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How to fix every problem in wvw


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Remove the target cap on certain skills. Meteor shower, churning earth, barrage, winds of disenchantment, time warp, jade winds... around 1-2 high impact skills per class is all you need.

What would this accomplish? Boonball meta would instantly end since small organized groups could pick them apart with zergbusting comps. Population imbalance would be far less punishing to low pop servers, they would actually have something meaningful to do if an enemy blob was roaming around. Classes other than necro, guard, rev would become useful in large scale fights. Large scale wvw would become much more skill based instead of just being a numbers game.

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But then lag would be a problem again, so not really fixing "every" problem in wvw.¬†ūü§≠

Certain strip skills were cap nerfed too much to swing the balance over to boon spam, they need to be un-nerfed, won't happen.

Remember at the beginning of PoF groups were loading up with like 15 scourges? I wonder why... The strip skills were then constantly nerfed, purity of purpose was introduced, universal damage nerf... boon balls restored.

Also considering superspeed is near spammable with up to 10s duration, makes it quite easy for boon balls to run straight through or get away from the gunk on the ground, long duration aoes are less effective these days on those groups. Can't wait to see alacrity spam added to the rotations, should make all of the above more "fun".

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Before mounts I would do obnoxious stuff like dropping temporal curtain in front of zergs. Or those necro players in EotM doing the fear wall trick. Its amazing what a single player can do with no target limit skills. I suspect thats why people want projectile reflect fields to be on some sort of counter so a single player is much less effective.

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On 2/6/2022 at 1:18 PM, Xenesis.6389 said:

But then lag would be a problem again, so not really fixing "every" problem in wvw.¬†ūü§≠

Certain strip skills were cap nerfed too much to swing the balance over to boon spam, they need to be un-nerfed, won't happen.

Remember at the beginning of PoF groups were loading up with like 15 scourges? I wonder why... The strip skills were then constantly nerfed, purity of purpose was introduced, universal damage nerf... boon balls restored.

Also considering superspeed is near spammable with up to 10s duration, makes it quite easy for boon balls to run straight through or get away from the gunk on the ground, long duration aoes are less effective these days on those groups. Can't wait to see alacrity spam added to the rotations, should make all of the above more "fun".

 

I am trying to remember though have we done a limited skill set test? Or has it been all or nothing over time? If it was limited to certain skills per class...maybe. Other option I am going to stick to since it would also limit size imbalance is collision. Playing some New World while GW2ing and collision does impact things like boon balls.

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But wouldnt the 50 groups also receive a buff with it!?   It would just scale the overall damage up a TON.

Suddenly the 50 groundfields from the zerg can hit ALL of the enemys from the 15 man group... This goes both ways or am i just straight up dumb? xD 

Yes Zergbustercombs could potentialy work... But i bet all my money the 50 man zerg would just put damagefields under them and all of the enemys would wipe in an instant...   because every skill is hitting everybody of that 15 man group aswel.... The damage of the 50 man group will still be far superior! Amirite'?

Another question! Would Boons receive the same treatment? can 1 single guard give stabi to the whole Zerg now? 

Edited by Sahne.6950
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9 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

I am trying to remember though have we done a limited skill set test? Or has it been all or nothing over time? If it was limited to certain skills per class...maybe.

Not sure what you're asking here in response to my post, care to explain more?

 

Quote

 

Other option I am going to stick to since it would also limit size imbalance is collision. Playing some New World while GW2ing and collision does impact things like boon balls.

 

Collision would make a huge difference, but it probably wouldn't work well with gw2 which was made without that in mind. Does New world have a lot of aoes? I ask because It works well in games like Warhammer, which wasn't made with a lot of aoes, had a damage and healing system that was more single target based. With gw2 which is loaded with aoes, getting body blocked in a spot could mean instant death.

 

There is limited collision in the game if enabled, melee assist, but it's just for enemies, maybe they could enable it for friendlies. Could be interesting to test it at least.

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26 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

With gw2 which is loaded with aoes, getting body blocked in a spot could mean instant death.

Thank you for pointing out the obvious problem that none of those wanting collision could possibly want to happen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ūüėź

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5 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

But wouldnt the 50 groups also receive a buff with it!?   It would just scale the overall damage up a TON.

Suddenly the 50 groundfields from the zerg can hit ALL of the enemys from the 15 man group... This goes both ways or am i just straight up dumb? xD 

Yes Zergbustercombs could potentialy work... But i bet all my money the 50 man zerg would just put damagefields under them and all of the enemys would wipe in an instant...   because every skill is hitting everybody of that 15 man group aswel.... The damage of the 50 man group will still be far superior! Amirite'?

Another question! Would Boons receive the same treatment? can 1 single guard give stabi to the whole Zerg now? 

People seem to forget the start of PoF. Scourge shades had increased target cap and groups ran 30+ scourges in 50. Firebrand had 10 man stab along with all the other 10 man skills they removed. 

People that ask for this don't really understand what they are asking for and refuse to consider the rest of the game mode. 

