Guild Wars 2: End of Dragons launches on February 28!

[Teratus.2859]

9 hours ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

Honestly, one of the major downsides of most older MMOs is that you have to trudge through hundreds of hours of old content before you even reach the place where everybody has fun.

I don't consider it a downside at all.
In fact most modern MMO's that I have played that allow you the freedom to jump into new content right from the off end up being a complete mess, especially when it comes to story continuity and people not having a clue what they are doing and how to play the game on a level expected of them by other players in the same content, players who have been through all that old content.

If anything I would say the cons of such design absolutely outweigh the pros on this matter and the more convoluted and difficult it is for new players to actually start at the beginning the more annoying it can be as well, ESO in particular really got on my and my wife's nerves when we first started that game and I had to actively look up a guide just to figure out which content we should be playing first and which we should be avoiding.
Very messy game ESO, but still a fun MMO.

Gw2 thankfully avoids a lot of this although not entirely, the dungeon stories are a complete trainwreck when it comes to story continuity and the worst part is the game actively encourages players to do them before the personal story even sets the stage for the dungeon story to play out.
Unless you have prior knowledge of how and when the personal story plays out you will never do the dungeon story modes at the correct time in the timeline when they are supposed to be done, which can leave players ignorant of this very confused about certain events in the game.
Such as celebrating the end of the Charr human War several story missions before you help end that same war.

With Gw2's heavy focus on a persistent ongoing storyline and world too I would never advise to any new players to skip ahead to new content, especially if they are interested in the story.
Even the content itself is so far beyond that of the early game stuff that it is very easy for a new player to play a bunch of HoT or PoF or something and then decide, ok i'll go back and do the story properly only to end up feeling like the older stuff is so bad and dated that they completely loose interest in playing it.
 

9 hours ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

GW2 is great in that it allows you the freedom to choose where, what, and how you play, in a way that none of the similar games I have played over several decades does. It makes it a lot easier for people to mingle, regardless of how much or how little of the game they have played so far, and to have fun together.

Providing they do have fun.. there are times where we see new players complaining that the game is too hard or they don't understand what they are supposed to be doing in events, and times where veteran players are complaining about people not doing certain mechanics and lazing around waiting to be revived instead of waypointing like they are supposed to.

For the most part the game is easy enough that vets can carry a lot of players but this also has the negative side effect in diminishing the challenge of the game for older players, many of which constantly express their desire to see more challenging HoT level open world content being added to the game.
Frankly that never happen again so long as all the new content is designed to be friendly to completely inexperienced new players.
And that extends as well to the single player story which is almost patronisingly easy for the same reasons, even current new story.

We are almost a decade into Gw2 at this point.. and as much as I love seeing new players coming into the game and helping them etc, the fact that new expansion content is still pandering to them at the expense of the vet player is starting to wear thin.
There is so much content in the game for the new players to enjoy and learn in..  the newer content doesn't need to be held back for them and in the long run it doesn't really benefit them either.
When they eventually become experienced players they are going to have the same complaints about the game being too easy and lacking challenge.. and for some of them it will be enough to make them move on to other games.
 

9 hours ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

The game isn't built to force anyone into some kind of perceived "correct" timeline in which to play the content, and acknowledging that in the content design can only improve the game for everyone.

Due to the fact that the game has an established timeline and that every single map is locked to a set place in time I would have to completely disagree with you on this one.
Gw2 is extremely story focused for an MMO so there absolutely is a correct timeline in which to play the content.

But the game absolutely does give you the freedom to skip it if you choose to do so, though I would never personally recommend new players do that.
And just to be clear i'm not arguing for taking that freedom away from them either.
I'm just arguing for the rational option, in that new players jumping into new content without knowing what they are doing should expect to struggle because of that decision.

The older content should be the place they start off, leveling up and learning the fundamental mechanics of the game so that when they get to all the new stuff they will have a good grasp of how to play.
But as I've said many many times in the past this isn't exactly efficient atm due to how outdated a significant amount of the game's old content is.
That is a whole other issue though that I have long complained about and wish to see finally Anet address after End of Dragons.
A lot of old content in Gw2 needs some serious TLC especially the Vanilla game and LWS1.

Edited February 2, 2022 by Teratus.2859

[Danikat.8537]

6 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

I don't consider it a downside at all.
In fact most modern MMO's that I have played that allow you the freedom to jump into new content right from the off end up being a complete mess, especially when it comes to story continuity and people not having a clue what they are doing and how to play the game on a level expected of them by other players in the same content, players who have been through all that old content.

