Grenades really needs 1200 range

[Mighty Favazz.1546]

Used to be 1200 base 1500 with Grenadier- I'd like to see Grenadier extend range to 1200. Well, that's not entirely true. I'd like to see it extended to 1500, but I'd settle for 1200.I know they want Engi to be mid-range fighter, and 900 works in PvP, but really can't use them in WvW.

[insanemaniac.2456]

i think a lot of why they reduced the range is because people kept saying things like "you mean i cAn throw a thing farther than i can shoot with a rifle??!" :/

plus mortar was supposed to replaced it

[Toolbox.9375]

I think Grenade Kit being 900 range is okay... What isn't okay is the state of Mortar Kit. The damage is negligible, and that's if you even manage to hit your target with the huge travel time. The only real uses I've found for it are in WvW, tagging enemies in a zerg and pestering arrow cart users on walls using its arc and (unreliable) ability to hit the tops of the walls.

[Adamantium.3682]

Yep, mortar kit certainly doesn't feel elite. That's hard to do on a kit with no cooldown... and I don't really want to institute one but something needs to change on that kit for it to really feel worth an elite slot. It's used mostly by default because the others are even worse for condi builds (PvE)

[Arimas.3492]

@Toolbox.9375 said:I think Grenade Kit being 900 range is okay... What isn't okay is the state of Mortar Kit. The damage is negligible, and that's if you even manage to hit your target with the huge travel time. The only real uses I've found for it are in WvW, tagging enemies in a zerg and pestering arrow cart users on walls using its arc and (unreliable) ability to hit the tops of the walls.

100% this. Mortar kit is not powerful enough. Should have had either the same skills with good power damage as the stationary mortar did or something else. We didn't need more low Condi field spam when they could have easily made grenade skills into the fields. They already have Chill/Poison/Light option on the grenades.

[Oogabooga.3812]

Yeah! Instead of a mortar kit, it should be Minigun kit:

Skill 1 - Fire a stream of bullets at a targetSkill 2 - Spin 360 (or 720) degrees while spraying bullets all around.Skill 3 - Spray a cone of rapid-fire bullets in front of you side to side while rooting you.Skill 4 - Emit steam, blinding nearby foes and creating a water field.Skill 5 - Remote detonation; leave the kit in place; activate again to explode the minigun, knocking back all nearby players, friend or foe.

[Goose.3928]

@Oogabooga.3812 said:Yeah! Instead of a mortar kit, it should be Minigun kit:

Skill 1 - Fire a stream of bullets at a targetSkill 2 - Spin 360 (or 720) degrees while spraying bullets all around.Skill 3 - Spray a cone of rapid-fire bullets in front of you side to side while rooting you.Skill 4 - Emit steam, blinding nearby foes and creating a water field.Skill 5 - Remote detonation; leave the kit in place; activate again to explode the minigun, knocking back all nearby players, friend or foe.

Mini gun kit would be awesome.

[Adamantium.3682]

@Oogabooga.3812 said:Yeah! Instead of a mortar kit, it should be Minigun kit:

Skill 1 - Fire a stream of bullets at a targetSkill 2 - Spin 360 (or 720) degrees while spraying bullets all around.Skill 3 - Spray a cone of rapid-fire bullets in front of you side to side while rooting you.Skill 4 - Emit steam, blinding nearby foes and creating a water field.Skill 5 - Remote detonation; leave the kit in place; activate again to explode the minigun, knocking back all nearby players, friend or foe.

That's actually... pretty good!

I don't know how to balance an elite kit to make it worth an elite slot but feel more powerful than regular kits... I guess that's Anet's problem.

[Mighty Favazz.1546]

@insanemaniac.2456 said:i think a lot of why they reduced the range is because people kept saying things like "you mean i cAn throw a thing farther than i can shoot with a rifle??!" :/

plus mortar was supposed to replaced it

See, that's kind of my point. Where do grenades fit when Mortar is the replacement? 900 is OK, but it doesn't work in WvW.

[coglin.1496]

@Oogabooga.3812 said:Yeah! Instead of a mortar kit, it should be Minigun kit:

Skill 1 - Fire a stream of bullets at a targetSkill 2 - Spin 360 (or 720) degrees while spraying bullets all around.Skill 3 - Spray a cone of rapid-fire bullets in front of you side to side while rooting you.Skill 4 - Emit steam, blinding nearby foes and creating a water field.Skill 5 - Remote detonation; leave the kit in place; activate again to explode the minigun, knocking back all nearby players, friend or foe.

I do not like this idea at all. I have no desire to make mortar kit function like a combination of rifle and EG skills. I enjoy its range and the fields it brings. I find it extremely beneficial for WvW and I hate to see its value destroyed simply to give it skills for PvE that do what the same thing as skills we already have on weapons and kits we already use now.

Besides, isn't this thread about the grenade kit? Why are you trying to derail it into bad elite skill design?

Back on topic. I see no need to extend grenade kit range. I am disappointed though, that they removed the fields from the grenades. I always understood the range change, particularly after mortar kit was changed, but the field removal always struck me as counter-intuitive.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Oogabooga.3812 said:Yeah! Instead of a mortar kit, it should be Minigun kit:

Skill 1 - Fire a stream of bullets at a targetSkill 2 - Spin 360 (or 720) degrees while spraying bullets all around.Skill 3 - Spray a cone of rapid-fire bullets in front of you side to side while rooting you.Skill 4 - Emit steam, blinding nearby foes and creating a water field.Skill 5 - Remote detonation; leave the kit in place; activate again to explode the minigun, knocking back all nearby players, friend or foe.