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Unfortunately, I am at this point 100% convinced that ANet wants zerging to be as safe and effective as possible. They're going to keep moving away from clouds and zerg busters because they don't want people to feel like numbers aren't the answer to everything.

I genuinely do appreciate and enjoy zerging. It's social, it gives that real "MMO" feel, and it's often relaxing. But ANet's obsession with making it the singular way to play WvW with all other ways being not only inferior, but significantly harder, is not helping the community in the way they might think it is.

The biggest issue is time zones. When zerging is the only real way to do anything, imbalances in population and activity become a lot more apparent.
Supposedly Alliances will fix this, but if that is truly the case, it just means they can further indulge in the blobbing is the answer to everything mantra and any strategy outside of that will be gone.

Maybe I'm overreacting though, I don't know. I just feel that pushing a blob meta too hard makes WvW boring because you only need 1 person per side (Commander) to do the thinking for 80+ people.

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1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Thank you for pointing out the obvious problem that none of those wanting collision could possibly want to happen.

ūüėź

Still padding your post count I see.¬†ūüôĄ¬†Often wonder if you have more posts than wxp ranks.

How about we just skip the collision debate and head straight back to the one shots debate then?

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1 hour ago, Shroud.2307 said:

Unfortunately, I am at this point 100% convinced that ANet wants zerging to be as safe and effective as possible. They're going to keep moving away from clouds and zerg busters because they don't want people to feel like numbers aren't the answer to everything.

Honestly, I think they just gave up during PoF and made kneejerk nerfs to spend minimal time on the mode. Removing damage from ALL CC skills was dumb af and lazy. Not using 10 man skills to balance WvW imo is a mistake. Though, I actually wouldn't have had a problem with the huge coefficient nerf if there were follow up patches. 

Memes aside, no one likes this meta. If they say they do, I doubt they would if they experienced others. 

Edited by Zikory.6871
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3 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Not sure what you're asking here in response to my post, care to explain more?

 

Collision would make a huge difference, but it probably wouldn't work well with gw2 which was made without that in mind. Does New world have a lot of aoes? I ask because It works well in games like Warhammer, which wasn't made with a lot of aoes, had a damage and healing system that was more single target based. With gw2 which is loaded with aoes, getting body blocked in a spot could mean instant death.

 

There is limited collision in the game if enabled, melee assist, but it's just for enemies, maybe they could enable it for friendlies. Could be interesting to test it at least.

 

Sorry what I was trying to remember if we had tested just a limited of number of skills that had no caps or if at the time it was testing all skills either had caps or did not. I think most of the testing had been all or nothing. Not a big deal, just wasn't remembering at the time.

 

New World has limited amount of abilities with AoEs that we are used to. You can be stun locked and then melted if you aren't careful in your positioning. Its also a valid tactic to just pin down people with body blocks. But it also allows a smaller group to use terrain and positioning to hold back a larger one like Warhammer would allow. Don't get me wrong can be frustrating when it happens but it works in the playstyle and people can't use the boonball tactic as much since you could end up getting yourself blocked in. Keeps the fights more of rolling events versus people just standing inside each other like we see in WvW if they run a tight group.

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8 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

But wouldnt the 50 groups also receive a buff with it!?   It would just scale the overall damage up a TON.

Suddenly the 50 groundfields from the zerg can hit ALL of the enemys from the 15 man group... This goes both ways or am i just straight up dumb? xD 

Yes Zergbustercombs could potentialy work... But i bet all my money the 50 man zerg would just put damagefields under them and all of the enemys would wipe in an instant...   because every skill is hitting everybody of that 15 man group aswel.... The damage of the 50 man group will still be far superior! Amirite'?

Another question! Would Boons receive the same treatment? can 1 single guard give stabi to the whole Zerg now? 

It is true that blobs could output more damage, but in most cases 50 person zergs arent organized enough to prevent small groups from stealthing up to them. The basic idea is this right now:

15 people attack 50 -> ineffective
50 people attack 15 -> effective

With target cap changes:

15 people attack 50 -> effective
50 people attack 15 -> effective

And no, i think support skills are fine the way they are now.

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1 hour ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Sorry what I was trying to remember if we had tested just a limited of number of skills that had no caps or if at the time it was testing all skills either had caps or did not. I think most of the testing had been all or nothing. Not a big deal, just wasn't remembering at the time.

Oh, I think early in the game like the first few months there was either no caps or 10 cap, then like nov 2012 they changed it. I think they reduced it to 5 to help with the lag? There's a big fat thread asking about it, I was on a break during that time.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Please-Explain-the-Logic-of-the-AoE-Limit/page/1

 

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4 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Still padding your post count I see.¬†ūüôĄ¬†Often wonder if you have more posts than wxp ranks.

How about we just skip the collision debate and head straight back to the one shots debate then?

Its true, how else can I maintain a higher post count than hours played? Lagging behind in wxp though. I never caught the obsidian train.

Either way most arguments about the AoE cap is pretty pointless because people keep ignoring that its not really the outgoing damage thats the problem, its the incoming damage. 

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