that could help stave off condi damage. 

Actually, I think warrior needs loads more of resistance (esp now that it's been nerfed to only non-damaging condis), especially from traits. Feather foot grace is limited to SpB; Berserker stance has a ridiculously long CD for what it does. In both cases, you're giving up endure pain, shake it off, or bulls charge to take one of those skills--just not a good trade.

 

I would really like to see Cleansing Ire give 1s resistance per bar adrenaline spent in addition to its current effects. Also, dogged march should give resistance instead of Regen. These two changes would add a lot of value to Defense while providing counterplay to the weakness/blind/chill/immob spam that shuts warrior down.