All. The. Retal.

[Terrahero.9358]

I'd love to have Grenadekit back. However it was sacrificed because it would outshine the Mortar kit rework by a huge margin, which was mostly because the Mortarkit is complete pants and basicly a horribly gimped Grenadekit that we now have to give up an Elite slot for.

If Grenadekit gets its 1500 range again through talents then Mortarkit goes back to being as completely redundant as it was when it wasn't a kit yet. I'd be perfectly okay with that but i doubt anet is.

[Shoyoko.7309]

I agree wholeheartedly with this thread, grenade kit was great before they nerfed the range and made mortar kit as compensation and like all others here, I feel mortar kit really pales in comparison to grenade kit. I hope anet knows that mortar kit is nearly redundant, the only thing that most people use mortar kit for is orbital strike....just for a little extra dps....such a waste of an elite slot.Btw I have played engi since launch and it is annoying that even now I keep automatically targeting more than 900 range away cos I'm so used to 1200 range, does anyone have the same problem XD?

[insanemaniac.2456]

no, there is an extremely useful option to lock range indicator at max range, so I never have to worry about red out of range indicators!

if that's an option you don't know about, then there might be several more waiting for you to turn on too that make the game so much better, check out that window.

[Hock.6740]

btw, is there an option to disable choosing friendly as target?Very often i have my target changed to party member when targeting grenades(So I want an option that i can choose only party/raid members via party/raid ui

[Jerus.4350]

@Shoyoko.7309 said:I agree wholeheartedly with this thread, grenade kit was great before they nerfed the range and made mortar kit as compensation and like all others here, I feel mortar kit really pales in comparison to grenade kit. I hope anet knows that mortar kit is nearly redundant, the only thing that most people use mortar kit for is orbital strike....just for a little extra dps....such a waste of an elite slot.Btw I have played engi since launch and it is annoying that even now I keep automatically targeting more than 900 range away cos I'm so used to 1200 range, does anyone have the same problem XD?

Mortar kit also has a blind and chill field which are useful AE's to have. Then there's a water field for extra healing and when paired with the Alchemy line of traits you get an extra condi clear out of it. But, the main reason for Mortar in WvW is the arcing shot it has. It allows you to hit things no one else can like siege on top of walls.

[Warrost.4895]

@Jerus.4350 said:

@Shoyoko.7309 said:I agree wholeheartedly with this thread, grenade kit was great before they nerfed the range and made mortar kit as compensation and like all others here, I feel mortar kit really pales in comparison to grenade kit. I hope anet knows that mortar kit is nearly redundant, the only thing that most people use mortar kit for is orbital strike....just for a little extra dps....such a waste of an elite slot.Btw I have played engi since launch and it is annoying that even now I keep automatically targeting more than 900 range away cos I'm so used to 1200 range, does anyone have the same problem XD?

Mortar kit also has a blind and chill field which are useful AE's to have. Then there's a water field for extra healing and when paired with the Alchemy line of traits you get an extra condi clear out of it. But, the main reason for Mortar in WvW is the arcing shot it has. It allows you to hit things no one else can like siege on top of walls.

So...niche.

[insanemaniac.2456]

@Hock.6740 said:btw, is there an option to disable choosing friendly as target?Very often i have my target changed to party member when targeting grenades(So I want an option that i can choose only party/raid members via party/raid ui

no, thats unfortunately something you have to be careful of. you might be able to mitigate it a bit by using action camera but in general i tend not to recommend action camera cuz i dont use it and dont like it. but a lot of people love it. its a big negative for me for a lot of other games that dont provide the choice like gw2, like eso or tera.

the thing is, to move your camera you have to click. when you click, you reselect a target if something is highlighted. theres no option to turn that off. but action cam avoids clicking to move the camera. the best way to avoid it without action cam is to try to leave your cursor off of any targets, which can potentially be hard.

changing ground targeting to fast with range indicator could also help some if you normally leave it on normal and click to confirm your ground targets.

[Orion Templar.4589]

Longer range on grenades would be nice, but I think higher on the priority list is making skill #1 auto-attack at foe location without targeting. My hand gets sore just thinking about using grenade kit the way it is now. (Skills #2 through #5 should stay targeted.)

[Arimas.3492]

@"Orion Templar.4589" said:Longer range on grenades would be nice, but I think higher on the priority list is making skill #1 auto-attack at foe location without targeting. My hand gets sore just thinking about using grenade kit the way it is now. (Skills #2 through #5 should stay targeted.)

I see a lot of people wanting the grenades to auto target the enemy but this would be a change for the worse. Best thing about grenades is you can lead targets and change target area constantly without changing targets. If it was changed to be auto targeted they would have to increase the velocity by another 100%+ because in PvP or WvW they would never hit anything.

People also cite underwater where it works "fine" but even there

1. not all the nades hit
2. they can easily be avoided by moving perpendicular to the engi throwing them
3. its also a 3D space underwater so ground targeting isn't even an option.