An idea for nerfing core Shroud

[grx.8714]

I already said this multiple times, gives Shroud the same treatment of Celestial Avatar, make it 20 seconds cooldown.

 

Also make Shroud Health Bar 50% of what is it now.

 

Problem solved.

 

Necro will be still used because there isn't another team fighter with that area denial and range and pressure.

 

Also It will give space for the new eod spec as well, because if things remain the same, there is no point of not running the same braindead core necro over every other spec.

 

This is true for all the EoD specs, but yeah, don't wanna go off-topic.

[Bale.3851]

2 hours ago, grx.8714 said:

I already said this multiple times, gives Shroud the same treatment of Celestial Avatar, make it 20 seconds cooldown.

Yeah ! But why stop at 20 sec?? Make it 1 min CD cause its super op and not the game mechanic of this class. Necro will still be used and there isnt another teamfighter with that arena denial and range pressure.....

 

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[redlinux.3920]

rangers and necromancers urgently need a nerf💀

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 hours ago, Zero.3871 said:

idk why people still, after all that years are so biased when it comes to necro.

in pve core necro cant be OP since dps is low.

in wvw core necro isnt part of ANY group play. so its only useful in solo roaming where it is lacking mobility and stability to be really good.

in pvp because this mode has lower stats it can be annoyingly tanky. but core necro got already separate nerfs to sustain in that gamemode to balance this out when i remember correctly.

but comments like this just show that some people dont talk about balancing. its just they want somethin getting trashed they dont like:

calling someone trash lvl just because he has a different opinion disqualifies for every discussion. if you would try to stay rational you would easily see, that druids have lots of block, invis, dodge mechanics next to CA. while necros only defense is his shroud. so comparing 2 mechanics with different meanings to the classes overall capability to sustain dmg is nuts.

in general you cant say, class A has this, so why Class B has a better version of the same thing. because if every class has the exact same thing the other classes have, it wouldnt be different classes. thats called class designs. and the designs have different focuses. 

you cant just miss out everything and 1 to 1 compare 2 spells or mechanics.

the same way you could say thief is more mobile then nec, so just nerf thief. this way to think makes no sense at all.

here next one, you miss out the context of the 2020 feb balance change. in the one-shot meta before the changes on that day were made, necro sustain was close to non existend. as reaper that days i could have nearly full shroud AND full hp and rangers still could one shot me with MAUL (GS2) with 50k dmg hits out of invis.

shroud sustain was non exitend before the patch, so it is just logical that anet didnt nerfed something that was weak before the patch. you now could argue the sustain is still too high afterwards BUT again, if you watch the class as a whole:

core necro dps is low, you need a lot of time to ramp up dmg as condi. no stability to counter cc, no invis, invulns, blocks. just a barrier-like mechanic to survive. if necro would have different sustain mechanics i would agree shroud sustain is too high. but there is not.

and since i mostly play wvw and can say especially for wvw. there are boon beasts, nade engis, fire weaver builds or celestial renegade builds that are even tanky, have more utility and more mobility and good dmg. there are a lot strong builds out there. i dont call for nerfs, i just say: the classes are all at the same lvl strong. so there is no need for nerfs on any of them.

since every of these builds are strong against something and weak vs something else.

you all should invest your time in learning how to fight different mechanics instead of going the easy way and hoping anet trashed builds you dont like.

Okay. I was melting rangers with my reaper prior to feb 2020, everyone melted everyone. That still does not mean that shroud sustain is not too high for this meta though.

[Zero.3871]

5 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Okay. I was melting rangers with my reaper prior to feb 2020, everyone melted everyone. That still does not mean that shroud sustain is not too high for this meta though.

but the meta currently is sustain focussed. eles, revs, engis, mesmers,... all classes have super sustain builds viable in this meta. i guess you just want a meta change. but that is probably comming with eod anyway.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

23 minutes ago, Zero.3871 said:

but the meta currently is sustain focussed. eles, revs, engis, mesmers,... all classes have super sustain builds viable in this meta. i guess you just want a meta change. but that is probably comming with eod anyway.