If anything I would say the cons of such design absolutely outweigh the pros on this matter and the more convoluted and difficult it is for new players to actually start at the beginning the more annoying it can be as well, ESO in particular really got on my and my wife's nerves when we first started that game and I had to actively look up a guide just to figure out which content we should be playing first and which we should be avoiding.
Very messy game ESO, but still a fun MMO.

As soon as I read that first paragraph I knew which game you were thinking of.

The problem with ESO isn't so much that it allows players to play the content in any order but that they decided a few years ago (around the time Morrowind was being developed) that there is no timeline or continuity - everything in the game happens within 1 year, all the events of all the maps are occuring simultaneously, even the ones where returning NPCs reference past events and what they've been doing in the time since then. It is messy and confusing but that's more to do with the writing (and decisions that drive it) than the game mechanics.

IMO GW2 hits a good balance. If players care about the story there is a clear order which is laid out for them in the story journal and they just need to follow it through all the different releases. If they don't care about story or continuity they have the choice of 5 maps right from level 2 and once they're a high enough level to survive them they can visit the other maps in any order they like.

I'm very much in the camp of wanting to play the game for the story and therefore wanting to do it all in order, but I appreciate that's not for everyone and a lot of people, particularly people who primarily play MMOs it seems, really don't care about the story and would see having to go through it all (especially on multiple characters) as an unnecessary delay to what they actually want to do.

Also sometimes I've appreciated the ability to take a character into a map they haven't reached yet in the story. On some of mine I don't mind that it breaks their continuity and it's useful because I find certain things easier to do on certain professions.

[Teratus.2859]

6 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

As soon as I read that first paragraph I knew which game you were thinking of.

The problem with ESO isn't so much that it allows players to play the content in any order but that they decided a few years ago (around the time Morrowind was being developed) that there is no timeline or continuity - everything in the game happens within 1 year, all the events of all the maps are occuring simultaneously, even the ones where returning NPCs reference past events and what they've been doing in the time since then. It is messy and confusing but that's more to do with the writing (and decisions that drive it) than the game mechanics.

Writing certainly plays a part, that's true although I think it does impact the mechanics of the game somewhat as well.
Jumping into later added areas of ESO on a new character can give the player a false sense of ability.
General enemies that you find around are easily dispatched by low and high level characters alike but when it comes to the big world events like Dragons and Harrowstorms new players will find themselves getting absolutely destroyed by enemies that will one shot them lol

I quite like that the game does that though and I think this is something GW2 really should embrace as well.
Add in these difficult open world events that even veteran players will find challenging even if it means new players will get obliterated constantly trying to participate in them.
But still allow new players to be carried through them albeit understanding by the end that they are not really ready for this level of content yet, giving them something to really look forward to and work at as well.

I don't think that is a bad thing overall and imo the game in the long run will be better for it as well.

6 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

IMO GW2 hits a good balance. If players care about the story there is a clear order which is laid out for them in the story journal and they just need to follow it through all the different releases. If they don't care about story or continuity they have the choice of 5 maps right from level 2 and once they're a high enough level to survive them they can visit the other maps in any order they like.

Yes this is something I am very glad Gw2 does pretty well although as mentioned with LWS1 and Dungeon content there are some serious story issues there which I am fiercely in support of Anet going back and fixing lol

But even putting the story aside there is still a very big problem with the early game content not efficiently teaching players how to actually play the game properly.
There are so many examples and stories of players getting to a point in the story (usually HoT) where they just cannot handle the content because they lack even basic skills like knowing how to dodge, or how to make use of weapon swaps, or how to use combo attacks, access boons or adjust their builds to adapt to a enemy they are having trouble with etc.

A big part of why this happens is because the core game is so patronisingly easy you never actually need to use those mechanics and that is a huge problem if you ask me.
Especially when those players get to group content because they can be so easily carried through dungeons and fractals that by the time they get to raids and strikes where these basic skills are essential they are so used to playing this way it's become force of habit which is really hard to break.

I've had my fair share of arguments with raiders in the past and I stand by pretty much everything i've said in those arguments but I do agree with them that there is a point where you can say people don't know how to play the game, although I do disagree on where that point actually is and I do blame the game for it's failure to teach people properly as a massive contributor to that which is one of the big reasons why I want Anet to go back and improve the older content as well, especially the Vanilla game areas.

Seeing that End of Dragon is going to have areas where you can learn about breakbars and possibly combo fields etc is really good and I applaud Anet for finally doing stuff like that.
Although placing it in the 3rd expansion of the game.. seriously lol Talk about late XD
All of that stuff should also be added to the core world maps as well especially the early game areas where players should be learning this stuff.
 

