Getting top score on your team should give you equivalent of a win for achievs

[Einsof.1457]

Just because my whole team constantly quits a match when they are losing, doesn't mean that I should be punished. Further, being on the winning side and then being forced to move to the losing side mid-game is complete and utter crap. going on 8 losses in a row. 7 of which i was top scorer for my side. I love you, anet. But this design is trash. 

[Shayne Hawke.9160]

The common element to your losing streak is you.  You should seek to address that first.  "top scorer" for a losing team could also mean something like 5-10 points, depending on how badly your team is getting stomped, which is a pretty awful result and doesn't seem worth rewarding in itself when I'm constantly raking in 14-21 points on my wins.

[draxynnic.3719]

If the player is winning and then gets shifted to the losing side by an autorebalance, it's not exactly their fault, and possibly the most frustrating thing imaginable if you're chasing wins for an achievement.

 

Presuming we're talking about Dragon Ball here, I haven't played it since the first year because of how snowbally it was - the experience on the losing side was usually so bad I can't blame people for quitting (kind of like an oldschool FPS when the enemy team has all the best weapons and armour and so on and your team is trying to somehow get back into the game with pistols). In that context, I'm not sure that getting half the points of someone on the winning side is actually that poor a showing for someone on the losing side.

 

The bigger problem I can see is it encouraging 'I'm competing with my own team, not the enemy' mentality.

[Shayne Hawke.9160]

On 2/5/2022 at 11:17 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

If the player is winning and then gets shifted to the losing side by an autorebalance, it's not exactly their fault, and possibly the most frustrating thing imaginable if you're chasing wins for an achievement.

If someone is losing eight games in a row with seven of them as top scorer, I have to believe that their wins aren't their doing either.

On 2/5/2022 at 11:17 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

I haven't played it since the first year

This is certainly a sign of someone whose feedback should be listened to. 🙄

The problem is that "the autobalance system is broken and should be fixed" is something that people have noticed and put forward since not long after the game's release, so you're putting forward ideas that are now almost ten years old and not implemented.  This also speaks nothing to the details of the format and the incentive structures that cause snowball matches.  If you're going to come up with ideas to fix the problems, at least have an idea of what the problems actually are and come up with some answers that haven't been bounced around for a near decade.  Don't worry about putting forward bad ideas either - nothing is being done about these modes anyways.

Nor will any of your suggestions help OP because they are trying to illustrate a situation in which they're the victim of a bad system when they are really just a victim of their own inability to make wins.

[draxynnic.3719]

1 hour ago, Shayne Hawke.9160 said:

If someone is losing eight games in a row with seven of them as top scorer, I have to believe that their wins aren't their doing either.

Speaking as someone who DOES play sPvP regularly... sometimes the matchmaker just hates you. If you're soloqueueing and not one of the top players and/or gaming the queue, a high proportion of matches were essentially decided by the matchmaker before you even begin, since there's only so much you can carry if your team is just bad compared to the opposition. A player who's above or below what the matchmaker thinks they are will generally rise or fall through the matches that were close enough that they could swing the match, but a certain proportion are pretty much always decided by the matchup, and sometimes streaks happen. (Which only compounds the problem, because those streaks create accounts that the matchmaker thinks are playing better or worse than they actually are just because they had an (un)lucky streak.

This happens especially if you're chasing wins, and keep queueing at the same time against the same pool of players (a trap that I learned not to fall into years ago, but in sPvP you only need one win to get the daily and a finite number of wins for the season achievement, there isn't an infinitely repeatable reward that requires 10 wins...)

Quote

This is certainly a sign of someone whose feedback should be listened to. 🙄

First, a good company should still pay attention to the reasons people give for not playing a particular game mode, so they can address the quit factors. Now, in this case, they probably don't care much about an activity in a holiday event that's only available for a few weeks and where players who don't enjoy it can just... do other things for the event. Nobody's going to quit the game over Dragon Ball, after all. Still, adjusting the reward structure might encourage people to give it another go at least.

Second, has the format changed significantly? Not according to what I could see on the wiki. Therefore, I think my observation that it's highly snowbally still applies. Which, in turn, probably explains why the losing team often has leavers - if it becomes obvious early in a match who's going to win and the rewards are overwhelmingly tied towards winning, there's not a lot of point in staying on the losing team. 