Meta is a year overdue for a change. Eles and engis that don't want to die, don't die sure. Can't really say the same for Power Rev. Mesmer has that stupid signet build that is a pain, but this is about Necro not them.

[FarmBotXD.1430]

On 2/11/2022 at 12:24 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Some people can't fathom that other players play multiple classes.

The problems with necro are entirely due to the Feb2020 balance reducing damage almost across the board, but leaving necros with a second health bar that comes with 50% damage reduction. Several people pointed out that this would happen when they released the prepatch notes, and it is still true to this day.

I would argue that most of the classes sustain, be it evasion, healing, barriers and boons got nerfed.
while shroud remained the same and thus got stronger compared to all other classes, and thus we have 5+ necro a game clown fiesta with kitten like minion mancer being a meta spec and random generated necro builds being stronger then most tryhard builds 😄

[Morde.3158]

On 2/12/2022 at 3:54 PM, grx.8714 said:

I already said this multiple times, gives Shroud the same treatment of Celestial Avatar, make it 20 seconds cooldown.

why would anet do that? You telling me that necro should have a 20s cd on its core mechanic. druid is an elite spec its not apart of the original game druids dont actually need it to be  a ranger.

[grx.8714]

1 hour ago, Morde.3158 said:

why would anet do that? You telling me that necro should have a 20s cd on its core mechanic. druid is an elite spec its not apart of the original game druids dont actually need it to be  a ranger.

Why not? What core engi has as core mechanic? An useless f5, what core mesmer has? What core rev has? Nothing useful.

You get a second extra hp bar with 50% dmg reduced, cc, reveal, life steal, condi spam and even a gap closer. A nerf to it is so needed. Let's hope the blood magic nerfs are enough.

[dceptaconroy.7928]

Leave core alone. Wait for the mess that is Harbinger, that'll be even easier to deal with. Every necro elite is beatable by anyone with base knowledge of the spec.

[Obtena.7952]

LOL ... are people still hot on nerfing core shroud with the Feb 28 incoming changes? 

[jpsssss.7530]

Ok nerf shroud... now necro can have invulns, blocks and evades. Every other class has more than one defensive skill in the form of on-command block, invuln or evade. Necro doesnt because it has shroud. I think almost everyone (including the guy who decided harbinger would lose health AND get no defense from shroud) forgets that design ideology. Core necro has non of the mentioned skills and harbinger has 1 evade (but its such a clunky skill it shouldn't even count).

[The Boz.2038]

2 hours ago, jpsssss.7530 said:

(including the guy who decided harbinger would lose health AND get no defense from shroud)

I still chuckle at the "but shroud heals the harbinger by the mechanic of giving back the health it ate before" comments sometimes.

Edited February 23, 2022 by The Boz.2038

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

On 2/23/2022 at 8:15 AM, jpsssss.7530 said:

Ok nerf shroud... now necro can have invulns, blocks and evades. Every other class has more than one defensive skill in the form of on-command block, invuln or evade. Necro doesnt because it has shroud. I think almost everyone (including the guy who decided harbinger would lose health AND get no defense from shroud) forgets that design ideology. Core necro has non of the mentioned skills and harbinger has 1 evade (but its such a clunky skill it shouldn't even count).

The beauty about evades, blocks and invulns, though, is that you actually have to time them and they're a moment of weakness thanks to non-cancellable aftercasts and whatnot. 

Necromancer shares the same fundamental problem as warrior does in that its design is outdated and fundamentally flawed in modern GW2, and would have to redesigned to an extent.

Otherwise you're left with a bloated mess for class that's either notoriously too weak or too oppressive, never anywhere near between. This obviously wasn't as much of an issue when competitive was more high risk/reward.

Necromancer who say they should be farmed by ranged classes are actually just bad at the game, really. Like, really bad. You can often tell how Anet prioritizes between casuals and veterans based on the state necromancer is in.