6 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

I'm very much in the camp of wanting to play the game for the story and therefore wanting to do it all in order, but I appreciate that's not for everyone and a lot of people, particularly people who primarily play MMOs it seems, really don't care about the story and would see having to go through it all (especially on multiple characters) as an unnecessary delay to what they actually want to do.

Yeah I agree which is why I don't want to take away that freedom.
I just don't want that freedom to impact and potentially hold back future game design and open world difficulty.
I believe we can have both just like in ESO but it will mean that a least a chunk of new open world and story content must focus more on the experienced long time players rather than being too newbie friendly.

6 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

Also sometimes I've appreciated the ability to take a character into a map they haven't reached yet in the story. On some of mine I don't mind that it breaks their continuity and it's useful because I find certain things easier to do on certain professions.

I do the same thing as well at times although we are both experienced players so it's not quite the same as a new player using a lvl 80 booster on a class they have no idea how to play and jumping into current content lol.

It is a good way to test builds out as well which is the main reason I do it.
But that again is a problem with the original maps simply failing to provide adequate challenge.
The fact that you can make a junk build with poorly optimised stats and play it horrendously badly and still beat the entire core game without dodging is a problem lol

 

[Eli Fereta.5970]

On 2/1/2022 at 8:39 AM, Soul SilverRose.6351 said:

A Monday? You went with a Monday to launch an expansion? Yikes...

makes sense to me.

[Eli Fereta.5970]

I am soooo HYPED. The trailers look sooo great and all those people who were so pessimistic can finally s t f u. This look soooo good ahhhhhhhh. I can't forking wait. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Eli Fereta.5970
cuz yall changed my bad words to kittin hhahaha

[Alin.2468]

February 28th 2022, after so much delay. It was to be expected. I guess I will skip playing first 3 days. It's going to be patches, crashes, bugs, and rollbacks. All old-timers know it, because we've been through this before, twice.

February 28th... what an expected bombshell!

Edited February 3, 2022 by Alin.2468

[Ashantara.8731]

On 2/2/2022 at 5:09 PM, Hybarf Tics.2048 said:

A great trailer it is also i can't wait for the next one on Feb 4th. 🤑

I am looking forward to tomorrow's live stream, though there is no telling whether they will spoil any parts of the city beyond what we have already seen in the latest trailer.

On 2/1/2022 at 6:07 PM, Endless Soul.5178 said:

And did anyone notice Taimi's jade legs?

No, I totally missed that and had to go back and watch it again - thanks for the heads-up. 🙂

Not surprising, though - we've anticipated her taking the Blish route ever since that conversation onboard the air vessel in the "A Bug in the System" finale, haven't we? (Though I'm not sure that jade tech support can actually cure her degenerative illness.)

Edited February 3, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[Ashantara.8731]

On 2/1/2022 at 8:33 PM, Bristingr.5034 said:

Not sure why Anet is trying to act like this launch HAS to happen in February.

I think you can rest assured - they have been in the business for a while and certainly know what they are doing. 😉 

[Raizel.1839]

LET'S GOOO!!!

[Rasimir.6239]

9 hours ago, Alin.2468 said:

February 28th 2022, after so much delay. It was to be expected. I guess I will skip playing first 3 days. It's going to be patches, crashes, bugs, and rollbacks. All old-timers know it, because we've been through this before, twice.

As far as I'm aware, this game has only had one rollback in 9 years, and that was nowhere related to any expansion release.

[Mik.3401]

Monday is great.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Mik.3401

[Danikat.8537]

12 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Not surprising, though - we've anticipated her taking the Blish route ever since that conversation onboard the air vessel in the "A Bug in the System" finale, haven't we? (Though I'm not sure that jade tech support can actually cure her degenerative illness.)

I'm not sure this is a cure exactly, more of a replacement, like prosthetic limbs in real life. I get the impression Taimi isn't keen on going as far as Blish did with replacing his entire body, but then she's also said his illness progressed much faster than hers. (Also if I remember correctly he fell in with the Inquest and they've been experimenting with ideas like that for years, so they probably pushed him to try it.) But I could definitely see her going in for replacing limbs that no longer work.

Now I'm curious whether this is something Taimi developed herself (and if so whether jade tech had important benefits over golem tech or other equivalents) or an existing technology in Cantha (and if so what drove them to develop it).
 

4 hours ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

As far as I'm aware, this game has only had one rollback in 9 years, and that was nowhere related to any expansion release.

I don't remember any serious problems either and certainly no roll backs but I've had a look at the patch notes and on 23rd October 2015 (the day HoT was released) there were 5 updates which mention fixing a client or server crash or something blocking progress, and another 6 over the next 5 days. Path of Fire was similar.