Which is going to compound the problem, since if most of the losing team quits and an autorebalance happens, that means close to half of the winning team are going to get autobalanced out of their win, and as few as a quarter of the players who joined the match will actually get a win.

Quote

The problem is that "the autobalance system is broken and should be fixed" is something that people have noticed and put forward since not long after the game's release, so you're putting forward ideas that are now almost ten years old and not implemented.  This also speaks nothing to the details of the format and the incentive structures that cause snowball matches.  If you're going to come up with ideas to fix the problems, at least have an idea of what the problems actually are and come up with some answers that haven't been bounced around for a near decade.  Don't worry about putting forward bad ideas either - nothing is being done about these modes anyways.

Nor will any of your suggestions help OP because they are trying to illustrate a situation in which they're the victim of a bad system when they are really just a victim of their own inability to make wins.

Well, one idea I considered after my previous post is that players who get autobalanced off a winning team get credited with a win when they get autobalanced off. They've essentially already earned it, after all, they shouldn't be punished for doing well and then having the game switch them to the team they've been dominating. There could then be extra credit, maybe even the equivalent of another win for the purpose of Dragon Ball Champion, for being able to turn around the game after an autobalance.

Edited February 7, 2022 by draxynnic.3719

[Shayne Hawke.9160]

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Speaking as someone who DOES play sPvP regularly... sometimes the matchmaker just hates you.

I have no clue what you're on about here because these are two different systems.  Dragon Ball does not function with rating-based matchmaking.  Just because they have a common element in autobalancing teams does not mean you can talk about both modes like they're the same.  In the case of Dragon Ball, you do not have ten players of roughly similar accumulated/aggregated/weighted ratings facing off against each other.  You have up to ten people that happened to get sifted into the same server to play together, not based on any known measure other than perhaps server availability and connection quality.  You also don't queue to get a new group of ten players next round, but stick with anyone who stayed around from the last match plus whoever decides to drop in or out during the match.  These are important qualities for how the format works, so going on about a format that works in an entirely different way just because it has one similar quality makes no sense.  Perhaps these kinds of key differences are what slip the mind when you don't play a mode for seven years, yet still feel qualified to talk about it.

In my experience, the people who tend to stick around between matches of Dragon Ball fall into two categories: the skilled, and the desperate.  It becomes pretty quickly apparent who has a good head on their shoulders and who doesn't.  If someone is sticking around match after match, and they are facing a losing streak, then rather than blame the matchmaker that does little more than swap two people at random between matches, it's probably because that player is doing something wrong.  Further, if the excuse being made is that autobalance is ripping them off the winning team, I would argue that if they were actually a fundamental asset to the winning side, they should be able to win games after the balance for bringing that asset with them.  If they're instead losing every time, they probably weren't the reason why that side was winning anyways, and their score may only have been on top because they happened to tag knockouts that their other teammates were making happen.

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Well, one idea I considered after my previous post is that players who get autobalanced off a winning team get credited with a win when they get autobalanced off. They've essentially already earned it, after all, they shouldn't be punished for doing well and then having the game switch them to the team they've been dominating. There could then be extra credit, maybe even the equivalent of another win for the purpose of Dragon Ball Champion, for being able to turn around the game after an autobalance.

Volunteering to switch teams used to award glory in even activity modes, but this got removed a long time ago.  It was also suggested long ago to use this system to award credit for wins, which I believe applied to PvP but never was done for activities.  None of this matters though because it misses the point that it's a problem that teams are autobalanced as much as they are.  Rather than address what to do with the people who get balanced, the deeper issue would be to address why balancing needs to happen so much in the first place, and deeper still would be to look at the incentives in place that drive player behavior to cause imbalance in teams.  Better yet is to recognize that ANet won't address these problems anyways, but a choice that can be made by the player is to either get better at what they're doing to where the broken system doesn't affect them as much, or leave it be and find something else to do with your time.

[Blue D Phoenix.7260]

You guys playing dragon ball?

[Gibson.4036]

Its hard for me to imagine this kind of streak of bad luck to be on so many losing teams. I’m pretty bad a dragonball and end up on the winning side of about as many matches as not.