They should really target the amount of passive sustain necromancer has, but should not have due to shroud. I do not think Shroud's cooldown should be increased, but the amount of effort it takes to regen it and their actual health should be targeted.
This would allow a power shift elsewhere, as well; and I think that would be fair, too.

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by NorthernRedStar.3054

[XECOR.2814]

10 hours ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

The beauty about evades, blocks and invulns, though, is that you actually have to time them and they're a moment of weakness thanks to non-cancellable aftercasts and whatnot. 

Necromancer shares the same fundamental problem as warrior does in that its design is outdated and fundamentally flawed in modern GW2, and would have to redesigned to an extent.

Otherwise you're left with a bloated mess for class that's either notoriously too weak or too oppressive, never anywhere near between. This obviously wasn't as much of an issue when competitive was more high risk/reward.

Necromancer who say they should be farmed by ranged classes are actually just bad at the game, really. Like, really bad. You can often tell how Anet prioritizes between casuals and veterans based on the state necromancer is in.

They should really target the amount of passive sustain necromancer has, but should not have due to shroud. I do not think Shroud's cooldown should be increased, but the amount of effort it takes to regen it and their actual health should be targeted.
This would allow a power shift elsewhere, as well; and I think that would be fair, too.

 

You assessment is right but your solution is not. At the moment necro shroud tanks too much damage. The problem is the dmg reduction is too high on shroud for current balance. I think anet knows it too. but the code to change that stuff is a mess and it should be a considerable effort to fix it thus they go with sustain nerf in terms of escape/mobility cd nerf. I am assuming anet knows the real problem and this cd nerfs is just a workaround because im on copium.

The bloodmagic, wurm cd and weakness nerfs just makes other core builds like power(people trying this in pvp btw) much worse. What they needed to do was reduce dmg reduction in shroud from 50 to 40 or 33% or and add a bit qol on weapon skills as tradeoff(there is plenty to do here, warhorn can be a start). This would've created much more active sustain instead of shroud passive sustain wall) and allowed more builds to flourish.

Edited February 25, 2022 by XECOR.2814

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

12 hours ago, XECOR.2814 said:

You assessment is right but your solution is not. At the moment necro shroud tanks too much damage. The problem is the dmg reduction is too high on shroud for current balance. I think anet knows it too. but the code to change that stuff is a mess and it should be a considerable effort to fix it thus they go with sustain nerf in terms of escape/mobility cd nerf. I am assuming anet knows the real problem and this cd nerfs is just a workaround because im on copium.

The bloodmagic, wurm cd and weakness nerfs just makes other core builds like power(people trying this in pvp btw) much worse. What they needed to do was reduce dmg reduction in shroud from 50 to 40 or 33% or and add a bit qol on weapon skills as tradeoff(there is plenty to do here, warhorn can be a start). This would've created much more active sustain instead of shroud passive sustain wall) and allowed more builds to flourish.

Fair, you're probably far better equipped to delve in the details by comparison.

[Redpawa.4108]

Time to revive my post about shroud being inherently unbalanced with/without tank stat investment.

For the love of god just remove the damage reduction effect and allow necro to be healed in shroud. It moves the skill floor and the skill ceiling up while somehow still making it more obvious how to play for newbies.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Redpawa.4108
cut words out?

[jpsssss.7530]

15 hours ago, Redpawa.4108 said:

Time to revive my post about shroud being inherently unbalanced with/without tank stat investment.

For the love of god just remove the damage reduction effect and allow necro to be healed in shroud. It moves the skill floor and the skill ceiling up while somehow still making it more obvious how to play for newbies.

Bro watch harbingers and see what happens without shroud being where it is. As long as any class can do 30k damage in less time than it takes to cast a heal skill your argument is invalid (don't say there isn't one because power chrono can do 50k+ in 1.5s). Necro has shroud BECAUSE it has no invulns, blocks, evades, good mobility (instant cast), or instant cast stab. Your argument will have merit once necro gets AT LEAST one of each.