Of course not all those crashes will affect everyone (especially the client crashes - those only affect the person who triggers it) and importantly the game doesn't have to go offline for updates so we can keep playing while Anet is fixing things, but I am expecting a lot of "New build available, your game will restart in X hours Y minutes" in the first week.

[Kaliwenda.3428]

5 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

I'm not sure this is a cure exactly, more of a replacement, like prosthetic limbs in real life. I get the impression Taimi isn't keen on going as far as Blish did with replacing his entire body, but then she's also said his illness progressed much faster than hers. (Also if I remember correctly he fell in with the Inquest and they've been experimenting with ideas like that for years, so they probably pushed him to try it.) But I could definitely see her going in for replacing limbs that no longer work.

Now I'm curious whether this is something Taimi developed herself (and if so whether jade tech had important benefits over golem tech or other equivalents) or an existing technology in Cantha (and if so what drove them to develop it).
 

I don't remember any serious problems either and certainly no roll backs but I've had a look at the patch notes and on 23rd October 2015 (the day HoT was released) there were 5 updates which mention fixing a client or server crash or something blocking progress, and another 6 over the next 5 days. Path of Fire was similar.

Of course not all those crashes will affect everyone (especially the client crashes - those only affect the person who triggers it) and importantly the game doesn't have to go offline for updates so we can keep playing while Anet is fixing things, but I am expecting a lot of "New build available, your game will restart in X hours Y minutes" in the first week.

My first thought on seeing Taimi's jade tech legs was that they were given to her as a good-will gesture by someone trying to get on her good side.  And that it will backfire somehow putting her in danger. (Gorrick and his bugs to the rescue!)

I expect a lot of patches the first few days too. 

Edited February 4, 2022 by Kaliwenda.3428

[Donari.5237]

The jade legs look more like braces to me than full limb replacements.  This could just be due to modeling constraints, of course, but they really looked like boots, not prosthetics, as far as I could discern.

[Valisha.8650]

When will we finally have beta names fixed?

[Linken.6345]

29 minutes ago, SovietVixen.7396 said:

When will we finally have beta names fixed?

close to the expansion after EoD beta I would guess.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

1 hour ago, SovietVixen.7396 said:

When will we finally have beta names fixed?

If it is anything like last time, a few weeks/months after End of Dragon's launch.

[Valisha.8650]

Just now, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

If it is anything like last time, a few weeks/months after End of Dragon's launch.

Few *months*? Now thats just awful.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Now now. I think we all remember HoT had a very rough launch, but when it came down to PoF it had a very smooth one. Reckon they know what they're doing.

[nonna.3296]

so,in this completly new expansion we have : new meta,new mount,new map and about wvw?competitive pvp?fractal?gvg?to me it looks like a living not an expansion...this game the more time passes the more it flattens out....we have been stuck at fractal level 100 about 5 years or more , you have remouve the possibility to join the arenas in party ,the wvw is repetetive as never before....but hey, a new mount and i can fishing...

[Ashantara.8731]

13 hours ago, Giovy.3402 said:

and about wvw?competitive pvp?fractal?gvg?

Expansions have never been about other games modes, they are - first and foremost - PvE content.

You might get WvW and PvP content later that is themed after that expansion, but it is not part of the delivery package of the actual expansion.

[nonna.3296]

9 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Expansions have never been about other games modes, they are - first and foremost - PvE content.

You might get WvW and PvP content later that is themed after that expansion, but it is not part of the delivery package of the actual expansion.

yeah but the pve contets are the same in every expansion, in the sense that it's all stuff already seen...they could develope new fractal levels , expand the dungeons thats are the same since 2008 maybe putting an hard mode like guild wars 1.the could do many interesting things instead of always proposing the same things but in different maps.

[Ashantara.8731]

2 hours ago, Giovy.3402 said:

yeah but the pve contets are the same in every expansion, in the sense that it's all stuff already seen...they could develope new fractal levels , expand the dungeons thats are the same since 2008 maybe putting an hard mode like guild wars 1.the could do many interesting things instead of always proposing the same things but in different maps.

Again, those things have nothing to do with expansions. What you mention are updates that get released independent of expansions.

P.S. GW2 released in 2012, not 2008. 😉

[Blue D Phoenix.7260]

It's posted that launch livestream preshow starts at 15:00UAT, does that mean Eod is released on that time? Or before? Or after? 

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Pre-shows are usually some content creator(s)' stream.  The main program starts at 8am Pacific Time.  Maybe that's when the game releases; maybe it releases later after the Devs have spoken about their contributions. 

Would be kind of odd to do a stream when most people available to watch a stream would be playing the game.  🤷‍♂️